JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Harzel on June 30, 2008, 05:21:23 PM
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We currently have a discussion in our Hebrew forum regarding the cooperation with gentiles (specifically Christians), whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere. And also if there is a religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.
One of our great members from the Hebrew forum wanted especially to ask our Catholic members because he has heard of Evangelist supporters of Israel and I told him there are also Catholics supporters and I mentioned Vito and Masterwolf. He wanted your opinion as to whether Catholism as a religion did not hold antisemitic beliefs as part of its faith such as collective blame of the Jews for crucifying Jesus.
I hope this subject is not going to offend you, it is not the intention. If you like, you can post your opinion here and I would translate and post it in our Hebrew forum.
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Zelhar
"ProJewChristian" is also a Catholic, he posted a topic on this subject.
I am not the wisest on this, BUT I can tell you something... There is this something to be VERY careful of, and I am 100% SERIOUS. There are many that shall come in the name of "Christianity"
-Wolf, Vito, ChristianZionist, and a bunch of others on this forum are 100% for Israel. Probably America first- but not at the price of Gds Holy Land. The Christians on this forum are not frauds- they have been here a long time. I know Wolf would probably lay down his life for Chaim ben Pesach- a REAL Christian is the Jews best friend, but they are DIFFERENT, I personally believe that there are Christians like Corrie TenBooms (who saved Jews in Holland during the Holocaust) but there are few and far between.. My best and closest friend since I was 7, a Catholic--- ~
I use to get beat up a LOT, she was ALWAYS there, she was Catholic- she helped me (besides my Mom and Dad) how to defend myself.. She NEVER pushed her Catholicism on me, EVER. I loved her so much, we were friends for 36 years, around the time she passed, or maybe after, cant remember- I was told to watch this video- she had told me that MANY Christians would be swayed in these very bad times- if you can tolerate this, watch it- listen how they USE the N.Testament, in the "name" of Christianity- Cohen also is VERY WISE about this. Cohen KNOWS that these people are evil and TOTAL frauds. Cohen is one of the smartest young men on this forum, and it would be wise if all would PLEASE watch his vidoes, and learn what he says about this HORRIFYING NAZI movement that is taking place all over the planet- in the name of "Christianity"
here is the link- (Seeing the BACKGROUND alone- is ENOUGH for ANY person to say NO to THIS) NO NO NO NO
***I HATE THIS VIDEO*** turn your speakers off. Just look at what they have as pictures.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i2RyMmX3ipQ&feature=related
(it is HARD to watch, so use DISCRETION) But it is SMART and WISE to KNOW what you are up against. If it were NOT for my Catholic friend, I would NEVER have known what a real Christian was, I MISS HER. :'( 36 yrs. She died at 42 yrs old. Mary was her name.
OH, and BTW- WHEN did the N. Testament EVER tell a person to wear a MASK?
2 legit men wore masks- Zorro
and
the Lone Ranger- BOTH are FAIRYTALE CHARACTERS.
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We currently have a discussion in our Hebrew forum regarding the cooperation with gentiles (specifically Christians), whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere.
You can't know whether anyone's support is sincere, Gentile or Jew. You just have to work with those who are helping, and trust no one completely but God.
And also if there is a religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.
I do believe that there is partly a religious reason for me, in that I believe the Bible clearly states that certain land is meant for the Jews. Also I believe there are blessings for blessing the Jewish nation and curses for cursing it.
There are also secular reasons, of course, such as common decency of not wanting any nation to be subject to genocide. Israel allows Jews to have a place of their own.
One of our great members from the Hebrew forum wanted especially to ask our Catholic members because he has heard of Evangelist supporters of Israel and I told him there are also Catholics supporters and I mentioned Vito and Masterwolf. He wanted your opinion as to whether Catholism as a religion did not hold antisemitic beliefs as part of its faith such as collective blame of the Jews for crucifying Jesus.
I'm not a Catholic but I think that there are these types of anti-Semitic elements among all groups, whether they be Christian or not. Even Jews can be anti-Semitic, sadly enough.
I hope this subject is not going to offend you, it is not the intention. If you like, you can post your opinion here and I would translate and post it in our Hebrew forum.
It's an important topic and it's good that you brought it up.
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If some Gentile supports Israel then you can take it for granted that he/she is sincere in most cases.
In my view this claim is valid no matter what kind of religious background someone has.
It simply has to do with the fact that supporting Israel is not popular in most parts of the world. Why would someone stand with the Jews knowing that he will be attacked almost certainly? One may benefit by complaining about the poor Palestinians but not by defending Jews, sadly.
I don't talk about saying the Jews have a right to exist in their own state. Most (sane) people will agree.
But saying things like no negotiations with Arabs, no land for peace, there are no Palestinians, etc... that will cause much outrage.
I dont really see that some kind of religious background may affect the seriousness of the support, except being muslim.
Nevertheless you're right that especially the Catholic past in Europe was very antisemitic.
Is it a contradiction to defend Israel and have a Catholic background at the same time? Not if you've left behind the antisemitism of the Catholic church.
Given the biased media coverage falling in love with Israel doesn't happen automatically.
Being German the lessons in school dealing with the holocaust gave me the conviction never again, but it didnt give me the deep affection I have now. I got it by investigating things by myself.
Looking at the facts and history of the Arab/Israeli conflict I realized that it is the only rational decision to side with Israel.
Instead of compromising the support for Israel my Christian background boosted it.
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I support the Jews because the Bible commands it, because of religious reason (i.e. the change I underwent mentally when I became a Christian), and because of common sense when observing world facts--it is just logical.
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I support the Jews because the Bible commands it, because of religious reason (i.e. the change I underwent mentally when I became a Christian), and because of common sense when observing world facts--it is just logical.
I agree with CF
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very simple Zelhar
I would think that all christians want us to believe in jesus.. And believe that we will when jesus comes
We believe that when moshiach comes, all people, christians, buddists, muslims, will abandon their non torah beliefs, and see the truth of the torah.
Our beliefs don't affect each other.
I doubt many christians here believe all jews are going ot hell for not believing in jesus, but many christians do believe that. That is their belief. It doesn't affect me.
Neturei karta can talk to muslims and admit that they believe that when moshiach comes, and the exile is ended, moshiach will be king of israel, the jewish people will return there and rule there. It doesn't affect the muslims, because for neturei karta, it's a miraculous thing. Not by force.
Christians that try to evangelise jews, cannot be accepted.. But the christians here do not.
So that's fine.
You find out soon enough if they are trying to evangelise!
JTF is not telling christians to come to israel.
And the christians here do not want to come.
They recognise that it's the land for the jewish people.
So israelis don't have to worry about christians here evangelising. When it has happened, the members were banned. And it wouldn't happen in israel because christians of JTF are not even aiming at living in israel.
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I support Israel and the Jews for religious reasons. I have no interest in pushing Christianity on them if that's what you're asking. G-d commands that I support the Jews. You have to remember something Zelhar, the NT does NOT omit the OT (Tanach) .
