JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: godhelpus on December 09, 2008, 12:05:08 PM
-
As I read the Torah, I see where Joshua and his army kills entire communities of men, women, and children. They even kill all the animals. Please explain the difference between what Joshua did and the wish of Islamic Terrorist who seek to do the same to the Jewish people?
Personally, I don't see a difference. Explain to me why there is one.
-
Because G-D told him to also that was thousands of yrs ago people have evolved except the children of pigs and whores ..the muzzies
-
Because G-D told him to also that was thousands of yrs ago people have evolved except the children of pigs and whores ..the muzzies
But many Islamic Terrorist claim that God is telling them to do the same when it comes to acts of Terrorism. Hitler claimed that he received a message from the Divine with his evil.
Is it your belief that because something happened thousands of years ago, that it should be discounted? Is the pain of a mother who was forced to watch evil Nazis bastards kill her son during the Holocaust, any different then the pain of a mother who was forced to watch Joshua and his soldiers kill her son thousands of years ago?
-
Because G-D told him to also that was thousands of yrs ago people have evolved except the children of pigs and whores ..the muzzies
But many Islamic Terrorist claim that G-d is telling them to do the same when it comes to acts of Terrorism. Hitler claimed that he received a message from the Divine with his evil.
Is it your belief that because something happened thousands of years ago, that it should be discounted? Is the pain of a mother who was forced to watch evil Nazis bastards kill her son during the Holocaust, any different then the pain of a mother who was forced to watch Joshua and his soldiers kill her son thousands of years ago?
The answer is clear.
1. God told Josua to do so. It is proud and snotty to question His orders.
2. It was a special order for a special situation. Of cause today His order was before lots of centuries executed and Christians like Jews are not commanded to kill people around the world. Nazis have the eduring ideology to exterminate Jews (and other people on their hate-list). So it is not accurate to equalize this two issues.
-
Because G-D told him to also that was thousands of yrs ago people have evolved except the children of pigs and whores ..the muzzies
But many Islamic Terrorist claim that G-d is telling them to do the same when it comes to acts of Terrorism. Hitler claimed that he received a message from the Divine with his evil.
Is it your belief that because something happened thousands of years ago, that it should be discounted? Is the pain of a mother who was forced to watch evil Nazis bastards kill her son during the Holocaust, any different then the pain of a mother who was forced to watch Joshua and his soldiers kill her son thousands of years ago?
The answer is clear.
1. G-d told Josua to do so. It is proud and snotty to question His orders.
2. It was a special order for a special situation. Of cause today His order was before lots of centuries executed and Christians like Jews are not commanded to kill people around the world. Nazis have the eduring ideology to exterminate Jews (and other people on their hate-list). So it is not accurate to equalize this two issues.
My God, are you serious? Once again, many Islamic Terrorist say that God tells them to commit acts of terrorism. So using your logic they are obliged to not be "proud and snotty to question his orders" when it comes to killing or injuring others. Once again the Nazi ideology was based on Hitler's belief that God told him to kill all Jews. Pain is pain. Death is death. Wrong is wrong. You say it is "not accurate to equalize the two issues." I wonder if the mother who saw her son murdered by Joshua would agree with you?
-
Plain and simple. G-d commanded not only Joshua but all of Am Yisrael. The recieving of the Torah was a public thing, and something that even the nations do not disagree with. We know that G-d gave the Torah to Am Yisrael and He commanded them in doing what was necessary and His orders.
Hitler, muslims and everyone else are acting on the accounts on 1 man. No witnesses there. Look at all the religions and cults, everything started with 1 person- with no witnesses at all. Who is to believe Mohammed that an angel came to him? Who is to believe that this person or the next makes a claim to be true when their isn't even another witness? The Torah on the other hand was given in front of MIllions, so what it says is from G-d who knows better then us.
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Tina Greco's friends?
-
Hitler never sayd that he received a revelation. He only mentioned diffuse, that he was destined by the prevision for power.
Everbody with some knowledge in Islam knows, that this whole religion is a madeup story. It was created as justification for hate and a master-people-ideology in order to steal rob enslave and murder Christians and Jews.
National-socialism and Islam are evil ideologies and lies.
The five books of Moses are the truth and the core of righteous human faith.
This is the difference.
-
Hmmm...I smell a a storm (front) brewing.
I'm going to paraphrase the ultra right wing blogger Lawrence Auster on this one. In parts of the Torah it said that the Jews wiped out entire communities. Yet in other parts, those same enemies of the Jews (canaanites and philistines) pop up, which might lead a person to believe that the Jews didn't do as G-d told them to do.
Anyway, Auster says that some of those killings did indeed happen. But the difference, he says is that they were just events that happened. The killings were never codified into Jewish law like you see in the Koran.
So if you're really serious, as opposed to being a snot-nosed troll, you can go and check his blog for yourself -- http://amnation.com/vfr
The post was written a while back, so do a search when you get to his blog.
In the Koran, you have suras that say do not take Christians and Jews for friends, kill the infidels wherever you find them, cut off their ears and noses, etc. Furthermore, there's no equivalent in Judaism to jihad.
-
Anyway, Auster says that some of those killings did indeed happen. But the difference, he says is that they were just events that happened. The killings were never codified into Jewish law like you see in the Koran
yes thats very true
-
Plain and simple. G-d commanded not only Joshua but all of Am Yisrael. The recieving of the Torah was a public thing, and something that even the nations do not disagree with. We know that G-d gave the Torah to Am Yisrael and He commanded them in doing what was necessary and His orders.
