JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bd1111 on August 14, 2008, 10:34:04 AM
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I would like to start by saying that India and Israel, Hindus and Jews are and should be the greatest allies to each other. I am a American born Hindu who grew up in Queens, New York. I have had countless Jewish friends through the years and they have been great friends.
I'm writing this post because I've read a lot of the threads on Hindus and India on the JTF forum. I must say that there seems to be many misconceptions on what Hindus believe and how they relate to other societies and civilizations today and in the past. I believe that Jews and Hindus need to make an effort learning about one another and forge an unbreakable alliance to ensure the survival of our civilizations.
In this post I will discuss Hinduism and its misconceptions, who the Hindus are and what Hindus and India have done as a civilization.
What is Hinduism:
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlrMHV4nzfk
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L71FAhl7Yfo
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKE7enkhZyo&feature=related
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMKNt90rA_s&feature=related
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blsXAKczKm0
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_cam528uF8
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fBjsEaGqMI&feature=related
Hinduism is a culture and tradition or religious tradition[1] that originated in the Indian subcontinent. Hinduism is often referred to as Sanātana Dharma (सनातन धर्म) by its practitioners, a Sanskrit phrase meaning "the eternal law"[2]. Among its roots is the historical Vedic religion of Iron Age India.
Hinduism is often stated to be the "oldest religious tradition" or "oldest living major tradition".[3][4][5][6][7] It is formed of diverse traditions and types and has no single founder.[8] Hinduism is the world's third largest religion after Christianity and Islam, with approximately a billion adherents, of whom about 905 million live in India.[9] Other countries with large Hindu populations include Nepal, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore, Mauritius, Fiji, Suriname, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Canada, and the United States.
Hinduism's vast body of scriptures is divided into Śruti ("revealed") and Smriti ("remembered"). These scriptures discuss theology, philosophy and mythology, and provide information on the practice of dharma (religious living). Among these texts, the Vedas and the Upanishads are the foremost in authority, importance and antiquity. Other major scriptures include the Tantras, the Agamas, the Purāṇas and the epics Mahābhārata and Rāmāyaṇa. The Bhagavad Gītā, a treatise from the Mahābhārata, spoken by Krishna, is sometimes called a summary of the spiritual teachings of the Vedas.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
Misconceptions of Hinduism:
Misrepresentation #1: Hindus are Polytheistic
“Hindus, for example, generally reject the idea of a vindictive G-d bringing destruction to the world, said Ariel Glucklich, an associate professor of theology at Georgetown University and a specialist in Hinduism. Krishna and other major gods who participate in human history are "always unfailingly on the side of good," he said.” (Washington Post, January 8, 2005)
There are three common errors in this report. Firstly, Hindus worship one Supreme Being through many different names. Different regional beliefs, traditions and languages have created what appear to be many Gods understood in distinct ways. All forms of life are sacred. The implication of a community of many equal “major gods” is inaccurate. The Vedas, the scriptures sacred to all Hindus, speak of “Ekam sat vipraha bahudha vadanti” (Truth is one; the wise call it by many names). Secondly, describing the Hindu perception of G-d with a small ‘g’ is insulting to most Hindus, just as it is rarely found in association with depictions of the Judeo-Christian G-d. Lastly, the Gods are rarely referred to by their first names; Hindus would preface “Krishna” with the word, “Lord” or “G-d” purely out of respect.
Misrepresentation #2: Cow Worship
“Some trace cow worship back to Lord Krishna, who is said to have first appeared as a cowherd and protector of cattle. Several other gods also lived for a time as cows, and the animals remain a powerful symbol of the religion.” (The Associated Press, May 14, 2005)
Although Hindus respect and honor the cow, they do not worship them in the same sense in which they worship G-d. Hindus considers all living things to be sacred, an attitude reflected in reverence for the cow.
In Hinduism, the cow is seen as a generous, ever-giving source, which takes nothing but that which is necessary for its own sustenance in return. Hindus treat the cow with the same respect accorded to the mother, as the cow is a vital sustainer of life, providing milk and a means of ploughing the earth to grow crops. The cow received such status as a result of the historical need of early agrarian Hindu civilization. The Rig Veda (4.28.1;6) recorded, “The cows have come and have brought us good fortune. In our stalls, contented may they stay! May they bring forth calves for us, many-colored, giving milk for Indra each day. You make, O cows, the think man sleek; to the unlovely you bring beauty. Rejoice our homestead with pleasant lowing. In our assemblies we laud your vigor.”
The cow thus represents Hindu values of selfless service, strength, dignity, and ahimsa, or non-violence. For this reason, although not all Hindus are vegetarian, they traditionally abstain from eating beef.
Misrepresentation #3: Holy Books
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqTe2qA3jGw
“The Bhagavad Gita is not as nice a book as some Americans think. Throughout the Mahabharata…Krishna goads human beings into all sorts of murderous and self-destructive behaviors such as war…The Gita is a dishonest book; it justifies war.” (The Philadelphia Inquirer, November 19, 2000)
The Bhagavad Gita, perhaps Hinduism’s most popularly revered text, is essentially a conversation between Lord Krishna and the great warrior Arjuna on the eve of the great battle depicted in the epic Mahabharata. Lord Krishna, a manifestation of G-d, delivers a philosophical discourse on aspects of living the spiritual life towards attaining moksha, freedom from cycles of birth and death and living as one with G-d. Hinduism extols ahimsa, non-violence, and in more than 5,000 years of recorded history, Hindu rulers have never attacked a land in the name of religion or with the goal of conversion. Although considered a sacred text, the Gita does not claim ultimate authority on religious ideals, as, for example, the Christian Bible does for Christianity. The Vedas, a series of four ancient scriptures are treated as more authoritative texts.
