JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: lebanese on January 16, 2009, 02:25:09 AM
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I always read and hear about pressures on the Lebanese government to nationalize its Palestinians. I really cannot understand why Lebanon should nationalize them. These people created a war in Lebanon, used Lebanon as their military base against Israel. They are also a threat to our communitarian system, a threat to the security of both Lebanon and Israel ( admit that they will never be controlled ). Lebanon has also the highest density and is so small and not rich at all to absorb them. So how come the world will never understand that nationalizing them in Lebanon is a danger to the peace in the Middle East? Why don't this world and the United States try to disperse them in many countries?
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interesting.. I hadn't heard about that in british media. where have you heard it?
I see an article about it in the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/middleeast/06lebanon.html?pagewanted=print
what is the history of these refugees?
they're meant to be arabs in israel, that fled
with the one in that story , it says "Mr. Hamdallah did not flee when Israel was formed over the former Palestine in 1948"
if he didn't flee, he'd be an "israeli arab" surely. would he have fled in 1967?
it has him fleeing jordan for lebanon (the month of black september).
I guess british media don't want to talk about arab human rights violations!
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“They are not persons in front of the law,” said Stéphane Jacquemet, regional representative for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Lebanon. “They live in camps, don’t have access to services, schools, hospitals, and strictly speaking a person with no documents can be arrested. "
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Palestinian refugees have been denied citizenship in Lebanon for years, and they are prohibited from practicing more than 70 professions
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Fact is, they don't deserve human rights..
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. Hamdallah was one of those militants. He arrived in Lebanon when the Palestine Liberation Organization — then ensconced in southern Lebanon — was at the height of its power, and so he never thought about legalizing his status.
“The revolution was strong, I was strong,” Mr. Hamdallah said in an interview. “I never thought about identification papers or what would happen to me and to my children without them.”
But when the P.L.O. was driven out of Lebanon in 1982, “I started pitying myself,”
...
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Mr. Hamdallah did not flee when Israel was formed over the former Palestine in 1948, and so he and his family did not meet the United Nations definition of Palestinian refugees. In Lebanon, the P.L.O. was blamed for igniting civil war, and so Mr. Hamdallah, like others with his background, were not welcomed.
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All the way up to 1982, did israel touch lebanon?
I read about the 1967 war being on 3 fronts. egypt, jordan, syria. Did lebanon attack israel in 1967?
I know that israel didn't occupy lebanon in 48 or 67.
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Lebanese, there is no such thing as a Palestinian. Please do not use this phony propaganda term here.
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The only thing keeping the palis from going berserk in Lebanon is that they know Hizbullah will massacre them if they ever truly pose a threat.
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Lebanese, there is no such thing as a Palestinian. Please do not use this phony propaganda term here.
Palestinian is another name for terrorist. Correct C.F. ^5
Shalom - Dox
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Let's just focus on intelligent discussion first..
one can put palestinian in quotes, "palestinian"
it refers to arabs that fled israel in 1948 or 1967, the ones that stayed are usually referred to as "israeli-arabs". It's good to know what arabs you are talking about, even though an arab is an arab. They live in different areas at different times and have their own issues.
let's not get diverted..
You are in a unique situation to explain the situation of what is happening in Lebanon.
Lebanese: Can you explain the situation in lebanon, for example, syrian occupation. What did it involve.. Human rights violations e.t.c.
How did life compare before and after?
What would nationalizing them do to lebanon?
(nationalized or not, they would hate israel)
How were things before the 1970s, compared to after the syrian occupation?
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Let's just focus on intelligent discussion first..
one can put palestinian in quotes, "palestinian"
it refers to arabs that fled israel in 1948 or 1967, the ones that stayed are usually referred to as "israeli-arabs". It's good to know what arabs you are talking about, even though an arab is an arab. They live in different areas at different times and have their own issues.
let's not get diverted..
You are in a unique situation to explain the situation of what is happening in Lebanon.
Lebanese: Can you explain the situation in lebanon, for example, syrian occupation. What did it involve.. Human rights violations e.t.c.
How did life compare before and after?
What would nationalizing them do to lebanon?
(nationalized or not, they would hate israel)
How were things before the 1970s, compared to after the syrian occupation?
Oh.. This seems to be a very long discussion. I can say briefly that I mean the Palestinians who came to Lebanon in 1948. They had children in Lebanon. They were 160,000 I guess now they are half a million.
Regarding the Human Rights violations, I think that the Syrian presence in Lebanon was the worst period that Lebanon would have ever been through. I can't imagine any nation in the world that would have suffered what Lebanon has suffered from the Syrians. They "began" interfering in the war of Lebanon in 1976 when they entered Lebanon as peacemakers. Basically, they were always the country from which the Palestinians used to receive their weapons from Russia and maybe from other countries. You should of course know that the Palestinian presence in Lebanon and the Henry Kissinger plan to remove the Christians of Lebanon who have been in Lebanon for thousands of years before Jesus even came and to join the Lebanese diaspora. (Lebanon has a huge diaspora that is maybe 5 times more than the residents in Lebanon). Syria committed a lot of atrocity crimes, mainly against the Christians in Lebanon. (the massacre of Damour as an eg). From what I think is that Syria prefers a Lebanon in trouble to justify its presence in Lebanon or a supposed reoccupation. The occupation of Lebanon after the end of the 1990 war was till 2005. Syria established a government completely in its hands. The government was a very corrupt one. The debt raised from 1 billion or more to 50 billions now. Syria terrorized the Lebanese. They used to try to stop any demonstration against them, they have many detainees in their prisons(mainly from the Lebanese army who tried to resist them in 1990 before the end of the war).. Lebanon was so dirty during their presence. You would see the streets full of Syrian workers. Many believe that the workers are sometimes more intelligence agents than simple workers. Because many of them don't even work in Lebanon. I remember when I used to protest against them being very harshly treated. Of course since Im a girl and I wasnt as courageous as the others, I wasnt beaten but they used to throw on us very cold water with an extremely high pressure(the one of the fire extinguisher). And this was few years ago and we were very young!!! Also, many believe that a lot of Lebanon's monuments are in the hands of Lebanese officials and Syrian ones also.
Syria used the Palestinian presence to weaken Lebanon. The war in 1975 began when the Palestinians under Yasser Arafat control shot many Christian Lebanese. Then the lebanese forces fired a palestinian bus. After that, the muslims did not take a clear position with the christians. they fough on the palestinian side.