Hitler, muslims and everyone else are acting on the accounts on 1 man. No witnesses there. Look at all the religions and cults, everything started with 1 person- with no witnesses at all. Who is to believe Mohammed that an angel came to him? Who is to believe that this person or the next makes a claim to be true when their isn't even another witness? The Torah on the other hand was given in front of MIllions, so what it says is from G-d who knows better then us.
Your argument is a good one. And of course I believe the writings of the Torah to be true. I believe the writings of the Koran to be regurgitated false trash from the Torah and the Gospels. My point is that from a strictly human observation, Joshua was no different than Hitler in what he did; killing others because they were not like him.
-
In parts of the Torah it said that the Jews wiped out entire communities. Yet in other parts, those same enemies of the Jews (canaanites and philistines) pop up, which might lead a person to believe that the Jews didn't do as G-d told them to do.
Good point Lisa, there always have been self-hating, left-wing Jews who did not want to kill the legions who were trying to murder them. How many Canaanites/Midianites do you think there were that did not want to exterminate the Israelites though, Lisa?
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
I think you will be banned soon, if you say such things. >:(
-
Plain and simple. G-d commanded not only Joshua but all of Am Yisrael. The recieving of the Torah was a public thing, and something that even the nations do not disagree with. We know that G-d gave the Torah to Am Yisrael and He commanded them in doing what was necessary and His orders.
Hitler, muslims and everyone else are acting on the accounts on 1 man. No witnesses there. Look at all the religions and cults, everything started with 1 person- with no witnesses at all. Who is to believe Mohammed that an angel came to him? Who is to believe that this person or the next makes a claim to be true when their isn't even another witness? The Torah on the other hand was given in front of MIllions, so what it says is from G-d who knows better then us.
Your argument is a good one. And of course I believe the writings of the Torah to be true. I believe the writings of the Koran to be regurgitated false trash from the Torah and the Gospels. My point is that from a strictly human observation, Joshua was no different than Hitler in what he did; killing others because they were not like him.
huh?! that makes absolutely no sense! Joshua didn't go collect 6 million of a certain kind and torture themand burn them in gas chambers and try to conquer the whole continent or whole world..what are you talking about!? What you dimwit idiot you are.
-
Ah yes, Moses was black, Jesus was black, David was black, and those darned pesky Jews are all impostors!
-
I believe our troll is one Paul Fitzgerald Bennett, who is black. He publishes a newsletter called The New Majority, targeted towards black people in the Houston area.
-
Maybe the Mother Plane will do us the favor of removing his arse from our forum if we wish and pray hard enough!
-
I know i saw his address and googled it in any event study this http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.full
-
Hmmm...I smell a a storm (front) brewing.
I'm going to paraphrase the ultra right wing blogger Lawrence Auster on this one. In parts of the Torah it said that the Jews wiped out entire communities. Yet in other parts, those same enemies of the Jews (canaanites and philistines) pop up, which might lead a person to believe that the Jews didn't do as G-d told them to do.
Anyway, Auster says that some of those killings did indeed happen. But the difference, he says is that they were just events that happened. The killings were never codified into Jewish law like you see in the Koran.
So if you're really serious, as opposed to being a snot-nosed troll, you can go and check his blog for yourself -- http://amnation.com/vfr
The post was written a while back, so do a search when you get to his blog.
In the Koran, you have suras that say do not take Christians and Jews for friends, kill the infidels wherever you find them, cut off their ears and noses, etc. Furthermore, there's no equivalent in Judaism to jihad.
Lisa, I am in agreement with everything you wrote (accept the snot-nosed troll comment). The point I'm making is that all humans have episodes of doing bad things to others. Now whether or not it was told to them to do something bad by God, is left up to interpretation.
I noticed you mentioned the fact of me being Black and writing my name (Paul Bennett) and publication. Is there a point in this? And just so you know my publication The New Majority is targeted towards African, Asian, and Latino Americans. Which means that Jews (who are an Asian people) fall in that category. We have done several stories of importance to The New Majority Jewish community.
-
Hitler never sayd that he received a revelation. He only mentioned diffuse, that he was destined by the prevision for power.
Everbody with some knowledge in Islam knows, that this whole religion is a madeup story. It was created as justification for hate and a master-people-ideology in order to steal rob enslave and murder Christians and Jews.
National-socialism and Islam are evil ideologies and lies.
The five books of Moses are the truth and the core of righteous human faith.
This is the difference.
Pheasant I am in total agreement with you except for one thing. Hitler did say that he had inspiration from God. Before he became the Chancellor of Germany Hitler said, “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter ”, and as he launched WW II that devastated Europe Hitler said “I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany.” In 1940, Adolf Hitler said, “But there is something else I believe, and that is that there is a God. . . . And this God again has blessed our efforts..”
In another speech to the German people Hitler said , “ The mercy of the Lord slowly returns to us again. And in this hour we sink to our knees and beseech our almighty God that he may bless us, that He may give us the strength to carry on the struggle for the freedom, the future, the honor, and the peace of our people. So help us God.” .
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
I think you will be banned soon, if you say such things. >:(
And she calling me a Babylonian Jew (something I suppose she means to be negative) is okay? Pheasant, not one time was I disrespectful to anyone until this idiot wrote what she wrote. Am I not to respond to her ignorance?
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
I think you will be banned soon, if you say such things. >:(
And by the way as an African American, I too...like Mr. Obama am a MUTT! And proud of it!
-
g-dhelpus, I don't personally care what your race is. JTF doesn't care about the color of people's skin. I just didn't want the people here to confuse you with a previous white nationalist troll whose username was Babylonian Jew.