Written in Sanksrit the Vedas impart knowledge for living. The oldest portions date back as far as 6000 B.C.E., making them the oldest scriptures in the world. The four Vedas are Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva. Each Veda has four sections, Samhitas – hymn collections, Brahmanas – priestly manuals, Aranyakas – forest treatises on philosophy and Upanishads – enlightened discourse.
Misrepresentation #4: Idol Worship
“A Hindu temple houses idols of goddesses and gods, which are typically carved in stone or marble from India.” (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, September 5, 2000)
The use of the word “idol” to refer to the representations Hindus use in worshiping G-d is inaccurate. There is no Sanskrit (the medium of Hindu scriptures) equivalent to the word “idol,” and by definition, “idol” means a false G-d and “idol worship” refers to the worship of graven images. The correct term is murti and refers to a powerful visual tool for contemplating the nature of G-d. In English, the closest word would be “icon.” Followers of Hinduism do not blindly worship idols, but use divine images, murtis, as focal points designed to be aides in meditation and prayer. Hindus do not consider G-d to be limited to the murti, but it is a sacred symbol that offers a medium for worship. Indeed, Hindus perceive only one G-d who is infinite and can be addressed in infinite ways and the multiple Gods and Goddesses are a manifestation of that infinite.
Misrepresentation #5: Karma
“At Mr. K's Party Shoppe in Utica, producer of one of the winning tickets, many of the unlucky were back at the counter today, hoping to ride good karma to victory in next week's drawing. "I guess they think we're the good luck store," said Melvin Kassab, son of the convenience store's owner.” (Washington Post, May 11, 2000)
Karma is often misinterpreted to mean “luck” or “fate,” something over which one has no control. However, the Vedas explain that every person is responsible for and in control of their own actions. Karma is the universal principle of action and reaction on physical, mental, and spiritual levels; our thoughts and actions will return to us in the future. Since each action has a reaction, the cycle of karma is endless. To avoid being trapped in this cycle Hindus endeavor to become unattached to the results of their thoughts and actions. When a person can act without thought of reward they are free of the cycle of karma.
Misrepresentation #6: Dowry
"Pooja's case was the latest in a series of well-publicized incidents in which brides have balked at dowry demands, suggesting that some young women are losing patience with the age-old Hindu tradition." (The Washington Post, March 27, 2005)
Dowry is the practice of payment to the bridegroom's family by the bride's family along with the giving away of the bride during the marriage ceremony. The practice originated as a means of helping with marriage expenses and became a form of insurance against mistreatment by a bride's in-laws. Dowry was outlawed in 1961, but remains a social evil that is practiced across several religious traditions throughout South Asia. Dowry is not a part of Hindu tradition.
Who is a Hindu ?
- Belief in one G-d, many adorable forms, names and incarnations
- Acceptance Karma and the fruits of each deed
- Upholding Dharma as a duty towards all aspects of life
- A true Hindu will give up his life to defend and protect Hinduism.
- Will fight evils perpetrated against our religion and will take up arms if his/her Bharat, its' people and religion are under threat from enemies
- Knowing Hinduism as the eternal religion
- Acceptance of various paths leading to G-d
- Respecting all ancient Hindu scriptures
- Seeing G-d in all
- Body dies but the soul is eternal
- Belief in the concept of reincarnation
- All living things have souls & moksha as the final destination
- Respect of gurus and their teachings
A true Hindu is one who has tasted the sweetness of freedom of choice and is wiling to choose death before giving up his freedom. Freedom of choice to follow a path is the basic human right and no one shall tell him/her otherwise. Any Hindu who converts to islam or christianity is giving up his rights and virtually giving himself and his future generations to slavery.
A Hindu is one that believes in one G-d who incarnates, as and when He feels fit, in the shape and form He wants. G-d creates, sustains and destroys when time comes. Many names and forms are given to each with the love and affection of each individual devotee. He has, can and will send us as many prophets ( Only prophet ?) , saints and sons (only son?) and is fully capable of doing so. Our Dharma is eternal, so is G-d and all the souls. It is our conviction that body dies but not the soul. The old scriptures are a guide to salvation and an individual can steadily make his way back to G-d in the speed and path selected. Karma (deeds) and results of Karma are the basis of our lives. Knowing that good karma will bring good results and vice versa, our lives can be guided towards fruition of Salvation termed as Moksha. Guru plays a very important part in molding our lives and whilst the Holy book Gita can be accepted as Guru so can the word of Guru Nanak . A Hindu may or may not agree to some of the points above but he will willingly give his fellow human the right to practice religion as and how the other sees fit.