What I believe of the nationalisation of the palestinians today is that it is a big danger to Lebanon. In Jordan, they were screwed. In Lebanon, they took advantage of our hospitality. I think that Lebanon is dense, small, has a very complex communitary system, and is a very fragile country. The Palestinians are still not respecting Lebanon integrity. Look at what happened between the Lebanese army and the Palestinians few months ago. Also, the Palestinians will never change their attitude towards Lebanon. They never respected our integrity and will always take advantage of the weak state of Lebanon to launch operations against Israel. It is so hard to stop them. That's why the best solution is to put them out of Lebanon. and to dismantle them into various countries.
The past should not be revived.
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Lebanon before 1970s was called Paris and Switzerland of the East. We used to be a rich and developed country with a very strong banking system. Beyrouth was mother of legislations during the Roman Empire.
What nationalizing the Palestinians do to Lebanon:
Before reading, keep in mind that Lebanon was the worst place for the Palestinians after the end of the war. because there is a lot of hatred against them, and that all the communities agree that they do not them, except maybe for some fanatic Sunnis, Lebanon has given them no rights. Lebanon was basically afraid that once these people have the right to work, to own a property, they may have in the future more privileges and become citizens(like in Jordan).
1- Muslim state.
2- A more radicalist and arabic state. Lebanon would stop being the country of various and different cultures.
3- Great danger to Lebanon security. Take the other arab countries as an example? Why do you think you have peace with them? It is because they have dictatorial regimes. In Lebanon, it is more democratic. They can have influence on the relations between Lebanon and Israel. Even though with the rising of an arabism in Lebanon, and even though Lebanon becomes a dictatorial state, the question is which dictatory? Is it the Palestinian or the Lebanese muslim one? The past events of the 2008 year with some Palestinians showed us how string they are. They can have a putsch.
4- Lebanon had suffered from economic problems during the Syrian occupation. This extra small country should give priority to the 20 million Lebanese (of course not all of them), give the priority to the Lebanese since Lebanon is to be governed by the Lebanese not by the Palestinians.
5- Lebanon is the most densely populated country in the arab world.
etc. etc.
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q q
Regarding the criminality of the Palestinians, many of them if not most of their men are criminals. They were the major actor against the Lebanese in the beginning of the war. Read what the man said about the revolution. It is the revolution from Lebanon that was against the Lebanese during the 1975-1990 war in Lebanon. The media doesn't want to be objective. In many countries, the media is blaming Lebanon for its mistreatment of the Palestinians. This media does not mention why this is like this. How many families have been killed. the media does not mention the system of terror of the Palestinians in beirut, of the bloody Yasser Arafat. The media simply does not care and does not want to learn from the past. LEBANON IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE FOR THE PALESTINIANS.
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Excuse me for my english. Since I speak more french or arabic:)
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I don't care what befalls the fakenstinians in Lebanon or anywhere. The same goes for any other quranimal beast living there. If and when the Jewish people liberates their ancestral lands in Lebanon then all quranimals will be forced to leave as well as any Christian who supports them.
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I love that picture Zelhar. There's a prime example of the "picture is worth a thousand words" quote.
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Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..
Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
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The main problem is not "palestinians". The real problem is Israeli ruling elite that does not believe in the simple fact that G-d gave us the Land of Israel. Divine Torah is our ultimate right and obligation to live and rule in the Land of Israel, not UN, US, Russia or any other.
Israeli goverment betrayed South Lebanon army, the IDF ally, in 2000 when it exited (read "fled") Lebanon.
I don't like the term "quranimal" when applied to muslim Arabs. Torah has no such description. But it has a better one: Savage Man ("Pere Adam"). "Man" because he belives in One G-d, "Savage" because he spreads His knowledge by utterly barbaric methods.
They respect POWER. If they see you are weak, they'll tear you into pieces. But if they see you are really strong (not only in military terms) they will recpect you.
We the Jews should not hate the Arabs. Instead, we must feel confident that Israel is ours because G-d Himself says so, and behave accordingly.
(Israeli Left does just the opposite: it does hate Arabs and believes that they are true owners of the Land)
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Lebanese you may be not 'talking' to me but I 'hear' you anyway.
All of Lebanon up to the Litani is part of Israel and will one day be liberated. You are raising the fakenstinian problem as if it is the biggest problem of lebanon. In fact it is not, the problem is that lebanon is an evil muslim arab artifificial country.
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you really seem to be ignorant. Lebanon is not a muslim country. Also, the head of the state is Christian. Of course it would be to the Litani,.... since your concern is the water:)
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Southern Lebanon, and the Bikaa is currently Hezbullahstan, I gues you have given them up already then. Also- Lebanon has no head of state, it is a puppet state of Syria and Iran.
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No comment.
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Lebanese you may be not 'talking' to me but I 'hear' you anyway.
All of Lebanon up to the Litani is part of Israel and will one day be liberated. You are raising the fakenstinian problem as if it is the biggest problem of lebanon. In fact it is not, the problem is that lebanon is an evil muslim arab artifificial country.
I've run into a number of lebanese christians in the diaspora that are grateful to israel (I guess for invading in 1982 and pushing the PLO north, out of south lebanon)
I also recall in perhaps 2006, Brigitte Gabriel - the well known pro israel lebanese christian, had a letter on her website where lebanese christians were asking israel to train them and let them into lebanon to fight the muslims.. so they can take over again and be allies.
Now, you may not trust arabs.. But Israel is better off with a christian lebanon than a muslim one.
What Israel could do is bomb out the muslims("palestinians" and indiginous lebanese muslims) and bring the christian lebanese diaspora back in.
Bomb them into syria or wherever.
As far as world opinion is concerned, israel needn't worry, because they can say they are fighting for the rights of the indiginous christians.. who used to run the country before muslims took over.
It's very popular nowadays to support a national liberation movement!
Out of self-interest too, because they will be a less war-like neighbour.
Iran wants a muslim lebanon.. I am guessing that they paid syria to occupy lebanon and islamize it to turn it into a base to attack israel from the north.
It would be an intelligent way to stall iran's plans, and also confuse world opinion somewhat.. because israel would be doing a big favour for millions of lebanese arabs! israel may even gain a few more brigitte gabriels!
And for somebody like Netanyahu that wants american support..
