JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph1 on October 19, 2007, 03:48:03 AM
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I think it is.
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I agree wiyh you.
No rape victim should be further traumatised over another 9 months carrying (and risking her life in child birth for) a rapist's bastard.
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It's justified. I honestly don't think that any man has the right to tell a woman that she should be forced to keep a child that is the result of a rape because he has no idea what it would be like to get raped and then be forced to have the rapist's baby.
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It's justified. I honestly don't think that any man has the right to tell a woman that she should be forced to keep a child that is the result of a rape because he has no idea what it would be like to get raped and then be forced to have the rapist's baby.
Every kick, cramp or movement would force her to re-live the ordeal. The health of the mother takes precedence over the unborne. That should include mental health too.
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I know Chaim will disagree with me here but what you have said Ralph makes total sense...
I believe in abortion in circumstances of that nature when the woman is in extreme pain and must be further hurt due to someone else's lack of morals...
SO Guiliani in my opinion is almost the perfect person running for president seeing as this is what he will push
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According to Chaim and his interpretation of what the Rabbis said, it isn't permitted. He says that the fetus is still innocent even if it was, Gd forbid, from a savage nut. However, I disagree with him on other reasons.
If it is a medical procedure to save the life of the mother, certainly mental health shoudl come into the picture. Not sure where the Torah stands with mental problems that are due to trauma during a lifetime.
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I voted NO.
I only believe in abortion when the mothers life is in danger.
Half that baby is hers, and why should a sins of the father be cursed apon the child.
As for the mental health of the mother, more damage can occur with the abortion. Its far belong anything else a woman must face.
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I would let the child live.Why kill an innocent and pre judge that person.
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This is a very delicate subject but I have to say no.
Either abortion is murder or it is permitted. Since it's murder, I don't care why the women wants to murder her kid, it doesn't matter, she isn't allowed to. What if the kid is 3 years old and she says he reminds her of the rape, can she kill him then too?
The only time you can kill the baby is if it causes a danger to the physical health of the mother, and she might die. Then you kill him.
I'm sure that many women are traumatized when pregnant; maybe they got a divorce, maybe they are bipolar, it doesn't matter, the kid is innocent and if you kill it you are a murderer.
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yes ,sorry but no child is guilty of his dads sins.And yes I know of sins of the fathers.I don't mean that!
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No, it may be traumatic, but 9 months out of your life, to ensure that little person, who is totally innocent, gets a chance at life isnt too much to ask. If it would be too difficult to see that child everyday without being reminded, there are thousands of loving couples who would gladly give that baby a good home.
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Exactly you can send the child to a better place ,why not give it a chance.
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If the law were that in rape that the fetus must go through full term (unless the mother's physical life were in danger), the right solution is to give the child up for adoption..
It's all together a difficult sad situation...What if I were married and this, Gd forbid happened to my wife?...what if to my unmarried or married daughter? I'm sorry, I'm not a saint nor that self less to allow my wife or daughters or sisters or whomever close to me to allow that fetus to be born..I'm sorry, I can't accept it...rip my arms off if you have to...I can't allow it...no way...
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The woman has the absolute right to abortion. In fact, she has more right to an abortion than those whose lives are in danger because of a pregnancy. I can argue that the child isn't innocent because it has the genetics of a rapist. However, even if one wants to believe the child is innocent the mother is innocent as well and she shouldn't go through the pain of a pregnancy she had no choice in. If the abortion is murder then the rapist should be charged with murder for causing the rape victim to abort his child.
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What if the woman is white and the rapist is black?
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The child is still innocent.
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The question is, Is Abortion Murder?
And the answer is YES.
There is no excuse for murder.
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The question is, Is Abortion Murder?
And the answer is YES.
There is no excuse for murder.
According to the Torah, not quite.
It is written: When a pregnant woman is pushed down and it causes a miscarriage, a fine is paid. However, if the pregnant woman dies, it is life for life.
Therefore, is the fetus equal to the mother's life... According to the Torah, no. Therefore, is aborting an innocent fetus, but without harming the mother in anway equal to murder? No, but it depends on the situation. If it is murder, then so is killing any cell in anyone's own body since in cloaning one can make an offspring from a skin cell...and then what about sperm and eggs...if un used, isn't that murder too? I mean, I'm building a fence here aren't I?