After all, there are white nationalist anti-semites, and there are also black and Muslim anti-Semites. I think the reason Obama got so much of the Jewish vote is that the ditzy liberal Jews think only whites can be racist anti-semites. They also idolize the Democratic party so much that they would even elect Yasser Arafat if he had a "D" next to his name.
-
Plain and simple. G-d commanded not only Joshua but all of Am Yisrael. The recieving of the Torah was a public thing, and something that even the nations do not disagree with. We know that G-d gave the Torah to Am Yisrael and He commanded them in doing what was necessary and His orders.
Hitler, muslims and everyone else are acting on the accounts on 1 man. No witnesses there. Look at all the religions and cults, everything started with 1 person- with no witnesses at all. Who is to believe Mohammed that an angel came to him? Who is to believe that this person or the next makes a claim to be true when their isn't even another witness? The Torah on the other hand was given in front of MIllions, so what it says is from G-d who knows better then us.
Your argument is a good one. And of course I believe the writings of the Torah to be true. I believe the writings of the Koran to be regurgitated false trash from the Torah and the Gospels. My point is that from a strictly human observation, Joshua was no different than Hitler in what he did; killing others because they were not like him.
huh?! that makes absolutely no sense! Joshua didn't go collect 6 million of a certain kind and torture themand burn them in gas chambers and try to conquer the whole continent or whole world..what are you talking about!? What you dimwit idiot you are.
Is this a site where people who simply raise questions are systematically ridiculed because they make others uncomfortable? Let me attempt to stay clean.
You are right, Joshua did not go around killing 6 million of a certain kind. But he did kill thousands of a certain kind. The point I'm making is that the pain experienced by those thousands in terms of either dying or seeing loved ones die, was no different than those during the Holocaust who saw their loved ones get murder. Or do you get that?
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
I think you will be banned soon, if you say such things. >:(
And she calling me a Babylonian Jew (something I suppose she means to be negative) is okay? Pheasant, not one time was I disrespectful to anyone until this idiot wrote what she wrote. Am I not to respond to her ignorance?
Do you believe, that only Jews with oriental background are the real Jews and Jews with occidental background (i.e Aschkenasim) are not?
If I understood something wrong, I apologize.
-
Ah yes, Moses was black, Jesus was black, David was black, and those darned pesky Jews are all impostors!
Well since you brought it up, let's talk about it. Moses was born in Africa. Jesus is described as having hair like wool and feet like brass. David I'm not so sure of. But his son Solomon called himself Black. And those darned pesky Jews are NOT imposters. They gave us the greatest books ever written and the greatest human who ever lived in the form of Jesus (I am Christian). And I thank them for it.
-
G-dhelpus, don't act like an ignorant victim. You came here and right off the bat compared Jews to Arab terrorists.
Now tell me, do Jews encourage their children to blow themselves up in an effort to kill as many non-Jews as possible? Did Jews cheer on 9/11 when America was attacked? Do Jews go around making videos of them beheading their victims with dull knives?
To respond to your question about Joshua, that was one event that happend, and was never subsequently codified into Jewish law. These were people that sacrificed their own children to their idols.
I think it's safe to say that no Jew you speak to will ever condone genocide. So I don't see what your point is, that you would repeatedly bring up Joshua out of all Jewish history. What's your point?
As the saying goes, people in glass houses should not throw stones.
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
I think you will be banned soon, if you say such things. >:(
And she calling me a Babylonian Jew (something I suppose she means to be negative) is okay? Pheasant, not one time was I disrespectful to anyone until this idiot wrote what she wrote. Am I not to respond to her ignorance?
Do you believe, that only Jews with oriental background are the real Jews and Jews with occidental background (i.e Aschkenasim) are not?
If I understood something wrong, I apologize.
Of course not, Pheasant. I let my anger get control of me by responding to an obvious fool.
-
Ah yes, Moses was black, Jesus was black, David was black, and those darned pesky Jews are all impostors!
Well since you brought it up, let's talk about it. Moses was born in Africa. Jesus is described as having hair like wool and feet like brass. David I'm not so sure of. But his son Solomon called himself Black. And those darned pesky Jews are NOT imposters. They gave us the greatest books ever written and the greatest human who ever lived in the form of Jesus (I am Christian). And I thank them for it.
Moses was born in Egypt, while technically Egypt is in Africa, it is hardly Zulu territory, and as for Jesus having hair like wool, you've never heard of the Jew fro!? ;D
-
G-dhelpus, don't act like an ignorant victim. You came here and right off the bat compared Jews to Arab terrorists.
Now tell me, do Jews encourage their children to blow themselves up in an effort to kill as many non-Jews as possible? Did Jews cheer on 9/11 when America was attacked? Do Jews go around making videos of them beheading their victims with dull knives?
To respond to your question about Joshua, that was one event that happend, and was never subsequently codified into Jewish law. These were people that sacrificed their own children to their idols.
I think it's safe to say that no Jew you speak to will ever condone genocide. So I don't see what your point is, that you would repeatedly bring up Joshua out of all Jewish history. What's your point?
As the saying goes, people in glass houses should not throw stones.
Okay Lisa...here it goes. I did not compare Jews to Islamic Terrorist. I compared Joshua to an Islamic Terrorist. I to believe as you write that "it's safe to say that no Jew you speak to will ever condone genocide." And as a descendant of African Slaves where millions of my people lost their lives during the boat ride from Africa to America and Europe, I to do not condone genocide.