America will never withdraw support because the evangelicans won't let them..
But Can you imagine the support from evangelicals in america!
Rabbi Kahane was fine with christians being pro israel, he would say they should do it for their sake, because as they know their bible, he who blesses israel is blessed.
It'll be like another 1967 for them! christians regaining lebanon .
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Lebanese - thanks for the great lengthy explanation
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Lebanese -
don't worry about silly people.. you're doing great.
apparently lebanon did attack israel in 1948..
In 1932 Lebanon was 55% christian..
and the christians still ran the country in 1975 before Syria came in.
There were no "palestinian" refugees in 1948 before the 1948 war.
The PLO was in Jordan.
So I suppose you had the indiginous lebanese muslims..
But who was attacking israel and if it was the muslims.. why didn't the lebanese govt do anything to stop them?
doesn't this show that the christian lebanese govt were no good to israel?
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Lebanese you may be not 'talking' to me but I 'hear' you anyway.
All of Lebanon up to the Litani is part of Israel and will one day be liberated. You are raising the fakenstinian problem as if it is the biggest problem of lebanon. In fact it is not, the problem is that lebanon is an evil muslim arab artifificial country.
I've run into a number of lebanese christians in the diaspora that are grateful to israel (I guess for invading in 1982 and pushing the PLO north, out of south lebanon)
I also recall in perhaps 2006, Brigitte Gabriel - the well known pro israel lebanese christian, had a letter on her website where lebanese christians were asking israel to train them and let them into lebanon to fight the muslims.. so they can take over again and be allies.
Now, you may not trust arabs.. But Israel is better off with a christian lebanon than a muslim one.
What Israel could do is bomb out the muslims("palestinians" and indiginous lebanese muslims) and bring the christian lebanese diaspora back in.
Bomb them into syria or wherever.
As far as world opinion is concerned, israel needn't worry, because they can say they are fighting for the rights of the indiginous christians.. who used to run the country before muslims took over.
It's very popular nowadays to support a national liberation movement!
Out of self-interest too, because they will be a less war-like neighbour.
Iran wants a muslim lebanon.. I am guessing that they paid syria to occupy lebanon and islamize it to turn it into a base to attack israel from the north.
It would be an intelligent way to stall iran's plans, and also confuse world opinion somewhat.. because israel would be doing a big favour for millions of lebanese arabs! israel may even gain a few more brigitte gabriels!
The Christians of Lebanon, judging their political affiliance, are either part of the Syria, and Iran block, or Part of the Suni block. There are no Brigitte Gabreil's left there, save a few individuals. Lebanon is overwhelmingly muslim with the shiite terrorists comprising the greatest component.
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<snip>
The Christians of Lebanon, judging their political affiliance, are either part of the Syria, and Iran block, or Part of the Suni block. There are no Brigitte Gabreil's left there, save a few individuals. Lebanon is overwhelmingly muslim with the shiite terrorists comprising the greatest component.
there may be a few of her in the lebanese diaspora..
so israel can bomb lebanon.. send all of them out.
and invite the lebanese diaspora back in!
it's not that far fetched.. the lebanese diaspora want to go back anyway, but left because of muslim violence ruining their country.
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Thanks a lot. I hope this would be better. From what I know or what I can search for it is that Lebanon had many refugees (I am sure they came from Jordan (Black September) and they are the 1948 ones I guess though I will try to know more about that subject). I do not think at all that the government supported them in the beginning. There were many fightings between the Lebanese army and the Palestinians before the 1975 war. the palestinians were uncontrollable. I dunno how the weapons used to come to the palestinians in lebanon. A very huge mistake that Lebanon paid for a lot was an agreement between the lebanese army and the palestinians that led to what was called the Cairo treaties that gave the palestinians the right to launch operations from lebanon to israel. this was the idea of the most hated lebanese president Charles Helou who was a very cultivated person but who was never able in his whole life to take decisions. these treaties were not at all in the favor of the security of lebanon and the peace in the middle east. but, whether the palestinians were given the right or no, im sure that the result would have been the same. the palestinians who entered lebanon and were armed through syria were uncontrollable.I do not think that Christians of Lebanon ever supported them. The main tensions in the 1960 s between the arabism and the nationalism was because of the tolerance of the muslim groups (mainly the Sunnis) towards the palestinians. Christians were already prepared to a possible confrontation from the 1960s.
there may be people in the government who did not care for the security of lebanon but more for the money they used to receive from yasser arafat, the man who collects money from all the arab countries. what i am sure of is that the vast majority of the christians was never in favor of the palestinians in lebanon. also, the fact that we were always the nationalist ones and used to fight for our country made us weaker than ever. also, there are some christians now in lebanon that are supporting hezbollah. but the leader of the christian party has lost a lot of his popularity. christians even after 2006 where even christian areas that are not in the south were bombed, still think that israel may the protectorat of the minorities in the middle east. but i dunno if i still should consider this. we re now 25 %. half of us left the country in 15 years after the syrian occupation. is it still woth it to talk about the christians of lebanon? lebanon would have lived peacefully with israel if all those wars never happened. i do not think that the sunnis (who are now more to the israeli side) would be a great ally as well. these sunnis (the actual lebanese government) were the first allies of the syrians. they may turn against you the first time they would have the chance to. they are really more fanatic than hezbolllah ( this is from my own experience).
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Lebanon should be a Christian country, but the nation's Christians have given it over to Iranian-backed muslim fanatics. Lebanon's Christian population is destined to be splintered around the globe.
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I do want to see the Christians in Lebanon as well as so many Christians in the Mid East stand together with us.. We do know what Muslims for example did to them and the Copt. But there are some I don't know maybe cause of fear that do side wit the Islamic hordes. But that is unfortunate, cause the Muslim hordes have murdered so many Christians through out that region, burn down churches, murdered Priests and Clergy and raped nuns.
Is it fear though that some do side with the Muzzheads?
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I do want to see the Christians in Lebanon as well as so many Christians in the Mid East stand together with us.. We do know what Muslims for example did to them and the Copt. But there are some I don't know maybe cause of fear that do side wit the Islamic hordes. But that is unfortunate, cause the Muslim hordes have murdered so many Christians through out that region, burn down churches, murdered Priests and Clergy and raped nuns.
Is it fear though that some do side with the Muzzheads?