My point isn't to recommend abortions. I don't recommend it at all. I say that it shoudl be between the mother and the doctor for health reasons but with ethics in mind...and that's where the Rabbi, priest, or whomever gets into it.
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Isn't there a certain number of days before, the foetus actually has a heart, or has been "ensouled".
I believe that if the woman is in danger of her life then an abortion is ok but apart from that, not really. Unless it is done in the earliest stage possible.
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I really, really hate the idea of abortion.. but I think it should be permitted in the case of rape. What if the mother is not financially ready to have a child? Mentally ready? Of course there is always the choice of adoption..
I would be much more concerned about finding the rapists and throwing them off a very high cliff.
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What if a Christian raped a muslim should the muslim girl be forced to keep it? :-\
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No one should be forced to keep a baby, there are thousands of mentally, financially and emotionally stable couples who are waiting to adopt an infant. I dont think I would be able to keep and look at the child, even though its not their fault, it would be too painful....but another couple could raise that child and give it everthing it needs, the mother only needs to give it life.
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I voted NO. Abortion can only be considered when pregnancy endangers the mother's life. A son of a rapist is innocent. The son shall not die for his fathers' sin, says the Torah. And please don't say that rapism is genetic, even if it were nobody is guilty untill he actually commits the sin by himself. If the child were guilty, then we should kill every person whose father is a rapist!!!!! Absurd!!!!!
According the Orthodoxy abortion can not be considered murder, but a crime against life, though. But for Noahides there is no distinction. Sfichut Damim includes all crimes against life. However a Goyah can also abort if her life is in danger.
Regarding the psak of the Torah about a pregnat woman there is a Karaite different interpretation. They say, if the hit woman gives birth before time and the child survives, then it is a fine, if the child dies, then life for life.
Hope it permitted to post a Karaite interpretation in this forum. After all, Christians are allowed to post althogh they are not considered to be Jewish.
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What if a Christian raped a muslim should the muslim girl be forced to keep it? :-\
Rape is evil...so that Christian as any person who would viciously rape someone (i'm not talkign about date rape) shoudl be put to death.
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I voted NO. Abortion can only be considered when pregnancy endangers the mother's life. A son of a rapist is innocent. The son shall not die for his fathers' sin, says the Torah. And please don't say that rapism is genetic, even if it were nobody is guilty untill he actually commits the sin by himself. If the child were guilty, then we should kill every person whose father is a rapist!!!!! Absurd!!!!!
According the Orthodoxy abortion can not be considered murder, but a crime against life, though. But for Noahides there is no distinction. Sfichut Damim includes all crimes against life. However a Goyah can also abort if her life is in danger.
Regarding the psak of the Torah about a pregnat woman there is a Karaite different interpretation. They say, if the hit woman gives birth before time and the child survives, then it is a fine, if the child dies, then life for life.
Hope it permitted to post a Karaite interpretation in this forum. After all, Christians are allowed to post althogh they are not considered to be Jewish.
That's interesting, the Karaite interpretation.
I should add another comment from what I said before...If it were my wife, Gd forbid, but she decided to go to term for the child and then give it up for adoption, I would accept that..especially to keep the peace...and the bottom line is to keep the peace between me and my wife...for me to try to convince her that she woudl be comitting murder aborting a fetus as a result of a rape would destroy the peace of my home...I think the love of myself and my wife and the Gd willing ability to have more kids together if we stick together these tough times take more precendence over this bastard fetus...
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I don't believe taking of life is always murder like with euthanasia. Abortion is not the same as killing one of your co-workers. Everyone says it's the same, and they're wrong. Women who abuse their abortion rights are not criminals, they should be sterilized maybe.
What really confuses me about this pro-life movement is why adopting children from other poorer countries is so difficult. If there's such a need for adoption why not go to a country where they are trying to get rid of children. Are they worried about immunization or diseases? In some blackmarkets, you can just buy children. There's human trafficking. I'm more worried about the orphans who live there than the unborn babies from here.
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Can we post -birth Abort?Why not.Whats the difference!If a women kills her one month old.She will be tried for murder .If that same women aborts a 12 months she made a choice.Sick huh?
