JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MassuhDGoodName on May 30, 2010, 11:20:03 PM
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Good news!
It's being reported that Israeli gunboats attacked the flotilla, and there are casualties along with wounded!
It's about time!
:dance: :) :dance: :) :dance: :) :dance: :) :dance: :) :dance: :) :dance: :)
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I hope that they dont have to kill them all...
The damn 'humanitarian' people need to learn a lesson though..
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/30/reports-israeli-ships-attack-aid-flotilla-dead/?test=latestnews
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I hope that they dont have to kill them all...
We need to bomb them from the air and make sure nobody escaped.
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137780
IDF Surprised Flotilla at Night and Arrested Passengers
Sivan 18, 5770, 31 May 10 12:19
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
(Israelnationalnews.com) Late Sunday night, the Israeli Navy surprised the flotilla bound for Hamas-controlled Gaza in international waters and hundreds of IDF soldiers who came by air and sea boarded the ships and announced to all passengers that they are under arrest..
One of the crew said that one “Navy warship” had contacted the six boats in the flotilla and asked them to identify themselves. They were told the Navy would board the boats if the ships's crew and passengers do not agree to head for the Ashdod port instead of the Gaza Coast, where Israel maintains sovereignty under the Oslo Accords and does not allow ships to approach without searching them for arms.
International law allows for countries to ask suspicious boats to identify themselves. The vessels' passengers did not cooperate and called the move "scare tactics" on their streamed broadcasts.
The IDF searched the boats for arms immediately after the takeover. The soldiers were forced to use tear gas after they were attacked with knives, daggers and cudgels, putting their lives in danger. Unofficial reports that ten persons have been killed and another ten wounded were admitted to Rambam Hospital in Haifa were changed by the Arab television station Al Jazeera, to two killed and four wounded. An Al Jazeera reporter on one of the boats reported hearing gunshots.
The IDF has not issued a report on casualties or wounded in the operation. However, hospitals were put on alert to accept possible wounded.
The IDF released a terse statement shortly after midnight Sunday, stating, "Israeli Navy soldiers left this evening in order to stop the flotilla's provocative trip to Gaza. During the last few days, the soldiers have been conducting drills to ensure the mission's success."
Turkey's government called an emergency meeting to discuss the IDF action. Defense Minister Barak is holding ongoing meetings with his advisors.
The flotilla activists, some of whom are identified with terrorist Muslim groups, did not expect a confrontation with the Navy until Monday morning, when the flotilla expected to near the Gaza coast.
The flotilla sailed on Sunday, more than two days later than planned and without two of the ships that did not join because of malfunctions but which were expected to set sail after repairs.
“We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation of threats of violence against us,” said activist Huwaida Araf from the ships. “They are going to have to forcefully stop us.”
Israel was determined not to allow the boats to reach Gaza and set a precedent that would break Israeli sovereignty over the waters in order to prevent terrorists and arms from being smuggled from the Mediterranean Sea as they are from Egypt.
The flotilla included three ships of passengers and three cargo ships with aid. The Israeli military and Foreign Ministry accused the activists of being more interested in trying to stage an anti-Israel stunt and strengthen Hamas rather than trying to help Gaza Arabs. Government spokesmen pointed out repeatedly that aid always can be shipped to Gaza through the Ashdod port, and that the alleged “humanitarian crisis” is a ruse because Israel oversees daily shipments of hundreds of tons of food, merchandise and supplies.
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I hope that they dont have to kill them all...
We need to bomb them from the air and make sure nobody escaped.
That would be the best case scenario, but if they truly regret what they are doing some may fear Israel and never attempt this again. I don't really want big body counts, just enough to accomplish the job... If you know what I mean?
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I hope that they dont have to kill them all...
We need to bomb them from the air and make sure nobody escaped.
That would be the best case scenario, but if they truly regret what they are doing some may fear Israel and never attempt this again. I don't really want big body counts, just enough to accomplish the job... If you know what I mean?
No, everyone who participated in this action of war against Israel should be killed, there would be enough time for them to regret that in Hell. If we
let them live, we're no different from the Muslims. How could we let them just get away with it? Where's your self-respect?
We shall have no mercy upon the cruel. They should be treated like every enemy battleship.
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Normally I would agree with you, but there are people who were fooled into believing it was really a 'humanitarian' effort. I don't know any, that goodness, but it seemed that the public media protrayed this as a attempt to help the poor 'Fakestinians', but as we all know there is no humanitarian crisis.. But some people in Europe are brainwashed by the BBC media, which only portrays the arabs as the victims...
I really don't care about world opinion, but Israel should attempt to stop this illegal arms shipment with only enough casualties to stop the enemy from trying again...