What is Sanskrit:
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQ4hIG9w7c
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_3i53u8so
Sanskrit (संस्कृता वाक् saṃskṛtā vāk, for short संस्कृतम् saṃskṛtam) is one among the two classical languages of India, the other being Tamil. It is a liturgical language of Hinduism and other Indian religions. [1] It is one of the 22 scheduled languages of India. [2] It belongs to the historical Indo-Aryan sub-branch of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European family of languages. It is the origin of several languages of South and Southeast Asia and it has significantly influenced most modern languages of India.[3]
The pre-Classical form of Sanskrit is known as Vedic Sanskrit, with the language of the Rigveda being the oldest and most archaic stage preserved, its oldest core dating back to as early as 1500 B.C.E.,[4] qualifying Rigvedic Sanskrit as the oldest attestation of any Indo-Iranian language, next to the Mitanni records, and one of the earliest attested members of the Indo-European language family.[5] Classical Sanskrit is the standard register as laid out in the grammar of Pāṇini, around the 4th century B.C.E..
The corpus of Sanskrit literature encompasses a rich tradition of poetry and drama as well as technical scientific, philosophical and generally Hindu religious texts, though many central texts of Buddhism and Jainism have also been composed in Sanskrit. Today, Sanskrit continues to be widely used as a ceremonial language in Hindu religious rituals in the forms of hymns and mantras. Spoken Sanskrit is still in use in a few traditional institutions in India, and there are some attempts at revival.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
Who we are:
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU3eqP-nxu8&feature=related
The Indus Valley Civilization (c. 3000–1500 B.C.E., Mature period 2600–1900 B.C.E.), abbreviated IVC, was an ancient civilization that flourished in the Indus River basin. Primarily centred in the Sindh and Punjab provinces of Pakistan, and Gujarat and Rajasthan in India, it extends westward into the Balochistan province of Pakistan as well. Remains have been excavated from Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Iran, as well. The mature phase of this civilization is technically known as the Harappan Civilization, after the first of its cities to be unearthed; Harappa in Pakistan. Excavation of IVC sites has been ongoing since 1920, with important breakthroughs occurring as recently as 1999.[1]
The civilization is sometimes referred to as the Indus Ghaggar-Hakra civilization[2] or the Indus-Sarasvati civilization. The appellation Indus-Sarasvati is based on the possible identification of the Ghaggar-Hakra River with the Sarasvati River mentioned in the Rig Veda,[3] but this usage is disputed on linguistic and geographical grounds.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8-JCK45tc
Aryan is an English word derived from the Sanskrit "Ārya" meaning "noble" or "honorable".[1][2] The Avestan cognate is "Airya" and the Old Persian equivalent is "Ariya". It is widely held to have been used as an ethnic self-designation of the Proto-Indo-Iranians[citation needed]. Since, in the 19th century, the Indo-Iranians were the most ancient known speakers of Indo-European languages, the word Aryan was adopted to refer not only to the Indo-Iranian people, but also to Indo-European speakers as a whole[citation needed].
In Europe, the concept of an Aryan race became influential in the late 19th and early 20th centuries as linguists and ethnologists argued that speakers of these Indo-European languages constitute a distinctive race, descended from an ancient people, who were referred to as the "primitive Aryans", but are now known as Proto-Indo-Europeans.
In linguistics, Aryan is most often used in the context of the sub-branch of Indo-Iranian languages referred to as Indo-Aryan languages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
People of South Asia
Early 20th century anthropologist Carleton Coon wrote in the 1930s that within the Caucasoid race there is a "third division [Mediterraneans which]... included... southern India" but remarked this group had "facial features of a Veddoid character which in some instances suggest Australoid affinities."[20] He further elaborated that in India there are "Veddoids... individuals who are to all extents and purposes Australoid." Regarding the exact racial composition of India, Coon admitted, "[T]he racial history of southern Asia has not yet been thoroughly worked out, and it is too early to postulate what these relationships may be... shall leave the problems of Indian physical anthropology in the competent hands of Guha and of Bowles."[20]
In 1995, geneticist Cavalli-Sforza wrote, "[T]he Caucasoids are mainly fair-skinned peoples, but this group also includes the southern Indians, who live in tropical areas and show signs of a marked darkening in skin pigmentation, although their facial and body traits are Caucasoid rather than African or Australian."[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasoid
What Hindus and India have done as a civilization:
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L71FAhl7Yfo
The History of Science and Technology in India dates back to pre-modern times.[1] Indian civilization begins at Mehrgarh (7000–3300 B.C.E.), where graineries, and mud brick houses were constructed.[2] Farming, metal working, flint knapping, tanning, bead production, and dentistry, were also known to the people of Mehrgarh.[2][3] The Indus Valley civilization yields evidence of hydrography, metrology and sewage collection and disposal being practiced by its inhabitants.[4][5][6] Among the basic fields of science pursued in India were Ayurveda, astronomy and mathematics.[1]
Great attention to mathematics is visible during the Vedic period (1500 B.C.E. - 400 B.C.E.), which also witnesses the first inquiry being made into the field of linguistics by the 5th century B.C.E. scholar Panini.[7] Construction of Stepwells and stupas, use of diamond as a gemstone, and plastic surgery operations are visible during later periods.[8][9][10] In the classical period of Indian mathematics (400 C.E. to 1200 C.E.), important contributions were made by scholars like Aryabhatta, Brahmagupta, and Bhaskara II.[11] Indian mathematicians made early contributions to the study of the decimal number system,[11] zero,[12] negative numbers,[13] arithmetic, and algebra.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_ancient_India
Ancient India can be acredited with many acheivements. Some of them are listed here:
* Earliest known precise celestial calculations: Aryabhata, an Indian Mathematician (c. 500AD) accurately calculated celestial constants like earth's rotation per solar orbit, days per solar orbit, days per lunar orbit.
