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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pennyjangle on December 22, 2009, 09:34:06 AM
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(http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/images/antisem.jpg)
It has been said that the history of almost all of the Jewish holidays can be summed up succinctly: "They wanted to kill us; we won. Let's eat." Why has anti-Semitism been so pervasive in so many countries, in so many time periods and for so many reasons? (One begins to wonder. Perhaps there is something wrong with the Jews and Judaism? After all, there is an old Yiddish saying -- "If one person calls you a donkey, ignore him; if two people call you a donkey, buy a saddle.")
Between the years 250 CE and 1948 CE - a period of 1,700 years - Jews have experienced more than eighty expulsions from various countries in Europe - an average of nearly one expulsion every twenty-one years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and seventy-one other countries.
Historians have classified six explanations as to why people hate the Jews:
1. Economic -- "We hate Jews because they possess too much wealth and power."
2. Chosen People -- "We hate Jews because they arrogantly claim that they are the chosen people."
3. Scapegoat -- "Jews are a convenient group to single out and blame for our troubles."
4. Deicide -- "We hate Jews because they killed Jesus."
5. Outsiders, -- "We hate Jews because they are different than us." (The dislike of the unlike.)
6. Racial Theory -- "We hate Jews because they are an inferior race."
As we examine the explanations, we must ask -- Are they the causes for anti-Semitism or excuses for Anti-Semitism? The difference? If one takes away the cause, then anti-Semitism should no longer exist. If one can show a contradiction to the explanation, it demonstrates that the "cause" is not a reason, it is just an excuse. Let's look at some contradictions:
1. Economic -- The Jews of 17th- 20th century Poland and Russia were dirt poor, had no influence and yet they were hated.
2. Chosen People -- a) In the late 19th century, the Jews of Germany denied "Choseness." And then they worked on assimilation. Yet, the holocaust started there. b) Christians and Moslems profess to being the "Chosen people," yet, the world and the anti-Semites tolerate them.
3. Scapegoat -- Any group must already be hated to be an effective scapegoat. The Scapegoat Theory does not then cause anti-Semitism. Rather, anti-Semitism is what makes the Jews a convenient scapegoat target. Hitler's ranting and ravings would not be taken seriously if he said, "It's the bicycle riders and the midgets who are destroying our society."
4. Deicide -- a) the Christian Bible says the Romans killed Jesus, though Jews are mentioned as accomplices (claims that Jews killed Jesus came several hundred years later). How come the accomplices are persecuted and there isn't an anti-Roman movement through history? b) Jesus himself said, "Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do." The Second Vatican Council in 1963 officially exonerated the Jews as the killers of Jesus. Neither statement of Christian belief lessened anti-Semitism.
5. Outsiders -- With the Enlightenment in the late 18th century, many Jews rushed to assimilate. Anti-Semitism should have stopped. Instead, for example, with the Nazis came the cry, in essence: "We hate you, not because you're different, but because you're trying to become like us! We cannot allow you to infect the Aryan race with your inferior genes."
6. Racial Theory -- The overriding problem with this theory is that it is self-contradictory: Jews are not a race. Anyone can become a Jew - and members of every race, creed and color in the world have done so at one time or another.
Every other hated group is hated for a relatively defined reason. We Jews, however, are hated in paradoxes: Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race - but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world. We are hated for stubbornly maintaining our separateness - and, when we do assimilate - for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages. We are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a Chosen-People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex. It seems that we just can't win.
Now we know what are NOT the reasons for anti-Semitism.
FIND OUT WHY PEOPLE HATE THE JEWS:
The Reason for Anti-Semitism (article) http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/reason-for-anti-semitism.htm
The Reason for Anti-Semtism (online seminar) http://international.aish.com/seminars/whythejews/
by: Rabbi Kalman Packouz
MORE:
The History of Jewish Persecution
The Anti-Semitic Disease
Why Do People Hate The Jews? by Ken Spiro from AishAudio.com
Hitler Quotes
Antisemitism.org.il
QUOTES:
“Of all the extreme fanaticism which plays havoc in man’s nature, there is not one as irrational as anti-Semitism. … If the Jews are rich [these fanatics] are victims of theft. If they are poor, they are victims of ridicule. If they take sides in a war, it is because they wish to take advantage from the spilling of non-Jewish blood. If they espouse peace, it is because they are scared by their natures or traitors. If the Jew dwells in a foreign land he is persecuted and expelled. If he wishes to return to his own land, he is prevented from doing so.”
