JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chaim Ben Pesach on June 14, 2010, 09:09:39 PM
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בס''ד
They should burn instead of the flag.
Look at Yisroel Dovid Weiss ys"v their leader at 3:10. Tell me if you ever saw an uglier person in your lives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERK-Uhmzleo
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Germans who dress like Jews.
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I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing. But as the saying goes "beauty is skin deep, ugly goes straight to the bone."
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I've come really close up in person with this creature. He truely does look like Helen Thomas. :laugh:
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I love these judenrat kappos talking about how they're the only real Jews. Real Jews live in New York and wear those ridiculous Polish/Russian outfits. That's REAL Judaism right there.
Sit around in New York eating pistrami sandwiches with pickles and wait for God to end your exile while informing and working with muslims and other nazis to murder your fellow Jews. That's what REAL Jews are all about.
Fck Neturei Karta.
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I love these judenrat kappos talking about how they're the only real Jews. Real Jews live in New York and wear those ridiculous Polish/Russian outfits. That's REAL Judaism right there.
Sit around in New York eating pistrami sandwiches with pickles and wait for G-d to end your exile while informing and working with muslims and other nazis to murder your fellow Jews. That's what REAL Jews are all about.
Fck Neturei Karta.
I hope you are not insulting all Chassids because Chabad and Breslov also dress in black... And Breslov has its primary Yeshiva in Jerusalem, not New York.. And there is nothing wrong with a kosher Pastrami sandwich, it is one of my favorite sandwiches.
What you should spend your time on is rebuking them for their twisted views, not how they look or what they eat...
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I think the dress comment is because of the unfortunate circumstance of the exile which has permeated in their Torah views. There is gonna come a time where Jews are going have to stop dressing like that. This is why they sit around and base everything on a Christ. The way the Rambam describes the Moshiach is nothing like how they think . Im sure you know this Muman.
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I think the dress comment is because of the unfortunate circumstance of the exile which has permeated in their Torah views. There is gonna come a time where Jews are going have to stop dressing like that. This is why they sit around and base everything on a Christ. The way the Rambam describes the Moshiach is nothing like how they think . Im sure you know this Muman.
What are you talking about?
Chabad believes that Moshiach is coming any time, this is standard Orthodox belief...
So does Breslov teach that Moshiach is coming any time, absolutely according to Rambams descriptions..
Here are some links in case you are interested:
http://www.breslov.co.il
http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/breslev/rebbe_nachmans_wisdom/rebbe_nachman_on_moshiach.aspx?id=8001&language=english
http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/breslev/customs_and_thought/the_fire_of_moshiach.aspx?id=2331&language=english
http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/spirituality_and_faith/spiritual_growth/generation_of_moshiach.aspx?id=9701&language=english
http://www.chabad.org
http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/237/jewish/Moshiach-and-the-Future-Redemption.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/What-is-the-Jewish-Belief-About-Moshiach.htm
Neither of these Chassidic groups wait for any 'Christ'... They believe that their Rebbe was a spark of Moshiach, which is certainly possible... I believe Rabbi Schnerson and Rabbi Kahane both had sparks of Moshiach...
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From Chabad @ http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/What-is-the-Jewish-Belief-About-Moshiach.htm
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Where is Mashiach mentioned in the Scriptures?
The Scriptures are replete with messianic quotes. In Deuteronomy 30:1 Moshe prophesies that, after the Jews have been scattered to the four corners of the earth, there will come a time when they will repent and return to Israel where they will fulfil all the commandments of the Torah. The gentile prophet Bilam prophesies that this return will be lead by Mashiach (see Numbers 24:17-20). Jacob refers to Mashiach by the name Shilo (Genesis 49:10).
The prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Joel and Hosea all refer to the messianic era. For full references the reader is referred to the book Mashiach by Rabbi Dr.I.Schochet. It is interesting to note that on the wall of the United Nations building in New York is inscribed the quote from Isaiah (Ch.11:6), “And the wolf shall lie with the lamb”. Furthermore, it is clear from the prophets, when studied in their original Hebrew, that Mashiach is a Jewish concept and will entail return to Torah law, firmly ruling out any “other” messianic belief.
What sort of leader will Mashiach be?
Mashiach will be a man who possesses extraordinary qualities. He will be proficient in both the written and oral Torah traditions. He will incessantly campaign for Torah observance among Jews and observance of the Seven Universal Noahide Laws by non-Jews. He will be scrupulously observant and encourage the highest standards from others. He will defend religious principles and repair breaches in their observance. Above all, Mashiach will be heralded as a true Jewish King, a person who leads the way in the service of G–d, totally humble yet enormously inspiring.
When will Mashiach come?
Jews anticipate the arrival of Mashiach everyday. Our prayers are full of requests to G–d to usher in the messianic era. Even at the gates of the gas chambers many Jews sang, “Ani Maamin” – I believe in the coming of Mashiach!
