A Question from our Hebrew Forum to our Gentile Members

[Zelhar]

We currently have a discussion in our Hebrew forum regarding the cooperation with gentiles (specifically Christians), whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere. And also if there is a religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.

One of our great members from the Hebrew forum wanted especially to ask our Catholic members because he has heard of Evangelist supporters of Israel and I told him there are also Catholics supporters and I mentioned Vito and Masterwolf. He wanted your opinion as to whether Catholism as a religion did not hold antisemitic beliefs as part of its faith such as collective blame of the Jews for crucifying Jesus.

I hope this subject is not going to offend you, it is not the intention. If you like, you can post your opinion here and I would translate and post it in our Hebrew forum.

[AsheDina]

Zelhar 
 
  "ProJewChristian" is also a Catholic, he posted a topic on this subject.

 I am not the wisest on this, BUT I can tell you something... There is this something to be VERY careful of, and I am 100% SERIOUS. There are many that shall come in the name of "Christianity"

 -Wolf, Vito, ChristianZionist, and a bunch of others on this forum are 100% for Israel. Probably America first- but not at the price of Gds Holy Land. The Christians on this forum are not frauds- they have been here a long time. I know Wolf would  probably lay down his life for Chaim ben Pesach- a REAL Christian is the Jews best friend, but they are DIFFERENT, I personally believe that there are Christians like Corrie TenBooms (who saved Jews in Holland during the Holocaust) but there are few and far between.. My best and closest friend since I was 7, a Catholic--- ~
  I use to get beat up a LOT, she was ALWAYS there, she was Catholic- she helped me (besides my Mom and Dad) how to defend myself.. She NEVER pushed her Catholicism on me, EVER. I loved her so much, we were friends for 36 years, around the time she passed, or maybe after, cant remember- I was told to watch this video- she had told me that MANY Christians would be swayed in these very bad times- if you can tolerate this, watch it- listen how they USE the N.Testament, in the "name" of Christianity- Cohen also is VERY WISE about this. Cohen KNOWS that these people are evil and TOTAL frauds. Cohen is one of the smartest young men on this forum, and it would be wise if all would PLEASE watch his vidoes, and learn what he says about this HORRIFYING NAZI movement that is taking place all over the planet- in the name of "Christianity"
here is the link-   (Seeing the BACKGROUND alone- is ENOUGH for ANY person to say NO to THIS) NO NO NO NO

  ***I HATE THIS VIDEO***  turn your speakers off. Just look at what they have as pictures.

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=i2RyMmX3ipQ&feature=related

(it is HARD to watch, so use DISCRETION) But it is SMART and WISE to KNOW what you are up against. If it were NOT for my Catholic friend, I would NEVER have known what a real Christian was, I MISS HER.    36 yrs. She died at 42 yrs old. Mary was her name.


OH, and BTW- WHEN did the N. Testament EVER tell a person to wear a MASK?
2 legit men wore masks- Zorro
and
the Lone Ranger- BOTH are FAIRYTALE CHARACTERS.

[Rubystars]

We currently have a discussion in our Hebrew forum regarding the cooperation with gentiles (specifically Christians), whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere.

You can't know whether anyone's support is sincere, Gentile or Jew. You just have to work with those who are helping, and trust no one completely but God.

And also if there is a religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.

I do believe that there is partly a religious reason for me, in that I believe the Bible clearly states that certain land is meant for the Jews. Also I believe there are blessings for blessing the Jewish nation and curses for cursing it.

There are also secular reasons, of course, such as common decency of not wanting any nation to be subject to genocide. Israel allows Jews to have a place of their own.

One of our great members from the Hebrew forum wanted especially to ask our Catholic members because he has heard of Evangelist supporters of Israel and I told him there are also Catholics supporters and I mentioned Vito and Masterwolf. He wanted your opinion as to whether Catholism as a religion did not hold antisemitic beliefs as part of its faith such as collective blame of the Jews for crucifying Jesus.

I'm not a Catholic but I think that there are these types of anti-Semitic elements among all groups, whether they be Christian or not. Even Jews can be anti-Semitic, sadly enough.