* Astronomical time spans: Apart from the peoples of the Mayan civilization, the ancient Hindus appear to be the only people who even thought beyond a few thousand years. Hindu scriptures refer to time scales that vary from ordinary earth day and night to the day and night of the Brahma that are a few billion earth years long.
* Theory of creation of the universe: A 9th century Hindu scripture, The Mahapurana by Jinasena claims that the world is uncreated, as time itself is, without beginning and end. And it is based on principles.
* Earth goes round the sun: Aryabhata, it so happens, was apparently quite sceptical of the widely held doctrines about eclipses and also about the belief that the Sun goes round the Earth. As early as the sixth century, he talked of the diurnal motion of the earth and the appearance of the Sun going round it.
* Binary System of number representation: A Mathematician named Pingala (c. 100BC) developed a system of binary enumeration convertible to decimal numerals. He described the system in his book called Chandahshaastra. The system he described is quite similar to that of Leibnitz, who was born in the 17th century.
* Earliest and only known Modern Language: Panini (c 400BC), in his Astadhyayi, gave formal production rules and definitions to describe Sanskrit grammar. Starting with about 1700 fundamental elements, like nouns, verbs, vowels and consonents, he put them into classes. The construction of sentences, compound nouns etc. was explained as ordered rules operating on underlying fundamental structures.
* Invention of Zero: Although ancient Babylonians were known to have used what is often called "place holders" to distinguish between numbers like 809 and 89, they were nothing more than blank spaces or at times two wedge shapes like". The first notions of zero as a number and its uses have been found in ancient Mathematical treatise from India.
* The word "Algorithm": Al-Khwarizmi's work, De numero indorum (Concerning the Hindu Art of Reckoning), was based presumably on an Arabic translation of Brahmagupta where he gave a full account of the Hindu numerals which was the first to expound the system with its digits 0,1,2,3,...,9 and decimal place value which was a fairly recent arrival from India. The new notation came to be known as that of al-Khwarizmi, or more carelessly, algorismi; ultimately the scheme of numeration making use of the Hindu numerals came to be called simply algorism or algorithm, a word that, originally derived from the name al-Khwarizmi.
* Representing Large numbers: Mathematicians in India invented the base ten system in ancient times. But research did not stop there. The practice of representing large numbers also evolved in ancient India. notion of representing large numbers as powers of 10, one that was invented in India, turned out to be extremely handy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_inventions
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With all due respect, I have seen very few threads on Hinduism here. Where have you seen these threads here about Hinduism?
Anyway, we are glad to have Hindus as allies. Welcome...
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I have not seen any misconceptions about Hindus on the forum, they are an enemy of Islam as well as us Jews and Christians, they are welcome to the forum.
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Hindus, for example, generally reject the idea of a vindictive G-d bringing destruction to the world, said Ariel Glucklich,
Listen I don't think it's appropriate to get into intra- theological discussions/debates on this forum (ie we have many Christian members and many Jewish members and we don't debate each others' religions, we are united for the same cause and let each other believe what we believe, if you want to join, join, then you're doing righteous deeds), but I have to say that I remember from global studies class back in the day, that there were 3 main "gods" (if that's the right word, I don't remember what Hinduism calls it), that there was a "creator" a destroyer named shiva and a "preserver" named Vishnu. So regardless of what some academic says, please be honest if you're going to say anything. (Many "academics" have hairbrained opinions about Judaism too, or most academics distort Islam to be something it's not!)
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With all due respect, I have seen very few threads on Hinduism here. Where have you seen these threads here about Hinduism?
Anyway, we are glad to have Hindus as allies. Welcome...
I don't know man, maybe he's just diong "hindu missionizing" We should inform him that this is against the rules of our forum and let him know that all Hindus are welcome to join this movement and we are certainly open to alliances with well-meaning and righteous people...
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I haven't seen any misconceptions or discussion on Hinduism here.
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Shalom,
I have a couple of co-workers who have explained Hinduism to me. Of course I told him to never mention the names of any deities because as a Jew I never, ever use the name of a foreign G-d lest I violate a mitzvah. What I recall is that there are three entities and one which rules over all. It doesnt meet the requirements of Judaism as being monotheistic. But it is a very moral and good teaching. I have a lot of respect for my Indian co-workers and they have told me that they respect Israel and Judaism.
muman613
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With all due respect, I have seen very few threads on Hinduism here. Where have you seen these threads here about Hinduism?
Anyway, we are glad to have Hindus as allies. Welcome...
I don't know man, maybe he's just diong "hindu missionizing" We should inform him that this is against the rules of our forum and let him know that all Hindus are welcome to join this movement and we are certainly open to alliances with well-meaning and righteous people...
I am theeenking we must rebootish the system.
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I've only seen positives about Hindus here. I myself am an Indiphile. I love all things from India... except for the Muslims who pollute it.
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Of course we welcome Hindus here if they want to unite with us to pursue a common cause, just like we welcome Christians. Hindus are good and peaceful people I believe. But come on. If Hinduism isn't a polytheistic, idol-worshiping religion, then what is?
Buddhism
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So what if their religion is polytheistic by Jewish standards? Islam is a monotheistic religion, and look how much trouble the moosies are causing. Hindus seem like a tolerant bunch, so I have no problems working with them.