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I am a Christian as you all know. Yes, of course all Christians want the entire world to believe in Jesus. The term missionizing/evangelizing has become one of the most misunderstood terms because of the actions of some Christians calling themselves as missionaries. Missionizing/evanglizing in the Christian scriptures means tellinging the Christian message to someone who has never heard about that. Nowadays most of the Jews and (in my understanding) all of the Jews in this forum know very well what the Christian message is. Some of the Jews in this forum are very well versed in NT verses than an average Christian. Therefore it is stupid to announce the Christian message again and again. I warned some of the Christian posters via PM, e-mail and directly about the futility of preaching Christianity to those who already know the message. Well, now someone might ask me how would I disobey the command of our Bible to evangelize the entire world and still remain a true Christian. The answer is, we can evangelize everyone but we cannot CONVERT anyone by ourselves. Genuine conversion in Christianity is an act of Ruach HaKodesh. Ruach HaKodesh invades a person and reconciles him/her with God. Other forms of conversions are fake. For example most of the reported conversions by missionary groups who distribute pamplets to Jews in street corners are fake and does not bring glory to Christianity. Missionaries who target Jews with their pamphlets are taking the role of Ruach HaKodesh. I totally disagree with anyone who target Jews or any other particular people group for conversion. Becoming a Christian is purely an act of God and it is totally between God and that individual.
Okay, now having declared that I cannot convert anyone you might ask why would I want to support Israel? Well, most of you know the answer already. Christian eschatology (study of end time events) is 100% based on the formation of the state of Israel and all Jews must be gathered back to the nation of Israel before the Messiah comes (who in Christianity as all of you know, is none other than Jesus). So it is necessary for me to support the existence and expansion of the state of Israel. There are no Israeli Arabs. In Christianity the word Holy does not necessarily mean perfect or pure. It means set apart and santified unto God. So the term Holy land means a land that has been set apart for God's chosen people, the Jews. Gentiles do not belong to the land of Israel and it is against God's will for a Gentile to live in the nation of Israel.
There are two more reasons why I would like to support the nation of Israel.
a) Jews have made disproportionate contributions to Science, Engineering and Technology compared to their population and the amount of persecution they had endured through out centuries.
b) Muslims had stolen the lands of many different cultures and converted them to Islam. Israel is a living testimony that stolen lands can be taken back from the muslims. It is an inspiration to the entire civilized world.
We have a lot of theological differences in the areas of original sin, concept of hell, existence of satan, atonement etc., But if we magnify our differences that will enable evil forces like Islam and communism to prosper.
As Chaim used to say one day one these two great faiths (Judaism & Christianity) will be proven right.
Let us all hope and pray so that the Messiah comes soon to deliver all us from this evil world. I cannot wait to see that glorious day!
I am not a Catholic, my beliefs are similar to those of Pat Robertson's!
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I am a Christian as you all know. Yes, of course all Christians want the entire world to believe in Jesus. The term missionizing/evangelizing has become one of the most misunderstood terms because of the actions of some Christians calling themselves as missionaries. Missionizing/evanglizing in the Christian scriptures means tellinging the Christian message to someone who has never heard about that. Nowadays most of the Jews and (in my understanding) all of the Jews in this forum know very well what the Christian message is. Some of the Jews in this forum are very well versed in NT verses than an average Christian. Therefore it is stupid to announce the Christian message again and again. I warned some of the Christian posters via PM, e-mail and directly about the futility of preaching Christianity to those who already know the message. Well, now someone might ask me how would I disobey the command of our Bible to evangelize the entire world and still remain a true Christian. The answer is, we can evangelize everyone but we cannot CONVERT anyone by ourselves. Genuine conversion in Christianity is an act of Ruach HaKodesh. Ruach HaKodesh invades a person and reconciles him/her with G-d. Other forms of conversions are fake. For example most of the reported conversions by missionary groups who distribute pamplets to Jews in street corners are fake and does not bring glory to Christianity. Missionaries who target Jews with their pamphlets are taking the role of Ruach HaKodesh. I totally disagree with anyone who target Jews or any other particular people group for conversion. Becoming a Christian is purely an act of G-d and it is totally between G-d and that individual.
Okay, now having declared that I cannot convert anyone you might ask why would I want to support Israel? Well, most of you know the answer already. Christian eschatology (study of end time events) is 100% based on the formation of the state of Israel and all Jews must be gathered back to the nation of Israel before the Messiah comes (who in Christianity as all of you know, is none other than Jesus). So it is necessary for me to support the existence and expansion of the state of Israel. There are no Israeli Arabs. In Christianity the word Holy does not necessarily mean perfect or pure. It means set apart and santified unto G-d. So the term Holy land means a land that has been set apart for G-d's chosen people, the Jews. Gentiles do not belong to the land of Israel and it is against G-d's will for a Gentile to live in the nation of Israel.
There are two more reasons why I would like to support the nation of Israel.
a) Jews have made disproportionate contributions to Science, Engineering and Technology compared to their population and the amount of persecution they had endured through out centuries.
b) Muslims had stolen the lands of many different cultures and converted them to Islam. Israel is a living testimony that stolen lands can be taken back from the muslims. It is an inspiration to the entire civilized world.
We have a lot of theological differences in the areas of original sin, concept of hell, existence of satan, atonement etc., But if we magnify our differences that will enable evil forces like Islam and communism to prosper.
As Chaim used to say one day one these two great faiths (Judaism & Christianity) will be proven right.
Let us all hope and pray so that the Messiah comes soon to deliver all us from this evil world. I cannot wait to see that glorious day!
I am not a Catholic, my beliefs are similar to those of Pat Robertson's!
This should have my applause. O0
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i can't speak for the catholic laity out there especially in america... many of them for generations now have been the most tolerant toward jews of any catholics in history... but the church remains vile and evil as always... and wishes to holocaust jews yet again as soon as possible though the last few popes have presented a conciliatory posture towards jews, israel and torah... however it is not sincere as it is really just a ploy to get us to drop our guard... the easier to finish us off... plus they do not have to bare their fangs and claws at us right now... due to the fact that they have hired the muslim hordes to serve as their shock troops to kill us... all the while pretending to be sorry for our current state of siege, mutilation and death... while from cover rejoicing all along that their little gambit is working since the entire world believes that all the jew-hatred stems exclusively from the muslim world today and not from either of the two main christian components catholicism or protestantism... and so the church holds up its hands and says... "see no blood of jews on them anymore..." esav is like the pig our sages instruct us... he has split hooves but does not chew his cud... so he is not kosher...but he holds out his paws that look kosher and he promotes this lie and promulgates it in the world... getting everyone to believe it's the truth... that he is righteous...but it's all a huge lie... a total fraud and a ruse pulled over our eyes... pure unadulterated deception... because the truth of it all is that esav/rome/vatican are responsible for all of the jewish blood spilled over the last 500-1000 years... and also that of a huge chunk of humanity in general...
but don't take my word for it... get these three books... and see for yourself... "vatican assassins" by eric jon phelps.... "the grand design exposed" by john daniel and "2 babylons" by rev. alexander hislop... this last one proves that the church has never been christian or monotheistic but is hiding away at its core the ancient cult system begun by nimrod and taken over by esav after he killed nimrod... known to history as the babylonian/egyptian mystery cults... worshipping nimrod and his mother/wife seramis (now called jesus and mary) but having many varied names over the centuries throughout the greek and roman empires... the form their pagan worship takes is worship of the sun and the "queen of heaven" see jeremiah and 2kings... and they also observe the ancient moloch rites and rituals...
i'm sorry to say that this is the truth but i call 'em the way i see 'em... i truly wish it weren't so... but as chazal (our sages) teach us... "esav soneh et yakov halacha hi..." "the hatred esav harbors and maintains for his brother yakov is a fact of life... a veritable law of nature in its own right..." and this is all EMET L'AMITA!!! (absolute torah truth)... nik. out...