But you write that I simply "bring up Joshua out of all Jewish history". Well there are other examples of Jewish Terrorism. Just like there are countless examples of African Terrorism. Jews played a big role in the African Slave trade. Africans played a big role in the African slave trade. And so on and so on. And you are right "people in glass houses should not throw stones." That's why mind is made out of brick.
-
Ah yes, Moses was black, Jesus was black, David was black, and those darned pesky Jews are all impostors!
Well since you brought it up, let's talk about it. Moses was born in Africa. Jesus is described as having hair like wool and feet like brass. David I'm not so sure of. But his son Solomon called himself Black. And those darned pesky Jews are NOT imposters. They gave us the greatest books ever written and the greatest human who ever lived in the form of Jesus (I am Christian). And I thank them for it.
Moses was born in Egypt, while technically Egypt is in Africa, it is hardly Zulu territory, and as for Jesus having hair like wool, you've never heard of the Jew fro!? ;D
Okay...here's a thought for you there are a lot of dark skinned Egyptians. But the Jesus "Jew Fro" comment made me laugh. ;D ;D
-
I've seen Jew-fros.
I've seen some african Jews with semi-fros.
Sort of like "welcome back conner" TV series.
Folks, give this wigger a chance. 'no wat i'm sain?
I've been looking at his posts and really don't see him coming out swinging. no wat i'm sain?
He hasn't been dis'speckfol. no wat i'm sain?
no wat i'm sain?
-
Plain and simple. G-d commanded not only Joshua but all of Am Yisrael. The recieving of the Torah was a public thing, and something that even the nations do not disagree with. We know that G-d gave the Torah to Am Yisrael and He commanded them in doing what was necessary and His orders.
Hitler, muslims and everyone else are acting on the accounts on 1 man. No witnesses there. Look at all the religions and cults, everything started with 1 person- with no witnesses at all. Who is to believe Mohammed that an angel came to him? Who is to believe that this person or the next makes a claim to be true when their isn't even another witness? The Torah on the other hand was given in front of MIllions, so what it says is from G-d who knows better then us.
Your argument is a good one. And of course I believe the writings of the Torah to be true. I believe the writings of the Koran to be regurgitated false trash from the Torah and the Gospels. My point is that from a strictly human observation, Joshua was no different than Hitler in what he did; killing others because they were not like him.
huh?! that makes absolutely no sense! Joshua didn't go collect 6 million of a certain kind and torture themand burn them in gas chambers and try to conquer the whole continent or whole world..what are you talking about!? What you dimwit idiot you are.
Is this a site where people who simply raise questions are systematically ridiculed because they make others uncomfortable? Let me attempt to stay clean.
You are right, Joshua did not go around killing 6 million of a certain kind. But he did kill thousands of a certain kind. The point I'm making is that the pain experienced by those thousands in terms of either dying or seeing loved ones die, was no different than those during the Holocaust who saw their loved ones get murder. Or do you get that?
YOu are trying to equate wars between armies to the the mass murdering holocaust...YOu seem like an intelligent educated guy...The fact that you are trying to distort things is what is rubbing me the wrong way. Hitler murdered innocent people systematically and in large numbers for an ideal for a purified race. Joshua led an army to fight nations that were going to eliminate the Israelites. I'm sorry, I'm not for sitting pretty when someone is going to come and pursue me and my people to kill me. I would rather their plans be frustrated and that their wishes to destroy me and my people to go back at them in reverse. There is nothing wrong with defending our nation and ourself when there are those out there who hate you and plan on to destroy you.
Hitler went and murdered innocent people who had no plans on murdering Germans...Joshua got an army together and fought against the enemy nations of the ISraelites. If he didn't then there would probably be no Jews today..and certainly from a Jewish perspective, nobody would believe in Gd.
YOu try to find a moral equivalency of the bible and nazism...that's obviously disgusting and your brains are all scrambled. You are a dimwit idiot.
-
Their is no comparison between what Joshua did to the Cannanites and what Hitler did to the Jews. 1- G-d told the whole nation to do what they did, and if it happened that the Quron was truly given by G-d, then I wouldn't object to the killings of infidels, but the facts are that their are absolutly no witnesses to the quron being Holy, + their are many errors.
2- Their is no comparison because if the Cananites were kept alive (as has mistakenly happened) they would pose a danger to Jewish life. Their would be and their was constant fighting with them which meant that many of OUR lives were in danger becuase of them. Jews didn't pose any danger( besides the illusions of hitler and the Nazis that they made up) to Germany or anyone else. Infact wherever the Jews are, those are places that prosper, when Jews leave Divine blessings are gone- look at history.
Also about Jews and slave trade, it is simply NOT true. If anything the one's who are most responsible for it are Muslim Arabs, other blacks themselves and southern Cristians who owned plantations.
-
G-dhelpus, don't act like an ignorant victim. You came here and right off the bat compared Jews to Arab terrorists.
Now tell me, do Jews encourage their children to blow themselves up in an effort to kill as many non-Jews as possible? Did Jews cheer on 9/11 when America was attacked? Do Jews go around making videos of them beheading their victims with dull knives?
To respond to your question about Joshua, that was one event that happend, and was never subsequently codified into Jewish law. These were people that sacrificed their own children to their idols.
I think it's safe to say that no Jew you speak to will ever condone genocide. So I don't see what your point is, that you would repeatedly bring up Joshua out of all Jewish history. What's your point?
As the saying goes, people in glass houses should not throw stones.
Okay Lisa...here it goes. I did not compare Jews to Islamic Terrorist. I compared Joshua to an Islamic Terrorist. I to believe as you write that "it's safe to say that no Jew you speak to will ever condone genocide." And as a descendant of African Slaves where millions of my people lost their lives during the boat ride from Africa to America and Europe, I to do not condone genocide.
