Many blacks support murderer of white woman on Charlotte train (JTF video)

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Please promote this important video everywhere possible.

Rumble:
https://rumble.com/embed/v6wklfy/?pub=ltn9b

[Dovid_2]

Looks like he had fried chicken withdrawal and took it out on Whitey.

[Dan Ben Noah]

Liked, commented, shared, tweeted.

If you put the issue "Should blacks be allowed to murder?" on a ballot, many blacks would vote in favor.  The proof is in black-run South Africa where murdering white farmers is celebrated in their political system.  The solution is collective punishment for collective guilt.  Blacks should be included in the deportations (using plenty of chains), or executed (using plenty of nooses).

[Hrvatski Noahid]

To repent for an extremely grave sin, such as murder, God forbid, the person should change his name, implying that he is no longer the same person as the one who did the sin, and he should exile himself to another place. It is taught in the Hebrew Bible that exile absolves one from sin, because it chastens a person and causes him to become humble and self-effacing.

[Dovid_2]

To repent for an extremely grave sin, such as murder, God forbid, the person should change his name, implying that he is no longer the same person as the one who did the sin, and he should exile himself to another place. It is taught in the Hebrew Bible that exile absolves one from sin, because it chastens a person and causes him to become humble and self-effacing.

We do not teach this halacha publicly (that there is repentance for murder) in the manner that you have, just as we do not teach in public the halacha that one may kill an open adulterer like Phinehas killed Zimri.

Please be more careful of what you publish in the future.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

We do not teach this halacha publicly (that there is repentance for murder) in the manner that you have, just as we do not teach in public the halacha that one may kill an open adulterer like Phinehas killed Zimri.

Please be more careful of what you publish in the future.

Who's we? My rabbis teach it publicly. I am allowed to cite it publicly.

[Dovid_2]

Who's we? My rabbis teach it publicly. I am allowed to cite it publicly.

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/]הלכה_ואין_מורין_כן.

Hopefully you have learned to read Hebrew after all these years.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/]הלכה_ואין_מורין_כן.

Hopefully you have learned to read Hebrew after all these years.

I do not read Hebrew and I do not get the details of my Torah law from Wikipedia.

From Seven Gates of Righteous Knowledge by Rabbi Weiner and Dr. Schulman, page 151:

"To repent for an extremely grave sin, such as murder, God forbid, the person should change his name, implying that he is no longer the same person as the one who did the sin, and he should exile himself to another place. It is taught in the Hebrew Bible that exile absolves one from sin, because it chastens a person and causes him to become humble and self-effacing."

From the Divine Code, 2nd edition, page 463:

"But if a murderer accomplishes a complete repentance for all of his actions, his prayers are accepted by God, and there is hope for him that he will be forgiven by God on the Day of Judgment. And it is entirely fitting that he should go to the graveside of the person he killed, and ask the person's soul to forgive him."   

I speak fluent Croatian. If you want me to communicate in a language you don't understand, let me know.

[Dovid_2]

And it is entirely fitting that he should go to the graveside of the person he killed, and ask the person's soul to forgive him."

I have it from the Yeshivah of Rabbeinu Meshulam of Lunel from the 14th century that there is no communication between heaven and the sub-lunar realm -- that means to say, the dead cannot contact the living -- and vice versa.

But of course -- you have the great works of the Geonim Rabbi Weiner and Rabbi Schulman from the 21st century that trumps all ancient Jewish wisdom, so I defer to you, an uncircumcised Croatian for my Torah knowledge.

I speak fluent Croatian. If you want me to communicate in a language you don't understand, let me know.

In a cave in the Sinai desert, Moses inscribed some 3800 years ago the Hebrew words "זאת ממשה".  This took place as the proto-Croatians were batting their mates on the head, and dragging them back to the cave to produce their next generation of offspring.  If I ever feel the need to bat a woman on the head for that purpose (G-D forbid!), I will ask you to teach me the language of your ancestors for that purpose.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

I have it from the Yeshivah of Rabbeinu Meshulam of Lunel from the 14th century that there is no communication between heaven and the sub-lunar realm -- that means to say, the dead cannot contact the living -- and vice versa.