They are completely hopeless. Even the former Tzadal (Southern Lebanon Army), a christian militia supported by Israel until 2000, was completely inflitrated by shiite Hezbullah agents. Instead of erradicating Islam from the little security zone which they controlled, they had let the muslims destroy them from within and the security zone became completely unsecured for Israel and for Tzadal.
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BTW, talking about silly people, QQ your proposal that Israel clears Lebanon of Islam and then invite the Lebanese Christian diaspora back is silly. They will immediately invite the muslims back to Lebanon because essentially they are cowards dihimis who afraid to fight the muslims, and fight they must, since it is the middle east. A few of them, like Samir Jaja, do have the courage to fight back, that is because some of them do have the cruel Arab mentality, and like Arabs- they are the least reliable ally.
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I agree but this is in reality the work for France, UK and USA not Israel. Imagine all this money the western countries are giving to Philistines put on good use. And Lebanese diaspora must do the same the XIX century Jews did; create their own zionist movement aimed at resetling of their ancient land; You already have money (lebanese Chrisatian diaspora in USA is very wealthy) to buy back the land; Now you have to learn how to use riffle to defend it.
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get your terms correct. There is no "Palestine" or "Palestinian." Those Arabs are arabs..just like Jordanians are arabs and Iraqis are arabs and certain Egyptians are arabs.....All arabs belong in Saudi Arabia
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Some side with the Islamists maybe to protect them because they know that Hezbollah is a very strong party. They are the half of the population having they have syrians and many palestinians with them. so standing against them may mean no existence.
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Thank you for telling us that we are cowards though I do not think so. We had a history in our country that tells us how much we were courageous. God will help us.
"For the violence done to Lebanon will overwhelm you, And the devastation of its beasts by which you terrified them, Because of human bloodshed and violence done to the land, To the town and all its inhabitants." Habakkuk 2:17
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Ultra Requete
I think you're right at some point.. The Lebanese diaspora should stand together. There are certain lands to buy but don not forget that many many lands aere occupied by the Palestinians and Hezbollah and others. In a town I used to go to in the summer, muslims have built a mosquee on lands that are to the Christians. In the town I come from, muslims have built homes on our lands.
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Lebanon should be a Christian country, but the nation's Christians have given it over to Iranian-backed muslim fanatics. Lebanon's Christian population is destined to be splintered around the globe.
Didn't Chaim say in his program that Lebanon belongs to Israel? That is to say it was bequeathed by G-d to Israel and should be included into Greater Israel. I am confused as to where the borders of the Restored Israel should be drawn, according to G-d's will. Should all of Lebanon belong to Israel or only part of it? Should Lebanon even exist? Does anyone know?
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also, this should be the international community concern. France, US and the West never cared about the Christians of Lebanon after the war. US fought against us during the war. The money is used to help the Palestinians. Europe is more concerned with its relations with the Arab countries. USA never cared and I dunno what the US wants from us. They simply asked us to leave the country before the war. Iran is using its money in Lebanon. Saudi Arabia also. The problem is bigger than having us buying the lands. Like I said, a big number of the lands don't need to be bought. They are us already. The problem is more political. In the Chouf, the situation is instable. Even though you have lands, the Druzes may commit a massacre against you and put you out. In the South, Hezbollah is very fanatic and arrogant. In Beirut, the Sunni killed PM Rafik Hairiri passed laws that led to the non appropriation of many Lebanese of homes in Beirut. They made West Beirut a sunni one. There are places for the Christians like Metn, Keserwan, East Beirut, the majority I guess of the North. The Bekaa was 80 % Christians, now it is 80% Chiites. Many Lebanese sold their lands but I do not consider that this was the real catastrophe on us. We were more pushed out by the huge powers in the world than simply given up. I don t want to justify but I am simply trying to advise me on what we can do. How we can gain the world sympathy and stop telling us nationalize your palestinians.
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listen my point is that there is no middle path for the Christians, you must fight the Arabs or give in to them and become Arabs (those of you who haven't been Arabized). Even if you somehow win back Lebanon you'd have to fight Syria and all the other Arabs. Thast's the cruel reality.
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בס''ד
Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.
Lebanon is part of Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel). Chazal (the Talmudic rabbinic authorities) have disagreements as to how far north the border should be, but there is no dispute that a major portion of Lebanon is part of the G-d-given Land of Israel.
The reason there is war and terror in the north is because G-d wants to force Israel to liberate more of the Jewish homeland. There will never be peace or security until Israel liberates what belongs to the Jewish people and encourages the local Arab population to permanently leave.
Lebanon is over 60% Muslim, and that figure is growing each year because of two key factors: one, a huge Muslim birthrate; and two, thousands of members of the Christian (mostly Maronite) minority are emigrating to Western countries each year.
Many Lebanese Christians have traditionally taken militantly anti-Israel and anti-American positions in a vain attempt to appease the Muslim world and to show the Muslims that they are loyal Arabs.
There are also Lebanese Christians who have become very wealthy dealing with the Muslim world, and so they are pro-Muslim and anti-Israel and anti-American for business purposes.
And there are Lebanese Christians who genuinely think of themselves as Arabs, identify themselves as Arabs, and as such defend the Arab world's campaign to destroy America and Israel.
But there are also Lebanese Christians who hate the Arabs and the Muslims. These pro-Western Christians would prefer Israeli rule over Syrian rule.
Lebanon is a small, very weak and divided nation of 4 million people. Lebanon is too weak, too divided and too small to survive in the brutal Middle East. Right now, Lebanon is occupied by Syria. The Syrian terrorist army has occupied Lebanon since 1976.
Either Lebanon will continue to be ruled by Syria and Iran (through the Iranian terrorist proxy, Hezballah), or Lebanon will be liberated by Israel and become part of the Jewish homeland.
If Israel does not liberate Lebanon, then that nation will continue to be a Syrian-Iranian puppet state that produces Islamic terrorism, hatred and mass murder.
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Lebanon will be liberated when Jesus comes.
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Lebanon will be liberated when Jesus comes.
no comment....but if you are referring in the world to come, lebanon will already have been liberated by Israel, Gd willing.
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I don't care what befalls the fakenstinians in Lebanon or anywhere. The same goes for any other quranimal beast living there. If and when the Jewish people liberates their ancestral lands in Lebanon then all quranimals will be forced to leave as well as any Christian who supports them.