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Normally I would agree with you, but there are people who were fooled into believing it was really a 'humanitarian' effort. I don't know any, that goodness, but it seemed that the public media protrayed this as a attempt to help the poor 'Fakestinians', but as we all know there is no humanitarian crisis.. But some people in Europe are brainwashed by the BBC media, which only portrays the arabs as the victims...
I really don't care about world opinion, but Israel should attempt to stop this illegal arms shipment with only enough casualties to stop the enemy from trying again...
Who cares if they're brainwashed or not (and no, they're not, there are well-known Hamas members there, and weaponry), they CO-OPERATE with the enemy, they're on the enemy's battleship, why should we have mercy on them?
They should die for being on that ship, I don't care what they thought about it (and they weren't innocent, it's just like saying the Europeans who go to train with Hezbollah are brainwashed), the fact that they're on the enemy's side is enough reason to Holocaust them.
One thing for sure - once you search the innocent among the enemy, the enemy will have no respect nor any fear from you because he will use this weakness and mercy you have for those who shouldn't have it.
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בס''ד
Every one of them should be killed immediately. Their goal is genocide against the Jewish people.
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What you say is absolutely un-Jewish and anti-Jewish. If G-D thought the same as you do, he wouldn't punish Egyptians who did nothing to Jews, prisoners, housewives, and others who didn't know how Jews look like. If G-D thought the same as you do, he wouldn't eliminate the entire Amalekite people, even though I'm sure there were "moderate" Amalekites who had nothing against Jews.
With this kind of thinking, we're doomed.
אל תהי צדיק הרבה יותר מבוראך
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137780
It looks like some Israelis were wounded in the process. That makes it more necessary for there to be some casualties on the terrorist side.
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What you say is absolutely un-Jewish and anti-Jewish. If G-D thought the same as you do, he wouldn't punish Egyptians who did nothing to Jews, prisoners, housewives, and others who didn't know how Jews look like. If G-D thought the same as you do, he wouldn't eliminate the entire Amalekite people, even though I'm sure there were "moderate" Amalekites who had nothing against Jews.
With this kind of thinking, we're doomed.
אל תהי צדיק הרבה יותר מבוראך
I have said many times it is important to stop this thing one way or another. Sure we are to kill Amalek and all those who threaten us. I am sure that this will happen.
And sure I hope that all those who were knowingly bringing weapons and material to be used against Israel are going to be quickly killed. There is no point in keeping them in prisons where they will be released by the weak government.
My only point, and one which I doubt you will understand, and it is not in the least bit un-Jewish or anti-Jewish as you put it... That we should always consider the innocents who are killed in destruction. I believe this is one of the lessons we learn from Abraham avinu when he argued with Hashem against destroying Sdom.
I do not in any way give support to those who are attempting to violate Israels sovereign waters. These people are criminals and should be dealt with as criminals.
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I just noticed that different news agencies are reporting the # of casualties differently...
One says 16 dead, the other says only 2 dead.... I hope that its 16...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/31/2914131.htm?section=world
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=176961
Here it says 10 killed : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/31/israeli-army-says-activists-killed-commando-operation-gaza-flotilla/
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I have said many times it is important to stop this thing one way or another. Sure we are to kill Amalek and all those who threaten us. I am sure that this will happen.
Then why do you want them alive? ???
My only point, and one which I doubt you will understand, and it is not in the least bit un-Jewish or anti-Jewish as you put it... That we should always consider the innocents who are killed in destruction. I believe this is one of the lessons we learn from Abraham avinu when he argued with Hashem against destroying Sdom.
1.) G-D asked Avraham to rescue Lot, therefore, he knew about the existence of a Tzaddik and did not risk it by "guessing".
2.) From what I remember, no Sdomite tried to murder Avraham and his family, in one way or another, and were not the mortal enemy of his like the Muslims and their useful tools are to us.
Your comparison is baseless. The story of Sdom is not the same as the story of Assyria, Babylon, Egypt, Rome, Ancient Greece, and many other mortal enemies of the Jews that were wiped off the stage of history.
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Do you know for a fact that there is not an innocent person on board, maybe someone who could be righteous except for the fact that they were mislead? I do not know for a fact, and this is all which concerns me...
Do not try to say that I think that the wicked should be spared... No, and you will recall 2 days ago I called for the entire flotilla to be blown out of the water. That was a sincere request, yet I also have had time to consider that there may be some who are innocent..
Do not think I am saying that Israel should not use all force against these enemies, and if the report I just read is true it seems that those who died were the ones who instigated the problem by stabbing an Israeli officer.
There may be more people killed and hurt in this episode before it is over..
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That Israelis aren't issued or trained with bayonets is criminal stupidity. That the Israeli Tavor rifle can't even accept a bayonet because IMI were not prepared to pay the 5 cents per gun to have a bayonet lug welded on to the end of the barrel is tight & stupid.