But of course -- you have the great works of the Geonim Rabbi Weiner and Rabbi Schulman from the 21st century that trumps all ancient Jewish wisdom, so I defer to you, an uncircumcised Croatian for my Torah knowledge.

In a cave in the Sinai desert, Moses inscribed some 3800 years ago the Hebrew words "זאת ממשה".  This took place as the proto-Croatians were batting their mates on the head, and dragging them back to the cave to produce their next generation of offspring.  If I ever feel the need to bat a woman on the head for that purpose (G-D forbid!), I will ask you to teach me the language of your ancestors for that purpose.

Rambam, Laws of Repentance chapter 2, writes that if the person who one offended passes away, one should go to the deceased person's grave and ask forgiveness. Is Rambam an uncircumcised Croatian?

Your ancestors have the merit of becoming literate before mine. Great. Did you hear the part in the video where Chaim opposes Hebrew in America because the national language is English? My national language is Croatian.

[Dovid_2]

Rambam, Laws of Repentance chapter 2, writes that if the person who one offended passes away, one should go to the deceased person's grave and ask forgiveness. Is Rambam an uncircumcised Croatian?

Here is the relevant paragraph in Rambam:

הַחוֹטֵא לַחֲבֵרוֹ וּמֵת חֲבֵרוֹ קֹדֶם שֶׁיְּבַקֵּשׁ מְחִילָה מֵבִיא עֲשָׂרָה בְּנֵי אָדָם וּמַעֲמִידָן עַל קִבְרוֹ וְיֹאמַר בִּפְנֵיהֶם חָטָאתִי לַה' אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלִפְלוֹנִי זֶה שֶׁכָּךְ וְכָךְ עָשִׂיתִי לוֹ. וְאִם הָיָה חַיָּב לוֹ מָמוֹן יַחֲזִירוֹ לַיּוֹרְשִׁים. לֹא הָיָה יוֹדֵעַ לוֹ יוֹרְשִׁין יַנִּיחֶנּוּ בְּבֵית דִּין וְיִתְוַדֶּה:

You completely misunderstand the purpose of what the Rambam is prescribing.  G-D forbid the Rambam thought that the person is communicating with the dead person at his grave!

This is where your centuries of Christian brainwashing lets you down and you are unable to disassociate bad and mistaken beliefs from the truth.  That... and your coarse intellect.

Your ancestors have the merit of becoming literate before mine. Great. Did you hear the part in the video where Chaim opposes Hebrew in America because the national language is English? My national language is Croatian.

You leave out the part where Judaism reports that G-D offered the Torah to your ancestors and they rejected it.  We accepted it.  Tough noogies, those are the breaks -- as Don Rickles used to say.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

Here is the relevant paragraph in Rambam:

הַחוֹטֵא לַחֲבֵרוֹ וּמֵת חֲבֵרוֹ קֹדֶם שֶׁיְּבַקֵּשׁ מְחִילָה מֵבִיא עֲשָׂרָה בְּנֵי אָדָם וּמַעֲמִידָן עַל קִבְרוֹ וְיֹאמַר בִּפְנֵיהֶם חָטָאתִי לַה' אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלִפְלוֹנִי זֶה שֶׁכָּךְ וְכָךְ עָשִׂיתִי לוֹ. וְאִם הָיָה חַיָּב לוֹ מָמוֹן יַחֲזִירוֹ לַיּוֹרְשִׁים. לֹא הָיָה יוֹדֵעַ לוֹ יוֹרְשִׁין יַנִּיחֶנּוּ בְּבֵית דִּין וְיִתְוַדֶּה:

You completely misunderstand the purpose of what the Rambam is prescribing.  G-D forbid the Rambam thought that the person is communicating with the dead person at his grave!

This is where your centuries of Christian brainwashing lets you down and you are unable to disassociate bad and mistaken beliefs from the truth.  That... and your coarse intellect.You leave out the part where Judaism reports that G-D offered the Torah to your ancestors and they rejected it.  We accepted it.  Tough noogies, those are the breaks -- as Don Rickles used to say.

The purpose is to ask forgiveness from the person's soul, as Rabbi Weiner quotes and explains.