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I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.
I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.
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Nikmatdam, as interesting as your theories often are, your anti-Catholic diatribes are getting old. I don't agree with a lot that the RCC does, but it's just nonsense to claim that they are rooted in paganism. This is just peoples' wild imaginations. These are not productive posts and they just alienate Catholic members.
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you have no idea what you are talking about c.f. if you would only take a look at the book "2 babylons" for even five minutes you would see how serious these charges all are... you just can't wish this all away... this guy wrote this back in 1853... long before "conspiracy lunatics" like moi roamed the land... you just have no flippin' idea man... none!!! nik.
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Hello Hebrew forum!
Thanks for the questions.
First of all : It is very good you Jews want to stay Jews, and go back to youir homeland, because you are safer as a majority in your own land than a minority in exile.
Political/economical/military/cultural/religious cooperation is neccesary and possible. It is not a good idea to turn Israel into another North-Korea. Of course, you need to keep your sovereignity. You need to find a balance here between the 2 extremes.
whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere
Help is welcome, but it is impossible to know whether somebody is sincere. If you Israeli don't want to fight yourselves, to keep your country, than for sure you'll loose it, and new Holocausts might happen. Don't count on others to protect you! I don't count on Jews to protect my country neither. But helping others is good.
religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.
G-d = Hashem = Allah... or isn't it ?
The politics of the Vatican and the Pope seems to be less anti-Jewish since WWII.
I think the vast majority of European Catholics are mildly anti-"Nazi" "apartheid" Israel, and pro-"Islam the religion of Peace "" palestine"
I respect Judaism. As I do respect almost every other religion.
Islam is at war since 1400 years with both Christians and Jews. Do not forget, we religious people are at war with anti-religious people too. Some "agnostici" or "atheists" however, are of a higher moral standard, then "so-called pietous" people. I believe, when we die, G-d will judge us. I'll find it out in a couple of decades what He thinks of me.
The Catholic religion is almost dead in West-Europe. The Church was a dominant factor until 1960, from then, West-Europe became secular/communist.
It will become a third-world dominated religion, and Islam will be the major religion in Europe.
Unless we stop them ... by making more babies then them, G-d willing.
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I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.
I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.
such as Martin Luther
you mean martin luther king
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I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.
I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.
such as Martin Luther
you mean martin luther king
No, not that black "hero"...
Martin Luther, check it on google. Lutheranism. It's a Church...
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I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.
I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.
such as Martin Luther
you mean martin luther king
No, not that black "hero"...
Martin Luther, check it on google. Lutheranism. It's a Church...
Yes i know but king as well ;D
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I really like Jewish culture. Specially the kitchen and the music ;D
I believe in the unbroken covenant of Abraham, Isaak and Jakob.
I don't believe in proselytization at all, because I believe in the teaching of Calvin, that the private call comes directly from G-d. Toviah Singer has mentioned this in one of his lessons against proselytization of Jews too. He knows really a lot about Calvinist theology.
In addition to that is from a cultural point of view Christianity today in very bad shape. I think Christians should concentrate their efforts to themselve first, then to their family and their church community. We have to correct ourselves. To direct our cultural and religious power to outside makes not really sense.
I think, that Jews have suffered enough after nearly 2000 years and they deserve an own home, where they can be Jewish with pride and without fear.
But the main point, why I am in JTF is self-interest. In my oppinion is this the hard point. Call me selfish, but it's the truth.
A strong and great Israel will break the waves of Muslimes, which are flooding against the Western World in order to destroy our economic freedom, personal freedom and religious freedom.
Also we have a real leader with great experience and without fear, who is able to reach his goals.
To be honest: JTF is the first organization, I know, who is righteous and able to change things. O0
Ulli
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What great posts you sent guys :)
Here is what I think-
I think people should be good and rational. It is not always possible to know what is good or rational but usually it only takes a little common sense to see the plain truth. Irrational people are dead people, they are prayed upon by the evil people. Rational and evil people are like Nazis, they have no moral compass so ultimately they seek to destroy everything the don't agree with.
I think good and rational people should help each other, it should make sense. It doesn't matter what one belief is, as long as one doesn't try to force or to deceive others into his beliefs. This is all that it takes to enable true cooperation between very different people with very different belief systems.
Of course things are not that simple in reality because very rarely do the mouth truly reflects the mind. And there should also be self interest involved, since everyone has motives.
More particularly regarding religion- a sensible person can only hold revered at most one religion, and so every other religion is wrong for him. However a good person must also accept difference of opinions, and of religions. Clearly no one wants to be forced into another ones way of thinking just because the other is mightier than him, and so symmetrically no one should force another, weaker than him, to hold his thoughts and beliefs.
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there's yet another way to prove i'm right... but you have to find a way to download this book and post it here... it is by rav avraham sutton and it is called "sacred technology... and the return to eden..." maybe it's on-line at his website... www.geulah.org
in this sefer he makes the case for satan's hordes of lost souls who have taken up with him and turned evil (to the darkside of the force... against the light) that they have no real power of their own... but suck off power from good souls who sin... and you can always tell who they are in the world because they are the murderers... always using this device to gain and extend their power and control... always certain they are getting away with it and that G-d does not see or have the ability to stop them or bring them to account... their goal is always to enslave and try and take over and dominate the entire world...
and all of this describes to a tee... nimrod and his cult... amalek from esav and yishmael (islam)... and it also exactly represents what the greek and roman empires were all about and of course what the vatican church has always done to mankind down thru history on the earth... esav=edom=rome=vatican all in the employ of satan... and willingly so... the one main overriding mida (characteristic) of all these slime from ancient times leading down to this very day is that they all want one thing and only one thing and they demand this as their "gods-given-right" (sick)... they want to own you... all of you without exception and forever... hamaven yaven... but the rest of you will just have to be turned into lampshades again before you get it... too bad... nik. out...
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היהדים ז חברים שלים O0
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If you read the Bible it tells you to support Israel, both OT and NT.
My God is the God of Israel.
The Bible says the Palestinians have no inheritance.
I visit Israel every year.
And if you took all religion totally out of the picture, I would still support Israel because it would be the RIGHT thing to do.
And if you doubt my sincerity, the attached picture shows the decals proudly and prominently displayed on my truck. They are not magnetic, they are decals and they won't easily come off. There is not a day goes by that I don't have to contend with someone's negative comment or gesture. I love my God and I love Israel.
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Zelhar,
I'm Catholic. I believe that Pope John Paul set the record straight stating that antisemitism is a sin and that the Jewish people should not be blamed for the death of Jesus. Actually if I'm not mistaken, in the Catholic faith, Jesus's death is blamed on the sins of ALL people whether christian or not.
I don't really see antisemitism in the Gospels. There is one line where Jesus says that the pharisees are of "their father the devil." But this is not to say that ALL Jews are devils. It is obvious from the passage that Jesus directed that line to the Pharisees of that time NOT to the Jewish people. This is a great thread. If I can be of any further help let me know.
I personally believe in helping Israel because I believe that it's the right thing to do. Not necessarily that it is a religious cause for me (although that is also a reason). Jews have been in Israel for thosands of years and all these erroneous stories about Jews "just coming from Europe" to take over the Holy Land is simply nonsense.