The Israeli naval commando would never have had his gun snatched from him if they would have boarded with bayonets fixed - "Fix Bayonets!"
(http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/observation-post/viewthread.jpg)
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It is going to be a long day for Israeli diplomats...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137782
Aftershocks and Reprecussions of Flotilla Operation
Sivan 18, 5770, 31 May 10 09:33
by Eli Stutz
(Israelnationalnews.com) The aftershocks of the Israeli boarding of the Gaza-bound flotilla are being felt in Israel and abroad:
In Israel, Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon will hold a press conference at 10:30 AM in Jerusalem on the flotilla operation.
Security forces and Magen David Adom are preparing for possible violence across Israel due to the IDF flotilla operation. In Gaza, Hamas terrorists are calling on Arabs to take to the streets and to, "take revenge on Israel." The country is on its highest alert. Israeli Arab MK Taleb A-Sanaa issued a press release Monday in which he called IDF soldiers “Nazis” for stopping the pro-Gaza flotilla.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is convening an emergency meeting in Jerusalem on the flotilla operation. The Foreign ministry may call for Israelis in Turkey to leave the country, and for other Israelis to cancel their travel plans to Turkey, due to the risk of violence. Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Gal will hold a briefing for Israel's foreign ambassadors at noon today. Israel plans to demand that Turkey take responsibility for its citizens who are on Israeli ground.
In Istanbul, Turkey, hundreds of people are protesting Israel's Gaza flotilla operation outside Israel's consulate. Israel's ambassador to Turkey has been summoned for a rebuke by Turkey's foreign ministry, which blames Israel for the incident, calling it, "an unprecedented criminal act which has sent Israel-Turkey relations into a tailspin."
In Canada, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who there for a state visit, is receiving updates on the incident despite the fact that it is late night time there. He spoke with Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who held an emergency meeting with the IDF Chief of Staff, General Gabi Ashkenazi. Also, Barak spoke with the head of the Shin Bet, Yuval Diskin, and the Turkish Secretary of Defense, Foreign Minister, and Ambassador in Israel.
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Tell me honestly - how can a person who's on a ship with weaponary which will be used to murder Jews and people who murdered Jews can be innocent? how can one who supports the enemies of the Jewish people be innocent? They're Rodfim, and they're Amalekites, just like the German young soldiers in the Holocaust who served in the Wehrmacht, the SD and the Waffen SS - just like the vast majority of Arabs who are "brainwashed" (the others are intellectuals who chose to be evil).
Also, the comparison between a terrorist (whether "brainwashed" or not, it's not the case) and Lot is obscene and beyond any logical explanation.
Once you collide with HaShem's enemy, you're dead, no matter who you are or why you did that.
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That Israelis aren't issued or trained with bayonets is criminal stupidity. That the Israeli Tavor rifle can't even accept a bayonet because IMI were not prepared to pay the 5 cents per gun to have a bayonet lug welded on to the end of the barrel is tight & stupid.
The Israeli naval commando would never have had his gun snatched from him if they would have boarded with bayonets fixed - "Fix Bayonets!"
(http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/observation-post/viewthread.jpg)
Interesting point wonga... You'd think a bayonet is such a simple addition and, as you say, inexpensive... Why should they not have them?
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Should have sunk the whole "floatilla".
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The ships should be treated the same way the Bismarck and Tirpitz CBs were treated by the British in WWII.
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Tell me honestly - how can a person who's on a ship with weaponary which will be used to murder Jews and people who murdered Jews can be innocent? how can one who supports the enemies of the Jewish people be innocent? They're Rodfim, and they're Amalekites, just like the German young soldiers in the Holocaust who served in the Wehrmacht, the SD and the Waffen SS - just like the vast majority of Arabs who are "brainwashed" (the others are intellectuals who chose to be evil).
Also, the comparison between a terrorist (whether "brainwashed" or not, it's not the case) and Lot is obscene and beyond any logical explanation.
Once you collide with HaShem's enemy, you're dead, no matter who you are or why you did that.
Ron,
You are going a bit off on a tangent here. I did not ever compare Lot with a terrorist, that is something you are suggesting. I simply pointed out that Abraham prayed for Sdom to be spared from certain destruction, because Sdom was a wicked place where people were killed for being kind to the poor, because Abraham was concerned about the innocent being killed along with the wicked. Because there were not 10 righteous people amongst the Sdomites, Hashem decided only Lot, his wife and daughters would be saved.
I do not know the facts other than what I am reading... The media is only reporting that the ships are carrying humanitarian supplies, such as food, building materials, and such... There is no mention that they are bringing in weapons. If this is the deception which is being attempted then it will need to be exposed...