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Okay, what about a morning after pill. Apparently it can be effective for up to 72 hours after the rape. You would not be killing a child since the child has not yet been conceived. Technically speaking, of course, you can say that it IS murder because, if the woman doesn't take the pill, there's a chance she may become pregnant.
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Its a woman's choice
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Sorry, thats why one should take precautions not to be alone or go somewhere with a guy (not related to you) alone. You dont want your daughters raped? Dont let them go out alone, and be strict on her knowing where she is and with whom, make curfews.
Torah law is Torah law, lets not make new laws - like Soddom and Gomorah.
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
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Sorry, thats why one should take precautions not to be alone or go somewhere with a guy (not related to you) alone. You dont want your daughters raped? Dont let them go out alone, and be strict on her knowing where she is and with whom, make curfews.
Torah law is Torah law, lets not make new laws - like Soddom and Gomorah.
Those are good tips but you can't really prevent rape. Anyone can rape a women, heck, he pervert father can. But even if you are raped, that doesn't give you the right to murder anyone (well maybe the rapist).
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
Wrong Daniel.!!! The Govt. is bound to save a life. Why? Just becuase it is the same Govt. who forbids any citizen to save it by himself. Can you imagine a Govt. not forbiddng abortions, but allowing us to use our force to prevent the crime?
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If government sends cops to arrest a murderer , then I dont see how the government can allow abortion.
Jews- listin to this lecture- its great and it talks about society, abortion, and how its linked to Soddom and Gamorah.
http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_wallerstein.html
go all the way down and download. (but please not on Shabb--at.
10/09/07 Parashat Bereshis/Noach - Spiritual DNA Play Download Play Download Listen Download
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
Wrong Daniel.!!! The Govt. is bound to save a life. Why? Just becuase it is the same Govt. who forbids any citizen to save it by himself. Can you imagine a Govt. not forbiddng abortions, but allowing us to use our force to prevent the crime?
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
Wrong Daniel.!!! The Govt. is bound to save a life. Why? Just becuase it is the same Govt. who forbids any citizen to save it by himself. Can you imagine a Govt. not forbiddng abortions, but allowing us to use our force to prevent the crime?
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
No your not.
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
Wrong Daniel.!!! The Govt. is bound to save a life. Why? Just becuase it is the same Govt. who forbids any citizen to save it by himself. Can you imagine a Govt. not forbiddng abortions, but allowing us to use our force to prevent the crime?
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
No your not.
Only in a Nazi fascist regime.
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Of course, why should she keep childe that were "given" to her brutally and in compulsive proceeding.
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Freedom of opinion and speech does not entitle to speak out for murder without punishment. What if a nazi were allowed to speak out for Nazism?
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Freedom of opinion and speech does not entitle to speak out for murder without punishment. What if a nazi were allowed to speak out for Nazism?
First off, you're stating a conclusion in your statement that I don't agree with. I think abortion is morally wrong, but don't think it is the same as murder. Also, even if we were to conclude that abortion is in fact murder, we speak about murdering Muslims and there's nothing illegal about that under the first amendment.
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Of course, why should she keep childe that were "given" to her brutally and in compulsive proceeding.
No one said she has to keep it. As soon as the innocent baby is born she can put it up for adoption. She can't MURDER the baby though, not when its 5 months old in mommy's stomach, or when he is 5 years old, or 15, or 50. MURDER is wrong, and you can't kill someone because they bring you bad memories.
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Of course, why should she keep childe that were "given" to her brutally and in compulsive proceeding.
No one said she has to keep it. As soon as the innocent baby is born she can put it up for adoption. She can't MURDER the baby though, not when its 5 months old in mommy's stomach, or when he is 5 years old, or 15, or 50. MURDER is wrong, and you can't kill someone because they bring you bad memories.
But if she will think it's horrible to feel you have a childe but you don't know him ? What if he is in a horrible family ? How about when the childe look for his past ? etc'.
Why is it murder anyway ?
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Kahane may have been right when he stated that Zionism is not Thomas Jefferson. That may fly in Israel. But this is America where Thomas Jefferson still reigns supreme. So we are all entitled to our opinions and on expressing them.