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Zelhar,
I'm Catholic. I believe that Pope John Paul set the record straight stating that antisemitism is a sin and that the Jewish people should not be blamed for the death of Jesus. Actually if I'm not mistaken, in the Catholic faith, Jesus's death is blamed on the sins of ALL people whether christian or not.
I don't really see antisemitism in the Gospels. There is one line where Jesus says that the pharisees are of "their father the devil." But this is not to say that ALL Jews are devils. It is obvious from the passage that Jesus directed that line to the Pharisees of that time NOT to the Jewish people. This is a great thread. If I can be of any further help let me know.
I personally believe in helping Israel because I believe that it's the right thing to do. Not necessarily that it is a religious cause for me (although that is also a reason). Jews have been in Israel for thosands of years and all these erroneous stories about Jews "just coming from Europe" to take over the Holy Land is simply nonsense.
I have to agree with IZ i am also a Catholic and I dont see antisemitism in the church or in the Bible.
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Zelhar,
I'm Catholic. I believe that Pope John Paul set the record straight stating that antisemitism is a sin and that the Jewish people should not be blamed for the death of Jesus. Actually if I'm not mistaken, in the Catholic faith, Jesus's death is blamed on the sins of ALL people whether christian or not.
I don't really see antisemitism in the Gospels. There is one line where Jesus says that the pharisees are of "their father the devil." But this is not to say that ALL Jews are devils. It is obvious from the passage that Jesus directed that line to the Pharisees of that time NOT to the Jewish people. This is a great thread. If I can be of any further help let me know.
I personally believe in helping Israel because I believe that it's the right thing to do. Not necessarily that it is a religious cause for me (although that is also a reason). Jews have been in Israel for thosands of years and all these erroneous stories about Jews "just coming from Europe" to take over the Holy Land is simply nonsense.
I have to agree with IZ i am also a Catholic and I dont see antisemitism in the church or in the Bible.
There are a lot of rebukes for the Jews even in the Tanach (OT).
In the Torah G-d wanted to kill all Israel except the family of Moses
In the book of Judges we see repeated rebukes of Jews
Prophet Jeremiah urged the Jews to surrender to the invading armies but he was called as a heretic and they threw him into a pit.
Micah (chapter 3:1-12) and Hosea (chapter 8:1-14), in which these prophets condemned the Jews "who abhor justice and pervert all equity’" and who "build Zion with blood and Jerusalem with wrong".
However these "attacks" on the Jews do not make the Tanach anti-semitic. Any loving Father corrects his children. Israel is loved by G-d and G-d has been chastising them through out the history.
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good point.
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And if you doubt my sincerity, the attached picture shows the decals proudly and prominently displayed on my truck. They are not magnetic, they are decals and they won't easily come off. There is not a day goes by that I don't have to contend with someone's negative comment or gesture. I love my G-d and I love Israel.
As Napoleon would say, "Flippin' sweet!" O0
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And if you doubt my sincerity, the attached picture shows the decals proudly and prominently displayed on my truck. They are not magnetic, they are decals and they won't easily come off. There is not a day goes by that I don't have to contend with someone's negative comment or gesture. I love my G-d and I love Israel.
As Napoleon would say, "Flippin' sweet!" O0
Seconded, those are some awesome decals!
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Shamgar, what a great decal! You are brave to have that on your truck. O0
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the last two popes are sweet-talkin' us in order to get har habayit away from us... a leopard does not change his spots... and these cats have no intention of ever doing so... but they know we are so starved for a little goyish love that we will fall all over ourselves to come and git some... we are saps... plain and simple... no fool like an old fool... and we take the cake for falling for the oldest trick in the book... we will live to regret our stupidity... G-d forfend... G-d save us... nik.
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nikmatdam, the are many Catholics who participate in this forum. Your comments cause dissent. I hope that people realize that that your opinions are only yours and are not shared by other Jews who write to this forum.
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these are not mere opinions these are documented facts... a matter such as this is either true or false... opinion has nothing to do with this type of claim... either they are or are not duping us... opinions do not enter into the equation of this kind of discussion... proof is what one must have here not viewpoints... and i have proof from the books i've quoted... the research i've done and the reports of barry chamish on his interviews and discoveries on this matter...
if you wish to claim that a church which murdered our people for upwards of 1700 years including the directing from behind the scenes of the holocaustal genocide of our people in a thoroughly nazified europe during ww2... and who likewise participated in a massive cover-up of said crimes against humanity in the aftermath of the war and who further were found complicit and guilty of helping facilitate the escape of tens of thousands of nazi war criminals plus enabling them to abscond with and make off with the bitter poisonous fruits of their looting of the blood-stained money of european jewry... (as fully and irrefutably DOCUMENTED... in "the secret war against the jews" and in "the unholy trinity" both by john loftus and mark aarons)...
if you wish to conclude that these vile slime have now all of a sudden changed their attitude and disposition towards us virtually overnight in just the space of the last 40 or so years... you go right ahead and believe in such a fantasy if you care to... but don't bring YOUR cruel joke of an opinion and childish naivete into this subject matter which can so easily be refuted and which has been so repeatedly demonstrated to me by the research i have done (which so many of you refuse to do)... as to render your view to be an absolutely untenable and indefensible position and one that is also patently false... so don't introduce any of this rot here unless YOU can bring hard evidence of their sincere regret and remorse... otherwise even if i had no proof of any kind (which is not the case here since i have overwhelming evidence and testimony of their true character and ploy here)... but even if i didn't have this... still it is incumbent upon YOU and not me to show just cause why they should be believed... why we should take them at their word that they have really changed and in doing so truly desire to make amends and restitution for all of the blood they have shed of our people and pay reparations as compensation for all the wealth they have plundered from our G-d-given resources... talk is so utterly cheap and is so glib and such an easy thing to do... especially while their actions over the course of history speak volumes... loud and clear... and thus the burden of proof is squarely upon you... since i have the undeniable tragic record and the heavy weight of the history of their DEEDS on my side... (this besides all the evidence to the contrary of their supposed change of heart concerning us that is in my possession which ultimately illustrates that they have not transformed themselves into our friend... not even one iota)... nik. out...
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First there's Bible with commandments to bless Jews or to be cursed and unbroken Abrahamic convenent which gives the land of Canaan to Israel. that's the fundament the rest are interpretations; I belive my is right and ortodox but I respect the rights of others to have their own. To evangelising first you have read the scriptures in original languages for ex "church" is not intitution, chierarhy or even comonwealth but "eclesia" the chosen ones... Chosen by G-d so the proletisng is wothless without His action. As pheasant stated the christains must first live christain, holy life to impress the others.
Of course they're many reasons outside religion to be zionist, that's why we have hindu, sikh or atheist members too. Fiorst thing it's the real history of ME which is not tought in schools or showed by MSM: the fact that Jordan is Palestine and it was first intended to be part of future Jewish national homeland, That Grand Mufti of Jerusalem the Hitlers friend and active colaboratour in Holocaust was founder of PLO and mentor to Arafat etc... the A-rab pogroms in Hebron decades before "naqba" or 1967 war.... The zionist couse is simply historicly true and moraly right the Jews desserve to have state for themselfs only and pals are fakes.
And last the more selfish reasons beside what golden and ambroix said, the creation of Jewish religius state in Israel can create the antidotum to both islamic invasion and communist rot, the Israel can be indeed light to all nations if they all embrace zionism and Torah and leave marxist heresy.... I'm all for Jewish theocracy in Israel alla Rabbi Kachane.
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thank you ultra for your support... G-d bless you and keep you... nik.