I am happy being a Gentile. I do not have to read Hebrew and I do not want to be a Jewish slave with 613 commandments who cannot eat a cheeseburger. It is honorable to be a slave to God, but it is not for me.

Most Jews respect righteous Gentiles, but you are one of the few with a demonic hatred for Gentiles who left the idolatry of their ancestors.

[Dovid_2]

The purpose is to ask forgiveness from the person's soul, as Rabbi Weiner quotes and explains.

The son-in-law of Don Astruc Des Gabai, student of Rabbenu Meshulam, disagrees with Rabbi Weiner then.  You cannot ask forgiveness from a person's soul.  The purpose of the quorum and attendance at the person's grave is to compel the sinner to realize his own mortality.  And this is the reason that Geonim generally discourage visiting cemeteries -- because it is damaging to what Aristotle called the "compartments" of the soul (the five compartments are appetitive, nutritive, imaginative, sensitive, and rational).  You're expected to understand some basic philosophy in Judaism and not blindly quote from a book for Gentiles -- and especially not at those with far more knowledge of the faith than you!

I am happy being a Gentile. I do not have to read Hebrew and I do not want to be a Jewish slave with 613 commandments who cannot eat a cheeseburger. It is honorable to be a slave to God, but it is not for me.

I want to have sex all day but also be able to perceive the Shechinah...  Your desire alone does not render the impossible possible.  The two are mutually exclusive.  In fact, the Student writes that one who is engaged in relations too often has his eyes plastered over so that he is "unable to perceive the Shechinah".

You seem to be happily entrenched with the teachings of Rabbi Weiner and Rabbi Schulman, may G-D grant them a long life.  Adept knowledge of halacha does not preclude one from the obligation of acquiring knowledge of G-D.  You seem to suggest that this is the case.  Enjoy your cheeseburgers.

Most Jews respect righteous Gentiles, but you are one of the few with a demonic hatred for Gentiles who left the idolatry of their ancestors.

I hate the kind of Gentile who becomes a complete jerk after becoming a Noahide or converting.  I think he would be better off as a person not having done either of those things.  And yes, I have met many Gentiles like that.  Of course this is going to be the case when we now have our Land.  Where were you during the holocaust?

[Hrvatski Noahid]

I hate the kind of Gentile who becomes a complete jerk after becoming a Noahide or converting.  I think he would be better off as a person not having done either of those things.  And yes, I have met many Gentiles like that.  Of course this is going to be the case when we now have our Land.  Where were you during the holocaust?

Where was I during the Holocaust? I was born in 1989, you idiot.

On this forum, you called me a Nazi rat, an uncircumcised Croatian rabbi and a complete jerk. What triggers this demonic hatred? My quotes of Rabbi Weiner and Dr. Schulman.

You are demonic. Seek help.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

What is this? A Jew and a righteous Gentile insulting each other on a public forum - that is certainly forbidden!

Dovid, Hrvatski is very much a righteous Gentile who supports Israel and the Jewish people and who also tells the truth to non-Jews about the need to follow the seven mitzvot of bnei Noach. Even if you disagree with something he writes, you should be praising him for doing what Hashem wants. I am surprised that you allow a disagreement to descend into public insults.

Hrvatski, there are different categories of murder in the Torah. While the Torah calls all of these categories "retzach" (murder), the punishment is drastically different. Just as there are different categories of murder in modern Western law - first degree murder, second degree murder and so on. Intentional murder is bemezid in Torah Judaism and there is no escape from the punishment of the death penalty. Accidental or unintentional murder is beshogeg, such as careless driving or allowing someone to work in dangerous conditions. Only unintentional murderers can escape to designated cities of refuge (arei miklat) to escape revenge killing from the victim's relatives.