- Lloyd George stated in 1923
"The uniqueness of anti-Semitism lies in the fact that no other people in the world have ever been charged simultaneously with alienation from society and with cosmopolitanism, with being capitalistic exploiters and also revolutionary communist advocators. The Jews were accused of having an imperious mentality, at the same time they're a people of the book. They're accused of being militant aggressors, at the same time as being cowardly pacifists. With being a Chosen people, and also having an inferior human nature. With both arrogance and timidity. With both extreme individualism and community adherence. With being guilty of the crucifixion of Jesus and at the same time held to account for the invention of christianity."
- A speech about the irrationality of anti-Semitism
by professor Michael Curtis, of Rutgers University, 1987
Link: http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/WhyDoPeopleHateTheJews/
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בס"ד
There's no justified reason to hate the Jews. People hate Jews because of jealousy, not only economical one.
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Because they hate G-d.
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For an excellent Torah perspective on the 'reasons' for antisemitism read the book:
http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=978-1-59826-205-6&type=store&category=search
Anti-Jewish Phenomenon
By Rabbi Benzion Allswang, Ph.D.
List price: $25.99
You pay only: $20.79 a 20.00% savings!
ITEM #: 4768
ISBN: 978-1-59826-205-6
Binding: Hard Cover / 305 pages
Published by Feldheim
(http://www.feldheim.com/mas_assets/475x475/4768.jpg)
Throughout history, philosophers have struggled with the existence of Judaism in a world that has tried so desperately to uproot it. While Jews have undisputedly benefited non-Jewish nations in areas such as the arts, sciences, commerce and politics, they have remained the target of great dislike for many world leaders.
In The Anti-Jewish Phenomenon, Rabbi Benzion Allswang, Ph.D., presents an insightful historical Torah analysis that examines ancient and contemporary anti-Jewish hostility. This book is for anyone who has ever pondered the historical significance of hatred toward the Jewish nation.
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Yes, because they hate G-d.
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certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
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Because they hate G-d.
I agree, because God is love. ;D
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I think it's more they don't fear the Jews
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Christians claim to be choosen, this is true. But this means individually choosen to faith.
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certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
With all respect: This is nonsense!
I have read the bible and the antisemites tried to finish the choosen offspring of Abraham through the times.
The Syrians, the Amelikites, the Philistinians, the Moabits, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, some Persians Haman and his gofers, the Egyptians, the Hellenists, the Romans and so on.
Later there were Nazi Pagans, Bolschewists and Muslims who continued. Also there was the orthodox and catholic Church as well as the Lutherians.
Christianity is NOT the source of anti-semitism and those Christians who went after the Jews were even in their time not the only ones.
My oppinion of this issue is, that it is the nature of this world that is responsible for this. Have you ever heard of a cured anti-semite? Of cause there is a cure, but only a few will find it. It is faith in God and his Bible.
I like you Hindu Zionist so no offense. :)
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certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
Uncalled for!
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coming from a christian /catholic country I think it's mostly because of reason 1 thus controlling other nations with their money loaning to goverments at high interest etc. Such as believing Marx and Trotsky created communism to kill the white race...remember millions of christians died during ww2 also. Don't think the others are such a big factor. Obviously if this was true a lot of innocent jews died who did not possess any wealth only becuase they could not get at the wealthy jews who had the money and believing that jews always stuck to each other and had the philosphy of taking over lands with their money/loans with interest and such people like hitler believed the only way was to eliminate all plus it was retribution for clashing russians and europeans to kill each other.
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Obviously if this was true a lot of innocent jews died who did not possess any wealth only becuase they could not get at the wealthy jews who had the money and believing that jews always stuck to each other and had the philosphy of taking over lands with their money/loans with interest and such people like hitler believed the only way was to eliminate all plus it was retribution for clashing russians and europeans to kill each other.