But you write that I simply "bring up Joshua out of all Jewish history". Well there are other examples of Jewish Terrorism. Just like there are countless examples of African Terrorism. Jews played a big role in the African Slave trade. Africans played a big role in the African slave trade. And so on and so on. And you are right "people in glass houses should not throw stones." That's why mind is made out of brick.
WRONG!!! AFrican kings played a role in the african slave trade...not Jews...
You maintain dimwit idiot status...
-
YOu are trying to equate wars between armies to the the mass murdering holocaust...YOu seem like an intelligent educated guy...The fact that you are trying to distort things is what is rubbing me the wrong way. Hitler murdered innocent people systematically and in large numbers for an ideal for a purified race. Joshua led an army to fight nations that were going to eliminate the Israelites. I'm sorry, I'm not for sitting pretty when someone is going to come and pursue me and my people to kill me. I would rather their plans be frustrated and that their wishes to destroy me and my people to go back at them in reverse. There is nothing wrong with defending our nation and ourself when there are those out there who hate you and plan on to destroy you.
Hitler went and murdered innocent people who had no plans on murdering Germans...Joshua got an army together and fought against the enemy nations of the ISraelites. If he didn't then there would probably be no Jews today..and certainly from a Jewish perspective, nobody would believe in Gd.
YOu try to find a moral equivalency of the bible and nazism...that's obviously disgusting and your brains are all scrambled. You are a dimwit idiot.
[/quote]
Dr. Dan you are wrong. The people Joshua attacked were not fighting him. Joshua was an Egyptian who went to another's land (at the behest of God) and started killing people who had other belief systems. I'm not saying that Joshua was not told by God to kill. And I am not equating Nazism to Joshua. Hell, I believe that the voice Hitler and those [censored] were hearing was that of Satan. My point is that the results were the same (whether the voice was from God or Satan). Joshua murdered innocent children. Hitler murdered innocent children. The common denominator? They were different from the murderers.
-
From Aish.com on Joshuas conquest of Cannan:
http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_14_-_Joshua_and_the_Conquest_of_the_Promised_Land.asp (http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_14_-_Joshua_and_the_Conquest_of_the_Promised_Land.asp)
This is no typical war of conquest.
The Book of Joshua begins:
And it was after the death of Moses, the servant of the Lord, that the Lord said to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, "Moses my servant has died and now arise and cross the River Jordan. You and all this nation go to the land which I give the Children of Israel. Every place on which the soles of your feet will tread I have given to you, as I have spoken to Moses. No man shall stand up before you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so shall I be with you. I will not weaken my grasp on you nor will I abandon you. Just be strong and very courageous to observe and do in accordance with all the Torah that Moses my servant has commanded you. Therefore, do not stray right or left in order that you will succeed in wherever you go."
Joshua is one of the great leaders of Jewish history. The Talmud says: "The face of Moses was like the face of the Sun, while the face of Joshua was like the face of the moon." 1 This is understood to mean that the greatness of Joshua was reflection of his teacher, Moses, which is a tremendous compliment. But it also tells us that just as the sun is much greater than the moon, which only reflects sunlight, so too, had Moses lived to enter the Land, all of Jewish history and all of human history would have been different.
After the death of Moses Joshua leads the Jewish people for 28 years.2 The Book of Joshua describes the seven years of conquest and seven years of settlement of the Land of Israel. After the land is conquered is divided into separate tribal portions via a divinely guided lottery. The Book of Joshua also describes the Biblical boundaries of the Land Of Israel.
At this time the so-called Promised Land is bounded by the Egyptian empire to the south and the Mesopotamia to the north. But it is not ruled by either of them. In fact, there is no one power ruling this section of land, rather it is settled by seven Canaanite tribes who inhabit 31 fortified city-states scattered all over the map, each ruled by its own "king."
(Jericho is one of these city-states, so is Ai, so is Jerusalem, where Canaanite tribesmen called Jebusites dwell.)
Before they enter the land, the Jewish people send an envoy to the Canaanites with the message, "God, the Creator of the Universe has promised this land to our forefathers. We are now here to claim our inheritance, and we ask you to leave peacefully."
Needless to say most of the Canaanites don't. (Only one tribe takes the offer and leaves.)
Meanwhile, Joshua has clear instructions from God that if the Canaanites don't get out, the Jews must wipe them out, because if they remain in the land they are going to corrupt the Jews. It is made clear that the Canaanites are extremely immoral and idolatrous people and the Jews cannot live with them as neighbors.
This is like saying today that living in a bad neighborhood messes up your kids. You have to always be careful about outside influences.
So what happens?
THE BATTLE OF JERICHO
The people go into the land and they fight a series of battles. The first is the battle of Jericho, the entrance to the heartland of Canaan.
Some archeologists have suggested that the easy conquest of this heavily-fortified city was made possible by a well-timed earthquake. But isn't it remarkable that precisely when the Jewish people need the city to fall, there is an earthquake and it does? No matter how you explain it, it is still miraculous.
The waters of the Jordan miraculously stop flowing and they cross on dry land, then the Jordan refills with water. Next they march around the city walls, which crumble before their eyes. They conquer the city, taking no booty as commanded by God.
It must be clear by now that this is not the typical war of conquest such as we read about in human history of bloody warfare, of raping and pillaging. God has said, "Nothing like that here. And if you follow My instructions all will go well."
ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE
The Jews move on to the next city-state, a place called Ai.