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Maimonides explained in his Epistle to the Jews of Yemen, "When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.”
Force is the only thing the Arabs understand. If their useful idiot allies wish to consign themselves to the fate of hostile Arabs, they have chosen their own dismal future.
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Do you know for a fact that there is not an innocent person on board, maybe someone who could be righteous except for the fact that they were mislead? I do not know for a fact, and this is all which concerns me...
Do not try to say that I think that the wicked should be spared... No, and you will recall 2 days ago I called for the entire flotilla to be blown out of the water. That was a sincere request, yet I also have had time to consider that there may be some who are innocent..
Do not think I am saying that Israel should not use all force against these enemies, and if the report I just read is true it seems that those who died were the ones who instigated the problem by stabbing an Israeli officer.
There may be more people killed and hurt in this episode before it is over..
בס''ד
No one who supports the Arab Muslim Nazis in Gaza is "innocent". Anyone who supports the Arabs is supporting the extermination of Israel.
This entire incident is another disgusting example of Jewish self-hatred. If we were in power, we would have killed all of them immediately from the air. But of course, there would never have been such a flotilla if we were in power because everyone would know how we would react and no one would dare try something like this.
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This ship should be treated like the cockroach Yitzhak Rabin (yimach schmo) treated the Altalena.
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Do you know for a fact that there is not an innocent person on board, maybe someone who could be righteous except for the fact that they were mislead? I do not know for a fact, and this is all which concerns me...
Do not try to say that I think that the wicked should be spared... No, and you will recall 2 days ago I called for the entire flotilla to be blown out of the water. That was a sincere request, yet I also have had time to consider that there may be some who are innocent..
Do not think I am saying that Israel should not use all force against these enemies, and if the report I just read is true it seems that those who died were the ones who instigated the problem by stabbing an Israeli officer.
There may be more people killed and hurt in this episode before it is over..
בס''ד
No one who supports the Arab Muslim Nazis in Gaza is "innocent". Anyone who supports the Arabs is supporting the extermination of Israel.
This entire incident is another disgusting example of Jewish self-hatred. If we were in power, we would have killed all of them immediately from the air. But of course, there would never have been such a flotilla if we were in power because everyone would know how we would react and no one would dare try something like this.
Of course that would be the best solution. But I think that we will need Moshiach in order to accomplish that in this current world situation. I don't see that response with the current political parties...
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You are going a bit off on a tangent here. I did not ever compare Lot with a terrorist,
By comparing the situation with Lot and Stom and the situation with some "innocents" on an Arab Nazi flotilla, you did.
Because there were not 10 righteous people amongst the Sdomites, Hashem decided only Lot, his wife and daughters would be saved.
Once again, the Sdomites did not even intend to murder Avraham and family (like the Arabs and their allies desire) - the comparison is baseless and I will not be prevented from seeing it as ignorance.
They were cruel to each other but NOT to Avraham and didn't risk him.
I still cannot see the logic in your comparison. How can you compare a city full of Rashaim who didn't hurt Avraham's fly, and a warship of murderers and their supporters who ally themeselves with the enemy who sworn to finish Hitler's job? Would you react the same way you suggest if these not Gaza but Berlin they're heading to and SS troops they're shipping with?
It's obscene how you have mercy on anti-Semites (who cares if they're "brainwashed" or not).
I do not know the facts other than what I am reading... The media is only reporting that the ships are carrying humanitarian supplies, such as food, building materials, and such... There is no mention that they are bringing in weapons. If this is the deception which is being attempted then it will need to be exposed...
Why does it matter? the point is that these people are allying themeselves with an ENEMY, MORTAL ENEMY of the Jewish people.
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Muman, give me one reason why we shouldn't be taking those who may survive an Israeli airstrike and put them in ovens
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Ron,
My simple answer is that I want what you want, but I don't think that this is the time...
There are many problems coming Israels way... I do not like this news concerning Obama bringing up Israel in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty talks... There are many issues which need to be handled in a very careful manner. If Israel, and the Jewish people, do have the power, and I mean a strong Political system which will be able to sustain a prolonged attack against the civilian population, then indeed Israel should act in the best interest of Israel all the time.
What is important in my mind, concerning this flotilla, is that it be prevented from delivering its goods at all costs. I am 100% behind using any force to prevent this stuff from reaching gaza.
But the media will certainly have a field day with this...
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Do you know for a fact that there is not an innocent person on board, maybe someone who could be righteous except for the fact that they were mislead? I do not know for a fact, and this is all which concerns me...
Do not try to say that I think that the wicked should be spared... No, and you will recall 2 days ago I called for the entire flotilla to be blown out of the water. That was a sincere request, yet I also have had time to consider that there may be some who are innocent..
