Author Topic: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?  (Read 1068 times)

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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« on: November 21, 2017, 09:40:13 PM »
Is it part of sexual immorality?

I think it could fit under kidnapping (a form of stealing).


Offline Lisa

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 11:21:05 PM »
Why do you even need to ask such a thing?

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 12:25:20 AM »
I'm not asking if it's permitted. I'm asking what does it fall under? Gilui Arayot is the term for prohibited sexual relations. It refers to relations that would never be permitted, such as homosexuality, incest, or a married woman with another man. Other relations would be permitted but only if the people get married. In the case of Noahides, marriage isn't necessary.

Rape is a violent crime but I don't think it is Gilui Arayot. If the man and woman are eligeble to get married (not close relatives and the woman is single), then it would only be a violent crime, but not having sex with a prohibited partner. I think it would fit under kidnapping which is a capital offense (at least for goyim) since all the Noahide prohibitions are capital crimes even if the same crime is not a capital offense for Jews. It could be forbidden under the prohibition of murder. The whole point of this thread is to learn where the prohibition comes from, not whether rape is permitted for goyim.

The Ten Commandments contains the prohibition of kidnapping (stealing in The Ten Commandments refers to kidnapping people.). Other forms of stealing are forbidden in other places of The Torah.


Online Zelhar

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 10:14:11 AM »
One can argue that it is not part of sexual immorality because it constitutes a much worse offense. This is a violent crime which severely injures the victim.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 12:16:27 PM »
"Why don't you have a seat over there."

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »
It's at least under stealing. That is the reason why when Shechem kidnapped Dina he was Hayav Mitah.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 01:32:13 AM »
What about sexual harassment? That is what led me to post this. See the thread about the judge in Alabama running for Senate.


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2017, 02:19:40 PM »

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 02:56:27 PM »
No. The prohibition of rape is part of the Noahide prohibition of theft. 

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 12:22:16 AM »
Consenting people can have sex that resembles to an extent what this horrible thing can be, and it's perfectly loving and kosher. If it's a married woman, if it's homosexuality, if you kidnapped the person, ok we're talking about other things, but a single man sees a single woman and makes this sin G-d forbid, the sex isn't the crime, it's how it's done.

It's for sure a violation of the 7th Noachide commandment outside of mudrat countries. In a craphole like Kazakhstan or the smaller craphole south of it with a similar name where to marry someone, you kidnap her (https://www.buzzfeed.com/susiearmitage/this-horrifying-viral-video-of-bride-kidnapping-has-spurred?utm_term=.bbXbwj65Q#.ywkMjwZy9). In this case, it's not a violation of the seventh, but clearly you stole that girl's freedom. Now is every time you have sex considered theft, and every second you keep her there if she always wants to go?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 04:14:54 AM »
Consenting people can have sex that resembles to an extent what this horrible thing can be, and it's perfectly loving and kosher. If it's a married woman, if it's homosexuality, if you kidnapped the person, ok we're talking about other things, but a single man sees a single woman and makes this sin G-d forbid, the sex isn't the crime, it's how it's done.

It's for sure a violation of the 7th Noachide commandment outside of mudrat countries. In a craphole like Kazakhstan or the smaller craphole south of it with a similar name where to marry someone, you kidnap her (https://www.buzzfeed.com/susiearmitage/this-horrifying-viral-video-of-bride-kidnapping-has-spurred?utm_term=.bbXbwj65Q#.ywkMjwZy9). In this case, it's not a violation of the seventh, but clearly you stole that girl's freedom. Now is every time you have sex considered theft, and every second you keep her there if she always wants to go?

A Gentile man is permitted within Torah Law to marry off his daughter as a minor to any allowed partner who is fitting in his eyes, and it is thus fitting that a girl's father or the head of the household will be involved with marrying off all the daughters (even as adults) to fitting matches. Nevertheless, it is only fitting to marry off one's daughter, either a minor or an adult, with her knowledge and consent.

It is the custom of certain nations, families or clans that the father of the family, or another relative, decides for the woman to whom she should be married, and they then force her to marry that man, with the woman having no choice to protest against the marriage. This is contemptible and improper. Nevertheless, once this is done and the woman is referred to by all as this man's wife, she is considered fully married, and another man who cohabits with her is liable if she is at least twelve years old.

When it is clear the entire time that she cries and protests against the marriage, it is forbidden for her husband to force her to have relations, and as long as she does not willingly consent to have relations with him, she is not completely married. Nevertheless, if and when she is silent and accepts and does not protest her marriage, even though she did not agree to it at first, then this is sufficient for her to be considered by all as his wife, and to be fully married.

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Re: Is Rape Part of The Noahide Prohibtion of Sexual Immorality?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 12:32:56 AM »
See the Divine Code, p 478: Even if the man is being threatened with death, he is not permitted to physically force the intercourse upon a woman against her will, even if she is not forbidden to him by Torah Law. Even if she is single and not a relative, the man has no permission to do so since it would constitute forceful rape, even if he is being forced to do so with a threat of death if he does not.

Rabbi Zalman Nehemiah Goldberg doubts this ruling (meaning that if a Gentile man is being forced under threat of death to rape a woman, he might possibly be permitted to do so in order to save his life).

In any event, one who is forced to transgress on pain of death is not to be judged or punished by a court of law for committing the forced act (p 402).