Author Topic: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged  (Read 500 times)

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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« on: April 15, 2019, 02:37:08 PM »
King Louis IX burned the Talmud in Paris. The Catholic Church renamed him St. Louis in honor of his burning the Talmud. The most important Catholic church in Paris is now burning.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/When-they-burned-the-Talmud-in-Paris-499313

Did anyone else think about the connection when hearing the news?

Is G-d sending a message? Is the Catholic Church being punished? Is there significance that it's being done during what the Catholic Church calls "holy week"?

Was it a Muslim that started the burning? There was construction. Could it have been affirmative action Muslim workers who were negligent or did it on purpose? I'm sure the terrorists are rejoicing like when the World Trade Center was destroyed. I'm happy that people are okay and that important places in Paris are safe. Catholic churches are idolatry. France has a sepearation of church and state. It's good places like the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe are okay.

Is this part of the fall of Catholic Europe? Let's hope Islam does not take over. I'd rather have Europe saved from the Muslims by Bnei Noah.

If it was done on purpose, I don't condone the terrorists that did it. It may have been an Act of G-d.


Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 03:35:45 PM »
I did not know about the connection. On one hand, it is an obligation to eliminate the worship of idols. On the other hand, it is forbidden to place others in danger or cause a hazard for the community with fire. 

In any event, now is the time for a Noahide Revolution in Europe. With HaShem's help, we will get rid of the Christians and the Muslims.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:21 PM »
If it was not an accident, then it was Muslim on Christian crime. If it was an accident, G-d was behind it. It reminds me of The Destruction of The Temple. Now the Catholics know how it felt when their ancestors (The Romans) destroyed The Temple.

Of course it is wrong from a human to cause violent damage on purpose or to take the law into one's hand. It's up to G-d how to deal with it. If France had a Nohaide government, historic Catholic churches would be decommissioned as churches and made into museums. Once the goyim de-sanctify a place of idolatry, it's no longer a place of idolatry and permitted to visit as an archeological site. Hopefully they will do this to the Notre Dame Cathedral as their are important archeological remains underneath. When I was in Paris, I walked past but didn't enter. Now the building is destroyed, hopefully they will turn the outside into an archeological area with no worries of going into a place of idolatry.


Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 04:04:43 PM »
The actual nullification of a house of idol worship is complicated and I don't have time now for a formal Torah Law analysis. As an ex-Catholic I am sick and tired of churches. 

Offline Ulli

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 07:42:00 AM »
As I saw the fire I thought about the witch Catherine de Medici and St. Bartholomew's Day massacre. But by the way, the burning of Catholic churches during reparations happens there quite often. Just google it.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 10:26:49 AM »
What are reparations?

Offline Ulli

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 10:45:15 AM »
What are reparations?

Sorry I meant repairs.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 01:26:50 PM »
The actual nullification of a house of idol worship is complicated and I don't have time now for a formal Torah Law analysis. As an ex-Catholic I am sick and tired of churches.

What influenced you to become a noahide?
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline nessuno

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 06:45:41 PM »
Notre Dame will be rebuilt and remain a Catholic Church.  Otherwise, it will be turned into a mosque.  It's a shame that you cannot enter and see it's magnificence.  Decommission  :::D

If it was not an accident, then it was Muslim on Christian crime. If it was an accident, G-d was behind it. It reminds me of The Destruction of The Temple. Now the Catholics know how it felt when their ancestors (The Romans) destroyed The Temple.

Of course it is wrong from a human to cause violent damage on purpose or to take the law into one's hand. It's up to G-d how to deal with it. If France had a Nohaide government, historic Catholic churches would be decommissioned as churches and made into museums. Once the goyim de-sanctify a place of idolatry, it's no longer a place of idolatry and permitted to visit as an archeological site. Hopefully they will do this to the Notre Dame Cathedral as their are important archeological remains underneath. When I was in Paris, I walked past but didn't enter. Now the building is destroyed, hopefully they will turn the outside into an archeological area with no worries of going into a place of idolatry.


« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 04:38:19 PM by nessuno »
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 08:57:31 PM »
Construction of the “Notre Dame” Cathedral in Paris was commenced in 1160. The building was largely complete by 1260.

 In 1240 in Paris the same Catholic Church who was building the cathedral held the notorious Disputation of Paris in which the Talmud was tried for blasphemy against the church.

 The trial ended with rounding up all copies of the Talmud, 40 wagon loads, and burning them in the City Square of Paris. Those present could surely hear the sounds of the workers working on the nearly complete cathedral.

 Two of the Rabbis who participated in the debate are well known to us till today from the prayers they composed which are still part of our liturgy.

 Rabbi Shmuel of Falaise composed ‘Kadesh Urchatz Karpas Yahatz…” the poem we start the seder with.

 The Maharam of Rottenburg composed some of the prayers of mourning (kinnot) we read on Tisha b’av. One of them called ‘Shaali Srufa Besh’ mourns the events in Paris especially the burning of the Talmud.

 Two lines in this prayer speak of the trial and predict that G-d's vengeance will come to the church which held it.

תֵּשֵׁב בְּרֺב גַּאֲוָה לִּשְׁפּוֹט בְּנֵי אֵל בְּכָל הַמִּשְׁפָּטִים וְתָבִיא בִּפְלִילָיִךְ

 עוֹד תִּגְזוֹר לִשְׂרוֹף דָּת אֵשׁ וְחֻקִּים וְלָכֵן אַשְׁרֵי שֶׁיְּשַׁלֶּם לָךְ גְּמוּלָיִךְ.

 "You sit with much arrogance to judge the children of G-d in all the trials which you hold unjustly."

 "You even order to burn the religion of Fire (the Torah given at Sinai among flames) and it's laws, therefore happy is he who will repay your actions."

 As I complete preparations for Pesach in my home, I for one won't be shedding a tear for the fire burning in Paris.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 09:08:13 PM »
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 12:13:42 AM »
Notre Dame and the Jews

The flames at Notre Dame Cathedral should remind Jews of the burning by that very same church of tens of wagonloads of the Talmud in the Middle Ages.

Abraham Chicheportiche, 16/04/19 19:05 | updated: 18:34

Abraham Chicheportiche

The writer, born in Paris France, began writing articles in response to the exponential rise in anti-Semitism and hostility to Israel in the wake of 9/11 and is a contributor on Dreuz and other sites. He studied in the US, then made Alyah in 2012 and lives in Southern Israel.

The mainstream media, even in Israel, is featuring in headlines “The Crown of Thorns and tunic of St Louis saved from Notre Dame fire.”

I do not like to do it, but sometimes it is necessary to remind some Jews of historical facts about antisemitism in France.

Many of you have certainly visited Paris or The Notre Dame Cathedral, but how many of you have seen the two statues at the main entrance of the Paris Cathedral?

These statues, known as "Ecclesia" and "Sinagoga", represent the Christian theological doctrine of "Verus Israel" according to which the Jewish people are fallen and replaced by the "new Israel" represented here by a woman who stands with her head crowned facing the other woman represented who has her head bowed, blindfolded by a snake and holding in her hands the tables of the Law ...you know, the Jewish people's Torah.

Every year, millions of tourist flock to admire and photograph these statues, but do they really realize what they represent?

Theft, crimes and persecutions - those were committed in the name of Christianity?

We have entered the final phase of the redemption of Israel and of all humanity and it is truly regrettable to see some of our Jewish brothers saddened by this fire when this building represents in all its strength the exile of Israel and the will to replace us.

The Catholic Church became the official state religion of France at the conversion to Christianity of Clovis I, leading to France being called "the eldest daughter of the Church."

The construction of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris began in 1160. Construction was largely completed in 1260.

In 1240, in Paris, it was the same Catholic Church which had built the cathedral that held the famous Paris controversy in which the Talmud was tried for blasphemy against the church. There was no way the Jewish rabbis debating the Christians could win. Held at the instigation of Nicolas Donin, an apostate Jew converted to Christianity, he and clerics debated four rabbis, led by Rabbi Yehiel of Paris in the presence of King Louis IX of France.