I hope this subject is not going to offend you, it is not the intention. If you like, you can post your opinion here and I would translate and post it in our Hebrew forum.

It's an important topic and it's good that you brought it up.

[2honest]

If some Gentile supports Israel then you can take it for granted that he/she is sincere in most cases.
In my view this claim is valid no matter what kind of religious background someone has.

It simply has to do with the fact that supporting Israel is not popular in most parts of the world. Why would someone stand with the Jews knowing that he will be attacked almost certainly? One may benefit by complaining about the poor Palestinians but not by defending Jews, sadly.

I don't talk about saying the Jews have a right to exist in their own state. Most (sane) people will agree.
But saying things like no negotiations with Arabs, no land for peace, there are no Palestinians, etc... that will cause much outrage.

I dont really see that some kind of religious background may affect the seriousness of the support, except being muslim.

Nevertheless you're right that especially the Catholic past in Europe was very antisemitic.
Is it a contradiction to defend Israel and have a Catholic background at the same time? Not if you've left behind the antisemitism of the Catholic church.

Given the biased media coverage falling in love with Israel doesn't happen automatically.
Being German the lessons in school dealing with the holocaust gave me the conviction never again, but it didnt give me the deep affection I have now. I got it by investigating things by myself.
Looking at the facts and history of the Arab/Israeli conflict I realized that it is the only rational decision to side with Israel.
Instead of compromising the support for Israel my Christian background boosted it.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I support the Jews because the Bible commands it, because of religious reason (i.e. the change I underwent mentally when I became a Christian), and because of common sense when observing world facts--it is just logical.

[Americanhero1]

I support the Jews because the Bible commands it, because of religious reason (i.e. the change I underwent mentally when I became a Christian), and because of common sense when observing world facts--it is just logical.

I agree with CF

[q_q_]

very simple Zelhar

I would think that all christians want us to believe in jesus.. And believe that we will when jesus comes

We believe that when moshiach comes, all people, christians,  buddists, muslims, will abandon their non torah beliefs, and see the truth of the torah.

Our beliefs don't affect each other.

I doubt many christians here believe all jews are going ot hell for not believing in jesus, but many christians do believe that.   That is their belief. It doesn't affect me.

Neturei karta can talk to muslims and admit that they believe that when moshiach comes, and the exile is ended, moshiach will be king of israel, the jewish people will return there and rule there. It doesn't affect the muslims, because for neturei karta, it's a miraculous thing. Not by force.

Christians that try to evangelise jews, cannot be accepted.. But the christians here do not.

So that's fine.

You find out soon enough if they are trying to evangelise!  

JTF is not telling christians to come to israel.
And the christians here do not want to come.
They recognise that it's the land for the jewish people.

So israelis don't have to worry about christians here evangelising.  When it has happened, the members were banned. And it wouldn't happen in israel because christians of JTF are not even aiming at living in israel.

[Vito]

I support Israel and the Jews for religious reasons. I have no interest in pushing Christianity on them if that's what you're asking. G-d commands that I support the Jews. You have to remember something Zelhar, the NT does NOT omit the OT (Tanach) .

[Christian Zionist]

I am a Christian as you all know.  Yes, of course all Christians want the entire world to believe in Jesus. The term missionizing/evangelizing has become one of the most misunderstood terms because of the actions of some Christians calling themselves as missionaries.  Missionizing/evanglizing in the Christian scriptures means tellinging the Christian message to someone who has never heard about that.  Nowadays most of the Jews and (in my understanding) all of the Jews in this forum know very well what the Christian message is. Some of the Jews in this forum are very well versed in NT verses than an average Christian. Therefore it is stupid to announce the Christian message again and again.  I warned some of the Christian posters via PM, e-mail and directly about the futility of preaching Christianity to those who already know the message.  Well, now someone might ask me how would I disobey the command of our Bible to evangelize the entire world and still remain a true Christian.  The answer is, we can evangelize everyone but we cannot CONVERT anyone by ourselves.  Genuine conversion in Christianity is an act of Ruach HaKodesh.  Ruach HaKodesh invades a person and reconciles him/her with God. Other forms of conversions are fake.  For example most of the reported conversions by missionary groups who distribute pamplets to Jews in street corners are fake and does not bring glory to Christianity.  Missionaries who target Jews with their pamphlets are taking the role of Ruach HaKodesh.  I totally disagree with anyone who target Jews or any other particular people group for conversion.  Becoming a Christian is purely an act of God and it is totally between God and that individual.