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thank you ultra for your support... G-d bless you and keep you... nik.
nikmatdam,
Is there any evidence that Pope John Paul was antisemitic? I don't know. I haven't seen any?
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Here's an 1 hour video which shows the situation from the evangelical Christians' point of view.
It also deals with antisemitism of the catholic church.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OoQqr6Baqt8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sYnxJu4L2kQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mo4vX5y8H_8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6geNMwloVBc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DzLap99voy0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GrdDfEaRMIE
In addition I want so say that there are also selfish reasons for supporting Israel, since the fate of the Jewish state might also be the fate of the rest of the world.
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i have seen a report from barry chamish i believe detailing his involvement as a young man working in a factory producing zyclon-b... my point is when these people want to they hide well their true feelings... and they have been doing so for centuries... on the other hand i have also heard that he had wanted to marry and was in love with a polish-jewish girl... i don't know if this is true... as the story goes they had a son... nik.
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The Catholic Church is not hiding anything. Vatican officials are openly involved in the peace process, and I condemn this. But there is not some secret plot going on. Nik, these comments are not productive and there isn't any basis for them. You can attack the RCC's role in the "peace process" without resorting to wild conspiracies.
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And if you doubt my sincerity, the attached picture shows the decals proudly and prominently displayed on my truck. They are not magnetic, they are decals and they won't easily come off. There is not a day goes by that I don't have to contend with someone's negative comment or gesture. I love my G-d and I love Israel.
As Napoleon would say, "Flippin' sweet!" O0
Seconded, those are some awesome decals!
That's definitely cool! Also an interesting experiment, I mean how people react to the logo.
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ok... when i return i'll post barry;s findings documenting the vatican plot to remove us from yerushalayim and har habayit... you asked for it... so now your going to get it... nik. in a huff... out...
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@Nikmatdam:
No one here denied what Catholics did in the past, and this is not the subject of this discussion. You basically claim that the Catholics actually have some hidden sinister belief. Your 'research' is apparently based not on the official Christian theology such as the OT and NT, rather on conspiracy books including the insane Barry Chamish whose credibility is bellow zero. You quote no facts from your research nor bring anything from these books which you encourage us to read, knowing that we are not going to waste our time reading them.
If there was any truth to what you said you could bring substantial argument supporting your claim rather then refer us to natty books which themselves are probably just loaded with the same type of insubstantial arguments.
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ok... when i return i'll post barry;s findings documenting the vatican plot to remove us from yerushalayim and har habayit... you asked for it... so now your going to get it... nik. in a huff... out...
Yes Please do that.
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.
As I've said, I have never had anything against Jews, and in fact, I very much admire them. They have been nothing but kind to me on this board.
I have no desire to try to 'convert' anyone.
Common sense dictates that we must work together to save American/Israel from this monster, Obama.
You must learn to trust us gentiles by our deeds and not try paint us all with one broad brush stroke.
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I want to thank all our posters, so- thank you :). I have posted several of your posts in the Hebrew forum and I will continue transposting further the following days. You also get a warm thanks from our Hebrew members, and they say kudos to you!
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to answer my critics here... the pope position is irrelevant... they are powerless... they are mere figureheads and puppets... the real power of the vatican... just like the presidency in the u.s. and the prime ministership of britain... the real power running all these is the jesuit general... here take a look... he runs the world and the elite families and milit. and wealthy class take orders from him... and so does the pope or he gets axed... really given smelling-salts which were laced with cyanide... like jp1 after a month in office... or poisoned tea like sharon after gaza was done accord. to orders but he refused to neg. giving jerus. over to the vatican... and so he's now a vegetable and a vatican priest after 7 or so years in jerus. left the day after sharon's second stroke... i'll get you the details from barry next... nik. out...
interview below with the author of "vatican assassins" eric jon phelps...
Note: The following article is from the May 2000 issue of The SPECTRUM Newspaper. Public use of this article is permitted as long as origin of the article and contacting information for The SPECTRUM accompanies the article. Contacting information for The SPECTRUM is as follows: Website: http://www.thespectrumnews.org/
E-mail address: [email protected]
Telephone: 1(877) 280-2866 toll-free (US & Canada) 1(661) 823-9696 (All others)
Regular mail: 9101 West Sahara Ave., PMB158, Las Vegas, NV 89117
The Most Powerful Man In The World?
The "Black" Pope
Count Hans Kolvenbach—The Jesuit’s General
4/15/00 RICK MARTIN
So, you thought you were pretty well informed by now about all of the main players on the "conspiracy" playing field? You’ve maybe been hearing for years about (or bumped into on your own) the various elements of society who control our world from behind the scenes.
You’ve gotten familiar with the role played by, for instance, the Khazarian Zionists (who invented the word "Jew" to disguise their adopted heritage, as distinguished from the biblical Judeans), or the role played by the Banksters (banking gangsters) controlling the economies of the world, by the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, the Committee of 300 (the 17 wealthiest so-called "elite" families)—the Rothschild's in England and Rockefellers in America and Bronfman's in Canada, and on and on, comprising the physical power structure of the New World Order puppets under the direction of darkly motivated, other-dimensional "master deceivers" commonly known as Lucifer or Satan and their "fallen angel" cohorts.
While all of those details contribute to understanding the Larger Picture, what you are about to read fills in a most important Missing Link in this entire structure. And I don’t mean a little side issue; I mean a link so central—yet so well hidden from general public view, and for so long—that even the most studied of "conspiracy theory" scholars probably have not put together much of the information that is going to be presented here.
To call the following outlay "controversial" and "sensitive" is about as mild an understatement of the truth of the matter as can be made! This missing link changes the entire slant of the entire playing field!
After months of anticipation and weeks of preparation, I was finally able to speak with Vatican Assassins author Eric Jon Phelps on Tuesday, March 14. There was simply no other way to cover Eric’s historic masterpiece spanning, literally, five centuries, than to just ask questions covering huge spans of time and major historical events. It took us almost four hours to accomplish the task, yet we could easily have gone on for another forty.
We here at The SPECTRUM are simply unwilling to reduce the importance of this work by presenting it in a too distilled fashion. In fact, in order to share this material with at least some of the pertinent backup, Eric has granted us permission to print (directly after the interview) several excerpts from his soon-to-be-published book which will help you in understanding certain aspects of this magnificently important and broad-sweeping story. The missing link is surely a central link.
Let’s call this story the "Jesuit-Vatican connection" to the unfolding New World Order agenda. You make up your own mind just how absolutely central, yet well hidden, has been this link! There’s a good reason the secret Vatican library is so extensive and yet remains so intact from outside intrusion, despite the many others who would like to possess such a collection of information detailing much "censored" data about our true, otherworldly cultural heritage.
When one reads a work like Vatican Assassins, one can’t help but reflect back on the purposely "adjusted" and watered down and boring moments in high school history class. Meanwhile, the true history of what has gone on is dynamic and full of calculated intrigue.
In this business, I’ve heard and read a lot of things. But when I had to pick my jaw up off the floor during the reading of certain historical portions in Eric’s book—well, let me just say that Truth certainly is stranger, and far more interesting, than the many fictions we’ve been led to believe are historical fact. And yet The Truth does fit together like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.
This book SHOULD be a best-seller, but it is hardly likely to achieve such general attention—considering how well controlled and censored is the publishing business. Thus is the reason for our lengthy presentation of this most astonishing and critically important material here in The SPECTRUM.