However, the Talmud states that there is a predestined time when Mashiach will come. If we are meritorious he may come even before that predestined time. This “end of time” remains a mystery, yet the Talmud states that it will be before the Hebrew year 6000. (The Hebrew year at the date of this publication is 5763.)
This does not rule out the possibility of Mashiach coming today and now if we merit it. It should be noted that many Torah authorities are of the opinion that we are in the “epoch of the Mashiach” and the Lubavitcher Rebbe stated on numerous occasions that the messianic redemption is imminent.
Could Mashiach come at any time in any generation?
Yes. In every generation there is a person who potentially could be the Mashiach. When G–d decides the time has arrived, He will bestow upon that individual the necessary powers for him to precipitate that redemption.
Any potential Mashiach must be a direct descendant of King David as well as erudite in Torah learning. It should be noted that many people living today can trace their lineage back to King David. The Chief Rabbi of Prague in the 16th Century, Rabbi Yehuda Loew (the Maharal), had a family tree that traced him back to the Davidic dynasty. Consequently, any direct descendant of the Maharal is of Davidic descent.
Maimonides, a great Jewish philosopher and codifier of the 12th Century, rules that if we recognise a human being who possesses the superlative qualities ascribed to Mashiach we may presume that he is the potential Mashiach. If this individual actually succeeds in rebuilding the Temple and gathering in the exiles then he is the Mashiach.
What exactly will happen when Mashiach comes?
Maimonides states in his Mishnah Torah – a compendium of the entire halachic tradition – that Mashiach will first rebuild the Temple and then gather in the exiles. Jerusalem and the Temple will be the focus of Divine worship and “From Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of the L–rd from Jerusalem.”
The Sanhedrin – a supreme Jewish law court of 71 sages – will be established and will decide on all matters of law. At this time all Jews will return to full Torah observance and practice. It should be noted that in this present age of great assimilation and emancipation an unprecedented return of Jews to true Torah values has taken place. This “Baal Teshuvah” phenomenon is on the increase and paves the way for a full return in the messianic era.
Will miracles happen?
The Talmud discusses this question and again arrives at the conclusion that, if we are meritorious, the messianic redemption will be accompanied by miracles. However, the realisation of the messianic dream, even if it takes place naturally, will be the greatest miracle.
According to some traditions G–d Himself will rebuild the third Temple. According to others it will be rebuilt by Mashiach, while others suggest a combination of the two opinions. Some suggest that there will be two distinct periods in the messianic era: the first, a non-miraculous period, leading on to a second miraculous period.
Maimonides writes, “Neither the order of the occurrence of these events nor their precise detail is among the fundamental principles of the faith … one should wait and believe in the general conception of the matter.”
...
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בס''ד
These vile creatures are worse than the Nazis. For them to appear in their costumes and call themselves Jewish when they support the annihilation of their own people is a Chillul Hashem (desecration of G-d's name) worse than what the Nazis do.
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בס''ד
These vile creatures are worse than the Nazis. For them to appear in their costumes and call themselves Jewish when they support the annihilation of their own people is a Chillul Hashem (desecration of G-d's name) worse than what the Nazis do.
No doubt... A Jew who informs, or calls for the injuring of innocent Jews who are living in the promised land, is one of the worst sinners. I agree fully that this is a chillul Hashem. No doubt there is a special place in gehenom for these rodefs.
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Germans who dress like Jews.
[censored]! They do not even speak German... But the Central Council of Jews in Germany was and is promoting Muslim immigration into Germany. This is one reason why many people here actually think that Jews in Germany are digging their own graves by promoting their murderers in. And I think they are not so wrong in that point.
Anyway it is NK dreck that should be sent to Siberia! They are American Nazurei Karta.
The guy who uploaded the video seems to be bored. In his channel he writes about how many accounts he has. What a stupid person.
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This is Jewish sickness and madness reaching its height.
I guess these people would deliberately have made their way to Auschwitz and begged the Nazis to be gassed first.
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They are grotesque.
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Sickening... Ya know flag burning pigs in Israel remind me of flag burning in America.. Both are done by the ugliest nastiest traitors. With people like them who needs enemies. I agreed with Lisa I had to stop watching this. Now you watch every Arab insect is going to use this as their own propaganda.
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Sickening... Ya know flag burning pigs in Israel remind me of flag burning in America.. Both are done by the ugliest nastiest traitors. With people like them who needs enemies. I agreed with Lisa I had to stop watching this. Now you watch every Arab insect is going to use this as their own propaganda.
I bet this is one of the favourite videos of Muslim propagandists and leftist apologists throughout the world! Now they can say again "Zionist aren't Jewish!"
