Horselady, JTF actually would prefer that Jews, or for that matter anybody, not enter the military right now, because of the extreme political correctness of it and the fact that people are dying for absolutely nothing. Although I consider every soldier a hero and myself unfit to wipe their shoes, I myself do not have a high opinion of any institution that puts heroes through bogus, kangaroo "war crimes" trials and offers terrorists immunity in exchange for testifying against them.
p.s.--Thats true :::D :::D
If I was Secretary of Defense, I wouldn't want Jews in the military.
They spend all of their time fighting each other. 8;) :::D
p.s.--
If I was Secretary of Defense, I wouldn't want Jews in the military.
They spend all of their time fighting each other. 8;) :::D
I tried to sign up, but they refused to accept me.
My Dad was a Marine.
Those people asking "Why aren't Jews in the Military?" are most often the same people who believe that Jews "control" every aspect of life..
For example: "Roosevelt was a Jew", "Rockefeller is Jew", "Rumsfeld is really Jewish" "All bankers are Jews" "Jews control Wall Street" "Jews started every war in history" "Hitler's Dad was a Jew!"...etc.
Then while Jews are in fact in uniform actively engaged in two theatres of war today representing all branches of the military, the same folks obsessed with Jews suddenly are unable to see Jews.
Anyone believing that Jews make up a substantial portion of the American populace only believe this falsehood because the tiny percentage of Jews are such high achievers in every profession and occupation in which they engage.
Actually they do if you take % of Jews in the U.S. of military age and thats not alot due to the large amount of Jews who marry later in life then general population.And if you consider the extremely low Birth rate among Jews they do serve in proportion
This was my brothers friend from memphis where my brother lived he s on their list http://www.jewsingreen.com/home/blog/comments/another_jewish_marine_kia/
This is site
http://www.jewsingreen.com/
A friend of mine in banking pointed out to me that not many jews are in banking either. Maybe some have taken risks and lead some. But most jews are not in banking, even though they are great financially. I don't know alot about it so didn't really argue with him on that, suffice it to say that he knows what's going on better than anybody I know.
Look how arty jews are but not many jews are in the arts.
Jews look for safe professions, meaning, financially secure, so that they are in the best position to raise a family, pay for jewish education, kosher food. So many become accountants, lawyers, doctors, dentists.
Yes you can find them somewhere on the siteActually they do if you take % of Jews in the U.S. of military age and thats not alot due to the large amount of Jews who marry later in life then general population.And if you consider the extremely low Birth rate among Jews they do serve in proportion
This was my brothers friend from memphis where my brother lived he s on their list http://www.jewsingreen.com/home/blog/comments/another_jewish_marine_kia/
This is site
http://www.jewsingreen.com/
Do you have any specific numbers, mord? I couldn't find them on that site.
horselady: "The answers I see here seem to say that Jews are too good to serve in the military nowadays. Let someone else do it. If anyone has exact numbers ofMassuhDGoodName I know HORSELADY from another site believe she's no anti semite as a matter of fact i think she's Jewish
Jews in uniform right now, I wish you could provide them. As the OP states, Jews of my father's generation served proudly in great numbers. I'm just
wondering why that isn't the case anymore?
Could it be because most Jews are liberals and we know what liberals think about the military?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YOU ARE A NAZI TROLL, horselady!
No one who is a friend of the Jewish People ask questions such as this one, a veiled ultimatum to "answer the charges of your neo-Nazi friends at your other forums", pretending that you really don't know how to answer such allegations from your friends.
CONSIDER YOURSELF OUTED!
WE JEWS WERE FIGHTING THE BATTLE OF JERICHO AT THE TIME YOUR ANCESTORS WERE WORSHIPPING OAK TREES AND YOUR PROPHETS WERE WITCHES WHO READ BONES.
With all due respect, mord,Iknow Horselady from pw for about4yrs not for just a yr or so
Knowing someone from another site, means you don't know the very first thing about them.
Have no lessons been learned by the forum's recent fiascos?...brought on by those "invited here by people who vouched for them as being on the same website together?"
Re: "You think she's Jewish"
If that were true she/he/it neither be posting such questions, nor responding to the answers in such a fashion.
horselady: "The answers I see here seem to say that Jews are too good to serve in the military nowadays. Let someone else do it. If anyone has exact numbers of
Jews in uniform right now, I wish you could provide them. As the OP states, Jews of my father's generation served proudly in great numbers. I'm just
wondering why that isn't the case anymore?
Could it be because most Jews are liberals and we know what liberals think about the military?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YOU ARE A NAZI TROLL, horselady!
No one who is a friend of the Jewish People ask questions such as this one, a veiled ultimatum to "answer the charges of your neo-Nazi friends at your other forums", pretending that you really don't know how to answer such allegations from your friends.
CONSIDER YOURSELF OUTED!
WE JEWS WERE FIGHTING THE BATTLE OF JERICHO AT THE TIME YOUR ANCESTORS WERE WORSHIPPING OAK TREES AND YOUR PROPHETS WERE WITCHES WHO READ BONES.
I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
I tried to sign up, but they refused to accept me.
My Dad was a Marine.
Those people asking "Why aren't Jews in the Military?" are most often the same people who believe that Jews "control" every aspect of life..
For example: "Roosevelt was a Jew", "Rockefeller is Jew", "Rumsfeld is really Jewish" "All bankers are Jews" "Jews control Wall Street" "Jews started every war in history" "Hitler's Dad was a Jew!"...etc.
Then while Jews are in fact in uniform actively engaged in two theatres of war today representing all branches of the military, the same folks obsessed with Jews suddenly are unable to see Jews.
Anyone believing that Jews make up a substantial portion of the American populace only believe this falsehood because the tiny percentage of Jews are such high achievers in every profession and occupation in which they engage.
I never said Jews were not in the military, I simply asked why there are not more of them? I am trying to get exact figures but I'm sure that
they do not represent their percentage of the population. I face the Israel/Jew haters everyday on other boards and I have to answer this question
all the time, especially when people bring up names like Wolfowitz and others in government who are happy to send us into war but who have never
served. Just saying that Jewish mothers don't raise their kids to be soldiers is kind of a flip answer and the only way I shut them up is to tell them
about all the men in my family who have served.
The answers I see here seem to say that Jews are too good to serve in the military nowadays. Let someone else do it. If anyone has exact numbers of
Jews in uniform right now, I wish you could provide them. As the OP states, Jews of my father's generation served proudly in great numbers. I'm just
wondering why that isn't the case anymore?
Could it be because most Jews are liberals and we know what liberals think about the military?
I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
I tried to sign up, but they refused to accept me.
My Dad was a Marine.
Those people asking "Why aren't Jews in the Military?" are most often the same people who believe that Jews "control" every aspect of life..
For example: "Roosevelt was a Jew", "Rockefeller is Jew", "Rumsfeld is really Jewish" "All bankers are Jews" "Jews control Wall Street" "Jews started every war in history" "Hitler's Dad was a Jew!"...etc.
Then while Jews are in fact in uniform actively engaged in two theatres of war today representing all branches of the military, the same folks obsessed with Jews suddenly are unable to see Jews.
Anyone believing that Jews make up a substantial portion of the American populace only believe this falsehood because the tiny percentage of Jews are such high achievers in every profession and occupation in which they engage.
I never said Jews were not in the military, I simply asked why there are not more of them? I am trying to get exact figures but I'm sure that
they do not represent their percentage of the population. I face the Israel/Jew haters everyday on other boards and I have to answer this question
all the time, especially when people bring up names like Wolfowitz and others in government who are happy to send us into war but who have never
served. Just saying that Jewish mothers don't raise their kids to be soldiers is kind of a flip answer and the only way I shut them up is to tell them
about all the men in my family who have served.