Do not think I am saying that Israel should not use all force against these enemies, and if the report I just read is true it seems that those who died were the ones who instigated the problem by stabbing an Israeli officer.
There may be more people killed and hurt in this episode before it is over..
בס''ד
No one who supports the Arab Muslim Nazis in Gaza is "innocent". Anyone who supports the Arabs is supporting the extermination of Israel.
This entire incident is another disgusting example of Jewish self-hatred. If we were in power, we would have killed all of them immediately from the air. But of course, there would never have been such a flotilla if we were in power because everyone would know how we would react and no one would dare try something like this.
Of course that would be the best solution. But I think that we will need Moshiach in order to accomplish that in this current world situation. I don't see that response with the current political parties...
בס''ד
The fact that Israel does not do what should be done in incidents like this is what is preventing Mashiach from coming. It is Chillul Hashem (desecration of G-d's name) not to immediately kill our Nazi Amalekite enemies.
There is no comparison with Avraham Avinu and Sdom (Sodom). Avraham thought there might be some righteous living in Sdom. But the Nazi Amalekites on these boats in the flotilla are already actively participating in a campaign to assist Israel's Arab Muslim enemies. Any one who participates in any campaign aimed at assisting the Arab Nazis in any way is evil and deserves destruction.
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but I don't think that this is the time...
You gave 0 justified reasons to this claim.
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The self hating Israeli media is now busy with self flagellation and panic seeding over this incident.
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The JTF seems to be the only place with some common sense opinions over this incident. I'm glad to be here.
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Muman, give me one reason why we shouldn't be taking those who may survive an Israeli airstrike and put them in ovens
The wicked will be destroyed, that much is certain.
If you know that all these are enemies then you must stop it any way, as I suggested initially to blow them out of the water.
I don't think we differ much, except I do feel that some involved may have been duped. But I will not argue that point any longer. Im sure you don't agree with me.
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Ron,
My simple answer is that I want what you want, but I don't think that this is the time...
There are many problems coming Israels way... I do not like this news concerning Obama bringing up Israel in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty talks... There are many issues which need to be handled in a very careful manner. If Israel, and the Jewish people, do have the power, and I mean a strong Political system which will be able to sustain a prolonged attack against the civilian population, then indeed Israel should act in the best interest of Israel all the time.
What is important in my mind, concerning this flotilla, is that it be prevented from delivering its goods at all costs. I am 100% behind using any force to prevent this stuff from reaching gaza.
But the media will certainly have a field day with this...
בס''ד
This fear of world opinion is the essence of our problem. Either we believe in Hashem or we believe that human beings are more powerful than G-d.
The whole purpose of Israel's existence is to defy world opinion and defeat our enemies against all odds in order to prove that Hashem is the ruler of the world. That is why Israel exists.
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except I do feel that some involved may have been duped.
Muman, on this issue I couldn't disagree with you more. Who cares if anyone was duped? G-d gave every single one of us intellect and a free will. Nobody was forced to take Nazi stances. It was their own choice.
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The JTF seems to be the only place with some common sense opinions over this incident. I'm glad to be here.
This is the kind of respect we shall get from Gentiles if we will stop being afraid of them like Muman suggested.
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Ron,
My simple answer is that I want what you want, but I don't think that this is the time...
There are many problems coming Israels way... I do not like this news concerning Obama bringing up Israel in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty talks... There are many issues which need to be handled in a very careful manner. If Israel, and the Jewish people, do have the power, and I mean a strong Political system which will be able to sustain a prolonged attack against the civilian population, then indeed Israel should act in the best interest of Israel all the time.
What is important in my mind, concerning this flotilla, is that it be prevented from delivering its goods at all costs. I am 100% behind using any force to prevent this stuff from reaching gaza.
But the media will certainly have a field day with this...
בס''ד
This fear of world opinion is the essence of our problem. Either we believe in Hashem or we believe that human beings are more powerful than G-d.
The whole purpose of Israel's existence is to defy world opinion and defeat our enemies against all odds in order to prove that Hashem is the ruler of the world. That is why Israel exists.
Chaim,
I so much agree with this... We must not worry about world opinion, we must do what is right in Hashems eyes, which is to stand up for the land...
We need to have a strong leader, a strong government in Israel, which can strengthen the military might of the Israeli army... I think all these things are essential in order for Israel to stand up for itself and accomplish what Hashem wants from us.
Look at the situation now. It is still very bad and needs someone stronger than Bibi... Unfortunately Bibi has cultivated an image as the right-winger in Israeli politics. I had to correct my uncle over brunch last week when he started to praise Bibi...
I will live to see the vision of a strong Israeli leader, bringing the exiles back to Eretz Yisroel.
Let us strike fear in the enemies of Hashem.