But here things don't go so smoothly. In fact, they meet with a terrible defeat with many of their number killed. Traumatized by the experience, they plead to know why God had abandoned them and quickly learn the terrible truth -- that one person, Achan, had stolen some items back in Jericho.
One person out of 3 million didn't listen to God and everyone suffers!
The fascinating thing here is that the Bible seems to be saying that obedience to God's commands is paramount and that as far as the Jews are concerned -- it is all for one and one for all.
As an outgrowth of that lesson, Judaism teaches that there is such a thing as collective responsibility as well as individual responsibility -- no person is an island, each exists as part of the whole and is responsible for the actions of others as well as his or her own. Just as in the story of the Golden Calf, every Jew is the guarantor for his fellow Jew.
In today's world, the motto seems to be "Mind your own business," or "It's not my problem." If we operated on the same level as they did back then, most of the world's problems would disappear.
LIFE IN THE LAND
Despite many difficulties on the way, the Israelites do finally lay claim to the Promised Land but their life there is far from calm, particularly after Joshua dies. The Bible relates that they had only themselves to blame:
And the children of Israel did that which was evil in the eyes of the Lord ... and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers ... and he gave them over into the hands of their enemies." (Judges 2:8-14)
From a simple reading of the text, one might assume that the entire Jewish people abandoned the Torah and started worshipping idols. But this, in fact, was not true. As with the incident of the golden calf only a small percentage of the people sinned, yet the entire nation is held accountable.
As mentioned previously, the highly self-critical nature of this passage is typical of others which make the Hebrew Bible a unique document -- a holy book of a people, but also relating the sinful history of this people. The exaggerated focus on the mistakes-the self-criticism within the text- gives extra emphasis to the lessons that the Jewish people must learn from their mistakes.
There is no question that the criticism of the Jews in the Bible is hyper-criticism, but there are two reasons why the slightest offense by a small group of people is condemned so strongly:
1. As noted above, every Jew is responsible for every other Jew, and what one does reflects on all.
2. It's such an obvious point in the moral history of the world that as soon as you tolerate something, it becomes bearable, and before long it will become common.
Therefore, here God is driving home an important point to the Jews: You're on a very high spiritual level. If you tolerate even small indiscretions by a few, eventually these few are going to pollute the nation.
Indeed, this is eventually what does happen, but before it does, the Jews enjoy a honeymoon period in the land known as the Time of Judges.
-
Well Paul, judging by the way you keep bringing up Joshua, it looks like you're just dying to scapegoat the Jews, regardless of whatever else they did throughout their history.
Also, your house is NOT made of brick.
It was the Jews who were the most active in the civil rights movement so you and your people could live freely in the U.S. Two Jews even died so you could have your civil rights. And what have gotten for it in return?
First off, we have people like Al Sharpton, who incited the murder of the people who owned Freddie's Fashion Mart in Harlem, and who incited the murder of the innocent Rabbinic student Yankel Rosenbaum. Then we have Jessie Jackson who, among other things called New York "hymietown." We also have Louis Farrakhan, who called Judaism a "gutter" religion, and who called Hitler a "great man." Who else??? There's also Jeremiah "G-damn America" Wright who's a Farrakhan and a Hamas fan. Then Barack Obama who sat in that hateful church for 20 years.
So quite frankly, I'm tired of you coming here whining about Joshua killing some Canaanites.
You're banned!
-
Joshua was an Egyptian who went to another's land (at the behest of G-d) and started killing people who had other belief systems. I'm not saying that Joshua was not told by G-d to kill.
Joshua murdered innocent children. Hitler murdered innocent children. The common denominator? They were different from the murderers.
These two phrases inevitably lead to conclusion: Joshua only fulfilled orders. It was the cruel G-d who issued the orders to kill innoncent people.
Do you realy think so, godhelpus?
-
Oops, I was minute late with my reply. The opponent was banned ;D
-
Don't waste time arguing with BabylonianJew, one of Tina Greco's friends.
Do you really want to go there? Well let's. Technically, Babylonian Jews and all other Middle East origin Jews are the real Jews. The rest of you are European mutt trash.
this was disgusting, certainly deserved a ban.
-
I would love to see God give some more Tanach orders. I would not question.
-
Just so you guys no, the troll just tried signing on to the forum again as praisegod. Of course I rejected his membership application.
-
Very good Lisa... This low-life seems to have trouble understanding the most basic concepts of our beliefs. It must be because it is an Amalekite. I cant believe he doesnt understand why Joshua had to remove the canaanites from the land. Regardless, this guy was crazy for making such claims that Jews are black, etc... I hope he chokes on his gonads...
-
YOu are trying to equate wars between armies to the the mass murdering holocaust...YOu seem like an intelligent educated guy...The fact that you are trying to distort things is what is rubbing me the wrong way. Hitler murdered innocent people systematically and in large numbers for an ideal for a purified race. Joshua led an army to fight nations that were going to eliminate the Israelites. I'm sorry, I'm not for sitting pretty when someone is going to come and pursue me and my people to kill me. I would rather their plans be frustrated and that their wishes to destroy me and my people to go back at them in reverse. There is nothing wrong with defending our nation and ourself when there are those out there who hate you and plan on to destroy you.
Hitler went and murdered innocent people who had no plans on murdering Germans...Joshua got an army together and fought against the enemy nations of the ISraelites. If he didn't then there would probably be no Jews today..and certainly from a Jewish perspective, nobody would believe in Gd.
YOu try to find a moral equivalency of the bible and nazism...that's obviously disgusting and your brains are all scrambled. You are a dimwit idiot.