Zelhar, the picture is an excellent example of the truth. So glad you posted that. ^5
Shalom - Dox
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get your terms correct. There is no "Palestine" or "Palestinian." Those Arabs are arabs..just like Jordanians are arabs and Iraqis are arabs and certain Egyptians are arabs.....All arabs belong in Saudi Arabia
ther are a particular bunch of arabs
There are "palestinians" if you include quotes in writing, or bend your fingers in conversation, and we know what we are talking about
they are not a nation in themselves, they are the arabs that were living in mandatory palestine .. some of which stayed . some fled ..
the "palestinians" that stayed in 1948 in the -jewish state- section or jewish state israel "won", got offered citizenship and got called "israeli arabs",
the ones that fled fled to lebanon, jordan,
and the ones that were in the gaza strip and "west bank", that got taken by egypt and jordan respectively in 1948, were still called "palestinians".
I guess the ones in the west bank are jordanian citizens..
http://www.globalyouthconnect.org/country_jordan.html
"In February 1960, Jordan offered citizenship to Palestinian refugees"
You can talkj about "palestinians" - not as a nation, but to refer to a certain group of people, or bunch of arabs.. A bunch of arabs that formed the PLO and were expelled from jordan into lebanon. A bunch of arabs - mostly muslims that together with lebanese muslims and syria, destroyed lebanon(which had a christian govt, majourity christian population and booming economy - these are all gone, I guess the christian govt is gone now)..
The word Arab is not very specific. Fact is.. Putting "palestinian" in quotes. The land was called "mandatory palestine", 2 "palestinian" states were meant to be created - one for jews, one for arabs. The arabs are no more "palestinian" than the jews are. Both immigrated..
this is why some "palestinian" sympathizers talk about offering a jewish state only to those jews that were there pre 1948. Large waves of Jewish immigration started from the 1880s The vast majourity of the arab population immigrated there once jews started and built the land. Britain limited jewish immigration with the -white paper- and allowed unlimited arab immigration.
golda meir once said "we are the palestinians". And ""There were no such thing as Palestinians.....".
Arabs whose origins are in "mandatory palestine", one might call them "palestinians", are no more indiginous than jews pre 1948 are.. . Jews or arabs of mandatory palestine as just as "palestinian" as each other. And jews post 1948 immigrated quite rightly, into Israel - the jewish state.
This bunch of arabs "palestinians", (not a nation, of course).. But we should know who we are referring to. They have - with the PLO - worked to destroy christian lebanon, and i'm sure there is evidence of how they have been oppressed in other arab countries.. So one can say. Don't tell israel to give "palestinians" rights.. you arabs or those you represent have done fat aworse to the "palestinians". It's worth looking into how "palestinian" refugees have been treated. .
I must say though. it seems their rights in Syria are pretty good
http://www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo017/
rihts of education, employment.. just not granted citizenship in order to "preserve their original nationality"
It was just israel that was dumb enough to follow lebanon and allow the PLO in. The arab countries who have had real problems from "palestinians" were the ones that had the PLO.. Jordan, Lebanon. Jordan actually made "palestinians" citizens..
It is worth looking at Lebanon and Jordan as examples of what palestinians can do, and how -as a minimum- to deal with them..
Jordan survived because it got rid of the PLO.. they massacred 10s of thousands in one month.
Lebanon is a smaller country than jordan, sure. But they kept the PLO and didn't massacre enough palestinans or PLO or expel them.. and look what happened to them.. It turned from the switzerland of the middle east, into a hell hole. I guess there would have been even more violence in lebanon if israel hadn't taken the PLO from them!
It's important to stress that there is no "palestinian" nation.
But if you refuse to use the term, you are making things more difficult for yourself to understand history.. because you lack words.. You are exiling yourself from any analysis of the subject.. You are even failing to argue with our opponents by simply not accepting the terms of the discussion.
So you are merely preaching to the choir. If you are to talk to people about it, then use the word. Say that the israeli-arabs are palestinains tand they were offered citizenship - to israel's detriment. You cna say that the jews of 1948 israel were just as much "palestinian" as them.. and jews since then have every right to immigrate to israel.
of course, we should understnad that they turned the israel-arab conflict into an israeli-palestinan conflict.. to make them david and israel goliath... and to assert their independence.. But sometimes we need words to refer to certain bunch of arabs.. and we can put it in quotes.. or say it in inverted commars.
If you keep blanking when the term is used(thinking egypt, syria, all arabs, same thing), you won't even be able to read a book describing 1948 or 1967. you have to recognise what is being referred to -specifically-.
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Thank you for the explanation:)
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Lebanese you may be not 'talking' to me but I 'hear' you anyway.
All of Lebanon up to the Litani is part of Israel and will one day be liberated. You are raising the fakenstinian problem as if it is the biggest problem of lebanon. In fact it is not, the problem is that lebanon is an evil muslim arab artifificial country.
Zelhar, look at her name ~~~> Lebanese. It speaks for itself. You see it too! ^5 to your perception.
Shalom - Dox
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Thank you for the explanation:)
if it were an explanation of the term palestinian.. I would have had to add
jews had an ancient enemy called the philistines, in hebrew, pelishtim...
that letter without a dot is pronounced F. What do the arabs call "palestinians"? falestinians? faleshtim?
the name of the land as palestine, was given by the roman emporer hadrian, after jews were exiled.. it was named after the enemy of G-d and the jewish people, an enemy named in the bible, the philistines.
some jews, and no doubt some arabs were there originally. But if they want to claim they are the original inhabitants, the "palestinians". Well, ALL jews are from that land!
sephardim they don't seem to have a problem with sephardim being of hebrew origin!
Ashkanzim , they all khazars. Maybe a small minority are.. But it has been shown by genetic testing, that ashkenazim have origins in the land of israel.
The jews are refugees.. one might say, "palestinian refugees"! Moreso than the so-called "palestinians" are. We Jews are still the same nation, we speak the same language, follow the same religion as we ded. There were no arabs there. The arabs were from saudi arabia only and spread out after islam.
the philistines/"palestinians" were not an arabic speaking people! Their language which isn't entirely semitic either! is extinct. (wikipedia on the philistine language may be of interest)
I was suprised, but you probably know this.. Many lebanese christians don't consider themselves arab.. Brigitte Gabriel mentioned this..