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The JTF seems to be the only place with some common sense opinions over this incident. I'm glad to be here.
This is the kind of respect we shall get from Gentiles if we will stop being afraid of them like Muman suggested.
Ron,
I did not suggest being afraid of them either...
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The JTF seems to be the only place with some common sense opinions over this incident. I'm glad to be here.
This is the kind of respect we shall get from Gentiles if we will stop being afraid of them like Muman suggested.
Ron,
I did not suggest being afraid of them either...
Then I find dishonesty in your posts throught the thread.
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The JTF seems to be the only place with some common sense opinions over this incident. I'm glad to be here.
This is the kind of respect we shall get from Gentiles if we will stop being afraid of them like Muman suggested.
Ron,
I did not suggest being afraid of them either...
Then I find dishonesty in your posts throught the thread.
You are in one of those moods tonight, aren't you Ron?
Dishonesty, my arse... You are just being a schmuck..
I said
1) If there are any innocents on board I would be concerned about killing them along with the wicked...
2) That at this time Israel needs to be concerned with what the world thinks. I do not think that Israel is ready at this time {unless Hashem performs a miracle, which we are not supposed to rely on miracles} to fight like we did in the six day war.
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See why I say dishonesty ???
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See why I say dishonesty ???
It is not afraid when you look at the situation realistically and realize that without a miracle we will not accomplish what we want.
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See why I say dishonesty ???
It is not afraid when you look at the situation realistically and realize that without a miracle we will not accomplish what we want.
Miracles happan every second.
If we thought the same way in the Liberation war, in the Six Days war, and in the Yom Kippur war, we would have been anything but alive.
Once we do what is needed to be done, and have our Trust and Hope in G-D, everything will be good and HaShem will help us.
What you call "realism" gave us only disasters, and this is not realism but Kitnut Emuna.
The Meshiach awaits us, and not the opposite.
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If it is time, it is time... But I am tired of arguing with everyone about this...
Forgive me if you think I am being soft on evil, I do not see it like that at all. I will deal with evil as evil needs to be dealt with... But I also do not take pleasure in this battle... I only want to see what we all hope for, as the prophets wrote, the ingathering and the rise of Israels power in the world...
Is it time? You tell me?
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If it is time, it is time... But I am tired of arguing with everyone about this...
Forgive me if you think I am being soft on evil, I do not see it like that at all. I will deal with evil as evil needs to be dealt with... But I also do not take pleasure in this battle... I only want to see what we all hope for, as the prophets wrote, the ingathering and the rise of Israels power in the world...
Is it time? You tell me?
So you want the Moshiach do the job for us? You want us back in the Galut or something? cause by acting like you suggest, we will go back there really soon.
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If there are any innocents on board I would be concerned about killing them along with the wicked...
Muman, can you please explain to me how an innocent gets onboard a Nazi ship?
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If it is time, it is time... But I am tired of arguing with everyone about this...
Forgive me if you think I am being soft on evil, I do not see it like that at all. I will deal with evil as evil needs to be dealt with... But I also do not take pleasure in this battle... I only want to see what we all hope for, as the prophets wrote, the ingathering and the rise of Israels power in the world...
Is it time? You tell me?
So you want the Moshiach do the job for us? You want us back in the Galut or something? cause by acting like you suggest, we will go back there really soon.
Do I want Moshiach to do it for us? Not unless he has to... I think Israel should become strong, with a strong government with the will to accomplish the goal... If there are governments like Olmert, or even Bibi, the will wont be there.
My will is that we do it. But as I said multiple times I am concerned that Israel is not really prepared for the big war at this time..
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I am usually not so quick to pull the trigger as Chaim and Ron, but in this case I have to agree. Nobody on these ships who took the extreme step of actually participating in this unholy mission can plea innocence or misguidance. It is pure and intentional malice. I would rather sink the ships than risk the lives of our soldiers.
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http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/05/31/idf-forces-met-with-pre-planned-violence-when-attempting-to-board-flotilla-31-may-2010/
"IDF Forces Met with Pre-Planned Violence when Attempting to Board Flotilla,
31 May 2010
Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces boarded six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the action. The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections.
During the boarding of the ships, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.
As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces employed riot dispersal means, including live fire.
According to initial reports, these events resulted in over ten deaths among the demonstrators and numerous injured, in addition, more than four naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners are currently being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.
Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.
The events are ongoing, and information will be updated as soon as possible. Israeli Naval commander, Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom is overseeing the events.
In the coming hours, the ships will be directed to the Ashdod port, while IDF naval forces will perform security checks in order to identify the people on board the ships and their equipment. The IDF Spokesman conveys that this event is currently unfolding and further details will be provided as soon as possible.