Okay, now having declared that I cannot convert anyone you might ask why would I want to support Israel?  Well, most of you know the answer already. Christian eschatology (study of end time events) is 100% based on the formation of the state of Israel and all Jews must be gathered back to the nation of Israel before the Messiah comes (who in Christianity as all of you know, is none other than Jesus).  So it is necessary for me to support the existence and expansion of the state of Israel.  There are no Israeli Arabs.  In Christianity the word Holy does not necessarily mean perfect or pure. It means set apart and santified unto God.  So the term Holy land means a land that has been set apart for God's chosen people, the Jews.  Gentiles do not belong to the land of Israel and it is against God's will for a Gentile to live in the nation of Israel.

There are two more reasons why I would like to support the nation of Israel.

a) Jews have made disproportionate contributions to Science, Engineering and Technology compared to their population and the amount of persecution they had endured through out centuries.

b) Muslims had stolen the lands of many different cultures and converted them to Islam.  Israel is a living testimony that stolen lands can be taken back from the muslims.  It is an inspiration to the entire civilized world.

We have a lot of theological differences in the areas of original sin, concept of hell, existence of satan, atonement etc., But if we magnify our differences that will enable evil forces like Islam and communism to prosper.

As Chaim used to say one day one these two great faiths (Judaism & Christianity) will be proven right.

Let us all hope and pray so that the Messiah comes soon to deliver all us from this evil world.  I cannot wait to see that glorious day!


I am not a Catholic, my beliefs are similar to those of Pat Robertson's!

[Gam Bashan veGam Gilad]

I am a Christian as you all know.  Yes, of course all Christians want the entire world to believe in Jesus. The term missionizing/evangelizing has become one of the most misunderstood terms because of the actions of some Christians calling themselves as missionaries.  Missionizing/evanglizing in the Christian scriptures means tellinging the Christian message to someone who has never heard about that.  Nowadays most of the Jews and (in my understanding) all of the Jews in this forum know very well what the Christian message is. Some of the Jews in this forum are very well versed in NT verses than an average Christian. Therefore it is stupid to announce the Christian message again and again.  I warned some of the Christian posters via PM, e-mail and directly about the futility of preaching Christianity to those who already know the message.  Well, now someone might ask me how would I disobey the command of our Bible to evangelize the entire world and still remain a true Christian.  The answer is, we can evangelize everyone but we cannot CONVERT anyone by ourselves.  Genuine conversion in Christianity is an act of Ruach HaKodesh.  Ruach HaKodesh invades a person and reconciles him/her with G-d. Other forms of conversions are fake.  For example most of the reported conversions by missionary groups who distribute pamplets to Jews in street corners are fake and does not bring glory to Christianity.  Missionaries who target Jews with their pamphlets are taking the role of Ruach HaKodesh.  I totally disagree with anyone who target Jews or any other particular people group for conversion.  Becoming a Christian is purely an act of G-d and it is totally between G-d and that individual.

Okay, now having declared that I cannot convert anyone you might ask why would I want to support Israel?  Well, most of you know the answer already. Christian eschatology (study of end time events) is 100% based on the formation of the state of Israel and all Jews must be gathered back to the nation of Israel before the Messiah comes (who in Christianity as all of you know, is none other than Jesus).  So it is necessary for me to support the existence and expansion of the state of Israel.  There are no Israeli Arabs.  In Christianity the word Holy does not necessarily mean perfect or pure. It means set apart and santified unto G-d.  So the term Holy land means a land that has been set apart for G-d's chosen people, the Jews.  Gentiles do not belong to the land of Israel and it is against G-d's will for a Gentile to live in the nation of Israel.

There are two more reasons why I would like to support the nation of Israel.

a) Jews have made disproportionate contributions to Science, Engineering and Technology compared to their population and the amount of persecution they had endured through out centuries.

b) Muslims had stolen the lands of many different cultures and converted them to Islam.  Israel is a living testimony that stolen lands can be taken back from the muslims.  It is an inspiration to the entire civilized world.