And with that thought, I bid you all a good shabbos.
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I can't believe that the yes out-votes no at this point, and even that there are this many yes's at all. Abortion is murder unless it is to save the mothers life. Because the potential for life does not supercede life itself.
I don't see why people chose to overlook these facts and logic.
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Kahane may have been right when he stated that Zionism is not Thomas Jefferson. That may fly in Israel. But this is America where Thomas Jefferson still reigns supreme. So we are all entitled to our opinions and on expressing them.
And with that thought, I bid you all a good shabbos.
democracy, or any idea or ..ism isnt above G-d. G-d is the KING, He is the Ruler and He made rules. People and societies which break them eventually get destroyed - ex- Soddom and Gamora.
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I can't believe that the yes out-votes no at this point, and even that there are this many yes's at all. Abortion is murder unless it is to save the mothers life. Because the potential for life does not supercede life itself.
I don't see why people chose to overlook these facts and logic.
Well said!
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When you see that earliest of ultrasounds, or hear that heartbeat, there is no question thats a life.
I would give 9 months of my life to give that child a life, I cant say if I would be able to raise the child, but I would make sure that he or she went to loving parents and a good home.
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No one said she has to keep it. As soon as the innocent baby is born she can put it up for adoption.
Yisrael, but what if there is a war or famine going on, and nobody is willing to adopt a baby? Would she then be obligated to keep the baby and raise it or would she be justified in laying it by the road for someone to find?
I don't have any objection to abortions. It is very clear to me that life begins at birth. I consider myself a person with the absolutely unerring ear for what is moral. I have qualms about situations that no one else gives a second thought to. And yet I have absolutely no qualms about abortions. I listen to myself: no, nothing, everything is quiet. If the Torah were against abortions, I would think that mine is a peculiar case of selective moral deafness. But it does not. As Dannycookie57 says, the case about a woman who miscarries through the fault of someone else, is the case in point. She is owed a fine, which goes to show that a fetus is viewed as a personal property, not a life. I agree with this interpretation.
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Sorry, thats why one should take precautions not to be alone or go somewhere with a guy (not related to you) alone. You dont want your daughters raped? Dont let them go out alone, and be strict on her knowing where she is and with whom, make curfews.
Torah law is Torah law, lets not make new laws - like Soddom and Gomorah.
Tzvi, what' if someone, Gd forbid, breaks into your house..Gd forbid...and everyone is home and subdued...?
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From a Torah perspective, I believe that abortion is only permissible in the situation where the mother's life is in danger. On a governmental level, I believe that the government should stay out of the decision and the process and shouldn't restrict the abortion if the mother chooses to do so. On the other hand, the government should also not fund the abortion as a medical procedure which would only serve to enable more abortions.
Wrong Daniel.!!! The Govt. is bound to save a life. Why? Just becuase it is the same Govt. who forbids any citizen to save it by himself. Can you imagine a Govt. not forbiddng abortions, but allowing us to use our force to prevent the crime?
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
No your not.
Yes he is!
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Of course, why should she keep childe that were "given" to her brutally and in compulsive proceeding.
No one said she has to keep it. As soon as the innocent baby is born she can put it up for adoption. She can't MURDER the baby though, not when its 5 months old in mommy's stomach, or when he is 5 years old, or 15, or 50. MURDER is wrong, and you can't kill someone because they bring you bad memories.
I would be willing to accept that if the unborn child is at a point that even though it is in the womb, if out of it can survive without the mother as equivalent to life...this as a precaution fence.
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I can't believe that the yes out-votes no at this point, and even that there are this many yes's at all. Abortion is murder unless it is to save the mothers life. Because the potential for life does not supercede life itself.
I don't see why people chose to overlook these facts and logic.
Raphael, you are entitled to your views...However, Gd forbid, your wife gets brutally raped..and she doesn't want ot keep the baby...and you'll divorce her unless she goes to full term and gives it up for adoption...and after she does that she divorces your or the rest of your marraige is a bitter marriage you the two of you no longer procreate...How sad! How sad!
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No one said she has to keep it. As soon as the innocent baby is born she can put it up for adoption.