This IDF naval operation was carried out under orders from the political leadership to halt the flotilla from reaching the Gaza Strip and breaching the maritime closure.
The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.
IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail."
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Israel has been more than fair to our enemies to an insane degree which has gone so far as to be unfair to the IDF soldiers who have been attacked and injured. These terrorists could have been militarily deterred from a distance where no Israeli lives were put in jeopardy. Instead multiple Jews were harmed.
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Not a single one of these creatures should be left alive, they should be killed and killed as swiftly as possible.
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Not a single one of these creatures should be left alive, they should be killed and killed as swiftly as possible.
Amein.
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If it is time, it is time... But I am tired of arguing with everyone about this...
Forgive me if you think I am being soft on evil, I do not see it like that at all. I will deal with evil as evil needs to be dealt with... But I also do not take pleasure in this battle... I only want to see what we all hope for, as the prophets wrote, the ingathering and the rise of Israels power in the world...
Is it time? You tell me?
So you want the Moshiach do the job for us? You want us back in the Galut or something? cause by acting like you suggest, we will go back there really soon.
Do I want Moshiach to do it for us? Not unless he has to... I think Israel should become strong, with a strong government with the will to accomplish the goal... If there are governments like Olmert, or even Bibi, the will wont be there.
My will is that we do it. But as I said multiple times I am concerned that Israel is not really prepared for the big war at this time..
"For with wise advice thou shalt make thy war; and in the multitude of counsellors there is safety." Proverbs 24:6 = Human effort
"A king is not saved by the multitude of a host; a mighty man is not delivered by great strength." "A horse is a vain thing for safety; neither doth it afford escape by its great strength." - Psalms 33:16-17
All the horses and chariots and power in the world, couldn't be saved and run away from Hashem, he decides the result of a war, the human effort we're doing is a Mitzvah for itself, that Hashem commands us to do, because He wants us to do, and not just sit down and depend on miracles, but wants to see that we trust Him and do Mitzvoht even if they're dangerous, the point is that we'll trust Him and He will assist us.
How is human effort expressed? the point is to get ready to the task the best we can.. It means, what we can do, we need to do.. but if there's not enough weaponary G-D forbid, it doesn't mean we should abandon the Mitzvah, but to do our best with the current methods and have our Trust in Hashem to assist and save us.
And of course if we have good tools, it's not the Way of Torah to abandon them from another way of thinking, because "anywho" the point is to have our Trust in Hashem only and do His Commandaments, so we shouldn't invest too much. No, we need to do every human effort we can possible do in order to ensure the best preparedness from the human aspect (in the level of reason, it doesn't mean we shouldn't go to war when it's needed, if we don't have enough swords, but do that with what we have).
"Some trust in chariots, and some in horses; {N}
but we will make mention of the name of the LORD our G-d."
is the most important thing to remember. They're those who depend on horses and chariots, tanks and aircrafts, we use them and develop them because of human effort, but we rely on Hashem and His great name,
"Our soul hath waited for the LORD; He is our help and our shield."
"For in Him doth our heart rejoice, because we have trusted in His holy name." Psalms 33:20-21,
Our enemies are -
"They are bowed down and fallen;" Psalms 20:9
and we are - "but we are risen, and stand upright" Psalms 20:9
"4 For not by their own sword did they get the land in possession, neither did their own arm save them; {N}
but Thy right hand, and Thine arm, and the light of Thy countenance, because Thou wast favourable unto them.
5 Thou art my King, O G-d; command the salvation of Jacob.
6 Through Thee do we push down our adversaries; through Thy name do we tread them under that rise up against us.
7 For I trust not in my bow, neither can my sword save me.
8 But Thou hast saved us from our adversaries, and hast put them to shame that hate us.
9 In G-d have we gloried all the day, and we will give thanks unto Thy name for ever. Selah"
The Torah commands us, "For with wise advice thou shalt make thy war" - that's the Torahnic way of War and Survival.
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I hope that they dont have to kill them all...
We need to bomb them from the air and make sure nobody escaped.
we then need to bomb turkey to prevent such things from happening.
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Israel did the right thing. Who knows what was on board of this ships. They had for shure weapons.
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Only today did I learn that it was the new Prime Minister of Turkey, who in collusion with Hamas, instigated this "flotilla" against Israel.
The boats were warned to turn back and they refused.
All the boats should have been blasted out of the water, and the parties who organized and financed the event should be hunted down and killed.
Only by taking this kind of action will the gullible "volunteers" realize that next time they'd better decide to stay home and "help" their own countries.
Chaim is 100% right -- these are professional terrorists bent on commiting genocide against us.
Their phony propaganda claims that "a Holocaust Survivor" is one of their members lacks any credibility whatsoever.