[/b]
???????
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coming from a christian /catholic country I think it's mostly because of reason 1 thus controlling other nations with their money loaning to goverments at high interest etc. Such as believing Marx and Trotsky created communism to kill the white race...remember millions of christians died during ww2 also. Don't think the others are such a big factor. Obviously if this was true a lot of innocent jews died who did not possess any wealth only becuase they could not get at the wealthy jews who had the money and believing that jews always stuck to each other and had the philosphy of taking over lands with their money/loans with interest and such people like hitler believed the only way was to eliminate all plus it was retribution for clashing russians and europeans to kill each other.
Can you rephrase this please?
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very true...
certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
With all respect: This is nonsense!
I have read the bible and the antisemites tried to finish the choosen offspring of Abraham through the times.
The Syrians, the Amelikites, the Philistinians, the Moabits, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, some Persians Haman and his gofers, the Egyptians, the Hellenists, the Romans and so on.
Later there were Nazi Pagans, Bolschewists and Muslims who continued. Also there was the orthodox and catholic Church as well as the Lutherians.
Christianity is NOT the source of anti-semitism and those Christians who went after the Jews were even in their time not the only ones.
My oppinion of this issue is, that it is the nature of this world that is responsible for this. Have you ever heard of a cured anti-semite? Of cause there is a cure, but only a few will find it. It is faith in G-d and his Bible.
I like you Hindu Zionist so no offense. :)
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coming from a christian /catholic country I think it's mostly because of reason 1 thus controlling other nations with their money loaning to goverments at high interest etc. Such as believing Marx and Trotsky created communism to kill the white race...remember millions of christians died during ww2 also. Don't think the others are such a big factor. Obviously if this was true a lot of innocent jews died who did not possess any wealth only becuase they could not get at the wealthy jews who had the money and believing that jews always stuck to each other and had the philosphy of taking over lands with their money/loans with interest and such people like hitler believed the only way was to eliminate all plus it was retribution for clashing russians and europeans to kill each other.
Believe me through the history of Europe - We needed no Jews to incite us to kill each-other. We done it on our own. Sad but true.
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coming from a christian /catholic country I think it's mostly because of reason 1 thus controlling other nations with their money loaning to goverments at high interest etc. Such as believing Marx and Trotsky created communism to kill the white race...remember millions of christians died during ww2 also. Don't think the others are such a big factor. Obviously if this was true a lot of innocent jews died who did not possess any wealth only becuase they could not get at the wealthy jews who had the money and believing that jews always stuck to each other and had the philosphy of taking over lands with their money/loans with interest and such people like hitler believed the only way was to eliminate all plus it was retribution for clashing russians and europeans to kill each other.
Believe me through the history of Europe - We needed no Jews to incite us to kill each-other. We done it on our own. Sad but true.
I agree yes ..probably they were a scapegoat becuase they were alienated and looked upon as something different..
let me rephrase
There is a strong believe that the communism ideology and the russian revolution was conceived by jews such as Trotsky and Marx. Thus they blame the jews for the rise of communism and all the massacre it involved. I'm not trying to offend or anything, just trying to shed some light from most of their arguments, they feel threatened that rich elite jews are taking over goverments by loaning to them at high interest and this has been happening for hundreds of years that nowadays they have countries like usa and uk in their hands.
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I think like Ulli, that this hatred predates Christianity and in fact it seems to be as ancient as the Jews.
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So Futuramark, do you personally believe that wealthy Jews have countries like the UK and the USA in their hands?
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This seems like a very divisive thread.
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Lisa
I don't know anything about it. Just mentioning a few of the anti-semite reasons. I saw some documentaries about people loaning to goverments since the 1500s but their was never any mention they were actually jews..people like Rockefeller, Bilderbergs etc. Then there are also all those secret societies such as masonry, illuminati, council of foreign relations , trilateral commision etc.
I do believe these people exist but I never found any evidence which states it is all a jewish conspiracy...some are christians some are atheists. Some are benevolent , others are greedy and really want to take over the world. Also another excuse cited by Hitler was that 4 of the 5 lawyes that signed the versailles treaty were jewish thus he felt they were trying to exterminate them with heavy compensations and land grabbing. That is why he states the 'stabbed in the back' theory.
