Author Topic: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?  (Read 620 times)

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Online ChabadKahanist

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 06:29:21 AM »
there is no status of actual marriage between Jews and Gentiles- The true identity of a child as a Jew or a Gentile by birth is matrilineal; it follows the identity of the mother who conceived the embryo and carried it through pregnancy until the child's birth. This is stated explicitly by God in the Torah (see Rashi on Deuteronomy 7:4). On the other hand, the membership of a born- Jewish person in one of the Twelve Tribes of Israael is patrilineal, based on the tribe of the born-Jewish father. Therefore, a child who is born to a Jewish woman and a Gentile father is fully Jewish, but without membership in any of the Twelve Tribes; see Rashi on Leviticus 24:10. (the Divine Code by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, Ask Noah International, 2011, p 509).

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 07:41:19 AM »
People always call their scumery heroic. The reform movement has a trief food festival. They find the way to make the most sins in one dish and eat it. They surely have some explanation about inclusiveness, but it's a self-aggrandizing sham. They just want to provoke the religion to seem edgy. Should orthodoxy follow them in anything, they will be forced to move further due to the nature of their movement. They have hand-bag Judaism, it's all for show, and they'll discard it and make a new one if their friend has the same bag.

They don't want to allow non-Jews to be Jews to be loving. They're doing it because they hate halacha, and only don't consider third cousins of Jews as Jews yet because we haven't followed them that far. Make no mistake, the path they want Judaism on is off a cliff and not to a loving inclusive love fest, they'll still resent you if you wear tzitzit.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 03:56:15 AM »

They don't want to allow non-Jews to be Jews to be loving. They're doing it because they hate halacha,

And for those membership fees$$$$

If they don't allow non Jews to suddenly be considered Jews in their "temples," their membership rolls run dry once their congregants intermarry and cease to show up in synagogue.  They came to accept intermarriage and then even non-Jewish "membership" to save the dying corpse of reform judaism, a body they put into cardiac arrest and then started doing CPR on it

Online ChabadKahanist

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 09:05:23 AM »
And for those membership fees$$$$

If they don't allow non Jews to suddenly be considered Jews in their "temples," their membership rolls run dry once their congregants intermarry and cease to show up in synagogue.  They came to accept intermarriage and then even non-Jewish "membership" to save the dying corpse of reform judaism, a body they put into cardiac arrest and then started doing CPR on it
And the grossly misnamed "conservative" movement is not far behind as whatever reform does "conservative" does 10-20 years later!!!!

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 01:53:15 PM »
And the grossly misnamed "conservative" movement is not far behind as whatever reform does "conservative" does 10-20 years later!!!!

Yup, they are the most confused of all

Offline Yehudayaakov

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 02:10:48 PM »
What does it mean to be a jew? Aside her genealogy,  a jew is someone who when he sees another jew's suffering,  he doesn't  rationalize and forget but he understands the suffering is real and doesn't put aside her suffering as something trivial that doesn't need attention.  Most Jews are indifferent to the suffering of their own but a true jew will try to positively impact with action his environment.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 03:18:25 PM »
What does it mean to be a jew? Aside her genealogy,  a jew is someone who when he sees another jew's suffering,  he doesn't  rationalize and forget but he understands the suffering is real and doesn't put aside her suffering as something trivial that doesn't need attention.  Most Jews are indifferent to the suffering of their own but a true jew will try to positively impact with action his environment.

A Jew is someone who is born from a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism with real (orthodox) rabbis.  There is no other definition.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 03:27:49 AM »
People always call their scumery heroic. The reform movement has a trief food festival. They find the way to make the most sins in one dish and eat it. They surely have some explanation about inclusiveness, but it's a self-aggrandizing sham. They just want to provoke the religion to seem edgy. Should orthodoxy follow them in anything, they will be forced to move further due to the nature of their movement. They have hand-bag Judaism, it's all for show, and they'll discard it and make a new one if their friend has the same bag.

They don't want to allow non-Jews to be Jews to be loving. They're doing it because they hate halacha, and only don't consider third cousins of Jews as Jews yet because we haven't followed them that far. Make no mistake, the path they want Judaism on is off a cliff and not to a loving inclusive love fest, they'll still resent you if you wear tzitzit.