We have a lot of theological differences in the areas of original sin, concept of hell, existence of satan, atonement etc., But if we magnify our differences that will enable evil forces like Islam and communism to prosper.

As Chaim used to say one day one these two great faiths (Judaism & Christianity) will be proven right.

Let us all hope and pray so that the Messiah comes soon to deliver all us from this evil world.  I cannot wait to see that glorious day!


I am not a Catholic, my beliefs are similar to those of Pat Robertson's!

This should have my applause.

[nikmatdam]

i can't speak for the catholic laity out there especially in america... many of them for generations now have been the most tolerant toward jews of any catholics in history... but the church remains vile and evil as always... and wishes to holocaust jews yet again as soon as possible though the last few popes have presented a conciliatory posture towards jews, israel and torah... however it is not sincere as it is really just a ploy to get us to drop our guard... the easier to finish us off... plus they do not have to bare their fangs and claws at us right now... due to the fact that they have hired the muslim hordes to serve as their shock troops to kill us... all the while pretending to be sorry for our current state of siege, mutilation and death... while from cover rejoicing all along that their little gambit is working since the entire world believes that all the jew-hatred stems exclusively from the muslim world today and not from either of the two main christian components catholicism or protestantism... and so the church holds up its hands and says... "see no blood of jews on them anymore..." esav is like the pig our sages instruct us... he has split hooves but does not chew his cud... so he is not kosher...but he holds out his paws that look kosher and he promotes this lie and promulgates it in the world... getting everyone to believe it's the truth... that he is righteous...but it's all a huge lie... a total fraud and a ruse pulled over our eyes... pure unadulterated deception... because the truth of it all is that esav/rome/vatican are responsible for all of the jewish blood spilled over the last 500-1000 years... and also that of a huge chunk of humanity in general...

but don't take my word for it... get these three books... and see for yourself... "vatican assassins" by eric jon phelps.... "the grand design exposed" by john daniel and "2 babylons" by rev. alexander hislop... this last one proves that the church has never been christian or monotheistic but is hiding away at its core the ancient cult system begun by nimrod and taken over by esav after he killed nimrod... known to history as the babylonian/egyptian mystery cults... worshipping nimrod and his mother/wife seramis (now called jesus and mary) but having many varied names over the centuries throughout the greek and roman empires... the form their pagan worship takes is worship of the sun and the "queen of heaven" see jeremiah and 2kings... and they also observe the ancient moloch rites and rituals...

i'm sorry to say that this is the truth but i call 'em the way i see 'em... i truly wish it weren't so... but as chazal (our sages) teach us... "esav soneh et yakov halacha hi..." "the hatred esav harbors and maintains for his brother yakov is a fact of life... a veritable law of nature in its own right..." and this is all EMET L'AMITA!!! (absolute torah truth)... nik. out...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.

I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Nikmatdam, as interesting as your theories often are, your anti-Catholic diatribes are getting old. I don't agree with a lot that the RCC does, but it's just nonsense to claim that they are rooted in paganism. This is just peoples' wild imaginations. These are not productive posts and they just alienate Catholic members.

[nikmatdam]

you have no idea what you are talking about c.f. if you would only take a look at the book "2 babylons" for even five minutes you would see how serious these charges all are... you just can't wish this all away... this guy wrote this back in 1853... long before "conspiracy lunatics" like moi roamed the land... you just have no flippin' idea man... none!!! nik.

[Ambiorix]

Hello Hebrew forum!
Thanks for the questions.

First of all : It is very good you Jews want to stay Jews, and go back to youir homeland, because you are safer as a majority in your own land than a minority in exile.

Political/economical/military/cultural/religious cooperation is neccesary and possible. It is not a good idea to turn Israel into another North-Korea. Of course, you need to keep your sovereignity. You need to find a balance here between the 2 extremes.

whether and how one can know when the support offered is sincere
Help is welcome, but it is impossible to know whether somebody is sincere. If you Israeli don't want to fight yourselves, to keep your country, than for sure you'll loose it, and new Holocausts might happen. Don't count on others to protect you! I don't count on Jews to protect my country neither. But helping others is good.

religious motive- that is if you think that your religion instructs you to offer support for Israel, whether the opposite, or is it neutral about this subject.