We are in a time of Truth being revealed from all directions. And there is probably no more fundamental, mind-rattling, and previous notions-shattering example of that than what is being presented here. The interview is directly followed by a number of pertinent excerpts from Eric’s eye-opening book—which will be available July 1.
[Editor’s note: It should be noted up-front that the information presented below is the studied opinion of Eric Jon Phelps. We here at The SPECTRUM find much about his presentation of his historical research which meshes with and expands upon Truth which has been presented by many other authors in these pages and elsewhere. And that is good; Truth is Truth is Truth, and should all mesh.
However, for the peace of mind of our unique readership—which typically has cultivated a more aware spiritual perspective than the general public—we do not want to give the impression that we agree with (or wish to promote) some collateral aspects of Eric’s presentation having to do with his personal "religious" convictions. The focus of those convictions follows a much more biblically conventional (literal) path—in stark contrast to the unconventional, questioning, wide-angle vision of his historical material.
Generally such opinions are simply allowed to stand on their own—for you to sort and interpret as you see fit—rather than being singled-out to be addressed editorially. However, in this case, the practical side of Eric’s stated religious convictions include the condoning of some degree of violence (or violent protest) and use of armaments. And such convictions are very much the opposite of our philosophical position—for many reasons, not the least of which is the obvious Adversarial bait-and-entrapment which would result from choosing what we would consider to be low-frequency responses to schoolroom Earth’s current challenges.
Yet, if the perceptive reader penetrates "between the lines" thoughtfully, there is glimpsed a recurring commendable spiritual message in Eric’s commentary—of "Have the courage to speak The Truth" and "God helps those who help themselves"—which we certainly DO agree with wholeheartedly and have long supported enthusiastically.
We are in the time of the Great Awakening on this planet. The Light of Truth, intensifying with each passing moment, is nudging many to step forward and share what they know. Will such ones follow that nudge or continue to hide in fear? The answer to that question is perhaps the most important aspect of schoolroom Earth’s relentless testing at this critical time.
One last-minute footnote before beginning this interview: The Arts & Entertainment (A&E) cable television channel just started to air—on Easter Sunday evening!—a new two-hour documentary called: The Vatican Revealed. Tape it so you can study it carefully; within the lines of dialog and some of those people chosen for commentaries are many, many clues to the true power of the Vatican over world affairs. It would, of course, be much more revealing to watch the A&E program AFTER having read and digested the following.]
Martin: Before we begin, let me say a few words. The topic of your book is so comprehensive and covers, literally, all aspects of global control by the Jesuits, dating back to 1540. I would like to begin our conversation with a very important point of clarification so that our readers have something to hold onto while reading the historical narrative we are about to present. Let me also add that your book is one of the most compelling, dynamic, genuinely educational historical documents I have ever read. I want to tell you, I am impressed!
You, literally, link every major global conflict and political assassination to the hands of the Jesuit Order. The Jews, as with many other groups you mention, have been the unwitting pawns in this Jesuit Agenda.
Today, the present. I’m going to start here, and then we’re going to go way back in time and work our way up. But, I want to start HERE because it will give a foundation for going back in time.
Today, who is the Superior General of the Jesuits, the so-called "Black Pope" [black here refers to hidden, evil activities, not to race or color] who gives the orders to the actual Pope. Is it still Jean-Baptist Janssens?
Phelps: Janssens, Frenchman. No, he passed away in 1964. Then Pedro Arrupe came to power. Then, after Arrupe died, in 1988, I believe, the present Jesuit General is Count Hans Kolvenbach. [See photo nearby.] I call him Count Hans Kolvenhoof.
Martin: Let’s discuss this position of "General" and, in addition, who is this person, Count Hans Kolvenbach? Who does he serve? What are his origins? Where does he hail from?
Phelps: The present General is a Dutchman, his nationality is Dutch.
Martin: Where is he? Physically, where is he?
Phelps: He resides in Rome, at the headquarters of the Jesuits, called the Church of Jesu. So, the Jesuit General resides in Rome at, what I just called, the Jesuit headquarters.
Martin: The Church of Jesu, is that near the Vatican?
Phelps: It’s not far from the Vatican, right. It’s in the same general area. It’s headquarters of the Knights of Malta.
Martin: Is it part of Vatican City, proper?
Phelps: Right, I believe, yes it is.
Martin: Where does Satan fit into this picture, and what is the ultimate goal of the Jesuits, the so-called Society of Jesus?
Phelps: The Jesuit General, and the other high Jesuit Generals, they are sorcerers. They are Luciferians, and they worship what they would call Lucifer. They do not believe in Satan. They believe in Lucifer.
Now, according to Alberto Rivera, he was invited—because he was a top Jesuit at the time in the late ’60s—he was invited to a "Black Mass" in Spain where there were quite a few top Jesuit Generals present. And he called it a "Black Mass". Well, when you’re involved in a "Black Mass", you’re involved in the worship of Lucifer, all dressed in their black capes and so on.
Martin: I’m fascinated by Count Hans Kolvenbach because nobody in the world knows who this person is. I’ve never heard the name.
Phelps: Let me just tell you that you can see his picture and his top Jesuits—just a second and I’ll get the book. The name of the book is called Jesuits: A Multi-Biography, by Jean Lacoutre, and that is available, usually, in the bookstores. It was published in 1995.
Jean Lacoutre is a Frenchman. He was a communist, is a communist. On the last page of the pictures in it, that is right adjacent to page 343, you see Peter Hans Kolvenbach. He’s the Jesuit General, and he looks like just a very evil individual. There’s a Black man, who’s a high Jesuit, he’s a 29 Superior Jesuit with his cosmopolitan General staff. One of the General staff looks like Ben Kingsley of Shindler’s List. There are six White men, and one Black man. And that’s his General staff.
Martin: What is the process of choosing a successor General?
Phelps: The High Jesuits elect him, and he’s elected for life—unless he becomes a "heretic".
Martin: And the so-called "High Jesuits" represent what group?
Phelps: I would say that they’re the "professed", the high 4th Degree. When a Jesuit is professed, he is under the Jesuit Oath; he is under the "Bloody Oath" that I have in my book.
Martin: Do we have permission to reprint that Oath in our paper?
Phelps: Of course, absolutely.
Martin: One of my questions has to do with the Oath and it’s similarity to the Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion, and I wrote that question before I got back to the Protocols portion of your book.
Phelps: The Jesuits obviously wrote the Protocols because they have carried out every protocol in that little handbook. They have carried everything out. And, Alberto Rivera says—and he was a Jesuit—he was greatly maligned, not helped at all by the Apostate, Protestants, and Baptists in this country; he was helped, somewhat, by Jack Chick. Jack Chick published his story in six volumes, titled Alberto I, II, III, IV, V, & VI.
Alberto Rivera says that it was Jews aligned with the Pope who published the Protocols. Well, I tend to feel that it was just the Jesuits themselves because they, and they alone, were the ones who were able to bring this to pass.
They’re the ones in the government. They’re the ones behind professional sports. The owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a Knight of Malta. The owner of the Detroit Lions is a Knight of Malta. All your top owners of these ball clubs, for the most part, are Knights of Malta, getting the people whooped up in this hoopla over games and sports, while they’re busy creating a tyranny. So, that was one of the things in the Protocols—that they would create "amusements".