Begun in 1240, the trial ended with the decree, out of the Notre Dame Cathedral, ordering seizure of all copies of the Talmud, that is tens of wagonloads, at least 10,000 handwritten voumes of holy texts (the printing press had not yet been invented)  and then burning them on nearby Place de Greve in 1242.

Two of the rabbis, Rabbi Shmuel of Falaise and the Maharam Rottenberg, who participated in the debate are well known to us today through the prayers they  composed and the elegies about the burning of the holy books which are still part of our liturgy.

But who was that Louis, King of France, who cooperated so willingly with the church?

Louis IX (1226-1270), grandson of Philip Augustus and King of France, was a king of the Middle Ages: a knight, religious, ascetic and hostile to the Jews.
In spite of the fact that this opposition worked to its own disadvantage, he opposed the lending activity of his Jewish subjects; he decreed laws against them and even finally ordered their expulsion.

Known today as St. Louis, he was very anxious to convert the Jews and encouraged the discussions between the synagogue and the Church to this end. At these theological disputes, it was hoped that some Jews would be converted, or at least shamed, and thus convinced unresolved Christians of the truth of Christianity and the baseness of Judaism.

There is reason to believe that Louis took no action to protect the Jews persecuted by so-called crusaders in 1236 in several provinces (Anjou, Poitou, Mançois, Touraine, Berry). When, in 1239, Pope Gregory IX asked the kings of France and Portugal to order the seizure of Jewish books for examination, Louis was the quickest and most zealous to obey. So 24 loads of Jewish books were burned in 1242.

The Talmud's trial, also called the Talmud's Burning, Paris Dispute or Talmud Controversy1 (Hebrew: ויכוח פריז Vikouah Pariz) is a major event in the history of the Jews and their relationship to Christianity.

So is King St. Louis a Saint? And what about his anti-Semitic measures?

King 'Saint' Louis was marked by a profound anti-Judaism of essentially religious nature. Louis IX, deeply Christian, did not like those Jews who refused to recognize Christ.

He condemns the Talmud!  King St. Louis, moreover, does not like these people who constitute a foreign body inside the kingdom of France that he seeks to unify.

'Saint' Louis goes further. "Christians have a chief," he said to himself, "it's the bishop. The Jews have no one, so I must be the bishop of the Jews and punish them when they behave badly, but also protect them when they are unjustly attacked ... "

Still, Saint Louis was instead a persecutor of the Jews to the point of imposing on them, in 1269, the wearing of the rouelle (a piece of red felt or cloth cut in the form of a wheel, four fingers in circumference, which had to be attached to the outer garment at the chest and back), advocated by the Church which took this decision at the Fourth Lateran Council, in 1215. Saint Louis did not hesitate to apply it, especially for the sake of integration and forced conversion of Jews to the national community.

King St Louis was the instigator of the last crusades and massacre of Jews in the Holy Land.

France is in state of shock, the Christian world is outraged while muslims are rejoicing on social media.
Jews have northing to mourn.

And by way of comparison, was the world shocked when on Kristallnacht November 9-10-1938, 1000 synagogues  were destroyed in flames by Nazi Germany, begining of the annihilation of the Jews of Europe?.



Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 04:12:21 AM »
What influenced you to become a noahide?

A desire for truth and fear of HaShem. I was raised Catholic, but I had doubts about Catholicism. I wanted to know more about the Tanach because in church we only learned the New Testament. I began to learn the Torah on my own. My learning increased my respect for the Jewish people. However, I did not want to convert to Judaism, so I thought the Torah was not for me. After years of studying different religions and philosophies I became ill and almost died. My death-bed experience made me return to my Torah studies. In 2009 I found an online list of the Seven Noahide Commandments. I accepted them immediately and wept tears of relief. I have been learning and following the 7 commandments ever since.     

Offline briann

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Re: Burning of The Talmud Is Avenged
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2019, 08:20:13 PM »
This isn't an avenging of anything.  It's already stood for way longer than 99.9% of structures from that period, and they (a bunch of french billionaires) are just going to rebuild it.