G-d = Hashem = Allah... or isn't it ?

The politics of the Vatican and the Pope seems to be less anti-Jewish since WWII.
I think the vast majority of European Catholics are mildly anti-"Nazi" "apartheid" Israel, and pro-"Islam the religion of Peace "" palestine"

I respect Judaism. As I do respect almost every other religion.
Islam is at war since 1400 years with both Christians and Jews.  Do not forget, we religious people are at war with anti-religious people too. Some "agnostici" or "atheists" however, are of a higher moral standard, then "so-called pietous" people. I believe, when we die, G-d will judge us. I'll find it out in a couple of decades what He thinks of me.

The Catholic religion is almost dead in West-Europe. The Church was a dominant factor until 1960, from then, West-Europe became secular/communist.

It will become a third-world dominated religion, and Islam will be the major religion in Europe.

Unless we stop them ...  by making more babies then them, G-d willing.

[mord]

I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.

I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.

such as Martin Luther

you mean martin luther king

[Ambiorix]

I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.

I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.

such as Martin Luther

you mean martin luther king

No, not that black "hero"...

Martin Luther, check it on google. Lutheranism. It's a Church...

[mord]

I agree with everything that Christian Zionist said. Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and a proud one, but obviously G-d does not only care about Christians--especially Jews. G-d commands me to love everyone the way He does as much as possible and to treat others equally to myself--and although I fail at that a lot and at times am the worst of all hypocrites, I know that I am forgiven of my failings, as bad as they are.

I will say that all Christians must speak out forcefully against vicious anti-Semites in the church, such as Martin Luther (and his modern equivalents such as Anus-T) at all times. Believe me--I have had several debates with people over Luther and why I believe he could not possibly have been saved (Christianese for going to heaven). Unfortunately, many Christians have a culture of reverence of their icons and church fathers in just the same way that some Jews exalt their rabbinical leaders over all else (such as the Satmarites), even when they are clearly in the wrong. As for me personally, none of Luther's teachings possibly could have redeemed or compensated for the black and vile hatred within his soul. Even his positive, agreeable teachings (salvation by grace, no papal indulgences, etc.) were not original to him. The martyr John Wycliffe taught everything that he did centuries earlier and he gets little credit for it today.

such as Martin Luther

you mean martin luther king

No, not that black "hero"...

Martin Luther, check it on google. Lutheranism. It's a Church...

Yes i know but king as well

[Ulli]

I really like Jewish culture. Specially the kitchen and the music 

I believe in the unbroken covenant of Abraham, Isaak and Jakob.

I don't believe in proselytization at all, because I believe in the teaching of Calvin, that the private call comes directly from G-d. Toviah Singer has mentioned this in one of his lessons against proselytization of Jews too. He knows really a lot about Calvinist theology.

In addition to that is from a cultural point of view Christianity today in very bad shape. I think Christians should concentrate their efforts to themselve first, then to their family and their church community. We have to correct ourselves. To direct our cultural and religious power to outside makes not really sense.

I think, that Jews have suffered enough after nearly 2000 years and they deserve an own home, where they can be Jewish with pride and without fear.

But the main point, why I am in JTF is self-interest. In my oppinion is this the hard point. Call me selfish, but it's the truth.

A strong and great Israel will break the waves of Muslimes, which are flooding against the Western World in order to destroy our economic freedom, personal freedom and religious freedom.

Also we have a real leader with great experience and without fear, who is able to reach his goals.

To be honest: JTF is the first organization, I know, who is righteous and able to change things.

Ulli

[Zelhar]

What great posts you sent guys

Here is what I think-

I think people should be good and rational. It is not always possible to know what is good or rational but usually it only takes a little common sense to see the plain truth. Irrational people are dead people, they are prayed upon by the evil people. Rational and evil people are like Nazis, they have no moral compass so ultimately they seek to destroy everything the don't agree with.

I think good and rational people should help each other, it should make sense. It doesn't matter what one belief is, as long as one doesn't try to force or to deceive others into his beliefs. This is all that it takes to enable true cooperation between very different people with very different belief systems.