I personally think money controls all goverments but these people come from every race/religion.
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This seems like a very divisive thread.
Yes. In fact I won't take part in such sensitive issues anymore. 'Why people hate jews' was interpreted as 'why I hate jews' even though I don't hate jews and have absolutely no reason to do so.
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My Savior is a Jew. :dance: There are people I don't like for one reason or another but if God told me to bless them I would out of obedience to Him.
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My Savior is a Jew. :dance: There are people I don't like for one reason or another but if G-d told me to bless them I would out of obedience to Him.
And my saviour is the G-d of Israel, Blessed is his name!
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בס"ד
My Savior is a Jew. :dance: There are people I don't like for one reason or another but if G-d told me to bless them I would out of obedience to Him.
And my saviour is the G-d of Israel, Blessed is his name!
Right on Muman!
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בס"ד
My Savior is a Jew. :dance: There are people I don't like for one reason or another but if G-d told me to bless them I would out of obedience to Him.
And my saviour is the G-d of Israel, Blessed is his name!
Right on Muman!
Amen, Our G-d reigns from Zion. He is the Great G-d of Israel.
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I don't necessarily think this thread was a bad idea but one person's posts in it are very suspicious.
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בס"ד
The reason is obvious - us being the Chosen people, with all what it means. I wouldn't respond to what you've said about Christianity, Ulli, because of my agreement.
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I don't necessarily think this thread was a bad idea but one person's posts in it are very suspicious.
Mine? if you really think I'm anti semitic or hate jews fine you can ban me then. I only gave my opinion about anti semites. i dont hate jews, they never harmed me , or my country why should I hate them...in my countries history muslims tried to exterminate us, jews never harmed us. But still believe what you want and ban my account do whatever you think is right.
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I don't necessarily think this thread was a bad idea but one person's posts in it are very suspicious.
No it's mine, it's ok I'm use to it.
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I don't necessarily think this thread was a bad idea but one person's posts in it are very suspicious.
Mine? if you really think I'm anti semitic or hate jews fine you can ban me then. I only gave my opinion about anti semites. i dont hate jews, they never harmed me , or my country why should I hate them...in my countries history muslims tried to exterminate us, jews never harmed us. But still believe what you want and ban my account do whatever you think is right.
Futura, are you of the male specimen?
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certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
Uncalled for!
isnt it a historically accepted world view that anti-semitism started 2000 years ago? I only provided little detail in my post, and tried to be as politically correct as possible. To read too much into it, is upto you.
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AsheDina yes I'm male
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AsheDina yes I'm male
Well, come on dude- be a man. We are in a WAR against SERIOUS people that are leftist Marxists and Islam wants to kill us, and Obla bla wants to divide Jerusalem, and America will fall, and EU is being taken over by radical jihadis out of control, so COME ON.
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AsheDina yes I'm male
Well, come on dude- be a man. We are in a WAR against SERIOUS people that are leftist Marxists and Islam wants to kill us, and Obla bla wants to divide Jerusalem, and America will fall, and EU is being taken over by radical jihadis out of control, so COME ON.
I know that. Islam in my opinion is the most dangerous thing that could happen to Europe and elsewhere. I also hate leftists liberals that are flooding my country and the rest of europe with muslims and africans. that is my main goal. To stop muslims from taking europe and lefties promoting mutliculturalism as an excuse. I have nothing against Israel in fact I fully support them in keeping their land and hate jihadist murderers to death. Those are my main enemies ..islamification of europe and these leftists idiots.
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certain ideologies started to proselytize a plagerised version of torah 2000 years ago.. thats when hate towards jews started.
Uncalled for!
isnt it a historically accepted world view that anti-semitism started 2000 years ago? I only provided little detail in my post, and tried to be as politically correct as possible. To read too much into it, is upto you.