Another one they used was Walt Disney, 33rd-degree Freemason—Disneyworld, Disneyland. Another one was Milton Hersey, with Hersey Park. They create all of these amusements and games and pastimes to get the people drunk with pleasure, while they’re busy overthrowing the Protestant form of government.
Martin: Where does Las Vegas factor into all of this?
Phelps: Las Vegas, well, for the most part, is controlled by the Mafia. But all the high Mafia families are Roman Catholic, and they are ALL subordinate to the Pope or to the Cardinal of New York, which is Cardinal O’Connor—because the Commission, the Mafia Commission resides in New York.
Frank Costello was a member of the Mob Commission, and he was intimate, personal friends with Knight of Malta, Hollywood mogul, Joe Kennedy. And that has not changed.
So, the High Knights are good, dear brothers with the High Mafia Dons—the Gambinos, the Lucchese, the Columbos, all of them. And they control Hollywood, not the Jews. It’s only Jews who are front-men who are involved in Hollywood and working for the Mafia and for the Cardinal, just like in politics it would be Arlen Spector. Arlen Spector was Spelly’s [Cardinal Spellman’s] Jew in the assassination [of President Kennedy], and he would never say a word about it.
Martin: Now, as we go through here, if there’s anything that you don’t want me to print, please let me know because, literally, I’m going to print everything we say in this conversation.
Phelps: That’s fine, that’s fine with me because it needs to be said.
Martin: Let’s get back to Count Hans Kolvenbach. I want to shine the spotlight on this guy for just a little bit here. Let’s talk about him. What does he do? Who is he? Let’s talk about his position as "General". How do they exercise this control over the Pope? Does the Pope know he’s a pawn?
Phelps: Ok, one question at a time. So, which question do you want me to deal with?
Martin: Let’s just shine the light right on the Count.
Phelps: The Jesuit General, ok.
Martin: Let’s start there, and you tell me everything you want to tell me about that position.
Phelps: The Jesuit General is the absolute, complete, and total dictator and autocrat of the Order. When he speaks, his provincials move. The provincials are his major subordinates. There are around 83 provincials right now.
As I understand it, the Jesuit Order has divided the world into 83 regions. Ok? For each region, there is a Jesuit provincial. There are 10 provincials in the United States. There is one for Central America. There is one for Ireland. They’ve divided up the world into these provinces.
So it’s old Babylonian provincial government, centered in Nebuchadnezzar or the Jesuit General himself; so it’s strictly a Roman form of government where all the states or provinces are subordinate to this worldwide sovereign.
The Jesuit General exercises full and complete power over the Order. He meets with his provincials. When they decide to start a war or an agitation, he gets the information from the provincial of that country, how best to go about this, the demeanor of the people, and then he uses legitimate grievances to foam an agitation—like the 1964 Civil Rights Movement. That was ALL a Jesuit agitation, completely, because the end result was more consolidation of power in Washington with the 1964 Civil Rights Act that was written by [the longtime President of the University of Notre Dame, the Reverend] Theodore Hesburgh.
The Jesuit General rules the world through his provincials. And the provincials then, of course, rule the lower Jesuits, and there are many Jesuits who are not "professed", so many of the lower Jesuits have no idea what’s going on at the top. They have no concept of the power of their Order.
It’s just like Freemasonry. The lower have no idea that the High Shriner Freemasons are working for the Jesuit General. They think that they’re just doing works and being good people. But the bottom line is that the high-level Freemasons are subject, also, to the Jesuit General because the Jesuit General, with Fredrick the Great, wrote the High Degrees, the last 8 Degrees, of the Scottish Rite Freemasonry when Fredrick protected them when they were suppressed by the Pope in 1773.
So, you have the alignment with the Jesuit Order and the most powerful Freemason they had in the craft, Fredrick the Great, during their suppression. That is an irrefutable conclusion. And then, when you see the Napoleonic Wars, the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars carried out by Freemasonry, everything Napoleon did, and the Jacobins, whatever they did, completely benefited the Jesuit Order.
It’s to this end that Alexander Dumas wrote his The Count Of Monte Cristo. The Count is the Jesuit General. Monte=Mount, Cristo=Christ. The Count of the Mount of Christ. Alexander Dumas was talking about the Jesuit General getting vengeance when the Jesuits were suppressed, and many of them were consigned to an island, three hours sailing, West, off the coast of Portugal. And so, when the Jesuits finally regained their power, they punished all of the monarchs of Europe who had suppressed them, drove them from their thrones, including the Knights of Malta from Malta, using Napoleon.
And Alexander Dumas, who fought for the Italian patriots in 1848, to free Rome from the temporal power of the Pope, wrote many books and one of the books was to expose this, and that was The Count Of Monte Cristo.
So, when you read that book, bear in mind that it’s really a satire on the Jesuit Order regaining their power in France. The Count of Monte Cristo has an intelligence apparatus that can’t be beat. Well, that’s the Jesuit Order.
But the Count doesn’t get what he really ought to have, or his last wish, and that’s the love of woman. He gains back all of his political power; he gains back everything he lost; but he doesn’t have the love of a woman. And THAT is the Jesuit Order. They have no women. They have no love of a woman. Because to have a wife, to have a woman, means you have an allegiance to your wife and family, and you cannot obey the General. That’s why they will NEVER be married, and that’s one of the great KEYS to their success.
They can betray a nation and walk away. They can betray all the Irish Catholics getting on the Titanic, and walk away. They can betray us in Vietnam and walk away. They can betray us every time we go to the hospital and get radiated and cut and drugged, and walk away, because it’s "for the greater glory of God"—Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam: the greater glory of the god who sits in Rome.
Martin: What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Jesuits?
Phelps: Their ultimate goal is the rule of the world, with the Pope of their making, from Solomon’s rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. That’s their ultimate goal.
Martin: And why is Solomon’s Temple rebuilt so important?
Phelps: Because the Jesuits have always wanted that. When Ignatius Loyola first started the Order, one of the first things he did was, he wanted to go to Jerusalem and set up the Jesuit headquarters there. So, he went there, he tried to do it and failed, came back, went to school, started his Latin studies, etc. Maybe it might be a good idea to just review a little bit about Ignatius Loyola.
Martin: Yes.
Phelps: Ok, Ignatius Loyola was a Spanish soldier, and he was wounded at a battle between the French and the Spanish, and his leg was shattered. Well, the French General, because Loyola was very brave in conflict, ordered his own doctors to attend Loyola. So they set the leg and sent him back to his home—which, of course, he was royalty to the Counsel of Loyola in Spain, in the area of the Basques.
Loyola, through his series of desiring to regain his leg—it had healed improperly, so he made a rack where he would stretch the leg, with severe, horrible, awful pain—and trying to stretch this leg to get it back to normal shape, he endured awful, terrible pain. He had it rebroken, again, a couple of times and it still did not heal properly, so he had a perpetual limp. He could no longer be the courtier among women, and as a result, he went into this depression, and he then had this vision of the saints, etc., etc., and he wrote his spiritual exercises.
I will stop at the spiritual exercises, just for a minute, but I’ll take up from there. Loyola then wanted to form an army, but when this happened with his spiritual exercises, those spiritual exercises would be basic training for all of his Jesuits. That’s what they will ALL go through. That’s what every Jesuit goes through today.
One of the maxims of the spiritual exercises is that if my superior says "black is white and white is black", then that’s the way it is. That is in his spiritual exercises. That is what is quoted in JFK, when Kevin Costner is telling his people: "Hey, people, we’ve got to start thinking like the CIA. Black is white and white is black." That was a Jesuit giveaway that the Jesuits produced that movie, because they’re quoting Ignatius Loyola in that movie from his spiritual exercises.