Having said where the name palestine/palestinian comes from.. (roman emporer hadrian that wanted to mock the jews and named hte land after an ancient enemy)..
rabbi kahane is showing how silly the name palestinian for these arab enemies is. He made the funny point.. that if the romans hadn't called it palestine, would we now be fighting the "judean terrorists"?
there are some young countries.. you could say young nations.. like the "state"(country!) of Israel.. But , if you want tl ook in terms of old nations.. - real nations. Then, As tamar yonah..said the arabs are right about one thing. There are israelis.. And there are no palestinians either(they've said the latter themselves by the way too!). It's a war between jews and arabs. As many have said, it goes back to the bible.. (arabs since islam claim descent from ishmael.. ! so they can have it that way! "yishmael is a wild man father of a wild people, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him".. as the bible says, amazingly accurate. Arabs can't then be canaanites though!)
Lebanese: Why do you call yourself lebanese?
Lebanon is a young country.. largely considered an arab country..
There is no lebanese people! Was it you that said here that Lebanese christians were there even before jesus? You still have the aramaic language.. which I guess you use for religious purposes? Why don't you call yourselves by a more ancient name?
Even if you say lebanese.. You should identifying with your original ancient people.. and really recognize that your land is occupied!
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Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.
This is a very important fact to consider when dealing with Arab propagandists, and should be hammered home at every available opportunity.
Just about every Arab nation is an artificial creation !
How often do we hear the argument that Israel is an artificial creation of Western colonialists ?
The truth is Israel is one of the very few legitimate nation/states in the region, with a proven history that dates back thousands of years.
Yet the Arab propaganda machine has somehow duped the world into believing that it is the ancient 'Palestinians' and multitude of faux Arab nations that are legitimate and that Israel is a recent phenomena of Jewish nationalism and Western imperialism.
Orwell is spinning in his grave !
Lebanon ? Artificial. (Interestingly, created by France as a haven for Christian Arabs who wished to flee Muslim oppression)
Iraq ? Artificial. (The only legitimate part of Iraq is Mesopotamia, which literally means 'between rivers', in this case the Tigris and Euphrates--The rest is an artificial creation)
Saudi Arabia ? Artificial.
United Arab Emirates ? Artificial.
Kuwait ? Artificial.
Dubai ? Artificial.
Jordan ? Artificial.
The list goes on and on. Almost without exception every single Arab rathole nation is an artificial creation dating back to the dissolution of the Turkish empire, post WWI.
The truth is, left to their own devices - the Arabs do not establish nations. Their societies are ruled by clans. The concept of a nation, of a people bound together under a common central government or a republic with defined borders, is foreign to the nomadic, clannish Arab mind.
To this day, even in the most cohesive Arab nations, segmented/stratified clan rule is the norm - and loyalty to the greater nation, a rare exception.
And these primitive Arabian savages have the audacity to deny Israel's legitimacy? It boggles the mind.
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Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.
This is a very important fact to consider when dealing with Arab propagandists, and should be hammered home at every available opportunity.
Just about every Arab nation is an artificial creation !
How often do we hear the argument that Israel is an artificial creation of Western colonialists ?
The truth is Israel is one of the very few legitimate nation/states in the region, with a proven history that dates back thousands of years. <snip>
good list, and interesting that saudi arabia is artificial..
thing is though.. pointing out that lebanon, iraq, jordan.. and many others, are just countries set up by western colonialists too..
it doesn't really answer their propaganda that jews stole their land.
You need to use the documentation brought by Joan Peters, in "from time immemorial". It shows that jews didn't come as colonialists. Besides some original jewish inhabitants. Jews immigrated as arabs did.
her book (which is dry and boring), apparently hasn't been refuted..
people have tried to. Arabs haven't managed to get anywhere with it.. But some self-hating jews have tried.. Apparently they criticise use of the turkish census she used, saying many non-jews didn't vote. But that's about it.
She has it that at the census pre 1948.. Looking at cis-jordan (the general area that became israel), there were 50k jews and 50k "arabs" christians and muslims - some more jews actually. And she shows documentation of the massive arab immigration..(hundreds of thousands I think) and british restricted jewish immigration to 70,000.
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Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox :) This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.
Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.
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Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox :) This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.
Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.
besides the technical point that jordanians are "palestinians" because jordan is/was a "palestinian state" - it was created in mandatory palestine.
are you saying that the majourity of jordan are "palestinian" refugees?
Meaning, the majourity of jordanians are those arabs that were offered citizenship in 1960, and their descendents.
(palestinians were offered citizenship in jordan in 1960. But the ones in the west bank are not really refugees..and in 1967 jordan lost the west bank)
are all "west bankers" jordanian citizens? Of course, the west bank isn't owned by jordan anymore.. so they don't affect the number of "palestinians" in jordan. I guess it's a jordanian "diaspora"!
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Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox :) This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.
Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.
besides the technical point that jordanians are "palestinians" because jordan is/was a "palestinian state" - it was created in mandatory palestine.
are you saying that the majourity of jordan are "palestinian" refugees?
Meaning, the majourity of jordanians are those arabs that were offered citizenship in 1960, and their descendents.
(palestinians were offered citizenship in jordan in 1960. But the ones in the west bank are not really refugees..and in 1967 jordan lost the west bank)
are all "west bankers" jordanian citizens? Of course, the west bank isn't owned by jordan anymore.. so they don't affect the number of "palestinians" in jordan. I guess it's a jordanian "diaspora"!
Most Jordanians citizens are "Palestinians" by definition (descendant of Arabs that lived west of the Jordan river during the British mandate). Between 1949-1967 all "west bankers" were Jordanian citizens. After 1967 they were able to freely enter and exit Jordan, both Israel and Jordan had allowed this, I think until 1987 when Jordan officially relinquished its claim for Judea and Samaria.
According to the not so reliable wikipedia:
Jordan has a law that states that any Palestinian may immigrate and obtain Jordanian citizenship, but must remit his/her Palestinian claim. Palestinians are not allowed to purchase land unless they give up their Palestinian citizenship.
It is true that Jordan is the only Arab state to allow citizenship to large numbers of fakenstinians. Of course it is because it has been from the beginning a fakenstinian state. King Abduallah had intended to name his British-given kingdom "Palesine" but the Brits refused and they forced the name 'Transjordan'. The name was changed to 'Jordan' in 1949 following the conquest and annexation of Judea and Samaria.
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Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..
Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
*sniff sniff*
I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?
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you're not referring to palestinian refugees then.. when you said the majourity of jordan is palestinian.