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both hindus and jews have suffered by the vile hands of islam, the nations of india and israel suffer attacks in the name of "allah". all righteous hindu's are welcomed here
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bd1111 and Briann, have either of you ever read the book(s) "The Far Pavillion" by M.M. Kaye? Kaye apparently spent lots of time in India, and really knew her stuff. The story is about an English boy raised in India during the time of the British Raj. Kaye also wrote the book "Shadow of the Moon" where the storyline also took place in India during the time of the British Raj.
But I haven't seen any books from her in a long long time.
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Buddhism
That is completely untrue. Buddhism has many varieties, but they do not worship idols or multiple deities! Buddhism is either pantheistic (Therevada), monotheistic (Mahayana, which is the majority of world Buddhism today), or atheistic (Zen).
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So what if their religion is polytheistic by Jewish standards? Islam is a monotheistic religion, and look how much trouble the moosies are causing. Hindus seem like a tolerant bunch, so I have no problems working with them.
Islam may be a monotheism technically, but it is based on a pagan idol (Sin, the Canaanite Nazi moon g-d).
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So what if their religion is polytheistic by Jewish standards? Islam is a monotheistic religion, and look how much trouble the moosies are causing. Hindus seem like a tolerant bunch, so I have no problems working with them.
i dont either welcome aboard O0
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Hello bd,
JTF is an Orthodox Jewish Forum. You have to respect their beliefs. What you are trying to do is preaching Hinduism to JTFers. JTF does not preach Judaism to gentiles in this forum or ask people to convert to Judaism, so you have to reciprocate that gesture. We have various other high priority items and knowing whether Hinduism is good or bad is irrelevant here.
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Hello bd,
JTF is an Orthodox Jewish Forum. You have to respect their beliefs. What you are trying to do is preaching Hinduism to JTFers. JTF does not preach Judaism to gentiles in this forum or ask people to convert to Judaism, so you have to reciprocate that gesture. We have various other high priority items and knowing whether Hinduism is good or bad is irrelevant here.
So, since he isn't Jewish, is he fair game for me to convert him to Christianity??? Where's Benny Hinn!
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Buddhism
That is completely untrue. Buddhism has many varieties, but they do not worship idols
I've seen a replica of a Buddhist idol at the UN, bro.
I was on a tour. It was right smack in the middle of the tour...
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Hello bd,
JTF is an Orthodox Jewish Forum. You have to respect their beliefs. What you are trying to do is preaching Hinduism to JTFers. JTF does not preach Judaism to gentiles in this forum or ask people to convert to Judaism, so you have to reciprocate that gesture. We have various other high priority items and knowing whether Hinduism is good or bad is irrelevant here.
So, since he isn't Jewish, is he fair game for me to convert him to Christianity??? Where's Benny Hinn!
No, converting people from one religion to another religion is not the objective of JTF.
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Hello bd,
JTF is an Orthodox Jewish Forum. You have to respect their beliefs. What you are trying to do is preaching Hinduism to JTFers. JTF does not preach Judaism to gentiles in this forum or ask people to convert to Judaism, so you have to reciprocate that gesture. We have various other high priority items and knowing whether Hinduism is good or bad is irrelevant here.
So, since he isn't Jewish, is he fair game for me to convert him to Christianity??? Where's Benny Hinn!
No, converting people from one religion to another religion is not the objective of JTF.
Yes, we try to refrain from getting into religious arguments, or trying to preach religion on the forum. I have seen a few people terminated from the forum, due to conversion attempts on other users. JTF does not condone those types of behaviors.
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bd111 if you're a good person then I welcome you too. I will probably be able to tell that in time, but please forgive me for having some reservations regarding Hindus and Hinduism. I'm a Christian and have read about atrocities committed against Christians in India and it makes me wary of Hindus. I do agree with JTF that India should be supported as a nation against Pakistan because the Muslims are worse.
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those christians were probably attacked becuase of pakistani muslims pissed about terrirorial disputes
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Hello bd,
JTF is an Orthodox Jewish Forum. You have to respect their beliefs. What you are trying to do is preaching Hinduism to JTFers. JTF does not preach Judaism to gentiles in this forum or ask people to convert to Judaism, so you have to reciprocate that gesture. We have various other high priority items and knowing whether Hinduism is good or bad is irrelevant here.
So, since he isn't Jewish, is he fair game for me to convert him to Christianity??? Where's Benny Hinn!
No, converting people from one religion to another religion is not the objective of JTF.
Yes, we try to refrain from getting into religious arguments, or trying to preach religion on the forum. I have seen a few people terminated from the forum, due to conversion attempts on other users. JTF does not condone those types of behaviors.
My remark was kind of "tongue in cheek".
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There are no misconceptions about Hinduism and India on the JTF Forum:
Albeit Jews and Hindus theologically seem to have diametrically opposite opinions and practices but almost all Jewish opinions and practices are available in some or the other groups within Hinduism. So as a matter of fact all of them are mostly not only tolerable but acceptable within Hinduism and vice versa is neither desired not needed.
Hindus and Jews have never in their long histories religiously interfered with each others or even attempted to impose their will in such matters.
Jews have been residing in different parts of India even since 2500 years as a small minority. Not a single complaint or crime of anti-semitic nature or any other has ever been reported by or against Jews. No censorship ever existed to suppress the facts. If someone can provide any evidence to the contrary, I may be simply shaken to the core.
I do not see even a remote chance of Hindus and Jews standing against each other at any time or any place.