Yisrael, but what if there is a war or famine going on, and nobody is willing to adopt a baby? Would she then be obligated to keep the baby and raise it or would she be justified in laying it by the road for someone to find?
I don't have any objection to abortions. It is very clear to me that life begins at birth. I consider myself a person with the absolutely unerring ear for what is moral. I have qualms about situations that no one else gives a second thought to. And yet I have absolutely no qualms about abortions. I listen to myself: no, nothing, everything is quiet. If the Torah were against abortions, I would think that mine is a peculiar case of selective moral deafness. But it does not. As Dannycookie57 says, the case about a woman who miscarries through the fault of someone else, is the case in point. She is owed a fine, which goes to show that a fetus is viewed as a personal property, not a life. I agree with this interpretation.
Thank you masha and shabbat shalom and to all have a good shabbat and weekend.
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I think this is a difficult question. I don't want to judge in this special case, because I have no answer.
But the left wing pro-choice lobby makes with this special case promotion. Not only for the legalization of abortion, but for the more worse thing, namely the social acceptance. In Germany only three percent of all abortions have a rape or medical background.
We must be carefull, that we step not in the trap of the pro-choice lobby. :-\
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Perhaps someone can add a thrird point to the poll, that reflect my position.
I.e.: Undecided
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First of all, this poll doesn't make it clear what trimester the abortion would occur, so the people who are against abortion in this case I assume are against abortion even in the first month or so.
Calling the abortion of a one-month old fetus a "human being" is against all logic and common sense. A one month old, or even a few month old fetus, is not a human being, therefore it's killing cannot be called murder. Do we look at a miscarriage of a fetus of a few months in the same way as a murder or the tragic death of a living, breathing human being? Murder is the killing of a human being, and at least in the United States, there is a clear understanding of what a human being is. Surely you cannot say that it is just as evil and wrong to abort a two month old fetus as it is to murder one of the members of this forum. It DOES become murder later in the fetus's development, when it is nearing the phase where it could be fully viable outside of the womb. You can call it something else, fetuside, or some other term, but calling it murder is disingenuous and faulty.
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The embryonic heart beats 22 days after conception, this is visible on an ultrasound, at about 6 weeks the heart can be heard through a doppler device....is it a fully formed human?...it doesnt resemble one but has the full 46 chromosomes that make up a human being and a beating heart.
Abortion is legal, and its the womans choice, I certainly felt indifferent about it until I became a mother, now I couldnt imagine having one, unless my own life was in danger.
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The embryonic heart beats 22 days after conception, this is visible on an ultrasound, at about 6 weeks the heart can be heard through a doppler device....is it a fully formed human?...it doesnt resemble one but has the full 46 chromosomes that make up a human being and a beating heart.
Abortion is legal, and its the womans choice, I certainly felt indifferent about it until I became a mother, now I couldnt imagine having one, unless my own life was in danger.
Yes, sure it has some of the essential body parts, but what makes a human being a human being? Is hit having a beating heart, or having chromosomes? Being a full human being in the most basic sense is having a mind that is capable of some thought, the ability to perceive and experience the world, the ability to feel and have human emotions like happiness. Babies who are viable and in the womb are capable of all these things. They kick and sense themselves in the mother's womb and even smile. A two month fetus probably cannot feel, has no functioning brain to speak of, cannot think at all, he probably has no awareness that he even exists. To me, that is not a full human being.
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The embryonic heart beats 22 days after conception, this is visible on an ultrasound, at about 6 weeks the heart can be heard through a doppler device....is it a fully formed human?...it doesnt resemble one but has the full 46 chromosomes that make up a human being and a beating heart.
Abortion is legal, and its the womans choice, I certainly felt indifferent about it until I became a mother, now I couldnt imagine having one, unless my own life was in danger.
Yes, sure it has some of the essential body parts, but what makes a human being a human being? Is hit having a beating heart, or having chromosomes? Being a full human being in the most basic sense is having a mind that is capable of some thought, the ability to perceive and experience the world, the ability to feel and have human emotions like happiness. Babies who are viable and in the womb are capable of all these things. They kick and sense themselves in the mother's womb and even smile. A two month fetus probably cannot feel, has no functioning brain to speak of, cannot think at all, he probably has no awareness that he even exists. To me, that is not a full human being.