Gentiles are NOT required to convert. They are required to follow the seven mitzvot of bnei Noach. In this very evil generation, when someone like Hrvatski decides to become ben Noach and even devotes himself to spreading this important message to others, he should be praised and he will certainly be greatly rewarded by Hashem. The fact that he remains a loyal ben Noach despite occasionally being unfairly attacked makes him even more worthy of praise and reward. Hashem (G-d) loves bnei Noach and their reward will be eternal life in the next world.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

בס''ד
Hrvatski, there are different categories of murder in the Torah. While the Torah calls all of these categories "retzach" (murder), the punishment is drastically different. Just as there are different categories of murder in modern Western law - first degree murder, second degree murder and so on. Intentional murder is bemezid in Torah Judaism and there is no escape from the punishment of the death penalty. Accidental or unintentional murder is beshogeg, such as careless driving or allowing someone to work in dangerous conditions. Only unintentional murderers can escape to designated cities of refuge (arei miklat) to escape revenge killing from the victim's relatives.

In the Torah law for Gentiles, there are four levels of intention for causing a person's death. There is a fundamental difference between a person's liability to punishment in a court of law, and his power to cleanse his soul from liability in the eyes of God. God certainly accepts sincere repentance regardless of the murderer's intention. 

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

In the Torah law for Gentiles, there are four levels of intention for causing a person's death. There is a fundamental difference between a person's liability to punishment in a court of law, and his power to cleanse his soul from liability in the eyes of God. God certainly accepts sincere repentance regardless of the murderer's intention.

בס''ד

There is a difference between repentance (tshuva in Hebrew) and atonement (kipur). An intentional murderer cannot escape his punishment by saying he's sorry. There are many examples of this in both the Torah and the Tanach. For example, after the sin of the spies who did not want to enter the land of Israel, the Jews repented but G-d refused to cancel their punishment - they were forced to die in the desert and could not enter the land. Even Moses and Aaron were not allowed to enter the land when their punishment was not forgiven despite sincere repentance. In the Bible, in the book of Kings, the Jews of Judah repented after the sins of King Menasheh, but G-d refused to cancel their punishment of exile and destruction of the First Temple because Menasheh spilled a lot of innocent blood. There are numerous other examples. Repentance is not atonement.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

בס''ד

There is a difference between repentance (tshuva in Hebrew) and atonement (kipur). An intentional murderer cannot escape his punishment by saying he's sorry. There are many examples of this in both the Torah and the Tanach. For example, after the sin of the spies who did not want to enter the land of Israel, the Jews repented but G-d refused to cancel their punishment - they were forced to die in the desert and could not enter the land. Even Moses and Aaron were not allowed to enter the land when their punishment was not forgiven despite sincere repentance. In the Bible, in the book of Kings, the Jews of Judah repented after the sins of King Menasheh, but G-d refused to cancel their punishment of exile and destruction of the First Temple because Menasheh spilled a lot of innocent blood. There are numerous other examples. Repentance is not atonement.

You are conflating Jewish law and Noahide law. Jewish law is more restrictive. Rightly, because a nation of priests must have a more restrictive standard. If Gentiles repent sincerely, God forgives them for their sins and does not punish them for the past. We find this exemplified by the city of Nineveh.   

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

You are conflating Jewish law and Noahide law. Jewish law is more restrictive. Rightly, because a nation of priests must have a more restrictive standard. If Gentiles repent sincerely, God forgives them for their sins and does not punish them for the past. We find this exemplified by the city of Nineveh.

בס''ד

G-d forbid! You mean if Hitler repented for murdering 6 million Jews, the holocaust would go unpunished? And Hitler would have eternal life, G-d forbid? In Christianity, that is how it works because Christianity is a man-made religion with man-made laws. But in Judaism, when Jew or Gentile does wrong, they must try to correct the harm that they have done. Murder cannot be corrected - you can't bring the murder victim back to life. Therefore murder must be punished.

As far as Nineveh is concerned, the Assyrians did even sincerely repent. They "repented" only because they were afraid that G-d would destroy them. Jonah the prophet tried to escape from delivering the prophesy to them because he knew that they would return to their evil ways and destroy Israel (which is what happened). That's why Jonah boarded a ship to avoid prophesizing to them. The ship hit very turbulent waters while Jonah was on it, but when Jonah was thrown overboard, the waters immediately calmed down. The terrified Assyrians on the ship reported this when they got to Nineveh and so all of the Assyrians were petrified of what would happen if they ignored Jonah's warnings. G-d was willing to let the Assyrians escape immediate destruction because He wanted to use them to punish Israel. But in the end, the Assyrians were destroyed permanently.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

בס''ד

Murder cannot be corrected - you can't bring the murder victim back to life. Therefore murder must be punished.