Dr. Dan you are wrong. The people Joshua attacked were not fighting him. Joshua was an Egyptian who went to another's land (at the behest of G-d) and started killing people who had other belief systems. I'm not saying that Joshua was not told by G-d to kill. And I am not equating Nazism to Joshua. Hell, I believe that the voice Hitler and those morons were hearing was that of Satan. My point is that the results were the same (whether the voice was from G-d or Satan). Joshua murdered innocent children. Hitler murdered innocent children. The common denominator? They were different from the murderers.
[/quote]
So I guess from your twisted logic, George Washington is a Nazi terrorist because he went and killed the British....you are such a moron...
-
YOu are trying to equate wars between armies to the the mass murdering holocaust...YOu seem like an intelligent educated guy...The fact that you are trying to distort things is what is rubbing me the wrong way. Hitler murdered innocent people systematically and in large numbers for an ideal for a purified race. Joshua led an army to fight nations that were going to eliminate the Israelites. I'm sorry, I'm not for sitting pretty when someone is going to come and pursue me and my people to kill me. I would rather their plans be frustrated and that their wishes to destroy me and my people to go back at them in reverse. There is nothing wrong with defending our nation and ourself when there are those out there who hate you and plan on to destroy you.
Hitler went and murdered innocent people who had no plans on murdering Germans...Joshua got an army together and fought against the enemy nations of the ISraelites. If he didn't then there would probably be no Jews today..and certainly from a Jewish perspective, nobody would believe in Gd.
YOu try to find a moral equivalency of the bible and nazism...that's obviously disgusting and your brains are all scrambled. You are a dimwit idiot.
Dr. Dan you are wrong. The people Joshua attacked were not fighting him. Joshua was an Egyptian who went to another's land (at the behest of G-d) and started killing people who had other belief systems. I'm not saying that Joshua was not told by G-d to kill. And I am not equating Nazism to Joshua. Hell, I believe that the voice Hitler and those morons were hearing was that of Satan. My point is that the results were the same (whether the voice was from G-d or Satan). Joshua murdered innocent children. Hitler murdered innocent children. The common denominator? They were different from the murderers.
So I guess from your twisted logic, George Washington is a Nazi terrorist because he went and killed the British....you are such a moron...
[/quote]
Indeed.
-
Just so you guys no, the troll just tried signing on to the forum again as praisegod. Of course I rejected his membership application.
I wonder which G-d he is praising?
-
1. Joshua and the Jews offered the Canaanites the option of voluntarily leaving the Land of Israel. The Girgashim agreed to do so, settling in what is today Ethiopia.
2. If the Canaanites refused the offer to leave voluntarily, then the Jews were commanded to be merciless against them in the war. Why? Because in Torah Judaism, you are not allowed to merciful to the cruel. The Canaanites were brutal mass murderers who would have exterminated the Jews if they had the chance. The Canaanites had a long history of savagely exterminating other nations. So the Jews were simply carrying out justice against Nazi mass murderers.
3. The original Egyptians, the Canaanites and certainly the Hebrews were not black. These ancient nations were all highly intelligent people unlike African blacks, who have always been the most backward people on the face of the earth. Sub-Saharan blacks have never had an advanced civilization. They never even had a written language of their own until foreigners introduced them to reading and writing.
4. The black slave trade was started by blacks and Arabs. Blacks have always been brutal toward their fellow blacks. Just look at black on black crime, black fathers abandoning their own babies, black murder, black rape, black drug dealers selling poison to children in their own communities. Blacks are generally speaking a very cruel and evil people. There are exceptions, but black history is so barbaric that it almost defies description.
5. If not for self-hating Jews helping blacks, the blacks would have nothing today. Jewish brains made the "civil rights" movement a success. Jews owed blacks nothing, but helped them out of a sense of idealism. How were the Jews thanked? The vast majority of blacks are vicious Jew-haters. That includes this hideous poster whose ignorance is only exceeded by his arrogance.
-
I noticed that Neo-Nazis and Muslims always bring up the Canaanites... illustrating how cruel the Jews are... but many of them won't even acknowledge that the Israelites that succeeded the Canaanites even existed.
I guess this goes back to them only reading 4 pages a year. :::D
-
Godhelpus -
If you have a legitimate question or concern, I have seen on many occasions how the members of the JTF are willing to explore different points of view. What you did amounted to an attack, not a debate. This is why you got the responses that you did.
Please listen to the "Ask JTF" segment for 12/7/08. I had a dilemma over the correct response of the Jewish people to acts of evil. However I gave a great deal of thought as to how I would phrase my concern. I did this out of respect for the members of this Forum, and because I want to be open to different ideas. I certainly do not have all the answers. I got a very well thought out response that made me think and reflect on an important issue to me.
I seems like you had already made up your mind when you started this topic. I actually find this quite sad for you as with this mind set you will never learn and grow.
-
um isn't the guy banned?
And does that mean he's prohibited from posting or from both posting and reading the forum?
It's a shame he couldn't read Chaim's answer among others if that's what happens if you're banned.
-
um isn't the guy banned?
And does that mean he's prohibited from posting or from both posting and reading the forum?
It's a shame he couldn't read Chaim's answer among others if that's what happens if you're banned.
How could he be banned from READING the forum?
-
Are you "answering" my questions with a question?
I have never been banned, and would not know.
:clap: if that is how BANNING works.
The word BAN implies a lot more than preventing someone from posting.
Simple answers to clarify would have been nice, SHEESH briann!
-
um isn't the guy banned?
And does that mean he's prohibited from posting or from both posting and reading the forum?