BTW if there are any supposedly misunderstandings between Hindus and Jews within present or future, they shall be the wicked handiworks of Muzzies who unfortunately had the time and occasion to know both of them innately.
With Regards... :)
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Politically India and Israel, as all non-Mohammadan nations have a common bond. Hinduism and Judaism are diametrically opposed. Apples and oranges. The two cultures and "moral" specificities differ immensely. So from a purely political perspective the Jew and the Hindu are kin but from, perhaps, everything else are two totally different atmospheres.
Buddhism is a gnostic religion also with ties to Nazism. Hell ,the Hindu, like the aforementioned Buddhists aided Herr Schickelgruber and the Thule Societies development of the Nazi Aryian ideology. One example of many:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=m6-5YC-pBk4C&dq=Hitler's+Priestess&pg=PP1&ots=STf7i5rQ1b&sig=B_541ZaQz5fzmTEmbHIkYIGVch4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
I tend to try to keep discussions to a polical and not a theological perspective. A Christian group put out an anti-New Age video called "G-ds of the New Age". Of course it is bias as the agenda is to reproach the New Age movement of the 70's but it also outlines its relationship with Hinduism. VIDEO: G-ds of the New Age: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6272335793596892362
If anyone here has ever been to India one can note that they are a pieceful lot, albeit, much of that can be blamed on the British occupation which crushed many of their practices which were viewed immoral according to Judeo-Christian standards.
If anyone here wishes to know, and understand India-Mohammadan relationships one must read about the Rashidun Caliphate and its invasions of Persia, Hindu Afghanistan, Hind/India and the Punjab. Further one must read about the second major Islamic Jihad agaisnt India between the 11th and 17th centuries. Reading specifically on 14th century Amir Timur; Tamurlane, like 7th century Mohammad, 12th century Salah al-Din or Bin Laden, was one of the most worshipped and glorified Mohammadan leaders of their history. Conquering Delhi alone, he massacred over 100,000 Hindus. Wherever he, or his generals made "Jihad", they made "warning pillars" out of thousands of human skulls, using the Qur'an as pretext.
Amir Timur's conquest of India in his own words:
"My principal object in coming to Hindustan.....has been to accomplish two things. The first was to war with the Infidels, the enemies of the Mohammadan religion; and by this religious warfare to acquire some claim to reward in the life to come. The other was....that the army of Islam migh might gain something by plundering the wealth and valuables of the infidels; plunder in war is as lawful as their mothers' milk to Musalmans who war for their faith." - Amir Timur, 1398. - K.S. Lal, "Muslims Invade India," in the Legacy of Muslim Rule in India (New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan, 1992.
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The reason I wrote this post was because when I did a search and read through the threads related to India and Hinduism I found some disturbing comments. I've copied some in below.
(My no means am I trying to convert anyone. I understand that these topics are not very common on this forum. Yet, at the minimum India and Israel are getting progressively closer militarily and economically. It seems that our two cultures are headed for a strong alliance. So, it is important and necessary for us to know about each other. I hope someone writes about Judaism in the Hindu Unity Forum.)
Sarah
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Re: India will absorb Population of ISRAEL on EMERGENCY
Jews should not be in favour of idol worshipping religions.
I think the indian people will have mixed views on Israel.
Sarah
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Re: India will absorb Population of ISRAEL on EMERGENCY
Yeah I know hindus are respectful, peaceful and good people but forming very tight bonds between india and israel, personally isn't the greatest thing to do.
You may prefer good people to bad people. Though promoting and encouraging people to worship Idols is wrong.
I'm sorry Ashish if i insulted you. You celebrate christmas?
jdl4ever
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Re: India will absorb Population of ISRAEL on EMERGENCY
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2007, 09:02:53 PM »
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I like the Indian people in general. They are very nice hard working and friendly people. Also they are very humble. The only thing I don't like about them is their polytheism.
Dan Ben Noah
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Re: India monkey G-d idol for Obama
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 10:19:46 PM »
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What an appropriate idol for Obama--the resemblance is astounding.
So basically Hindus worship monkeys, so they want Obama to be president. Makes sense I guess.
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Re: I Can't Believe This - Jews Showing Interest In Buddhism?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2007, 05:11:40 PM »
I woud trade 100 budhists for one muslim, but basicly this is another New Age giberish for me. And BTW Budhism is not gonna last long against Jihaad, Afgnistan was once budhist country.
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Re: How come Hindus don't fight amongst themselves or with Buddhists?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 05:48:02 PM »
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Quote from: Sarah on October 17, 2007, 05:08:36 PM
They believe in the circle of life.
Yes but they have no G-D
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Sarah is a Mohammadan.... No worries. Happy posting... ;)
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ok bottom line...welcome aboard...we don't care you're hindu. We might have differing theological points of view, but we are entitled to that. This is a jewish forum intended on fighting against evil people. But you dont' need to be Jewish to fight with us. So welcome...
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Absolutely correct Dr. Dan. Well put... O0
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
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Yes. That is certainly true. However in the West, Hinduism, and its related ideology: New Age Movement, are being promulgated on mass to convert the Christian and Jew.
We have a common political enemy: Mohammadan and the expansion of Mohammadanism. Lets stick to our goal of defeating this menace and may one day, your lands, like Israel, be free of these vermin! ;)
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MarZutra
I totally agree. O0 This thread was for some background information on an ally (Hindus/India). Our goals are the same, eliminate the cancer of Islam.
As far as New Age movement and Yoga, Hinduism has no central governing body like the Church. Westerners have been interested in India for hundreds of years and especially since the 60's in the US. Hinduism has no missionaries and we don't force anyone to convert.
Jew have been in India for 2500 years and they have always been welcome. We ask for the same hospitality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India
Hindus can't help it if people like yoga, Indian food or eastern philosophy... but we do enjoy people taking an interest in our culture.
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I love Indian food. Always have 2 servings of the rice pudding. My choice for lunch 2-3 times per week. O0
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I love Indian food. Always have 2 servings of the rice pudding. My choice for lunch 2-3 times per week. O0
Trouble is that if the food is any measurement of success, the Chinese are going to win hands down ;). However some people are allergic to ajinomoto.
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Welcome aboard bd!
Are Hindus a religion-nation like Jews are, or do most Hindus consider the Muslim and Christian of India as part of the same nation, the same people (Isn't that what Mohandis Ganhi had said) ?
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Sarah is a Mohammadan.... No worries. Happy posting... ;)
LOL
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
>:(
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Hey bd, I had the DISPLEASURE of checking out the forums at hindu unity. I went there for a few reasons. First, to see the problems that Hindus face with islam as all faiths do and to see it from the source. I also try to study as much as I can of ALL religions. Much more can be learned by hearing from many different followers than by JUST reading books.
Warning to any Christians here who are thinking of ventuting a look over there. I am not to sure who is hated more there, Christians or muslims. Some of their posters actually made nik sound like a president of Friends of the Vatican chapter.
Are all Hindus filled with this much hatred of Christians or is it just the people on your forum. I guess I was naive enough to believe that we could all work together for the common cause against islam. If I had to go into battle with allies like these I would be to busy watching my sides and back to fight the enemy in front of me.
If anyone thinks I am just blowing steam please check out Xindu unity. Don't like that X there from this CHRISTIAN?
I guess you were expecting to find a bunch of Christian hating Jews here, and admittedly I think there might be a few(and they usually end up leaving), can probably count them on one hand though, so nobody would notice or be concerned with the rampant Christian hating on your forum. Funny how you come here and complain about what you PERCIEVED to be anti Hindu statements when a forum you are promoting is filled with vile disgusting hatred of Christians.
If anyone saves this world from islam it will be Christians and Jews. Hindus outnumber muslims by about what, 10 to 1 in India and they are gobbling up land on all sides over time and squeezing the Hindus in. While European nations, America, Israel, etc. are having problems with a much smaller percentage of muslims more and more of us are waking up and fighting back. Maybe not enough yet, but the worse they get the more we wil rise. Indian Hindus suffered the worst genocide in history at the hands of the muslims and what happened, more land and power were given up. America, a Judeo-Christian nation was attacked and we went into not one, but two, countries. Do we need to do more, of course, give it time. Christian and Jewish nations will save us from islam no matter how evil you think us xtians are.
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
Christians aren't blowing Hindus up in the name of G-d. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. Nobody except Muslims are putting guns to Hindus' heads to force them to convert.
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
I smell a troll
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
I smell a troll
It's not a "troll" anytime someone says something you dislike. I don't read "troll" anywhere here.
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I smell curry.
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
bd,
Sounds like it makes sense and all but what does this have to do with Christian Zionist? He doesn't support missionizing other religions and never does that here. So why do you blame Christian Zionist for what you see as crimes other Christians have committed. JTF is an organization against missionary work, unless it's to convert Muslims to sanity and non-Nazi religious belief.
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
I smell a troll
It's not a "troll" anytime someone says something you dislike. I don't read "troll" anywhere here.
How many times do you see me call someone a troll
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Message for Christian Zionist
Hinduism is and has been under attack by Islam and Christianity for hundreds of years. Hindus have a right to exist and believe what they want. So, your (Christian Zionist) accusation of intentions of conversion fall on deaf ears. Islam has physically killed us on our holy land, India. Christianity has preyed on the down trodden and unfortunate in India, and have converted millions.
I have no apologies for you Christian Zionist...
I smell a troll
It's not a "troll" anytime someone says something you dislike. I don't read "troll" anywhere here.
How many times do you see me call someone a troll
None that I've paid attention to except right here. Mine was a comment only about this thread.
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Before any Christian here defends this person I implore you to go check out the site he/she recommended, Hindu Unity. It reeks with hatred of of not only Catholicism but of all Christianity.
I don't believe this is a troll(could be though), what I do believe is that he/she thought that on a Jewish forum it would find other Christian haters and when he found out this was not the place for him to find an army of fellow Christian haters he seems to be slithering away.
Please, don't just take my word for it, check out the site, you will see I am not exaggerating, if anything I am understating.
Just to warn you, in their attacks on Christian scripture they include much of what is also Jewish scripture.
"Jesus Christ was an imbecile, he was the most stupid person alive". I know Jewish people do not believe in Christ but I have never heard of him described that way or even close to that way here. See such lovely statements as these and many more.
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I'd say that the masses that follow Mohammad or Marx/Engles probably most suit that catagory of "stupidest alive".. ;)
I strongly suggest all Jews on this forum to read "The Rainbow Swastika" by Hannah Newman. Within which one will learn much of the respective histories regarding these Eastern gnostic religions as they relate to the development of Nazism and the New Age Mysticism/Religion/Culture of Universal Enlightenment. Most specifically this work delves into the dangers that all of the aforementioned hold for, directed against and views re: G-d, Judaism, Jews and Israel....