True, and it is a womans choice, but fully formed human or not, hearing that babys heartbeat for the first time is amazing, I couldnt simply get rid of it because it may not feel anything, but women are free to do as they please. thats my personal choice not to.
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I am against the pro choice position. But the moral weight of abortion is a difficult question. I think it is an evil crime. But the ill has a lot of nuances. Some people compare the practic of abortion even with the holocaust. I think this is not justifiable. Between no evil and total evil are a couple of steps. I sort the practic of abortion in this scale in the upper part. But there are some worse crimes.
I think one obviously aspect of abortion is the undermining of the worth of human life. Another is the destruction of familie-values.
But in this special case of this thread i am undecided. :-\
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I am wondering how many people here that voted against abortion in the case of rape are parents of a teenage daughter. Well, let me tell you, what I as one think. Yes, not only would I support abortion in this case but if it were my daughter I would hunt down the rapist to the ends of the earth and perform another abortion. As for the laws of my country and the laws of my God, I will deal with those consequences.
As for taking precautions against rape, it can happen anytime, anywhere, even in your home by intruders.
God may forgive the rapist, but I won't. Yes, I am a Christian and know I am not supposed to think this way, but I am also human, and as I said, I will have to suffer the consequences.
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I agree, childbirth is dangerous for young girls and they shouldnt be put through it, besides they arent adults able to make choices like that, there are always special circumstances to the abortion issue.
Id hunt the rapist down and put a bullet in his head then pay the consequences later.
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I agree, childbirth is dangerous for young girls and they shouldnt be put through it, besides they arent adults able to make choices like that, there are always special circumstances to the abortion issue.
Id hunt the rapist down and put a bullet in his head then pay the consequences later.
Nah, I'd rather hear him scream after I push him off a cliff.
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Lol...cliffs... Im afraid of heights, Ill have to improvise, maybe take out his knees and a few other key areas ;) all the while saying oops, sorry Im a bad shot:P...
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Lol...cliffs... Im afraid of heights, Ill have to improvise, maybe take out his knees and a few other key areas ;) all the while saying oops, sorry Im a bad shot:P...
Hah, what a woman O0
I don't know.. I seem to have a thing with throwing savages off of bridges and cliffs. But for our acrophobics, we can use the "Kelly Approach" ;)
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I agree, childbirth is dangerous for young girls and they shouldnt be put through it, besides they arent adults able to make choices like that, there are always special circumstances to the abortion issue.
Id hunt the rapist down and put a bullet in his head then pay the consequences later.
I only thing I would add is before the bullet, make him cut his own twig and berrys off, then shot away O0
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And I would be lying because Im really not a bad shot :laugh:
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I agree, childbirth is dangerous for young girls and they shouldnt be put through it, besides they arent adults able to make choices like that, there are always special circumstances to the abortion issue.
Id hunt the rapist down and put a bullet in his head then pay the consequences later.
I only thing I would add is before the bullet, make him cut his own twig and berrys off, then shot away O0
And I would be lying because Im really not a bad shot :laugh:
Where can you find better women than on the JTF forum?
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And I would be lying because Im really not a bad shot :laugh:
You place the gun squarely between his eyes against the skin, you can't miss. Any way most clips have 14 rounds, ones bound to hit :::D
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conception makes it a human life, the moment when the first cell divides.
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Back off VIto.LOL!LOL
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Back off VIto.LOL!LOL
They're both too old for me Wayne. But I'm no Casanova, so it wouldn't help if they were my age either lol
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Wow ok now don't I feel special :-\ :::D :::D :P
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Wow ok now don't I feel special :-\ :::D :::D :P
Umm... ok, you're not too old.. I'm too young for you ;D
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Wow ok now don't I feel special :-\ :::D :::D :P
Umm... ok, you're not too old.. I'm too young for you ;D
Yes much better ;D :)
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Nobody can tell a rape victim what to do with her body......especially a teenage girl. Childbirth is risky in itselfe. Why should a rape victim face death (even a <1% chance) through no fault of her own.
It's OK to say 9 months out of ones life is not much. For a kid in highschool it is.