No there were Jew haters even before that, for example Antiochus IV Epiphanes who is the ruler whom the maccabees rebelled against. There were also ancient Greek and Roman scholars who hated Jews. For example the 1st century Greek (or helenized Egyptian) writer Apion had incited the Romans against the Jews and wrote a blood libel against the Jews, accusing them of sacrificing and cannibalizing Greeks.
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We also have Haman but he was descendant of amalakites
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Because they envy their success.
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Because they envy their success.
Yes, this is a major reason, but it makes not so much sense in the light of self interest.
The logical reaction if you see someone who is more successfull than you is to analyze why it is and then a sane man will chance or adjust his methodes.
To be envy is no art :::D In fact it is stupid. You win not more parnassa if you wish your fellow more successfull citizen bad.
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In the U.S. everyone is envious of each other they called it keeping up with the Jones
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בס"ד
Because they envy their success.
Yes, this is a major reason, but it makes not so much sense in the light of self interest.
The logical reaction if you see someone who is more successfull than you is to analyze why it is and then a sane man will chance or adjust his methodes.
To be envy is no art :::D In fact it is stupid. You win not more parnassa if you wish your fellow more successfull citizen bad.
I don't want to get into a epistemological/philosophical debate here, but it's not always true. It's true that the side you view jealousy as stupid, but that's natural and sometimes understable. If someone's looking hungry at your wife what would you do/feel?
The last sentence is not always true either. That's how comptetition usually works.
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בס"ד
Because they envy their success.
Yes, this is a major reason, but it makes not so much sense in the light of self interest.
The logical reaction if you see someone who is more successfull than you is to analyze why it is and then a sane man will chance or adjust his methodes.
To be envy is no art :::D In fact it is stupid. You win not more parnassa if you wish your fellow more successfull citizen bad.
I don't want to get into a epistemological/philosophical debate here, but it's not always true. It's true that the side you view jealousy as stupid, but that's natural and sometimes understable. If someone's looking hungry at your wife what would you do/feel?
The last sentence is not always true either. That's how comptetition usually works.
I think I would be upset about the lack of good manners and education if someone is looking hungry at my wife. But I would not be envy towards him, I would be angry towards him.
I have learned, that in business even in competitive situation you should act rational. Because today you are compititors and tomorrow you are doing things together in order to make more money. I.e. you put your money together with another person in order to buy things in greater amount and so cheaper the single piece. I think business is basically not emotion but numbers.
And even if I loose because of competition I have to change things. If I sit in the bar and curse my competitors (Jewish or not), I make things not better and find no solution to my problems.
So I think envy is a part of human nature, but irrational and we should controll it.
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בס"ד
I think I would be upset about the lack of good manners and education if someone is looking hungry at my wife. But I would not be envy towards him, I would be angry towards him.
Would you be angry with him if he was looking at another girl? (one of who you're even attracted to)
I have learned, that in business even in competitive situation you should act rational. Because today you are compititors and tomorrow you are doing things together in order to make more money. I.e. you put your money together with another person in order to buy things in greater amount and so cheaper the single piece. I think business is basically not emotion but numbers.
The thing is the definition of rationality. I think jealousy just like other emotions is a pre-warning, a sign of something, just like any other pain. Jealousy for your wife is one step of inter-realizing that this man endangers some factors that you've been satisfied about before he looked at your wife.
In a competition, you should act rational, that's true, but keeping jealousy out is not good. Thinking envolves emotions and thinking without them is impossible and outrageous. Once you compete with someone you're able to hurt his business or the progress of his business. Once he beats you (if he does so), you'd get jealous and try to get ever further than he did (if you're competetors). That's a sign of ealousy. I think business, like any other area, involves feelings and emotions and that these things are not seperateable from our very process of thinking.
And even if I loose because of competition I have to change things. If I sit in the bar and curse my competitors (Jewish or not), I make things not better and find no solution to my problems.
When you show him your lose you'd probably lose even more. If he's a friend (though competetor) of yours, that'd be fine to continue compete him or just get out of the race. I agree that cursing wouldn't help you get your business's status better though I don't think that "surrendering" would do anything positive.
So I think envy is a part of human nature, but irrational and we should controll it.
Impossible. It's ok to try and control emotions but it's not cool to underestimate them, ignore them, reject them and call them "stupid".