<snip>
Most Jordanians citizens are "Palestinians" by definition (descendant of Arabs that lived west of the Jordan river during the British mandate).
All obviously.
The ones East of the jordan river too because that was also part of the british mandate of palestine. So your "most" jordanian citizens are palestinians would apply to -all- jordanians!
And any palestinian refugees in jordan are of course palestinians too.
So what you say here is just what I said earlier.. you just narrow it for no good reason!
Though if your wikipedia quote is correct, they lose palestinian claim (can't say palestinian citizenship 'cos there isn't one!) when they get jordanian citizenship. A legal point but also a decision on their part.
It's interesting that in the UN definition, there's something along the lines of "palestinian" refugees and their descendents are "palestinian" "in perpetuity". I may able to find the exact quote.. It's completely unique to palestinians! completely ridiculous "bias" by the UN to perpetuate their refugee status beyond those of any other people, and to perpetuate Israel's "problem".
Between 1949-1967 all "west bankers" were Jordanian citizens.
It was named Jordan in 1950
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_country_Jordan_founded
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3464.htm
After 1967 they were able to freely enter and exit Jordan, both Israel and Jordan had allowed this, I think until 1987 when Jordan officially relinquished its claim for Judea and Samaria.
You say All, as in all palestinians in jordan, but according to your wikipedia quote it just says "palestinian". It means any palestinian anywhere, whether in lebanon or syria or iraq e.t.c. can emigrate to Jordan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
"Jordan has a law that states that any Palestinian may immigrate and obtain Jordanian citizenship, but must remit his/her Palestinian claim"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
"The fact that Jordan has peace with the surrounding countries, combined with its stability, has made it a preference for many Palestinians, Lebanese, and people from the Persian Gulf immigrants and refugees."
Of course, they don't make up jordan unless they are there!!!!!!
And west bankers are not in Jordan. And apparently most of them did not take jordanian citizenship. (see later in this post)
So when I said something like "Besides the fact that jordanians are palestinians because it came from mandatory palestine.. what do you mean when you say jordan is majourity palestinians". You just meant exactly what I had said really that jordanians are palestinian - you just put "majourity" in there for some reason.
The name was changed to 'Jordan' in 1949 following the conquest and annexation of Judea and Samaria.
1950
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3464.htm
"The mandate over Transjordan ended on May 22, 1946; on May 25, the country became the independent Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. .....
In 1950, the country was renamed the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to include those portions of Palestine annexed by King Abdullah I. While recognizing Jordanian administration over the West Bank, the United States maintained the position that ultimate sovereignty was subject to future agreement.
"
Interesting that they annexed it, but , didn't offer the "palestinians" there citizenship when they did..
Here is another source that says the offered it in the 1960s
http://www.islam-watch.org/Swadhin/Who-Will-Adopt-Palestine.htm
"In the 1960s, Jordan had offered Palestinians citizenship. Some took it, but most did not, preferring their refugee camps to Jordan"
No doubt they didn't, because, it meant giving up their "palestinian claim".
I had often heard the argument Israel wouldn't annex the west bank because they can't afford to give them citizenship. It seems that one has nothing to do with the other. I guess if they had annexed it, the arabs there could have gone anywhere in israel.. The key would have been to annex it in 1967 since apparently at that time the arabs had fled(expecting jews to treat them as they would treat jews).. and that idiot moshe dayan invited them back!
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Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..
Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
*sniff sniff*
I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?
In future address these concerns to the moderators.
If I had created a character then I wouldn't tell people, would I.
I notice you have a picture of Tzippi Livni. With the writing "I love chicks".. over it. So it's Tzippi Livni and Condi Rice. What AWEFUL taste in women you have. You may as well just come out of the closet!!
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The law in an Arab country is usually a just a set of dead letters. I don't believe Jordan would let every 'Palestinian' from anywhere to immigrate and grant him citizenship, I wish they did though. According to the definition there are two conditions to fulfill- live west of the river and during mandate time. This excludes the Arabs east of the rivers. The condition might also be narrowed further- only the British mandate after the illegal division and creation of Transjordan, I suppose the official definition follows somewhat that line, and disregarding the fact that the creation of Transjordan out of 70% of the mandate territory was entirely illegal.
From what I read the name had been changed to Jordan in 1949 and the official annexation was enacted in 1950.
I meant that the citizens of Jordan are majority 'Palestinian' (the majority among residents is even greater). Now if they really don't call themselves 'Palestinians' or whatever I couldn't care less. They are the same group of people and the rest of this group may join them and call itself whatever it likes.
It is interesting to observe how flexible these definitions are to the Arabs- The Bedouins in Israel insist that they are 'Palestinian', most of these people are the same as the 'pure' Jordanians who in Jordan insist they are not Palestinians. The rest of the Bedouins are from Egypt, Sudan, and the Magreb. There are also tens of thousands of illegal aliens from Jordan who intermarry and stay in Israel and become 'Palestinians'.
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Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..
Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
*sniff sniff*
I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?
Morning C.F. I would like to say that I do not trust any Christian Arabs, they are sympathetic to the Moslem Arabs. I question the conversion of Arab Moslems to Christianity, while they claim to be Christian, their loyalties seem to steer into the direction of the Moslems.
Moslems must never be trusted under any circumstances!
Shalom - Dox
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also, this should be the international community concern. France, US and the West never cared about the Christians of Lebanon after the war. US fought against us during the war. The money is used to help the Palestinians. Europe is more concerned with its relations with the Arab countries. USA never cared and I dunno what the US wants from us. They simply asked us to leave the country before the war. Iran is using its money in Lebanon. Saudi Arabia also. The problem is bigger than having us buying the lands. Like I said, a big number of the lands don't need to be bought. They are us already. The problem is more political. In the Chouf, the situation is instable. Even though you have lands, the Druzes may commit a massacre against you and put you out. In the South, Hezbollah is very fanatic and arrogant. In Beirut, the Sunni killed PM Rafik Hairiri passed laws that led to the non appropriation of many Lebanese of homes in Beirut. They made West Beirut a sunni one. There are places for the Christians like Metn, Keserwan, East Beirut, the majority I guess of the North. The Bekaa was 80 % Christians, now it is 80% Chiites. Many Lebanese sold their lands but I do not consider that this was the real catastrophe on us. We were more pushed out by the huge powers in the world than simply given up. I don t want to justify but I am simply trying to advise me on what we can do. How we can gain the world sympathy and stop telling us nationalize your palestinians.