The answers I see here seem to say that Jews are too good to serve in the military nowadays. Let someone else do it. If anyone has exact numbers of
Jews in uniform right now, I wish you could provide them. As the OP states, Jews of my father's generation served proudly in great numbers. I'm just
wondering why that isn't the case anymore?
Could it be because most Jews are liberals and we know what liberals think about the military?
^^^Yes, to your last statement. Jews ARE NATURAL BORN fighters, leftism infiltrated into the Jewish people here in the USA.. People ALWAYS bring that RIDICULOUS argument- ALL of my family, on ALL sides served, My Sister, mother and myself, were forbidden by my Nana- which she lives to regret regarding me, I LIVE for a fight. My Nana was the ONLY Leftist Dem, SUX- My cousins ALL served, male AND female, my cousin Kymberly- was a Marine CAPT. this makes me VERY MAD. I was ROTC MARINES- BFD, and NOT for long cuz of my nana. I volunteered at FT ORD 7th Infantry DIV. I am an Honorary SGT. I won the FORSCOM, and did many things during the Persian Gulf and Panama.
I WISH I was over there killing the muZ- NOBODY would question a female about the R.O.E.
I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
I am an Israeli, and have always lived in Israel. However I believe that every Jew should be loyal to Israel first, to his country of residence second. If America goes to war with Israel, which side would you take? I have stated in my previous post that Jews should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis in WWII, since it was obviously in the best interest of the Jews. Jews shouldn't have fought in WWI in either side. My family originates from central Europe and they fought for the central power, how stupid is that? My great uncle who had lost his leg fighting for Austria was later murdered in Auschwitz.
horselady: "The answers I see here seem to say that Jews are too good to serve in the military nowadays. Let someone else do it. If anyone has exact numbers of
Jews in uniform right now, I wish you could provide them. As the OP states, Jews of my father's generation served proudly in great numbers. I'm just
wondering why that isn't the case anymore?
Could it be because most Jews are liberals and we know what liberals think about the military?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YOU ARE A NAZI TROLL, horselady!
No one who is a friend of the Jewish People ask questions such as this one, a veiled ultimatum to "answer the charges of your neo-Nazi friends at your other forums", pretending that you really don't know how to answer such allegations from your friends.
CONSIDER YOURSELF OUTED!
WE JEWS WERE FIGHTING THE BATTLE OF JERICHO AT THE TIME YOUR ANCESTORS WERE WORSHIPPING OAK TREES AND YOUR PROPHETS WERE WITCHES WHO READ BONES.
Horselady- I can tell you flat out- that even though ALL of my family served, and I have done what I could, this new movement of Anti-Jew DOES NOT CARE. They consider ALL Jews as a menace to society- and this is the truth. You saw it with "ClassicWoman" (I think that is her name) on the other forum you are on. There is NO changing her mindset. I WILL PROTECT EVERY SINGLE JEW. Left OR right, If I have had to, and this is BAD for these Anti-Jew people, I AM NOT a force to be reckoned with, I have MANY high ranking officers as great friends, and they WILL be with me, should ANYTHING EVER happen to me. You know how Christians say: "Christian & Gd first" country second? IT IS THE EXACT same for Jewish people, as it should be. I RARELY meet a person as patriotic as myself, which I DO have witness, David ben Moshe knows me, VERY well- personally.
I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
When Moshiach is here, or at least a reasonably strong and bold religious Jew were to become the Prime Minister of Israel, I would certainly fight on the side of Israel. America is a wonderful country and certainly the country under which Judaism was allowed to flourish while other nations kept us down. But I am a dreamer of Zion which doesnt exist at the moment. I know it can exist, and I daven for this to happen each day. I don't think it will come to this, though Tamar Yonah on A7 news has made comparisons of GW Bush to Gog in the prophecy regarding coming of Moshiach. I dont always agree with her but it is an interesting thing to consider.
I am a Jew first, and an American second because my thoughts and actions are Jewish at all times. I dont find that current American values fit my value system. I was sucked into the dark underbelly of American culture and through a miracle I was able to escape that hell. As a BT I should not talk about my past.
But I will defend America against its enemies. I have worked in the defense industry working in high technology weaponry which is currently being used by the American defense department. I really hope this is not what will happen.
muman613
Horselady for whatever it's worth, you can remind those anti-Semites that Pat Buchanan is also a draft dodger. When he was called upon to serve in Vietnam, he made up some cockamamie excuse about having bad knees. But blogger Debbie Schlussel says that was a crock since he was known for taking up jogging.
Also, members of Debbie's family have served in the military as well.
Why would anyone want to serve in the U.S. military?I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
IF, and that's a very big if, America went to war with Israel, I would have to side with Israel. Until then, I am an American first, Jew second.
If I felt as you do, I would definitely be living in Israel now.
Horselady- I can tell you flat out- that even though ALL of my family served, and I have done what I could, this new movement of Anti-Jew DOES NOT CARE. They consider ALL Jews as a menace to society- and this is the truth. You saw it with "ClassicWoman" (I think that is her name) on the other forum you are on. There is NO changing her mindset. I WILL PROTECT EVERY SINGLE JEW. Left OR right, If I have had to, and this is BAD for these Anti-Jew people, I AM NOT a force to be reckoned with, I have MANY high ranking officers as great friends, and they WILL be with me, should ANYTHING EVER happen to me. You know how Christians say: "Christian & Gd first" country second? IT IS THE EXACT same for Jewish people, as it should be. I RARELY meet a person as patriotic as myself, which I DO have witness, David ben Moshe knows me, VERY well- personally.
Yes, I know that, which is why I was hoping to be able to refute the notion that Jews are underrepresented in the military.
I defend the Jewish people in every way I can on almost a daily basis. This is the one area about which I never could
present a strong argument. Although the "liberal Jewish" explanation seems to work best.
Horselady- I can tell you flat out- that even though ALL of my family served, and I have done what I could, this new movement of Anti-Jew DOES NOT CARE. They consider ALL Jews as a menace to society- and this is the truth. You saw it with "ClassicWoman" (I think that is her name) on the other forum you are on. There is NO changing her mindset. I WILL PROTECT EVERY SINGLE JEW. Left OR right, If I have had to, and this is BAD for these Anti-Jew people, I AM NOT a force to be reckoned with, I have MANY high ranking officers as great friends, and they WILL be with me, should ANYTHING EVER happen to me. You know how Christians say: "Christian & Gd first" country second? IT IS THE EXACT same for Jewish people, as it should be. I RARELY meet a person as patriotic as myself, which I DO have witness, David ben Moshe knows me, VERY well- personally.
Yes, I know that, which is why I was hoping to be able to refute the notion that Jews are underrepresented in the military.
I defend the Jewish people in every way I can on almost a daily basis. This is the one area about which I never could
present a strong argument. Although the "liberal Jewish" explanation seems to work best.
they DONT care- at all. TRUST me, they DONT, I have email threads FULL of them. They hate ALL Jews- ALL OF THEM. There is NO refuting to this madness. They will NOT listen, they are operating in a heart of murder now. Oh well- FINE..