A rape victim has already had control of her body taken away once. Society shouldn't do it a second time. The born have more rights than the unborn. That's an established legality.
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Nobody can tell a rape victim what to do with her body......especially a teenage girl. Childbirth is risky in itselfe. Why should a rape victim face death (even a <1% chance) through no fault of her own.
It's OK to say 9 months out of ones life is not much. For a kid in highschool it is.
A rape victim has already had control of her body taken away once. Society shouldn't do it a second time. The born have more rights than the unborn. That's an established legality.
...and it is not a black and white issue! It is a grey area. I admire people who have strong convictions. I really don't know what I would do even though I don't believe in abortion. Each woman is different and should have a choice in that case.
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Hey guys and gals, no one addressed the comments in my previous post so I'll try again.
The morning after pill can be taken up to 72 hours after having sex and works in one of three ways:
from www.morningafterpill.org
- Ovulation is inhibited, meaning the egg will not be released;
- The normal menstrual cycle is altered, delaying ovulation; or
- It can irritate the lining of the uterus so that if the first and second actions fail, and the woman does become pregnant, the human being created will die before he or she can actually attach to the lining of the uterus.
In the case of the first two options, there is no pregnancy so you are not killing an embryo. Sure, you are preventing a pregnancy but then you need to ask yourself whether you agree with the use of contraceptive devices.
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The Morning afterpill is quite often given after the rape kit has been done at the hospital. Problem is 75 % of rapes are never reported.
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Freedom of opinion and speech does not entitle to speak out for murder without punishment. What if a nazi were allowed to speak out for Nazism?
First off, you're stating a conclusion in your statement that I don't agree with. I think abortion is morally wrong, but don't think it is the same as murder. Also, even if we were to conclude that abortion is in fact murder, we speak about murdering Muslims and there's nothing illegal about that under the first amendment.
Those who speak about murdering Muslims, are either talking about sef-defense (Which is not murder), exceution of terrorists (which would be justice, if the trial is right), or are strongly affected by the ctimes SOME Muslims have committed in Eretz Yisrael.
But how can a person debate whether an innocent child has the right to life or not?
It may be legal to speak out for murder in USA, but it's still immoral.
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Nobody can tell a rape victim what to do with her body......especially a teenage girl. Childbirth is risky in itselfe. Why should a rape victim face death (even a <1% chance) through no fault of her own.
It's OK to say 9 months out of ones life is not much. For a kid in highschool it is.
A rape victim has already had control of her body taken away once. Society shouldn't do it a second time. The born have more rights than the unborn. That's an established legality.
Exactly.
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Kahane may have been right when he stated that Zionism is not Thomas Jefferson. That may fly in Israel. But this is America where Thomas Jefferson still reigns supreme. So we are all entitled to our opinions and on expressing them.
And with that thought, I bid you all a good shabbos.
democracy, or any idea or ..ism isnt above G-d. G-d is the KING, He is the Ruler and He made rules. People and societies which break them eventually get destroyed - ex- Soddom and Gamora.
I find it interesting how many times on this forum, statements are made that liberals are very narrowminded and absolutist in their thinking and don't allow for dissent. But here is a blatant counterexample of that claim.
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I agree with newman that mental health has to be considered. Nonetheless, I think generally it should be avoided. If her mental health is so bad then certainly, but if not one cannot excuse an abortion out of inconvenience or other reasons. The only possible excuse for an abortion is the health of the mother
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Kahane may have been right when he stated that Zionism is not Thomas Jefferson. That may fly in Israel. But this is America where Thomas Jefferson still reigns supreme. So we are all entitled to our opinions and on expressing them.
And with that thought, I bid you all a good shabbos.
democracy, or any idea or ..ism isnt above G-d. G-d is the KING, He is the Ruler and He made rules. People and societies which break them eventually get destroyed - ex- Soddom and Gamora.
I find it interesting how many times on this forum, statements are made that liberals are very narrowminded and absolutist in their thinking and don't allow for dissent. But here is a blatant counterexample of that claim.
Your point? You are better then G-d's rules and laws?
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Look, I love Chaim, however, even if Chaim quotes Torah and says the woman must have the baby, that doesn't change my opinion one bit. No way should she be forced to have the baby. No Way!!