This is the only thing that will stop the Nazi Moslems ~> :nuke:
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How 'Nakba' Proves There's No Palestinian Nation
By Steven Plaut
The Jewish Press | Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Over the past few years, the term nakba (also spelled naqba) has become the favorite nonsense word of the Anti-Israel Lobby. Meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic, it has been embraced by anti-Semites all over the planet to refer to Israel’s creation, which supposedly imposed a “catastrophe” upon the “disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs.”
Of course, the real catastrophe that befell the Arabs in 1948-49 was that they failed in their attempt to annihilate Israel and exterminate its population, and for that they paid a price.
Meanwhile, Nakba Nonsense has been spreading. Google finds over 85,000 web pages referring to Israel’s creation as a “nakba,” and a Yahoo search finds even more than that. The anti-Israel web magazine Counterpunch cannot mention Israel without using the term. Even Israel’s leftist minister of education, Yuli Tamir, has orderedthat the nakba be taught as partof the curriculum in Israeli schools, where Israel’s schoolchildren can be taught to mourn their own country’s existence.
(Tamir, who was previously a professor of education at Tel Aviv University, is so bizarre that in the summer of 1996 she published an article in the Boston Review defending female circumcision in the Third World and denouncing those who expressed disgust at the practice – see http://bostonreview.net/BR21.3/Tamir.html.)
Nakba ceremonies are now held each year by leftist professors at Israeli universities who mourn the very creation and existence of their country.
The nakba of the late 1940’s and 1950’s that befell large numbers of Jews living in Arab countries who were suddenly expelled, persecuted, and stripped of their property does not interest such people. Those Jewish refugees made new homes in Israel and actually outnumbered the Palestinians who fled.
Meanwhile, an urban legend has been fabricated about the origin of the term “nakba” – a fairy tale that claims the word was a banner waved by Palestinians starting in 1948, and that its very use shows how deep the roots of “Palestinian nationality” go.
So here is a little current events quiz: What is the real origin of the term “nakba” and what is its original meaning?
If you get the answer to the quiz wrong – in other words, if you say it refers to the events of 1948 – you are in very good company. I myself would have flunked the quiz up until a few days ago, when I stumbled on the correct answer. Not only does the bandying about of the “nakba” nonsense word not point to any “depths of roots of Palestinian nationality,” it proves the very opposite: namely, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation or nationality at all.
The authoritative source on the origin of “nakba” is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first “official historian of Palestinian nationalism.” Like so many “Palestinians,” he actually wasn’t – Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities.
Antonius was an “official Palestinian representative” to Britain, trying to argue the cause for creating an Arab state in place of any prospective homeland promised the Jews under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. By the 1930’s Antonius was an active anti-Zionist propagandist, and as such was offered a job at Columbia University (where some things don’t seem to change much).
He served as an academic fig leaf for xenophobic Arab nationalists seeking to deny Jews any right to self-determination in or migration to the Land of Israel. And he was closely associated with the Grand Mufti, Hitler’s main Islamic ally, and also with the pro-German regime in Iraq in the early 1940’s.
Antonius was so passionately anti-Zionist that he continues to serve as the hero and mentor of Jewish leftist anti-Zionists everywhere. For example, the late Hebrew University sociology professor Baruch Kimmerling relied on Antonius at length in his own pseudo-history, Palestinians: The Making of a People (Free Press, 1993).
So how does Antonius provide us with the answer to the current-events quiz concerning the origin of “nakba”? The term was not invented in 1948 but rather in 1920. And it was coined not because of Palestinians suddenly getting nationalistic but because Arabs living in Palestine regarded themselves as Syrian and were enraged at being cut off from their Syrian homeland.
Before World War I, the entire Levant – including what is now Israel, the “occupied territories,” Jordan, Lebanon and Syria – was comprised of Ottoman Turkish colonies. When Allied forces drove the Turks out of the Levant, the two main powers, Britain and France, divided the spoils between them. Britain got Palestine, including what is now Jordan, while France got Lebanon and Syria.
The problem was that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians and were seen as such by other Syrians. The Palestinian Arabs were enraged that an artificial barrier was being erected within their Syrian homeland by the infidel colonial powers – one that would divide northern Syrian Arabs from southern Syrian Arabs, the latter being those who were later misnamed “Palestinians.”
The bulk of the Palestinian Arabs had in fact migrated to Palestine from Syria and Lebanon during the previous two generations, largely to benefit from the improving conditions and job opportunities afforded by Zionist immigration and capital flowing into the area. In 1920, both sets of Syrian Arabs, those in Syria and those in Palestine, rioted violently and murderously.
On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.”
Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That’s 1920 – when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no “settlements” in “occupied territories,” no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850).
The original “nakba” had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba – at this catastrophe– because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians.
In the 1920’s, the very suggestion that Palestinian Arabs constituted a separate ethnic nationality was enough to send those same Arabs out into the streets to murder and plunder violently in outrage. If they themselves insisted they were simply Syrians who had migrated to the Land of Israel, by what logic are the Palestinian Arabs deemed entitled to their own state today?
Palestinian Arabs are no more a nation and no more entitled to their own state than are the Arabs of Detroit or of Paris. They certainly are not entitled to four different states: Jordan, Hamastan in Gaza, a PLO state in the West Bank, and Israel converted into yet another Arab state via the granting of a “right of return” to Arab refugees.
Speaking of Palestinians as Syrians, it is worth noting what one of the early Syrian nationalists had to say. The following quote comes from the great-grandfather of the current Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad:
“Those good Jews brought civilization and peace to the Arab Muslims, and they dispersed gold and prosperity over Palestine without damage to anyone or taking anything by force. Despite this, the Muslims declared holy war against them and did not hesitate to massacre their children and women…. Thus a black fate awaits the Jews and other minorities in case the Mandates are cancelled and Muslim Syria is united with Muslim Palestine.”
That statement is from a letter sent to the French prime minister in June 1936 by six Syrian Alawi notables (the Alawis are the ruling class in Syria today) in support of Zionism. Bashar’s great-grandfather was one of them.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=88B96F89-450D-4156-9B83-3BEBB1FA9BDD
So modern Philistinians are in fact muslim Syrians and granpa of current Iranian head pupet of Syria was in fact a Zionist. ;D