I disagree, Chaim. It is Christianity which teaches that sincere repentance is not accepted and you need Jesus. You can ask the victim's soul for forgiveness and you can bring the victim back to life with reincarnation and resurrection.

Cain was an intentional murderer. But God came to him and said to him, "if you will improve yourself, you will be forgiven" (Genesis 4:7). As an eternal lesson for all generations, God instructed Cain about the ability to repent, which is in the hands of every person: to repent and return to God at any time one desires and makes the decision to do so, and God will forgive him.

[Dovid_2]

I disagree, Chaim. It is Christianity which teaches that sincere repentance is not accepted and you need Jesus. You can ask the victim's soul for forgiveness and you can bring the victim back to life with reincarnation and resurrection.

It is the church which sold "indulgences" for any sin, not Judaism.  Did one necessarily require Jesus for the allowance?  No.  You only needed to pay someone who was recognized as an authority by the church.  Christianity will try and muddy the waters of debate on what exactly an "indulgence" was.  But the fact is, at its very common denominator, it was payment for permission to commit a sin, and even if that's not what its original intention was, that's what it became, and it was approved by the Church even in its final form.  And the only reason why they curtailed it is because it's embarrassing to them.

Cain was an intentional murderer. But God came to him and said to him, "if you will improve yourself, you will be forgiven" (Genesis 4:7). As an eternal lesson for all generations, God instructed Cain about the ability to repent, which is in the hands of every person: to repent and return to God at any time one desires and makes the decision to do so, and God will forgive him.

Do I need to point out the obvious that verse 7 in Chapter 4 comes before the next verse in which Cain murders Abel?  G-D is telling Cain in verse 7 to improve himself and if he does he will be successful.  Cain was born with bad ethical faculties (I drew this inference from Ibn Ezra on this verse, who states that Cain committed sins), Abel had good ethical faculties.

I won't go into great detail, but the Student states that those born with bad ethical faculties "die young" and are "...cast out from the midst of man".  But Judaism is not Calvinist Christianity (lehavdil elef havdalot) and we do not believe in predeterminism.  Even one who is "cast out" (i.e. born with bad ethical faculties) is told by G-D to try hard.  What precisely the mechanism of salvation is for such a person is beyond our knowledge.  In medieval times, Jews adopted the theory of the "gilgul" (transmigration of souls).  Not everyone accepts this theory, and this is beyond the scope of this discussion.

To conclude, G-D is not forgiving Cain for the sin, to the contrary, G-D goes on to curse him in the following verses.

Out of respect for Chaim I have held back my acerbic disposition and my acid tongue in my refutation, but please study your sources carefully next time before writing blindly.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

Do I need to point out the obvious that verse 7 in Chapter 4 comes before the next verse in which Cain murders Abel?  G-D is telling Cain in verse 7 to improve himself and if he does he will be successful.

There is no sequence of earlier and later incidents in the Torah, as Rashi explains on Exodus 19:11.

My worry is the major codifications of Noahide law teach there is no blemish of sin that cannot be washed away. It is true that sins against people will not be forgiven by God until the one who committed the sin makes restitution to the victim and asks for his forgiveness. But the murderer can ask for forgiveness from the victim's soul.

 
 

[Dovid_2]

There is no sequence of earlier and later incidents in the Torah, as Rashi explains on Exodus 19:11.

My goodness!  How you misunderstand Rashi and apply such a coarse interpretation to the entire Torah!  Rashi is speaking of chronology when it comes to explaining rote, per se.  Heaven forbid one should apply this interpretation and introduce anachronisms into the most basic Biblical narratives.

But the murderer can ask for forgiveness from the victim's soul.

Again, don't go around advertising this, just like you should not go around and advertise the halacha that one is permitted to kill a man who commits adultery with the specific intention of desecrating G-D's name.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

Again, don't go around advertising this, just like you should not go around and advertise the halacha that one is permitted to kill a man who commits adultery with the specific intention of desecrating G-D's name.

If Chaim's video claims there is no forgiveness for murder, it is appropriate to mention the actual law.