In New York City it's easy to find a mentally ill Bolshevik in their 80's or 90's who survived a Nazi Concentration Camp and who is still a committed activist and member of every Marxist front group and terrorist organization.
This is as cynical a propaganda ploy as Josef Stalin hosting concert tours by Paul Robeson, the famous American Negro singer and actor who was a Communist, as "proof" to the Russian people that Americans believed in Communism.
If these "activists" really wanted a better world, they would be in Louisiana right now saving wildlife and cleaning oil damage off of America's shores and beaches.
Supporters of Hamas and the PLO deserve death without pity.
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any aid going to people who breed nursery of terror should be blocked, well done Israel!
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Kill all these pro-terrorist scum. I hope Israel kills everyone of these animals.
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Israel should have bombed that flotilla into smithereens by air. What is this business about having our precious Jewish soldiers risking their lives by boarding that ship? The lives of Israeli soldiers are not worth it! And of course Israel will be criticized in the media and the usual anti-semite commentators. Israel should have just blown the flotilla out of the water, and then held a press conference saying "We realized world opinion will be against us no matter what, so we no longer care. That ship of terror supporters in our waters was completely destroyed. Let that be a lesson to anyone who tries to harm the Jewish state."
Also, they should completely destroy Gaza.
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flotilla members shouted "Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya'ud" ( 'Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Mohammed is returning), thats when the Jewish soldiers realized the threat to their life, and attacked flotilla.
Got this from a hindu nationalist twitter channel
http://twitter.com/ZoomIndianMedia
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flotilla members shouted "Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya'ud" ( 'Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Mohammed is returning), thats when the Jewish soldiers realized the threat to their life, and attacked flotilla.
Got this from a hindu nationalist twitter channel
http://twitter.com/ZoomIndianMedia
you see.you get pakistani terrorists on boats and we get turkish psychos on boats.find the difference.this will make a great movie.
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That Israelis aren't issued or trained with bayonets is criminal stupidity. That the Israeli Tavor rifle can't even accept a bayonet because IMI were not prepared to pay the 5 cents per gun to have a bayonet lug welded on to the end of the barrel is tight & stupid.
The Israeli naval commando would never have had his gun snatched from him if they would have boarded with bayonets fixed - "Fix Bayonets!"
(http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/observation-post/viewthread.jpg)
For a naval commando with a bayonet to rappel from a helicopter would very dangerous they should have had a large boarding ship where the boarding party could have boarded in large numbers at once.And the idiocy of paintball guns
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flotilla members shouted "Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya'ud" ( 'Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Mohammed is returning), thats when the Jewish soldiers realized the threat to their life, and attacked flotilla.
Got this from a hindu nationalist twitter channel
http://twitter.com/ZoomIndianMedia
Flotilla participants chanted Islamic battle cry invoking killing of Jews
Reporter: "Despite the Israeli threats and several unexpected delays, the arrival of the ships at the meeting point before sailing to the Gaza Strip inflamed the emotions and the enthusiasm of the participants."
Visuals from Gaza flotilla ship of young Muslims shouting Islamic battle chant invoking the killing and defeat of Jews in battle:
"[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!"
[Khaibar is the name of last Jewish village defeated by Muhammad’s army and it marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia in 628.]
Reporter: "While singing songs reminiscent of the Palestinian Intifada (Palestinian terror war against Israel, 2000 - 2005), participants expressed their longing to reach Gaza."
A participant: "Right now we face one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza." [Based on Islamic call before battle: "Either victory or Martyrdom".]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded
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Just sink the stupid boats and kill everyone aboard. And if more boats come, sink them too. Enough is enough. Show strength to these animals and they'll give up and go home. Better they hate Jews in their disgusting home countries than hate Jews on Jewish land.
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They also should have had high power fire houses to keep the qurananimals down
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Lets turn the flotilla into the sink-tilla.
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They also should have had high power fire houses to keep the qurananimals down
I agree with you Mord. From watching the videos, I thought Israel put her commandos in a very bad situation. They were under-manned and not enough fire power. The soldiers were vastly outnumbered- from what I could tell from the videos that the people here posted. They soldiers boarded that flotilla and were sitting ducks for those Turks, who were stabbing them and beating them with pipes. Who ever sent those commandos into battle like that should be fired. Two Jewish commandos are in critical condition because of that mistake, and ten more are wounded.
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Israel always puts enemy "civilians" ahead of its own soldiers.
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Israel always puts enemy "civilians" ahead of its own soldiers.
No doubt about that, Thunderbolt!
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Turkey is now threatening militay action against Israel, after their Turks stabbed and beat israeli soldiers on board the flotilla. The Turks left two Israeli soldiers in critical condition, and wounded ten others. I sure hope Israel isn't afraid of that threat, and will hit Turkey hard if, if Turkey attacks.