Of course things are not that simple in reality because very rarely do the mouth truly reflects the mind. And there should also be self interest involved, since everyone has motives.

More particularly regarding religion- a sensible person can only hold revered at most one religion, and so every other religion is wrong for him. However a good person must also accept difference of opinions, and of religions. Clearly no one wants to be forced into another ones  way of thinking just because the other is mightier than him, and so symmetrically no one should force another, weaker than him, to hold his thoughts and beliefs.

[nikmatdam]

there's yet another way to prove i'm right... but you have to find a way to download this book and post it here... it is by rav avraham sutton and it is called "sacred technology... and the return to eden..." maybe it's on-line at his website... www.geulah.org

in this sefer he makes the case for satan's hordes of lost souls who have taken up with him and turned evil (to the darkside of the force... against the light) that they have no real power of their own... but suck off power from good souls who sin... and you can always tell who they are in the world because they are the murderers... always using this device to gain and extend their power and control... always certain they are getting away with it and that G-d does not see or have the ability to stop them or bring them to account... their goal is always to enslave and try and take over and dominate the entire world...

and all of this describes to a tee... nimrod and his cult... amalek from esav and yishmael (islam)... and it also exactly represents what the greek and roman empires were all about and of course what the vatican church has always done to mankind down thru history on the earth... esav=edom=rome=vatican all in the employ of satan... and willingly so... the one main overriding mida (characteristic) of all these slime from ancient times leading down to this very day is that they all want one thing and only one thing and they demand this as their "gods-given-right" (sick)... they want to own you... all of you without exception and forever... hamaven yaven... but the rest of you will just have to be turned into lampshades again before you get it... too bad... nik. out...

[Vito]

היהדים ז חברים שלים

[Shamgar]

If you read the Bible it tells you to support Israel, both OT and NT.
My God is the God of Israel.
The Bible says the Palestinians have no inheritance.
I visit Israel every year.
And if you took all religion totally out of the picture, I would still support Israel because it would be the RIGHT thing to do.

And if you doubt my sincerity, the attached picture shows the decals proudly and prominently displayed on my truck. They are not magnetic, they are decals and they won't easily come off. There is not a day goes by that I don't have to contend with someone's negative comment or gesture. I love my God and I love Israel.

[ItalianZionist]

Zelhar,
   I'm Catholic. I believe that Pope John Paul set the record straight stating that antisemitism is a sin and that the Jewish people should not be blamed for the death of Jesus. Actually if I'm not mistaken, in the Catholic faith, Jesus's death is blamed on the sins of ALL people whether christian or not.

I don't really see antisemitism in the Gospels. There is one line where Jesus says that the pharisees are of "their father the devil."  But this is not to say that ALL Jews are devils. It is obvious from the passage that Jesus directed that line to the Pharisees of that time NOT to the Jewish people. This is a great thread. If I can be of any further help let me know.
 
I personally believe in helping Israel because I believe that it's the right thing to do. Not necessarily that it is a religious cause for me (although that is also a reason). Jews have been in Israel for thosands of years and all these erroneous stories about Jews "just coming from Europe" to take over the Holy Land is simply nonsense.

[Americanhero1]

Zelhar,
   I'm Catholic. I believe that Pope John Paul set the record straight stating that antisemitism is a sin and that the Jewish people should not be blamed for the death of Jesus. Actually if I'm not mistaken, in the Catholic faith, Jesus's death is blamed on the sins of ALL people whether christian or not.

I don't really see antisemitism in the Gospels. There is one line where Jesus says that the pharisees are of "their father the devil."  But this is not to say that ALL Jews are devils. It is obvious from the passage that Jesus directed that line to the Pharisees of that time NOT to the Jewish people. This is a great thread. If I can be of any further help let me know.
 
I personally believe in helping Israel because I believe that it's the right thing to do. Not necessarily that it is a religious cause for me (although that is also a reason). Jews have been in Israel for thosands of years and all these erroneous stories about Jews "just coming from Europe" to take over the Holy Land is simply nonsense.

I have to  agree with IZ i am also a Catholic and I dont see antisemitism in the church or in the Bible.