So, Loyola had an indomitable will. He had a will of steel, and he set his mind to regain back what the Papacy had lost to the Reformation. And so, he went to the Pope, and the Pope in 1540 then created the Jesuit Order. But this man is a soldier, he’s a lawyer, and he put together a legion of soldiers and warriors to get back what Rome had lost, as well as institute a World Government for the Pope, from Jerusalem. This was in 1540.
He started the Order in 1536. He was arrested by the Inquisition, and he was released, and he went to the Pope; he threw himself at the feet of the Pope. He would be completely at his service. The Pope chartered him, and that Pope was Pius III. The Pope chartered them, created the Jesuit Order; now he has Papal protection, and they began their awful history of deeds of blood. And war after war after war after war, they’re all attributed to the Jesuit Order in some way. Catholic nobles, with lots of money, donated castles and schools and money to the Jesuit Order.
Virtually everything they own has been given to them or stolen by them. Of course, they stole all of the fortunes of the Jews in World War II. They stole all their gold, all their assets and everything, whenever they went into a country. What’s just been released is NOTHING compared to what they’ve taken.
In Edmond Paris’s book, printed by Ozark Publications, called The Vatican Against Europe, it gets into great detail of what they did. It calls it—the last 30 years of war is all attributable to the Jesuits, their massacres of the Serbs and Jews, etc. But Edmond Paris did not understand that the Jesuit General—and this is one of the most important points I want to make about Von Kolvenbach—the Jesuit General is in complete control of the international intelligence community: that’s the CIA, the FBI, the KGB, the Israeli Mossad, the German BND, the British SIS. The Jesuit General is in COMPLETE CONTROL of the entire intelligence apparatus—FBI, every bureaucratic agency in this country, all of it; he is in complete control of it.
So, whenever he wants to find something out about an individual, they put in the Social Security number, and everything from all of the intelligence apparatus kicks-in and he and his provincials can review everything about that man. Credit cards, you name it, everything that’s attached to Rome’s social security number, which FDR put upon us in 1933 with the help of Spellman; at the time, I believe he was Archbishop, or maybe it was Cardinal Hayes—but Rome was behind FDR in putting him in office.
The couple of things that he did was implement social insecurity, the income tax, and recognizing Joseph Stalin’s bloody Jesuit USSR government. So, with the giving of us the Social Security number, that is Rome’s number—that’s why I refuse to use it—and that’s why they want everybody using it for everything: driver’s license, tax return, credit card, everything you do, that number is you and that number is Rome’s number.
Martin: Let me just back-up here for a minute. What comes to mind is Louis Freeh, head of the FBI.
Phelps: Roman Catholic, good altar boy. Probably a Knight of Columbus; I can’t prove it. But anybody with that kind of power has got to be a Knight of Columbus.
And the Knights of Columbus implement Jesuit politics. And Louis Freeh was the one behind the Waco atrocity and the Oklahoma City bombing atrocity. And his top sniper was a Japanese Roman Catholic named Lon Horiuchi.
So, it’s Roman Catholics in control, Knights in control of the FBI, who carried out all of this killing. And those two men, Louis Freeh and Lon Horiuchi are personally accountable to Cardinal O’Connor of New York. And Cardinal O’Connor of New York is the most powerful Cardinal in the country. He is the military vicar. And that’s why Bush kissed his fanny for going to Bob Jones, because Cardinal O’Connor is the King of the American Empire. And he rules his Empire from that Palace, St. Patrick’s Cathedral, "the little Vatican".
Martin: And is he in contact, do you think, with Kolvenbach?
Phelps: Of course. O’Connor himself is not a Jesuit, but the Jesuits are like the SS of the Catholic Church. They maintain order.
And the ones closest to him who maintain order are the Jesuits of Fordham University. Now, one of them—the head of Fordham University, I believe he is an Irishman, is also a member of the CFR [Council on Foreign Relations]. And I have that right here in the Annual Report of the CFR of 1993. Those Jesuits at Fordham maintain semblance and rule over the Cardinal in New York. And, of course, the powerful Jesuits of Fordham include Avery Dulles and John Foster Dulles, one of the writers of the book on the Second Vatican Council.
Martin: Let’s back-up now, let’s go back. What’s the Council of Trent?
Phelps: The Council of Trent was the response of Rome to the Protestant Reformation. Remember—the Protestant Reformation brought us all of the political liberty that we know of today. There’s no such thing as national sovereignty without the Reformation. There’s no such thing as private rights without the Reformation. There’s no such thing as the Law of Nations, as we know of it today, of Montesquieu and the others, without the Reformation.
So, when the Reformation came with their doctrines of salvation by grace through faith alone, and that there was no need for the priesthood to go to Heaven—that all we need is salvation in Christ, and Romans 1:17: the righteous shall live by faith. When the Reformation came, it completely stripped Rome of its spiritual power. The priests were no longer wanted because the people were getting the word of God in a Bible, specifically in Holland, England, and Germany. And so, with these great revivals breaking forth and the Reformation happening, nations were breaking away from the power of the Pope. The Holy Roman Empire was breaking up. Charles V, the Emperor, resigned and became a monk and a gardener. So, the Lord was moving mightily in breaking the power of the Holy Roman Empire, started by Charlemagne and the Pope.
part two to follow...
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go to the damn link yourselves... it's way too frustrating that you won't do your own research and that you expect me to spoon feed you... and i would too... but this disgusting 4000 character rule designed probably to prevent people like me from educating you vast illiterate and ignorant non-historians who know nothing of the past so when i tell you about connections that exist still until this day you dismiss them and ridicule me... i know history that you have no idea about... but i'm the lunatic... so you know what... enjoy the next holocaust bec. you blind fools and moronic knaves simply refuse to listen and learn... do your own damn homework... and get rid of this asinine limit on posts... it's for children who do not take reading seriously... nik. in utter dismay... out...
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As a very proud Catholic I am also a proud American, and went through 12 years of the Catholic school system and through religious studies it said iin the Bible to the Jews as the Nation and People of God, and as the American part of me, I will always stand side by side with my true ally and Israel is my ally and friend and will always support her fighting off Arabs Muslims and Anti Semitic Nazi dogs. And I love the Jews and want to see my Christian and Catholic brothers and sisters work side by side with our Jewish brothers and sisters, we have a common enemy. And as far as the Pope goes he is the highest figure in the Catholic belief, do I agree with everything the church says or does no of course not I do not agree with him enforcing amnesty in the United States.
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Nik, why do you have so much anger?
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Nik, I don't think anyone here is denying what was done in the past to the Jews by the RCC and Protestants. However, I don't think it's fair to lump our wonderful Christian supporters here with all the Christian anti-Semites of the past. After all, they don't have to support JTF. They haven't suffered from anti-Semitism. They haven't been harmed by people who hate them just because of their religion. Yet, they've stepped out of their comfort zone to support JTF, and I think they should be commended for that. Personally, I wish more Jews were as pro JTF as our wonderful Christian members.
So to sum up, Nik, there are plenty of anti-Semites around today of all religions. Therefore I suggest you direct your anger at them. If you want a list of anti-Semitic blogs and websites, I'll be happy to send you some links. Chaim wants to work with all good people of all religions. Let's respect his wishes.
Meanwhile, I'm locking this thread.