I suggest if they try to kill me, they better be ready for an army FIST & Batallian Commander to Praise the Lrd and pass the ammunition right in their direction. ;) And I will be the one TARGETING THEM. JEWS WILL NOT SIT BACK THIS TIME. Over 1,900 yrs of SLAUGHTER gets to a people.....after awhile..... >:( the "Tolerence" IS GONE. these people had BETTER read their book- and SEE what An ANGRY G-D can do, when an EVIL people rise up against Jews, that are CRYING OUT to HaShem- this will NOT be pretty- uh- 10 plagues? Frogs? Firstborn males? Jews are CRYING out to G-d and HE IS LISTENING to their CRIES. NOT good for these nazis. BE AFRAID. BE VERY AFRID.
Why would anyone want to serve in the U.S. military?I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
IF, and that's a very big if, America went to war with Israel, I would have to side with Israel. Until then, I am an American first, Jew second.
If I felt as you do, I would definitely be living in Israel now.
To help Muslims in the Balkans?
To help prop-up a Muslim government in Iraq?
You can think of yourself as an American first all you want to, but when push comes to shove you will be seen as a Jew first.
You should really see the movie Sunshine http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM (http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM) which depicts the struggles of a Jewish family in Hungary trying to assimilate over 3 generations, but no matter what they do including change their name and convert to Catholicism they are seen as Jews and end up in the Death Camps.
Why would anyone want to serve in the U.S. military?I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
IF, and that's a very big if, America went to war with Israel, I would have to side with Israel. Until then, I am an American first, Jew second.
If I felt as you do, I would definitely be living in Israel now.
To help Muslims in the Balkans?
To help prop-up a Muslim government in Iraq?
You can think of yourself as an American first all you want to, but when push comes to shove you will be seen as a Jew first.
You should really see the movie Sunshine http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM (http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM) which depicts the struggles of a Jewish family in Hungary trying to assimilate over 3 generations, but no matter what they do including change their name and convert to Catholicism they are seen as Jews and end up in the Death Camps.
I have a problem with that attitude. I consider myself a patriot and if I had it to do all over, I would serve in the military as my
husband, brother, and father did. This country has been the best country in the world (next to Israel) for Jews and
serving in the military is one way to show appreciation for that.
Why would anyone want to serve in the U.S. military?I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
It that's how you feel, you should move there and give up your American citizenship.
American Jews proudly served in WWII and did fight the Nazis. With whom do you think they should have fought in WWII?
When someone asks you your nationality, do you answer American or Israeli?
IF, and that's a very big if, America went to war with Israel, I would have to side with Israel. Until then, I am an American first, Jew second.
If I felt as you do, I would definitely be living in Israel now.
To help Muslims in the Balkans?
To help prop-up a Muslim government in Iraq?
You can think of yourself as an American first all you want to, but when push comes to shove you will be seen as a Jew first.
You should really see the movie Sunshine http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM (http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Ralph-Fiennes/dp/B00005ALMM) which depicts the struggles of a Jewish family in Hungary trying to assimilate over 3 generations, but no matter what they do including change their name and convert to Catholicism they are seen as Jews and end up in the Death Camps.
I have a problem with that attitude. I consider myself a patriot and if I had it to do all over, I would serve in the military as my
husband, brother, and father did. This country has been the best country in the world (next to Israel) for Jews and
serving in the military is one way to show appreciation for that.
Jews in Germany who fought for the Kaiser thought the same thing.
The whole point is that there are not Jewish-Americans, but simply Jews living in America at the grace of the majority of people, which can be revoked at anytime.
Look at Crown Heights and how quickly a progrom in America took place and no one did anything.
Mord, it is only secular Jews that have a very low birthrate. Religious Jews, even in America, have an extremely high birthrate. In fact, super-devout Jews have the highest birthrate of any religious group in the world, Muslims included.Yes but those ultra orthodox Jews don'nt serve in any military including Israel.
That's not true. Soldiers in IDF elite units, like the Golani, are disproportionately religious Jews.Oh i thought you meant chssids like satmar ;D yes national religous serve in a higher %then anyone else in Israel
It is only some of the Haredim sects that refuse to serve, not all religious Jews.
I think Jews should only serve in a Jewish army, they shouldn't get involved in goyim's wars unless it is for the defrense and well being of the Jews (i.e ww1 - Jews shouldn't have get involved, ww2- they should have fought in allied armies against the Nazis).
Jews may live in America, but their motherland is Israel.
I oppose that, we live in America enjoying the constitutional rights granted to us, we should be eligible to fight for the country we live in to defend her. Doesn't matter what the persons background is.
Horselady- I can tell you flat out- that even though ALL of my family served, and I have done what I could, this new movement of Anti-Jew DOES NOT CARE. They consider ALL Jews as a menace to society- and this is the truth. You saw it with "ClassicWoman" (I think that is her name) on the other forum you are on. There is NO changing her mindset. I WILL PROTECT EVERY SINGLE JEW. Left OR right, If I have had to, and this is BAD for these Anti-Jew people, I AM NOT a force to be reckoned with, I have MANY high ranking officers as great friends, and they WILL be with me, should ANYTHING EVER happen to me. You know how Christians say: "Christian & Gd first" country second? IT IS THE EXACT same for Jewish people, as it should be. I RARELY meet a person as patriotic as myself, which I DO have witness, David ben Moshe knows me, VERY well- personally.
Yes, I know that, which is why I was hoping to be able to refute the notion that Jews are underrepresented in the military.
I defend the Jewish people in every way I can on almost a daily basis. This is the one area about which I never could
present a strong argument. Although the "liberal Jewish" explanation seems to work best.
they DONT care- at all. TRUST me, they DONT, I have email threads FULL of them. They hate ALL Jews- ALL OF THEM. There is NO refuting to this madness. They will NOT listen, they are operating in a heart of murder now. Oh well- FINE..
I suggest if they try to kill me, they better be ready for an army FIST & Batallian Commander to Praise the Lrd and pass the ammunition right in their direction. ;) And I will be the one TARGETING THEM. JEWS WILL NOT SIT BACK THIS TIME. Over 1,900 yrs of SLAUGHTER gets to a people.....after awhile..... >:( the "Tolerence" IS GONE. these people had BETTER read their book- and SEE what An ANGRY G-D can do, when an EVIL people rise up against Jews, that are CRYING OUT to HaShem- this will NOT be pretty- uh- 10 plagues? Frogs? Firstborn males? Jews are CRYING out to G-d and HE IS LISTENING to their CRIES. NOT good for these nazis. BE AFRAID. BE VERY AFRID.
Well yes, there are those people too. I don't try to argue with the obvious anti-semites too much, because it is a waste of time.
But people often have legitimate questions about Jews that I try to answer as best I can.
I'd like to think that Jews would not sit back and take it this time, but then again, there are an awful lot of them (liberal Jews) in Israel
who seem ready to give up everything rather than fight. I hope their numbers aren't greater than the Zionists there now.
I met an Israeli Jew on another board and he was all for making more concessions to the Palestinians. I had a hard time believing he
was a Jew at all, but got I banned before I could find out.
When Moshiach is here, or at least a reasonably strong and bold religious Jew were to become the Prime Minister of Israel, I would certainly fight on the side of Israel. America is a wonderful country and certainly the country under which Judaism was allowed to flourish while other nations kept us down. But I am a dreamer of Zion which doesnt exist at the moment. I know it can exist, and I daven for this to happen each day. I don't think it will come to this, though Tamar Yonah on A7 news has made comparisons of GW Bush to Gog in the prophecy regarding coming of Moshiach. I dont always agree with her but it is an interesting thing to consider.
I am a Jew first, and an American second because my thoughts and actions are Jewish at all times. I dont find that current American values fit my value system. I was sucked into the dark underbelly of American culture and through a miracle I was able to escape that hell. As a BT I should not talk about my past.
But I will defend America against its enemies. I have worked in the defense industry working in high technology weaponry which is currently being used by the American defense department. I really hope this is not what will happen.
muman613
I can respect and understand that. What is a "BT?"
Baal teshuva (Hebrew: בעל תשובה; for a woman: בעלת תשובה, baalat teshuva; plural: בעלי תשובה, baalei teshuva), sometimes abbreviated to BT, is a Hebrew term referring to a person who has repented. Baal teshuva can be translated idiomatically as "one who has done repentance." Informally, it is often contrasted with "FFB," i.e Frum From Birth.
The term historically referred to a Jew who had transgressed the Halakha ("Jewish law") and completed a process of introspection and "returned" to the straight path. However, in contemporary times, the phrase is primarily used to refer to a Jew from a secular background who has become religiously observant (normally in an orthodox fashion) later in life. (The alternative term "chozer b'teshuva" (חוזר בתשובה) is more common in Israel). There are numerous baal teshuva movements and organisations that seek to encourage this.
The Talmud expresses high regard of Baalei teshuva, by stating that "the position where Baalei teshuva attain; even Tzadikim gemurim (those who were always righteous) cannot attain".
(Didn't real the post just the last 2, maybe will later)
To mum- what you are describing is Hozer Bitshuva (or something like that, I know I got the first part right) a Baal Tishuva is someone who wasn't raised religious and then becomes religios and does the Mitzvot (well at least that is the least level, while others like Rabbi Mizrachi and Rabbi Yakov Hillel- (the biggest Kabbalist today) has much higher standard of a real (ultimate) Baal Tishuva- the one that is described as better then a perfect Tzaddik from birth.
To Paulette- No one should fear anyone or anything even death. We should only fear 1 thing or being and that is G-d.
Jews in Germany who fought for the Kaiser thought the same thing.
The whole point is that there are not Jewish-Americans, but simply Jews living in America at the grace of the majority of people, which can be revoked at anytime.
Look at Crown Heights and how quickly a progrom in America took place and no one did anything.
Horselady, I have nothing but the highest level of honor and respect for anyone putting on a uniform, but I have to agree with all of the critics of the U.S. military here. The Armed Forces of the United States have become a politically-correct joke in the past 15 years. It started with Bill Clinton having our elite paratroopers dragged through the streets of Mogadishu to feed the starving Somali Muslim Nazis. Then, it got worse, as he sent our forces into action to commit genocide against Serbia. Finally, we have five years of quagmire in Iraq and seven in Afghanistan--both against two-bit foes that wouldn't have lasted three weeks against the U.S. Army of 1945 or even 1991.
Our boys and girls are getting murdered for nothing, because Dubya doesn't want to do anything that would harm so-called Muzzie "civilians", because that would offend his Saudi overlords. I will never support the bravest and most heroic of America's sons and daughters dying to save Muslim Nazis, or because they were forbidden to fight back agains them when getting shot at. We have a president who values al-Qaeda butchers over his own citizens.
I can respect and understand that. What is a "BT?"
Horselady,
BT is an acronym for the term "Baal Teshuva" or a "Master of Return". We use this name for a Jew who leaves the religion and goes off the path. In his/her later life he comes back to his faith. In some respects this is compared to the "Born again" phenomenon in Christianity.
muman613
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_teshuvaQuoteBaal teshuva (Hebrew: בעל תשובה; for a woman: בעלת תשובה, baalat teshuva; plural: בעלי תשובה, baalei teshuva), sometimes abbreviated to BT, is a Hebrew term referring to a person who has repented. Baal teshuva can be translated idiomatically as "one who has done repentance." Informally, it is often contrasted with "FFB," i.e Frum From Birth.
The term historically referred to a Jew who had transgressed the Halakha ("Jewish law") and completed a process of introspection and "returned" to the straight path. However, in contemporary times, the phrase is primarily used to refer to a Jew from a secular background who has become religiously observant (normally in an orthodox fashion) later in life. (The alternative term "chozer b'teshuva" (חוזר בתשובה) is more common in Israel). There are numerous baal teshuva movements and organisations that seek to encourage this.
The Talmud expresses high regard of Baalei teshuva, by stating that "the position where Baalei teshuva attain; even Tzadikim gemurim (those who were always righteous) cannot attain".
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
C.F. - I think we have a PC military policy so as not to offend PC America. Not Saudi overlords. We have become a weak nation. That is the one thing I really fault President Bush for when it comes to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He should have told civilians to clear out of troubled areas and then leveled them. We were going to rebuild them anyway. We always do.Horselady, I have nothing but the highest level of honor and respect for anyone putting on a uniform, but I have to agree with all of the critics of the U.S. military here. The Armed Forces of the United States have become a politically-correct joke in the past 15 years. It started with Bill Clinton having our elite paratroopers dragged through the streets of Mogadishu to feed the starving Somali Muslim Nazis. Then, it got worse, as he sent our forces into action to commit genocide against Serbia. Finally, we have five years of quagmire in Iraq and seven in Afghanistan--both against two-bit foes that wouldn't have lasted three weeks against the U.S. Army of 1945 or even 1991.
Our boys and girls are getting murdered for nothing, because Dubya doesn't want to do anything that would harm so-called Muzzie "civilians", because that would offend his Saudi overlords. I will never support the bravest and most heroic of America's sons and daughters dying to save Muslim Nazis, or because they were forbidden to fight back agains them when getting shot at. We have a president who values al-Qaeda butchers over his own citizens.
That's one point of view. I respect that but don't think it's as black and white as you do. I think history will show that GW Bush was
correct in doing what he did.
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
Jews in Germany who fought for the Kaiser thought the same thing.
The whole point is that there are not Jewish-Americans, but simply Jews living in America at the grace of the majority of people, which can be revoked at anytime.
Look at Crown Heights and how quickly a progrom in America took place and no one did anything.
Are you talking about the riots in CH during the term of David Dinkens? You didn't see anything like that when Giuliani took over.
But I would hardly call it a progrom. A bunch of blacks went on a rampage & killed an innocent Jew is a tragedy but hardly does it a
pogrom make. My grandparents knew about pogroms and this wasn't it.
Seriously, though, why do you live here if your loyalty is elsewhere? Seems hypocritical to me.
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
You make some excellent points here Paulette and I am aware of the growing anti-semitism too. But if I felt as strongly as you do about
the fate of Jews here, I would pack my bags and be on a plane to Tel Aviv in a NY minute. I don't understand why all the people here
who have expressed their first loyalty to Israel are sitting here complaining about America. Why are they not taking
their place in Israel to ensure that no more Sharons get in office? Why aren't the young ones over there serving in the Israeli military?
Talk is cheap. Israel needs Jews to emigrate there badly. Those who are Jews first and Americans second should be in the country
they love first and foremost.
When I was in Israel many years ago, the question I was asked most often is would I make aliyah to Israel? I might have if I could
have gotten a job there, but I only speak Japanese and the Japanese embassy there didn't need anyone. Many Israelis said to me,
"Americans shouldn't just send money here, they should move here."
So I'm asking, why don't all you Israel first people go to Israel?
C.F. - I think we have a PC military policy so as not to offend PC America. Not Saudi overlords. We have become a weak nation. That is the one thing I really fault President Bush for when it comes to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He should have told civilians to clear out of troubled areas and then leveled them. We were going to rebuild them anyway. We always do.I (respectfully) disagree. This isn't Israel. America is not at the level of brainwashing yet where we are all indoctrinated to think that the highest good is to spare the lives of those who want to kill us. There is not a vast constituency here who is in favor of coddling terrorists and sparing Muslim "civilians". I guarantee you that most Americans want to see all terrorists and those who support them dead. The problem is that we are not an ideological nation at all--in fact, we are dead last in philosophy and culture of the developed West. We are purely consumeristic, hedonistic, and self-seeking. That has spared us, so far, from the full extent of self-hate seen in Israel and Western Europe, but of course it is still far from ideal a place to be.
Who's policy/plan was he following?
I sense a Colin Powell influence. Isn't he the reason why we left Iraq the first go round?
The American people should grow a backbone and demand the full might of the American military be unleashed - so we can really afford to bring our troops home.
All presidents fall under the influence of the forces around them to some extent. Look at Clinton and the whole issue of giving missile technology to the Chinese. This is something I feel was far worse than anything Bush Jr. or Senior ever did. Bush has not been the greatest on key issues but then again we could have done far worse. More and more I come to believe that it is the Pentagon that wanted us to have a footprint in that part of the world Bush only implemented the policy. America is to dependent on foreign oil. Its easy to say we should not be importing oil from that part of the world but when the lights don't go on in your home, the toilet wont flush and the refrigerator is warm you may feel somewhat different. I can't stand the Arabs and I detest the fact that our government has allowed us to become so dependent on them for a commodity that fuels almost everything we touch here in America. While it is possible to transition away from this dependence its not going to happen over night. The Saudis are heavily invested in America and in some ways are as dependent on us as we are on them. They walk a fine line between their Arab brothers and their business relationship with America. As much as they may hate America they can't do without it. The vast amounts of oil they have is the only thing that has stopped other countries from putting a strangle hold on our economy. In the past 20 years since the last shortage they have always pumped enough oil to avoid any shortage without causing prices to collapse. Its a deal with the devil but we have bigger devils such as a congress that turns its back on domestic production. This is the people that Americans should really look on as the problem. If you really want to understand the relationship between the Bush Family and the Saudi Royals look for a book called House of Bush House of Saud by Craig Unger. I picked up an audio book in the dollar store of it and thought it might be a annoying propaganda rant but it was very informative ISBN 0-7435-3718-1 It runs six hours.Horselady, I have nothing but the highest level of honor and respect for anyone putting on a uniform, but I have to agree with all of the critics of the U.S. military here. The Armed Forces of the United States have become a politically-correct joke in the past 15 years. It started with Bill Clinton having our elite paratroopers dragged through the streets of Mogadishu to feed the starving Somali Muslim Nazis. Then, it got worse, as he sent our forces into action to commit genocide against Serbia. Finally, we have five years of quagmire in Iraq and seven in Afghanistan--both against two-bit foes that wouldn't have lasted three weeks against the U.S. Army of 1945 or even 1991.
Our boys and girls are getting murdered for nothing, because Dubya doesn't want to do anything that would harm so-called Muzzie "civilians", because that would offend his Saudi overlords. I will never support the bravest and most heroic of America's sons and daughters dying to save Muslim Nazis, or because they were forbidden to fight back agains them when getting shot at. We have a president who values al-Qaeda butchers over his own citizens.
That's one point of view. I respect that but don't think it's as black and white as you do. I think history will show that GW Bush was
correct in doing what he did.
All presidents fall under the influence of the forces around them to some extent. Look at Clinton and the whole issue of giving missile technology to the Chinese. This is something I feel was far worse than anything Bush Jr. or Senior ever did. Bush has not been the greatest on key issues but then again we could have done far worse. More and more I come to believe that it is the Pentagon that wanted us to have a footprint in that part of the world Bush only implemented the policy. America is to dependent on foreign oil. Its easy to say we should not be importing oil from that part of the world but when the lights don't go on in your home, the toilet wont flush and the refrigerator is warm you may feel somewhat different. I can't stand the Arabs and I detest the fact that our government has allowed us to become so dependent on them for a commodity that fuels almost everything we touch here in America. While it is possible to transition away from this dependence its not going to happen over night. The Saudis are heavily invested in America and in some ways are as dependent on us as we are on them. They walk a fine line between their Arab brothers and their business relationship with America. As much as they may hate America they can't do without it. The vast amounts of oil they have is the only thing that has stopped other countries from putting a strangle hold on our economy. In the past 20 years since the last shortage they have always pumped enough oil to avoid any shortage without causing prices to collapse. Its a deal with the devil but we have bigger devils such as a congress that turns its back on domestic production. This is the people that Americans should really look on as the problem. If you really want to understand the relationship between the Bush Family and the Saudi Royals look for a book called House of Bush House of Saud by Craig Unger. I picked up an audio book in the dollar store of it and thought it might be a annoying propaganda rant but it was very informative ISBN 0-7435-3718-1 It runs six hours.
Horselady:
JTF doesn't believe Israelis should serve in the IDF either. Everything that sucks about the U.S. military of today and more is also true of the Israeli army, navy, and air force. If you think U.S. soldiers are indoctrinated from head to toe about how great Muslim "civilians" are and why we should respect their gutter religion, you haven't seen Israel. These days, it's far more likely that the average Israeli infantry conscript will be sent to kick Jews out of their homes than to fight Arabs. In fact, quite a few kapo Israeli "refuseniks" will not serve on any mission in any Arab neighborhood or territory (and of course, they go completely unpunished). This crap is the reason why Chaim would prefer that people not join the Israeli military, right now. It is just not worth it. It has nothing to do with "America first" or "Israel first".
I guess so. Israel certainly showed that it didn't have the will to beat 1500 militiamen two years ago. Doubt if anything has changed since.
What makes Israel worse than America is that in addition to being manipulated and oppressed by a corrupt regime, the public has actually swallowed their "be nice to Arabs" crap. :( Like Chaim would say, it's doubtful that most Jews today have the stomach to just go kill all the terrorists.
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
You make some excellent points here Paulette and I am aware of the growing anti-semitism too. But if I felt as strongly as you do about
the fate of Jews here, I would pack my bags and be on a plane to Tel Aviv in a NY minute. I don't understand why all the people here
who have expressed their first loyalty to Israel are sitting here complaining about America. Why are they not taking
their place in Israel to ensure that no more Sharons get in office? Why aren't the young ones over there serving in the Israeli military?
Talk is cheap. Israel needs Jews to emigrate there badly. Those who are Jews first and Americans second should be in the country
they love first and foremost.
When I was in Israel many years ago, the question I was asked most often is would I make aliyah to Israel? I might have if I could
have gotten a job there, but I only speak Japanese and the Japanese embassy there didn't need anyone. Many Israelis said to me,
"Americans shouldn't just send money here, they should move here."
So I'm asking, why don't all you Israel first people go to Israel?
Many Jews here will ride out this storm, so that Jerusalem does not come under siege, and we will use all of our influence and power to make sure that USA does not turn its back on Israel- ALSO- the JTF does NOT want US GOVT $$$ going to Israel, it ENABLES palestinians..
On my fathers side of the family, we have been here over 350 yrs. (IF) USA attacks Israel, I WILL LEAVE, b/c I will NOT stay for the complete devastation and total wrath of Gd. (IF) I even detect this coming, I WILL talk with My David to make Aliyah ASAP. And I mean FAST. Jews will ALWAYS be for Israel 1st. Are we ALL suppose to leave USA, because our hearts and spirits yearn? I dont think so. Christian people yearn for Eternity, I believe, should we tell them to commit suicide, to hurry up along their way? OR, stay in their churches and just dont come out?
A friend of mine in banking pointed out to me that not many jews are in banking either. Maybe some have taken risks and lead some. But most jews are not in banking, even though they are great financially. I don't know alot about it so didn't really argue with him on that, suffice it to say that he knows what's going on better than anybody I know.
Look how arty jews are but not many jews are in the arts.
Jews look for safe professions, meaning, financially secure, so that they are in the best position to raise a family, pay for jewish education, kosher food. So many become accountants, lawyers, doctors, dentists.
Your obnoxious Nazi terminology is getting on my nerves: "America first", "Israel first" - this is the language the Nazis use. The "America First" movement were open supporters of Hitler in the 1930s. The Nazis of today like Pat Buchanan and David Duke accuse the Jews of putting "Israel first". You use the same exact terminology and make the same exact Hitlerite allegations.
If you are not a Nazi troll, then you are a self-hating Jew.
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
You make some excellent points here Paulette and I am aware of the growing anti-semitism too. But if I felt as strongly as you do about
the fate of Jews here, I would pack my bags and be on a plane to Tel Aviv in a NY minute. I don't understand why all the people here
who have expressed their first loyalty to Israel are sitting here complaining about America. Why are they not taking
their place in Israel to ensure that no more Sharons get in office? Why aren't the young ones over there serving in the Israeli military?
Talk is cheap. Israel needs Jews to emigrate there badly. Those who are Jews first and Americans second should be in the country
they love first and foremost.
When I was in Israel many years ago, the question I was asked most often is would I make aliyah to Israel? I might have if I could
have gotten a job there, but I only speak Japanese and the Japanese embassy there didn't need anyone. Many Israelis said to me,
"Americans shouldn't just send money here, they should move here."
So I'm asking, why don't all you Israel first people go to Israel?
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
You make some excellent points here Paulette and I am aware of the growing anti-semitism too. But if I felt as strongly as you do about
the fate of Jews here, I would pack my bags and be on a plane to Tel Aviv in a NY minute. I don't understand why all the people here
who have expressed their first loyalty to Israel are sitting here complaining about America. Why are they not taking
their place in Israel to ensure that no more Sharons get in office? Why aren't the young ones over there serving in the Israeli military?
Talk is cheap. Israel needs Jews to emigrate there badly. Those who are Jews first and Americans second should be in the country
they love first and foremost.
When I was in Israel many years ago, the question I was asked most often is would I make aliyah to Israel? I might have if I could
have gotten a job there, but I only speak Japanese and the Japanese embassy there didn't need anyone. Many Israelis said to me,
"Americans shouldn't just send money here, they should move here."
So I'm asking, why don't all you Israel first people go to Israel?
This is a VERY GOOD movie.. People SHOULD see it if you havent. The COMPLETE THREAT of Self-Hating Jews.
(http://www.filmcatcher.com/uploads/img/product/B00049QQJ6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Jews should only serve in the Israeli Army. Jews don't belong in the United States. It would be a shame if a Jew did serve and then died serving a country that he or she has no place in.
Then those who feel that way should live in Israel. Case closed.
Horselady- With Anti-Semitism on the rise here in America, 10x worse than it has EVER been, and neo-nazis siding with palestenians, and obama, just because of INSANE hatred of Jews- Economic Woes, and IRRESPONSIBLITY of govt. spending, and all of these freaks saying: "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS" which I see ALL of the time, constantly, Jews beaten up by neo-nazi demon satanists, just where exactly does the Jew have a home? And THEN we are told that we have to "give up" OUR OWN HOMELAND- 1900 plus years of murderous pagan devils slaughtering our ancestors, is there ANY reason WHY we should NOT be on the Offense, Defense off the fence and fighting all over, anywhere- everywhere, because we have had ENOUGH....? Jews DO serve in the Military, but the HEART of the JEW IS IN Israel, and you being Jewish SHOULD GET this, Totally- 100%. I am the STRONGEST patriot I myself have even met- my love for America is MY SOUL, however, Israel is MY HEART. Israel is Prophecy that has come to pass. IF we are NOT careful here in America, and turn our backs against the Jews and Israel, we WILL face the Wrath of G-d. Some people forget, I dont- Ariel sharon, gives up Gaza, shakes Bushs hand- a week later, we get Katrina, and Sharon in a Coma for the remaining of his days. As I stated, we should have a more 'healthy' fear of Gd, and enemies should be AFRAID.
Also- the kkk, and these other wacko sickos ie: C.I., Stormfuggers, etc.., ARE joining the military by the droves, b/c their wizard freak leaders are telling them to LEARN combat, so they can come back and defeat the Jews in America- THIS..............is the TRUTH. So, HOW is a Jew even protected in the military? By the left? I DONT THINK SO.
You make some excellent points here Paulette and I am aware of the growing anti-semitism too. But if I felt as strongly as you do about
the fate of Jews here, I would pack my bags and be on a plane to Tel Aviv in a NY minute. I don't understand why all the people here
who have expressed their first loyalty to Israel are sitting here complaining about America. Why are they not taking
their place in Israel to ensure that no more Sharons get in office? Why aren't the young ones over there serving in the Israeli military?
Talk is cheap. Israel needs Jews to emigrate there badly. Those who are Jews first and Americans second should be in the country
they love first and foremost.
When I was in Israel many years ago, the question I was asked most often is would I make aliyah to Israel? I might have if I could
have gotten a job there, but I only speak Japanese and the Japanese embassy there didn't need anyone. Many Israelis said to me,
"Americans shouldn't just send money here, they should move here."
So I'm asking, why don't all you Israel first people go to Israel?
This is a VERY GOOD movie.. People SHOULD see it if you havent. The COMPLETE THREAT of Self-Hating Jews.
(http://www.filmcatcher.com/uploads/img/product/B00049QQJ6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
I downloaded the movie a few months ago, it was a good movie, but personally I think the sex scene ruined it and left a bad taste in my mouth, if you can ignore that, it shows a pretty realistic image of how Jews will do anything to appease the enemy.
Also the movie is somewhat based off a true story but not completely, Based on the real life story of Jewish KKK Wizard Danny Burros (1938-65),
Daniel "Dan" Burros (March 5, 1937 – October 31, 1965) was a former member of the American Nazi Party under former Naval commander George Lincoln Rockwell, who founded the ANP in Arlington, Virginia in 1959. After falling out with Rockwell, he became a kleagle, or recruiter, for the United Klans of America Ku Klux Klan organization in New York State.
After a New York Times reporter named McCandlish Phillips revealed that Dan Burros was, in fact, Jewish, a despondent Burros committed suicide, first by shooting himself in the chest and then in the head. At the time, he was listening to music composed by Richard Wagner.[1]
Dan Burros is sometimes cited as an example of a self-hating Jew. He was also influenced by Francis Parker Yockey's Imperium.[2]
Suspicions that Dan Burros was a Jew began during his tenure in the American Nazi Party. He would sometimes bring knish to the American Nazi Party headquarters and make statements such as "Let's eat this good Jew food!" Burros also frequently spent time with Jewish women. When Rockwell discovered that he was a Jew, he still wished to maintain a relationship with him. However, within two hours of seeing this information printed in the New York Times, Burros took his own life in the Nazi compound where he had been staying.[3]
During a press conference after Burros' death, George Lincoln Rockwell railed against Jews, whom he called "... a unique people with a distinct mass of mental disorders" and ascribed Burros' instability and suicide to "this unfortunate Jewish psychosis".[4]
The story of Dan Burros was the origin of Henry Bean's movie, The Believer. It also inspired an episode of the TV series Lou Grant.
horselady, this thread is grotesque. We do not answer Nazi scum who make anti-Semitic allegations. If not for the Jews, America would not be a superpower. The Jews invented America's nuclear weapons, and the Jews also invented most of America's other great technology without which America would not be a major military power.
Your obnoxious Nazi terminology is getting on my nerves: "America first", "Israel first" - this is the language the Nazis use. The "America First" movement were open supporters of Hitler in the 1930s. The Nazis of today like Pat Buchanan and David Duke accuse the Jews of putting "Israel first". You use the same exact terminology and make the same exact Hitlerite allegations.
If you are not a Nazi troll, then you are a self-hating Jew.
Jews are the reason that America is the worlds greatest country. Their is no doubt about that. Sure America is dwindling now as the third world population increases but the prosperity this country has experienced is no doubt because of jews. Everywhere jews go, they create and build things. And jews do serve in the American army, to say they dont is a lie.O0
I don't necessarily think the topic was wrong in and of itself, but I think it's a bad idea to concede the Nazis' point (that Jews aren't serving proportionately). Seriously, how do we know that they aren't? I would be extremely loath to trust any statistic that shows that they are not.
Horselady is very wrong on this issue. Jews are very loyal to America. They came to this country and built it up.
Jews are the reason that America is the worlds greatest country. Their is no doubt about that. Sure America is dwindling now as the third world population increases but the prosperity this country has experienced is no doubt because of jews. Everywhere jews go, they create and build things. And jews do serve in the American army, to say they dont is a lie.
Jews are the reason that America is the worlds greatest country. Their is no doubt about that. Sure America is dwindling now as the third world population increases but the prosperity this country has experienced is no doubt because of jews. Everywhere jews go, they create and build things. And jews do serve in the American army, to say they dont is a lie.
Yet I have never stated that they do not serve. They have served in great numbers in the past,
but not in recent years. You should re-read the first page.
Probally best summed up with this video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e3_1211132022
unlike israel those officers arent jews but arabs
This country has been the best country in the world to Jews like me and you. Without this country, I don't think Israel
would have become a state when it did.
Without this country, I don't think Israel
would have become a state when it did.
I didn't get the impression that Horselady is a troll not anti-Jewish. However I think that in JTF we believe that there is not such thing as Jewish American, Jewish Filipino, or Jewish even Jewish Israeli. Because Jewish is a nationality as well as a religion. I think that a Jew who adopts a different nationality is beginning the process of assimilation.
Jews must be loyal to America or any other country they live in, however they must also not get too involved in its politics, including wars. If America or any other country doesn't like that, then its Jews should simply leave.
1:10. Shmaayah and Avtalyon received from them. Shmaayah would say: Love work, loath mastery over others, and avoid intimacy with the government.
2:3.Be careful with the government, for they befriend a person only for their own needs. They appear to be friends when it is beneficial to them, but they do not stand by a person at the time of his distress.
3:2. Rabbi Chanina, deputy to the kohanim, would say: Pray for the integrity of the government; for were it not for the fear of its authority, a man would swallow his neighbor alive.
3:5. Rabbi Nechunia the son of Hakanah would say: One who accepts upon himself the yoke of Torah is exempted from the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares; but one who casts off the yoke of Torah is saddled with the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares.
3:11. Rabbi Elazar of Modi'in would say: One who profanes the kodoshim ("holy things" consecrated for the service of G-d in the Holy Temple), degrades the Festivals, humiliates his friend in public, abrogates the covenant of our father Abraham (i.e., circumcision), or who interprets the Torah contrary to its true intent---although he may possess Torah knowledge and good deeds, he has no share in the World to Come.
6:1 Rabbi Meir would say: Whoever studies Torah for Torah's sake alone, merits many things; not only that, but [the creation of] the entire world is worthwhile for him alone. He is called friend, beloved, lover of G-d, lover of humanity, rejoicer of G-d, rejoicer of humanity. The Torah enclothes him with humility and awe; makes him fit to be righteous, pious, correct and faithful; distances him from sin and brings him close to merit. From him, people enjoy counsel and wisdom, understanding and power, as is stated (Proverbs 8:14): "Mine are counsel and wisdom, I am understanding, mine is power." The Torah grants him sovereignty, dominion, and jurisprudence. The Torah's secrets are revealed to him, and he becomes as an ever-increasing wellspring and as an unceasing river. He becomes modest, patient and forgiving of insults. The Torah uplifts him and makes him greater than all creations.
horselady, this thread is grotesque. We do not answer Nazi scum who make anti-Semitic allegations. If not for the Jews, America would not be a superpower. The Jews invented America's nuclear weapons, and the Jews also invented most of America's other great technology without which America would not be a major military power.
Your obnoxious Nazi terminology is getting on my nerves: "America first", "Israel first" - this is the language the Nazis use. The "America First" movement were open supporters of Hitler in the 1930s. The Nazis of today like Pat Buchanan and David Duke accuse the Jews of putting "Israel first". You use the same exact terminology and make the same exact Hitlerite allegations.
If you are not a Nazi troll, then you are a self-hating Jew.
I am neither a troll nor a self-hating Jew. The only Jews I hate are liberal Jews. You don't have to tell me the good Jews
have done for this country. But I get a little sick of hearing about how Jews are too good to serve in our military.
American aid to Israel has been a poison because the U.S. government seeks to undermine Israeli strength in order to appease the oil-soaked Muslims.
The charge of dual loyalty is anti-Semitic. The talk about "Israel firsters" is anti-Semitic.
Jews do not belong in America or any other country outside of Israel. Jews should not be politicians in America or soldiers or anything else. The fact that horselady DEMANDS that Jews serve in the American military, and calls Jews who don't serve "hypocrites" is also anti-Semitic. No loyal Jew would make statements like this.
Horselady says she responds to Nazis who single out Jews for supposedly not serving in the military by saying that Jews don't serve because they're liberals. What a brilliant response! You agree with the Nazi charge about Jews not serving, and you then add that Jews are anti-military liberals - are you trying to recruit for StørmFrønt with "great" arguments like this?
Aren't you the same person who opened a thread saying that you are anti-Semitic? That's also a brilliant argument: "I'm Jewish and even I'm anti-Semitic."
This is sick beyond belief.
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
You don't think patriotism is a good reason?
I see.
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
You don't think patriotism is a good reason?
I see.
ZELHAR IS PATRIOTIC, HE LIVES IN ISRAEL.
(http://rvforsaleguide.com/trip/kids/mad-face-ben-picture.jpg)
STOP BEING A 'HORSES' ARSE!
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
You don't think patriotism is a good reason?
I see.
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
You don't think patriotism is a good reason?
I see.
Muman, thanks for bringing up Pirkey Avot, there is so much wisdom in Chazal's words.
I forgot to mention that IMO Americans Jews can serve in the army if they chose to do so, but not for patriotic (American) reasons but rather as a career, or in times of emergency where their service is required to protect the life and freedom of themselves or of Jews elsewhere.
You don't think patriotism is a good reason?
I see.
I am not even sure if patriotism is a good reason in Israel. Soldiers are always being pawned by politicians, who exploit the fact that soldiers must put aside their ideology and follow orders mindlessly.
Anyway, my view is that a Jew shouldn't be an patriotic American; loyal, law abiding for sure, but not patriotic because it is not his country, he/she is just a resident there.
Chaim, I still am in favor of giving her the benefit of the doubt. I still get the vibe that she spoke naively, and has a conclusion that we would disagree with (that Jews must serve in the military), but nothing more. True--I could be wrong, and I certainly think we should watch her, but we both know I and others have said many careless things on this forum that have been misconstrued.
Wait she was a Troll?
Wait she was a Troll?
Yes, could be there's a good chance that could be true.
I don't see any evidence that horselady is a nazi or a troll.
She's openly said that she's an American first and a Jew second.
While I don't agree with Jews who feel this way, that hardly makes her a nazi.
I think she's being treated unfairly and way too harshly.
Obviously I don't, but if somebody is very naive and mistaken, I just want to be 100% sure before banning them. But I know I don't have a good track record in smelling out trolls. I mistakenly thought muman613 was one (my apologies).
If she is a Nazi, she has done a lot of work to present her taqqiyah.
I don't see any evidence that horselady is a nazi or a troll.
She's openly said that she's an American first and a Jew second.
While I don't agree with Jews who feel this way, that hardly makes her a nazi.
I think she's being treated unfairly and way too harshly.
You need to go back and look at HER posts toward the "JOOOOOOOOOOOOS" here (as SHE states is 'satirical' on HER blog). Look at what Chaim and Massuh observed. HOW do you know that she is NOT a neo- nazi? EVERY website she posts is in my email inbox, EVERY day, from trolls that David ben Moshe and I battle on a Daily basis, EVERY single argument that SHE brings here- is from "White Pride" A. Jones, St0rmfront, C.I. R. Paul (which BTW, is turning TOTALLY nazi) Vanguard, and MANY of these sites believe that Jews do not even belong in Israel, for ie: jewsagainstzionism.com, which SHE brought to this forum, even ADMITTED that she was on those forums, of COURSE she is POISONED, and cant even see the light of day. If, and I MEAN "if" she IS Jewish, she hates her OWN GUTTS.
She called Massuh 'disgusting' when he saw EXACTLY what she was saying, and FLAT OUT slighted and IGNORED Chaim when HE confronted her. There is NO SUCH thing as American First with REAL Jews, OR Real Christians of the different denominations of that faith, it is ALWAYS G-d FIRST, PERIOD.
One of her FIRST posts was: "I am a Jew, why I am 'anti-semitic?'. "" That is 100% OXYMORON and CONTRADICTORY, and NO SUCH thing. You go ahead, and hide your head in the sand, but I personally deal with this crap on a daily basis. I am WITH Chaim and Massuh on this 100%.
I would like for Horselady to reply to this:
Horselady, I stuck up for you. I thought that you were a legitimate poster who was just naive and spoke rashly and poorly. I don't know if I was wrong. A lot of people have been very suspicious of you, and even I have to admit that it's starting to get to be a stretch to see all of this as coincidental.
--You said that America is largely responsible for creating Israel, in effect implying that Jews are obligated to be loyal to the United States.
--You seem to post on a lot of sites where very few legitimate people would even want to look at, much less get involved in.
--Your language, whether or not you intended it as such, is the same that Pat Buchananites use.
I still think that you are a naive Jewish lady who is in over her head, but I am less and less sure of that. Since I still want to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd appreciate you responding to the above thoughtfully.
Chaimfan.
I would like for Horselady to reply to this:
Horselady, I stuck up for you. I thought that you were a legitimate poster who was just naive and spoke rashly and poorly. I don't know if I was wrong. A lot of people have been very suspicious of you, and even I have to admit that it's starting to get to be a stretch to see all of this as coincidental.
--You said that America is largely responsible for creating Israel, in effect implying that Jews are obligated to be loyal to the United States.
--You seem to post on a lot of sites where very few legitimate people would even want to look at, much less get involved in.
--Your language, whether or not you intended it as such, is the same that Pat Buchananites use.
I still think that you are a naive Jewish lady who is in over her head, but I am less and less sure of that. Since I still want to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd appreciate you responding to the above thoughtfully.
Chaimfan.
Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
Let me refer back to the OP where I posted this letter, the one that got me thinking about the issue of Jews in the military.
Here are a few paragraph from the OP link that I referenced. (Maybe you should re-read the whole OP)
Attention: Where are the Jews in the U.S. military?
Maj. RobLevinson
As an active duty Air Force officer currently stationed overseas, and as a Jew who grew up in the Bay Area, it is gratifying to see the overwhelming support the Bay Area Jewish community is showing for our current efforts to fight terrorism. We in the community, closely connected to Israel as we are, have understood the need to fight terror for a long time. Now, unfortunately, this need has tragically been brought home to all Americans. However, while I take great pride in the support the Jewish community is showing, a certain question keeps gnawing at me: Where are the Jews in the United States military?
Try this experiment at your next synagogue service or other Jewish gathering. Ask all the veterans to stand up. My guess is that the average age will be in the 70s as the proud veterans of World War II represent the majority. Then ask those who have a son or daughter, grandson or granddaughter who is a veteran or serving on active duty to stand up. Finally, ask those who currently know somebody serving on active duty to stand up as well. Sadly my guess is that the groups of people answering yes to the last two questions will be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Unfortunately, while Jews in the United States are over-represented in virtually every profession from law to medicine to science, they are few and far between in the armed forces of our country.....
In response to your question, I do not think that whatever the US has done for Israel is the only reason or the main reason why Jews
should be loyal to the US. I am loyal and patriotic to this country because I love this country, in spite of all its faults. I didn't serve in the military myself, as it didn't seem to be an option for girls at that time. But as I've said, most of the male members of my family, as well as my husband and his family have all served. Maybe I'm naive about the thinking of people on this board concerning country and loyalty.
Admittedly I have never met fellow Jews who believed that Jews are living in the US as a kind of diaspora, waiting until they can get back to the real homeland. I have never even read anything about this kind of thinking.
Frankly, I was shocked to learn that some people here abhor the idea of serving in the military, either ours or Israel's, when it is the
military that has secured our freedoms in both countries. There's an old saying that goes something like, 'Without the second
amendment, you would never have had the first amendment.
I am not an observant Jew but I am a Jew, and have stated so on many forums.
Most of the people on the forums I post on would not want to come here. Then again, I couldn't see myself joining a Catholic or other religious esforum. I mentioned one neo-nazi site I was a member of for a very short time, simply because it was a challenge. But no matter how much historical fact or verifiable evidence I countered their arguments with, they never stopped hating Jews. They don't even hate terrorists as much as they hate Jews. It was an education, nothing more.
The sites I frequent the most now are the Ann Coulter forum and Jihad Chat. They all know I am Jewish and I post only positive things about Israel (except for the current govt) and negative things about Islam. But I berate and insult liberal Jews all the time on these boards, as I have here on the thread entitled, "I am a Jew. Why I am anti-semitic." I admonish the same liberal Jews that you do.
FYI, I hate Buchanan from way back.
Again, I encourage you to re-read the OP and you'll see where I'm coming from on this issue. It is a fair question. And it
don't mean that Jews haven't contributed to the success of this country in numbers that far exceed their population.
It doesn't mean that I hate Jews, just liberal Jews. It simply means, as the OP stated, very few Jews enlist in the
military today compared to generations before. I never expected to get flamed for asking a legitimate question.
And to those who answered by saying Jews have done a lot of other great stuff for this country, I don't deny that.
But it still doesn't negate the fact that most (not all) Jews are no longer willing to fight for their country, which has
provided the opportunities that allowed them to achieve so much success.
And maybe America hasn't supported Israel in just the way you would have liked, but no other country has been
a better friend to Israel than this one.