Enjoy: http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/ebooks/Hannah_Newman/The_Rainbow_Swastika.pdf
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I have to plee ignorance here about Hindus cause I really don't know that much about them except they make curry chicken
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Of course we welcome Hindus here if they want to unite with us to pursue a common cause, just like we welcome Christians. Hindus are good and peaceful people I believe. But come on. If Hinduism isn't a polytheistic, idol-worshiping religion, then what is?
Buddhism
Buddhists are atheists that only worship 1 idol, Buddha, if that combination is possible.
The definition of atheism is no worship or beleif, so I don't think that combination is valid.
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There are different types of Buddhism. Some believe in no personal afterlife.
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There are different types of Buddhism. Some believe in no personal afterlife.
belief in "no afterlife" does not equate to atheism. They are both incorrect, but they're not the same.
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There are different types of Buddhism. Some believe in no personal afterlife.
belief in "no afterlife" does not equate to atheism. They are both wrong, but they're not the same.
This is true.
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Kahane .org and NKM supported Hindus, and linked to Hindu Unity. I have always opposed that link for Hallachic reasons, since it is partly religious and polytheistic (at least from a Jewish/Nohaide point of view). But I see no problem with Hindus supporting Israel and Kahanism. If he supports Israel, everythinkg is ok.
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Kahane .org and NKM supported Hindus, and linked to Hindu Unity. I have always opposed that link for Hallachic reasons, since it is partly religious and polytheistic (at least from a Jewish/Nohaide point of view). But I see no problem with Hindus aupporting Israel and Kahanism. If he supports Israel, everythinkg is ok.
I whole heartedly support India and the Hindu People from a purely political perspective as, like Israel, they should be allowed to be freed from their centuries old internal and external jihad. I am wholely against any relationship via social or religous as there is too much anti-Judaic aspects within the Hind philosoply which is specifically why their country, people and culture progressed the way it has done and why the Jew and Israel had progressed the way it had.
My G-d strike the Mohammadan cancer from within its borders and remove all of the external Islamic threats as well ...
Two cents from Ol-MarZutra....
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Almost forgot, the forum that bd is recommending here also claims that the Torah is just the Vedic texts being plagiurized.
Now, I am in no way saying that all Hindus hate Christians and to an extent Jews, but the ones from the forum that this offended Hindu comes from sure do. See for yourself.
Yes, rid India of muslims, heck, rid everywhere of muslims, just be careful with who you think your friends are.
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firster555
I just wanted to respond to you. Firstly, I don't support everything in the resources that I have posted yet some information should be helpful or enlightening. Also, as for as Hindu's feeling towards Christians, we have nothing against Christians in general but we have a problem with missionaries attacking Hinduism in India itself. The problem is that there are a lot of vulnerable people in India and are often targeted by Christian missionaries. Its a different type of war against our culture. We would prefer to be left alone. Every culture has a right to defend itself.
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oskYVfIcYU0
100% Support for Israel!!!
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I would expect Jews to fight Christian missionaries aswell, not Christians in general but those that actively work to convert Jews.
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I would expect Jews to fight Christian missionaries aswell, not Christians in general but those that actively work to convert Jews.
That is exactly happening today in places like Arad and other more secular "Jewish" towns within Israel. Jews who do stand up for themselves get masses of propaganda against them for not being "tolerant". I believe one Rabbi recently went to jail as a confrontation with one of these missionaries resulted in a full blown battle. I believe caught on video.
I wish they'd leave us alone and go missionize in China, North Korea, Cuba, Russia or between Moracco and Indonesia and stay out of Israel....
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firster555
I just wanted to respond to you. Firstly, I don't support everything in the resources that I have posted yet some information should be helpful or enlightening. Also, as for as Hindu's feeling towards Christians, we have nothing against Christians in general but we have a problem with missionaries attacking Hinduism in India itself. The problem is that there are a lot of vulnerable people in India and are often targeted by Christian missionaries. Its a different type of war against our culture. We would prefer to be left alone. Every culture has a right to defend itself.
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oskYVfIcYU0
100% Support for Israel!!!
BD, I did not say that Hindus are anti-Christian, what I said was that what I had seen at Hindu unity.com was extremely anti-Christian. As a Christian myself I do not believe personally in going out and evangelizing. To me it is live and let live, hence why islam is such a problem. There is a difference between evangelizing and missionary work. Agreed sometimes it is a fine line that gets crossed, but that is not because of Christian doctrine but because of human influence.
I have never been in India so I cannot really comment on how true the horrible stories about Christians there really are.
If someone has faith in their Hindu beliefs why would missionary workers pose a threat. Would you rather deal with Christian missionaries or muslim jihadists. From what I saw at Hindu Unity.com it actually sounded like some would prefer the muslims.
As far as every culture having a right to defend itself and having your culture under attack, I could not agree more. Here in the U.S. there is something wrong with you if believe this, that is how much our culture is under attack.
I went to that site hoping to learn more about Hinduism, I am interested in learning about all religions, and history, sort of my hobbies, and also hopefully to meet some allies in the battle against islam. Instead I felt lower than the crazed mohammadeans over there.
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I may not be extremely against the conversions, but let the converters first convert all the muzzies on the earth. Then the converters may automatically boil down to the conclusion and realization that conversions are no more needed. :D