It's a shame he couldn't read Chaim's answer among others if that's what happens if you're banned.
How could he be banned from READING the forum?
is that supposed to be a technical question?
The forum software could see his IP and display a page saying "You are banned", instead of the main forum page. If not the forum software, then the web server itself.
There have been banned members before, they can't view the forum, can't view their own posts. or anybody elses.
-
um isn't the guy banned?
And does that mean he's prohibited from posting or from both posting and reading the forum?
It's a shame he couldn't read Chaim's answer among others if that's what happens if you're banned.
How could he be banned from READING the forum?
is that supposed to be a technical question?
The forum software could see his IP and display a page saying "You are banned", instead of the main forum page. If not the forum software, then the web server itself.
There have been banned members before, they can't view the forum, can't view their own posts. or anybody elses.
Thank you very much q_q_ for clarifying. In which case, it is a shame the guy can not read Chaim's answer. Oh well.
-
But what if he is using a machine in a library or other institution, he will be able to read it because I think you can read the forum without having to log in.
This is the problem with banning based only on the IP, also some ISPs dont give out static IPs and a persons cable modem could get a new IP address assigned to it.
-
When I ban people, I don't ban their IP's -- only their email addresses and user names. It creates lots of problems when you ban someone's IP address because others can have the same one.
-
satanhelpus:
If you have to look 3000 years back to find a Jewish "terrorist".. what does that tell you about the Jews? Have you heard any Cohens or Steinbergs blowing up buses lately?
Listen people, this guy is a waste of your time.. you have nothing to prove to him, he's not worth a 10 page discussion.
-
The Canaanites were an unspeakably evil people. The difference is simple. Yehoshua was right and Hitler ys"v was wrong.
-
But what if he is <snip>
Yeah, very good muman, there are technical ways to get round technical measures, no point spelling them out. I'm sure he won't use your computer though.
-
When I ban people, I don't ban their IP's -- only their email addresses and user names. It creates lots of problems when you ban someone's IP address because others can have the same one.
ok.. so incase anybody isn't clear.. He can read the forum (given that particular type of ban).
-
Are you "answering" my questions with a question?
I have never been banned, and would not know.
:clap: if that is how BANNING works.
The word BAN implies a lot more than preventing someone from posting.
Simple answers to clarify would have been nice, SHEESH briann!
OHHHHH K? How could you possibly be offended to such a degree by my comment/question??? When you read it... .did you start yelling at the computer!!! HOW DARE BRIANN WRITE SOMETHING SO CONDESESCENDING AND RUDE LIKE 'How could someone be banned from reading'. :::D :::D
-
Are you "answering" my questions with a question?
I have never been banned, and would not know.
:clap: if that is how BANNING works.
The word BAN implies a lot more than preventing someone from posting.
Simple answers to clarify would have been nice, SHEESH briann!
OHHHHH K? How could you possibly be offended to such a degree by my comment/question??? When you read it... .did you start yelling at the computer!!! HOW DARE BRIANN WRITE SOMETHING SO CONDESESCENDING AND RUDE LIKE 'How could someone be banned from reading'. :::D :::D
xoce is right.
Brian, your reply was ignorant of logic, ignorant of computers, and worse, it suggested that xoce didn't know what he was talking about, when he did and you didn't. It was wrong on many levels, and very bad too because it could have prevented others from giving the correct answer.
-
um isn't the guy banned?
And does that mean he's prohibited from posting or from both posting and reading the forum?
It's a shame he couldn't read Chaim's answer among others if that's what happens if you're banned.
How could he be banned from READING the forum?
is that supposed to be a technical question?
The forum software could see his IP and display a page saying "You are banned", instead of the main forum page. If not the forum software, then the web server itself.
There have been banned members before, they can't view the forum, can't view their own posts. or anybody elses.
Thank you very much q_q_ for clarifying. In which case, it is a shame the guy can not read Chaim's answer. Oh well.
well.. I only said that one form of ban involves that and members have been banned in that way before.
Lisa has since said she bans by username/em address,
(so therefore he could read the forum.)
The fact is though, that it doesn't matter whether he reads chaim's answer or not. He was a disgusting piece of garbage claiming of jews that some jews or most jews are not jews.. He fits the bill of standard black anti-semite. or standard muslim anti-semite, or standard anti-semite. Just blacks and muslims and arabs are more likely to be anti-semitic.
Chaim's answer may be of interest to others here though.. But don't think "oh great he read it , or Oh no, he didn't".. He was not a logical person, and he was a piece of garbage.
It was a shock to anti-semites like him, that ashkenazim have genes that go back to ancient israel.. (e.g. professor winston did a program and at one point he had his genes tested and the guy asked him if he was jewish and showed him that his ancestry were from ancient israel). So some less dishonest anti-semites have rejected the khazar theory they had and just fallen back on other reasons to hate jews. Of course, 20 years ago, these genetic findings didn't exist.. (though even then, many european jews were kohanim and had records and knew they were say 137th descendent of aharon the high priest. kohanim that had recorded it, had a similar figure). The fact is that it's none of his business going up to jews and telling them they are not jewish. Who is jewish and who is not jewish is something for jews to concern themselves with, and we do, we have jewish law , and jewish tradition. The genetic findings did shock people, but we didn't need that.
-
As far as I know, the orders were not to kill all of them if they would accept the yoke of the noahide laws in the Land of Israel, or agree to leave peacefully. Since these caananites were people who did human sacrifices (of their own children), I find it hard to believe they had all that much grief about it when those who chose to stay and fight got their behinds handed to them.