Question What if it was found out years later who the lost tribes really were, and it turned out that what people thought were Gentiles were actually Jews after all, in far flung places like Japan, Europe, Africa, etc. among people you wouldn't expect to be of Jewish heritage? Or does it not work that way? It seems like in the future that might be able to be determined. Would the tribe status be restored in that case if the father were found to be a member of a lost tribe after all?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2020, 04:19:15 PM »
Since these did not remain distinct and all had lots of intermixing and intermarriage with the non-tribe/gentiles they would need to convert to Judaism. There would be extremely low odds that they maintained a maternal line with no outmixing all the way from their original tribe members (or even paternal for that matter!), especially considering they at some point in history either forgot or weren't concerned with who they are or where they are from (ie from within whatever tribe).  That identity was not maintained, so the need or desire to remain a tribe was non-existent and outmixing was on a massive scale.   The conversion would also be a reasonable action to take considering they mostly lost their practices and traditions and would need at very least a refresher course on how to follow the Torah, but likely more than just a refresher course and more of a deep immersion.

Descending from the Israelites is not like an Elizabeth Warren case where 1/1024th DNA would qualify for "membership."  One event of marrying out and it already broke the line many generations ago.  So for all these reasons it requires conversion.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2020, 10:08:38 PM »
Question What if it was found out years later who the lost tribes really were, and it turned out that what people thought were Gentiles were actually Jews after all, in far flung places like Japan, Europe, Africa, etc. among people you wouldn't expect to be of Jewish heritage? Or does it not work that way? It seems like in the future that might be able to be determined. Would the tribe status be restored in that case if the father were found to be a member of a lost tribe after all?

Question What if it was found out years later who the lost tribes really were, and it turned out that what people thought were Gentiles were actually Jews after all, in far flung places like Japan, Europe, Africa, etc. among people you wouldn't expect to be of Jewish heritage? Or does it not work that way? It seems like in the future that might be able to be determined. Would the tribe status be restored in that case if the father were found to be a member of a lost tribe after all?

It's prophesied the remnant of Israel will be a few out of many. The current Jewish population is low, and say anywhere from 1% to 12x the current number of Jews is scattered around the world. They didn't make a nation that I know of.

For the tribe, tribe is a cherry on top of being a Jew. You can't be a non-Jew and have a tribe. It's like you go to college and are in alpha schmalpha fraternity. If their mother was found to be a Jew they are a Jew, if their father is they are a Jew with a tribe. If just their father is, regardless of his tribe it's easier for them to convert now, but they don't get the tribe just like you don't get to join alpha schmalpha if you don't go to the college it's located at.

It is prophesied that when Moshiah comes he will gather the remnant of Jacob from among the tribes. As a positive (something good will happen) prophesy this must surely happen.
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 12:59:33 AM »
We had 10 active members before Trump was elected. After that we had 3 active members.

Some of the people who disappeared have slowly returned.

I never left. I've been here for 21 years. And I don't send money anymore.

Considering that people were sending me death threats and other things I needed to step back for a while. As I said, drama that I didn't need.


Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 02:49:03 PM »
Considering that people were sending me death threats and other things I needed to step back for a while. As I said, drama that I didn't need.

I remember that there was one crazy person who was sending death threats to everyone on JTF and they just banned him. You had more than one?
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 02:39:27 PM »
What does it mean to be a jew? Aside her genealogy,  a jew is someone who when he sees another jew's suffering,  he doesn't  rationalize and forget but he understands the suffering is real and doesn't put aside her suffering as something trivial that doesn't need attention.  Most Jews are indifferent to the suffering of their own but a true jew will try to positively impact with action his environment.


Thats nice.  I can relate.  I'm from Rodrigues (Portuguese Sephardic) & Scot by my Mother and Levin (Austria), my father was a Levin but also Seneca, Native Amer.
I did not grow up Jewish, as in religion.  I really grew up with no faith at all, no church, no synagogue. Nothing.  Much later I had my spiritual awakening and I always believed in HaShem.

I definitely agree with your synopsis even though its sort of  personal.
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 03:14:00 PM »
I remember that there was one crazy person who was sending death threats to everyone on JTF and they just banned him. You had more than one?

More than one personality but not sure if they were all the same with different screen names

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Patrinealism Who is a Jew?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 06:42:13 PM »
More than one personality but not sure if they were all the same with different screen names

Yeah they come back regularly. Made like a thousand posts last time saying that I spell poorly. The admin keeps banning them, probably mentally retarded and lonely somewhere.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge