JTF.ORG Forum
Israel => Save Israel => Topic started by: david1967 on April 22, 2008, 01:23:45 PM
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Here is the link :
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208870468046&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Jonathan Pollard will soon have a second "Prisoner of Zion" to join him in an American jail. This development is bad sign for American Jews. Most Americans view Jews as being not loyal to the U.S, but to Israel. This development will result in increased anti-semitism and bias against American Jews. This second spying incident will also bring more support to Obama, since Hillary Clinton, being from New York, is viewed as the "pro-Israel" candidate.
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I don't condone it, but with the amount of Muslim sympathizers in America perhaps it is a necessary evil.
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
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WHAT TOOK SO LONG ,I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT HE WAS FINNALY DISCOVERD 22 YRS OR MORE AFTER HIS COLLECTION OF INFORMATION
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
Why should we not have any loyalty to America?
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
Why should we not have any loyalty to America?
Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
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No doubt this will hurt the image of Jews in America....
they caught that chinese spy a couple of weeks ago and nothing really happened with that, though.
Hopefully they'll catch some Iranian spys... or maybe they'll find out that spy is actually our good friend Barack Hussein :::D
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No doubt this will hurt the image of Jews in America....
they caught that chinese spy a couple of weeks ago and nothing really happened with that, though.
Hopefully they'll catch some Iranian spys... or maybe they'll find out that spy is actually our good friend Barack Hussein :::D
SR Yehudi-
You are VERY hopeful, Rub some of that off on me please.
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No doubt this will hurt the image of Jews in America....
they caught that chinese spy a couple of weeks ago and nothing really happened with that, though.
Hopefully they'll catch some Iranian spys... or maybe they'll find out that spy is actually our good friend Barack Hussein :::D
SR Yehudi-
You are VERY hopeful, Rub some of that off on me please.
haha, thanks.... just think of the good possibilities ;)
by the way... I was reading one of the talkbacks on Ynet that said "Dreyfus Affair pt 2!"
I thought it was very interesting actually ^-^
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Genesis 27:29... "Cursed be they that curse thee (Jacob), and blessed be they that bless thee."
If one believes in the bible and cares about the welfare of the United States, it would make sense to be loyalty to Israel. Being disloyal to Israel can only harm the United States. G-d willing, both countries will prosper.
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While spying is treasonous, I highly doubt Israel would use our technology against us. Why would they need our technology anyway? Their technology is almost (if not just) as advanced..
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
Why should we not have any loyalty to America?
Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
I was born in America to a German mother who is Jewish under Halakha, and a father who was born Jewish.
I have always felt America is my home and that I fit in where I live, I don't hate my country nor do I feel the need to abandon it, what I dislike about it is the government and some of the people that reside in this country.
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No one shouldbe loyal to the olmert Govt
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Jews should be loyal to G-d first and foremost, everything else is commentary.
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I just read this news article.
It claims he's arrested, accused of using the same Israeli contact as Jonathan Pollard to pass classified documents in 1985!
It claims that his contact has left the U.S.A. and is back in Israel.
So, is it just me, or does anyone else here find that only today, that the alleged crime supposedly took place twenty-three years ago!...but only today is an opportune time for prosecuting it, and releasing the details to the American public?
Mark my words...the release of this article today is by design and for political reasons; meaning that someone or some entity within government needs this news story as a pretext for silencing American Jews who might otherwise publicly protest the next villainous act against Israel coming down the pipes from the Bush White House.
My guess is that within a week or two Bush will announce with joy and pride, that Jerusalem is to be divided; half turned over to Hamas/PLO, along with all of Judaea, Samaria, Gaza, and that Bush is hereby formally recognizing yet another Terrorist State in the very heart of Jewish Israel!
The "signing ceremony" is most likely to take place on the White House Lawn, attended by all of the Community of International Terror Supporting Dignitaries, because even Bush is smart enough to know that giving Jerusalem to the Nazis/PLO/Hamas is safer if done 6000 miles from the actual murderers he now sides with.
It would seem that our government "sits on" news stories like this "to save for a rainy day" when they're good and ready to betray Israel and the Jews.
But, "maybe it's just me".
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p.s.--Mods and Administrators may as well prepare for the forum to be assaulted from all sides, starting today, as various StørmFrønt Nazis become "new members" this week.
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WHAT TOOK SO LONG ,I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT HE WAS FINNALY DISCOVERD 22 YRS OR MORE AFTER HIS COLLECTION OF INFORMATION
of course it is some idiot plot by some nefarious civil servants
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It appears Bush was thinking of giving Jonathan Pollard a pardon some people did'nt want it.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3534852,00.html
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Jews should be loyal to G-d first and foremost, everything else is commentary.
I agree with you Tzvi, but I think that Israel is very important to g-d himself.
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This latest story is an example of America having it's priorities screwed up and just turning into a shvartza third world Islamic republic. America has millions of hamas supporting mozzies roaming the streets freely and they have decided to go after an old jew. This is a twisted country.
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This latest story is an example of America having it's priorities screwed up and just turning into a shvartza third world Islamic republic. America has millions of hamas supporting mozzies roaming the streets freely and they have decided to go after an old jew. This is a twisted country.
You can't associate every American as supporting muslims. 3rd largest populated country with 302 million people, do you expect everyone to be good little citizens and do what's right? Come on now, being an American isn't all black and white, there are shades of grey and everyone knows that.
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This latest story is an example of America having it's priorities screwed up and just turning into a shvartza third world Islamic republic. America has millions of hamas supporting mozzies roaming the streets freely and they have decided to go after an old jew. This is a twisted country.
You can't associate every American as supporting muslims. 3rd largest populated country with 302 million people, do you expect everyone to be good little citizens and do what's right? Come on now, being an American isn't all black and white, there are shades of grey and everyone knows that.
Mayer, I didn't mean that most Americans support mozzie. I was saying that instead of attacking this old jew, they should start throwing the mozzies the hell out. They should not be concerned with an old jew.
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I was reading more about this story. It is incredible how insane this country is becoming. They welcome in Muslims left and right and persecute this old jewish man. What a joke. Let them start prosecting all the imams.
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eb22: "it would make sense to be loyalty to Israel. Being disloyal to Israel can only harm the United States...."
One should be careful to distinguish between love for Eretz Yisrael as "The Land of Israel", vs "loyalty" to The Israeli Government and its various political figures.
The two are not one and the same.
It is my opinion that while "dual citizenship" is legal for Americans with regards to numerous other countries, "dual and co-equal loyalty" to two sovereign states, each with their own individual agendas and interests, is not possible.
Rabbi Kahane began one of his books with an actual reply from a well-known American Jew, who when asked the question "What would you do if one day you were to wake up and learn that America had declared War on The State of Israel?", offered this as his inane response: "If that were to happen, then I would shoot myself."
Rabbi Kahane then went on to expound on how most American Jews have refused to consider the extent of their support for, and/or loyalty to, The State of Israel, and what the ramifications would be when America would one day inevitably turn against its "ally".
If we were expected to be "loyal" to Olmert, Sharon, & Beilin, then there would be no necessity for Rabbi Meir Kahane, Chaim Ben Pesach, and JTF.
And incidentally, the United States Government has no loyalties, especially when it comes to Jews.
While it often appears that contemporary politics has the U.S.A. and the U.K. in tandem loyalty to each other, an in-depth view of our history shows that we fought not one but two wars against Britain.
Consider the historical example of West Point General Robert E. Lee from Virginia, who when learning that his beloved home state had declared War against the Union led by Washington, had to choose only one side for which to vow his loyalty and for which to fight, knowing full well that by choosing his home State of Virginia he would be forced to eventually fight his best friends and peers from West Point in deadly battle.
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if it was harmful to the United States a harsh punishment would be deserved, but since it's something the US should do anyway, he shouldn't be punished much
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I don't condone it, but with the amount of Muslim sympathizers in America perhaps it is a necessary evil.
Correct, to all the sick leftist self-hating people in America, they consider this barbaric and a crime.
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Here's a little something for all of you who constantly shout "tin foil hats" in derision of anyone suggesting that a conspiracy might be in play somewhere on our planet, courtesy of MassuhD!
Read it and weep, all who scoff at facts:
"...Kadish is charged with one count of conspiring to disclose documents related to the national defense of the United States to the Government of Israel;
one count of conspiring to act as an agent of the Government of Israel;
one count of conspiring to hinder a communication to a law enforcement officer; and one count of conspiring to make a materially false statement to a law enforcement officer..."
source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125950 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125950)
So...it would seem that somebody in Washington believes in conspiracy theories! 8;)
The Federal Government certainly seems to believe in conspiracies, that's for sure! :::D
You'd think that a 83 yr. old retired Jew would have acted alone! :::D
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I don't get it, USA must have own agents in Israel, not counting Olmert and Ramon ::); Everybody is spying on everyone that's old game not the reason to blame the JOOS. Is Shin Bet so competent and eager to inflitrate the right wing Israeli movements unable or unwiling to cath them? Polard shud be exchanged years ago for one of CIA agents. This is signal for US Jews to not protest road map to Harmagedon or else...
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Ultra Requete: "I don't get it"..."This is signal for US Jews to not protest road map to Harmagedon or else..."
You get it just fine.
The same type "shame and embarrassment" tactic was used early on in the Bush W's first term*, to silence and intimidate "the Zionist Lobby" into meekly accepting the insane "Roadmap To Peace in the Middle East"** while Sharon carried out the pogrom against his own people on the orders from Washington.
The Israeli Government uses similar tactics against its own leadership:
Anyone assuming a MK position, or leading a political party, is immediately and constantly tempted to take bribes and do "under the table" deals for personal gain.
The corrupt acts are then "saved in the hard drive's memory" for use against them whenever it suits "those who hold the reins of power" to implement their agendas; which as of late have been agendas to dismantle the State of Israel.
Go back and study the "timing" of Ariel & Omri Sharon's "corruption scandals", and how the pressure was then applied against Sharon to throw the Jews out of their homes in Gaza and leave them homeless and destitute in their own ancestral homeland, with their land and the fruits of their own labor given over to Terrorists, all because of threats to file formal charges and prosecute Sharon and Omri.
It becomes crystal clear that the Judicial System in Israel is owned lock, stock, and barrel, by foreign interests intent on earning obscene financial profits by implementing a "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" in the Middle East.
This is how politics actually works in Israel and other third world dictatorships.
As the old adage goes, "If you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything".
How true and how appropriate in the case of the State of Israel's "secular democracy"--people of Jewish ancestry, who renounce their heritage and history; believing that "through endless negotiations with Nazi Terrorists an eventual "compromise" will be reached which will implement 'peace' ".
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*research back to when the FBI raided the Nationalist Camp's book outlet in New York, confiscating their entire assets and inventory, followed by FBI investigations into AIPAC, all of which made media headlines, exactly to coincide with the "Sharm el-Sheikh Conference" and the introduction of the "Road Map".
**authored by the Saudi leadership and then handed over to Bush as his "marching orders" to implement as U.S. "foreign policy".
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no offense but here there is a double standard if a muslim was accused for spying for lets say turkey everyone here would want him to get killed. not that u dont defend what this jew has done. America has been worse to israel than any other country
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
Why should we not have any loyalty to America?
Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
Essentially, I describe myself as a Jewish American...In Israel, I would call myself a Persian American...because the majority in Israel are Jewish anyway.
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Jews should be loyal to G-d first and foremost, everything else is commentary.
I agree with you Tzvi, but I think that Israel is very important to g-d himself.
What I think matters most to Gd is that we be good people and good Jews..all the rest will follow.
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Jews should have loyalty to any place besides Israel
Why should we not have any loyalty to America?
Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
Essentially, I describe myself as a Jewish American...In Israel, I would call myself a Persian American...because the majority in Israel are Jewish anyway.
I've never really understood that to be honest, I don't hear people refer to themselves as Christian American, Buddhist American, or Muslim American.
When you say Jewish American, it sounds like you are describing Judaism as a race or ethnic background. I simply say I am American and someone of Jewish faith/background if they ask, I don't make it obvious to people though unless they ask.
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shimon: "...no offense but here there is a double standard if a muslim was accused for spying for lets say turkey everyone here would want him to get killed..."
That's not a double standard!
They'll put that 83 year old senile bald headed Jew on the witness stand, with a towel stolen from The Holiday Inn to catch all of his slobber and drool coming out of his mouth, and as soon as he tries to recognize what kind of room he's sitting in, the Judge and Jury will declare a mistrial due to non compos mentis! 8;)
We would want the Muslim sentenced to death for spying, even before his being arrested!
This...we call "The Will of The Lord!" :::D
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no offense but here there is a double standard if a muslim was accused for spying for lets say turkey everyone here would want him to get killed. not that u dont defend what this jew has done. America has been worse to israel than any other country
You mean we shouldn't have a double standard when a Jew does something righteous as opposed to a Muslim Nazi who does something evil? G-D ALSO HAS A DOUBLE STANDARD!
BTW, when an American named Schwartz (not Jewish) was caught spying for Muslim terrorist Saudi Arabia, he was not even prosecuted. NOW THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD!
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Common Shimon, when US cought Polish spy Cpt Zacharsky in eighties he got only 10 years and was soon exchanged despite that Poland was at this point the enemy of USA. Jailing the Spy from Israel the greatest US ally in ME for life and refusing the pardon is in fact double standart and hipocrisy of highest order. BTW Dan You're an Israelite too and this a nation so when they're Italian Americans or Irish Americans they're Jewish Americans too.
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WHAT TOOK SO LONG ,I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT HE WAS FINNALY DISCOVERD 22 YRS OR MORE AFTER HIS COLLECTION OF INFORMATION
That was interesting. I don't think his sentence will be as severe as Pollard's.
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Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
The US and Israel have an agreement to share information. Casper Weinberger, who was the defense secretary at the time, was also a Jew-hater, so he deliberately refused to give important information to Israel. So Weinberger was violating the agreement.
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Well- I believe that if one is born in USA- the first loyalty is to your own nation where you were born.
If you are Jewish, though- I believe that your loyalty is just with both, and you cant help this- it is born IN you.. When I hear the National Anthem, It wells me up, same as when I hear Israel's National Anthem.
The US and Israel have an agreement to share information. Casper Weinberger, who was the defense secretary at the time, was also a Jew-hater, so he deliberately refused to give important information to Israel. So Weinberger was violating the agreement.
RationalThought110 usa first has to look after its national intrest it will share f35 level tech with israel but it will never give israel or any country for that matter the technology behind f22 usa cant share all the tech with israel look what happened usa gave f16 design to israel someonne in the israeli govt gave that design to china now china is producing j10 and selling them to porkistan and iran >:( >:( >:(
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RationalThought110 usa first has to look after its national intrest it will share f35 level tech with israel but it will never give israel or any country for that matter the technology behind f22 usa cant share all the tech with israel look what happened usa gave f16 design to israel someonne in the israeli govt gave that design to china now china is producing j10 and selling them to porkistan and iran >:( >:( >:(
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DON'T ATTEMPT TO SPREAD MISINFORMATION.
Pollard prevented Saddam from having nuclear weapons.
Israel doesn't need technology from the US. And Israel didn't give technology to China, Pakistan or Iran.
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RationalThought110 usa first has to look after its national intrest it will share f35 level tech with israel but it will never give israel or any country for that matter the technology behind f22 usa cant share all the tech with israel look what happened usa gave f16 design to israel someonne in the israeli govt gave that design to china now china is producing j10 and selling them to porkistan and iran >:( >:( >:(
DON'T ATTEMPT TO SPREAD MISINFORMATION.
Pollard prevented Saddam from having nuclear weapons.
Israel doesn't need technology from the US. And Israel didn't give technology to China, Pakistan or Iran.
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Rationalthought first you have to agree with me right now no country in the world can match the technological capability of usa its good to be patriotic but lets be realistic here regarding technology transfer israel wanted to make its own fighter jets lavi which was based of usa f16 plane but due to money constraints israel scrapped the idea and gave the design to china you can google that info now china will sell these planes now named j10 which are based on lavi design to iran so in other words due to short sightedness by the israeli govt israel would be fighting against its own tech
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Again, you're wrong.
And look up the Iran-Contra affair. The US "unoffically" gave weapons to Iran.
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Again, you're wrong.
And look up the Iran-Contra affair. The US "unoffically" gave weapons to Iran.
What did i say wrong and why are you bringing usa-iran affair ??? we all know usa gave f14,cobra,chinook to iran i was only saying israel unintentionally helped iran by giving lavi to china if you dont want to believe this then fine
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BTW, when an American named Schwartz (not Jewish) was caught spying for Muslim terrorist Saudi Arabia, he was not even prosecuted. NOW THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD!
Yes i remember that case because i said to myself a Jewish guy spying for the animal Saudis then i found out he was'nt a Jewish.He got probation or a year
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Even weinberger said in a interview before his death he now realized Pollards sentence was too harsh
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I think one must be careful before accusing of arming enemies etc. from whichever nations one resides especially Israel. As we all know the most morally defunct anti-Jews head Israel as can be compared directly to the un-Protestant/Christian leaders are and have been in place in the America Establisment of power for a very long time. These people are not "Christians" and only by Halacha "Jews" or one could argue "Erav Rav".
If any blame whatsoever must be displayed it must be towards these people heading the respective oligarchies. Funding both sides of wars has gone on for a very, very long time.
There are no "allies" in Geo-Politics but only interests. Hell, the American Establisment (with their British and Canadian co-horts) had armed, aided, funded, trained the building, destruction and rebuilding of all of Americas "enemies" and continue to do so today: Nazi and post Nazi Germany, the Entire Communist Block, the Arab/Muslim World and the "end poverty" of the Turd World.
I'm positive the anti-Jews in Israel have done the same with respect to their Arab/Islamic enemies. If Israel wanted to end this "conflict" it could do so in a week. The fraud war against Hamas is another example... Heck they are doing it now with the so-called Bolestinian Beoble. A question must be why? How much pressure (if any) comes from America and the international Jew haters to keep this fraud of a "conflict" going and the immense propaganda complex of lies of a Bolestinian Beoble and the war on the Jew.
Of course there are many theories but at base, these are internationally minded "elitists" with very little patriotism, appreciation towards their entire history nor any affilition with their ethnic/cultural/religious heritage. This is exactly, in my opinion, comparable to the Fabians running Britain and the Oligarchs of the inner CFR running America...
Did Israel arm its enemies... sure why not.... There are immense profits to be made through War...just ask Rockefeller, Ford, Bush, Clinton etc...etc. etc.. :'(
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Marzutra: "...Did Israel arm its enemies... sure why not.... There are immense profits to be made through War...just ask Rockefeller, Ford, Bush, Clinton etc...etc. etc..
Brother Marzutra has managed to ascertain Truth.
This world in which we live is so cynical, that I can actually envision Olmert & friends sending gifts and letters of thanks to Jimmy Carter for helping to stir up the cowpies again; so that all concerned can make some more money through appeals for donations.
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MarZutra, I agree with you! Couldn't have said it as eloquently as you.
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The question if Israeli goverment had exported some weapons to China in eghties is pointless now as today they feed and provide with fuel and fertilelisers the openly hostile HAMASTAN and directly arm the hipocrite Fatahland. The fact that US, Europe and Russia do the same and worse doesn't atone Olmert and gang.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020815.php#comments