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I love these judenrat kappos talking about how they're the only real Jews. Real Jews live in New York and wear those ridiculous Polish/Russian outfits. That's REAL Judaism right there.
Sit around in New York eating pistrami sandwiches with pickles and wait for G-d to end your exile while informing and working with muslims and other nazis to murder your fellow Jews. That's what REAL Jews are all about.
Fck Neturei Karta.
Just don't get confused and think that any Jew who looks similar or dresses like them is part of their group. They simply copy the haredi style for "authenticity," but don't hate on anyone who dresses like that (or eats pistrami).
So, not all haredim are antizionists.
However, we should address the very real problem of so-called religious "anti zionism" which taken to its logical conclusion is this.
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I'd like to know where they get those huge hats that look like flying saucers covered with bear fur!
These NK give me the impression that they're all borderline psychotic.
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I'd like to know where they get those huge hats that look like flying saucers covered with bear fur!
These NK give me the impression that they're all borderline psychotic.
Um, you're not serious are you? Those are common streimels which the vast majority of the various types of chassidic Jews wear.
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Muman, I personally think its a shame that these Jews dress that way(particularly to the extreme of the neturei karta). That type of dress was originally worn the anti-Semitic aristocracy in Europe and now its considered authentically Jewish. I can't understand why they would have accepted it as a form of dress. It's a real pity when you take something that isn't yours and make it a symbol of your identity. Is it any different if in 200 years Jews wore swastikas and accepted the swastika as a Jewish symbol?
The fact they all live outside of Israel is an even bigger shame. There's a huge Chabad community being built near where I live outside of Toronto. I've worked in providing youth sport programs at several synagogues in the area(it's a very Jewish area) and I know them to be very strong, moral people who are very zionist. I think to myself what good they could do if they built their community in Israel as opposed to in Ontario, Canada. They have a lot of children, the children are most intelligent, well-behaved and athletic. If they all lived in Israel with their uncompromising right-wing beliefs, I venture many of Israel's current problems would not have happened. Ok, they believe the messiah could come at any time and when he comes he will change everything. But why not move to Israel and help their fellow Jews in the mean time?
I might get some flak for this, but from the NK people and a lot of the haredim from Israel that I see in pictures, they don't look like strong people. They look weak and mishappen compared to other Jews. Chaim always used to say the Jewish pioneers in Israel are such a beautiful and strong people and I would agree with him. I apologize if this is offensive, I don't mean it to be.
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Muman, I personally think its a shame that these Jews dress that way(particularly to the extreme of the neturei karta). That type of dress was originally worn the anti-Semitic aristocracy in Europe
Really? What's the basis for this argument? Do you have a source for that?
From what I have heard, the streimel was actually forced upon the Jews as a sign of shame by the antisemitic govt that they had to wear a dead animal on their head, but they made a fancy fur hat out of it and stuck with it. I don't know if it's true, but I certainly have never heard or seen of gentile govt's or aristocracy wearing streimels. And believe me I'm no fan of this particular hat, I wouldn't wear one, but let's get our facts straight.
As to the rest of their outfits, I don't think that type of dress was limited to "antisemitic aristocracy" but looks like it was simply the common European style of garments (to wear a long coat outside). Do you have any sources to substantiate whether or not this was the style particular to a certain group?
now its considered authentically Jewish.
By whom? "Authentically Jewish?" It's not written in the halacha. It's simply what many types of religious Jews commonly wear. If you don't like the style, you can be a religious Jew who wears something different.
Is it any different if in 200 years Jews wore swastikas and accepted the swastika as a Jewish symbol?
Yes that's quite different.
I mean, really. Are you serious?
Since when is a "long black coat" a symbol of a well-known murderous, jew-hating political view whose adherents murdered 6 million Jews?
The fact they all live outside of Israel is an even bigger shame. There's a huge Chabad community being built near where I live outside of Toronto. I've worked in providing youth sport programs at several synagogues in the area(it's a very Jewish area) and I know them to be very strong, moral people who are very zionist. I think to myself what good they could do if they built their community in Israel as opposed to in Ontario, Canada. They have a lot of children, the children are most intelligent, well-behaved and athletic. If they all lived in Israel with their uncompromising right-wing beliefs, I venture many of Israel's current problems would not have happened. Ok, they believe the messiah could come at any time and when he comes he will change everything. But why not move to Israel and help their fellow Jews in the mean time?
I agree.
I might get some flak for this, but from the NK people and a lot of the haredim from Israel
Well if you go to Israel you will see for yourself that haredim are a mixed group like any other, with physically fit, fat, skinny, tall, short, etc etc. They don't incorporate athletics or physical endeavor as much, so maybe on average they are less buff-looking or less strong. But I don't see only a bunch of wimpy steve urkel's walking around with pocket protectors. They are a mix of people.
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Re: Moshiach and some questions regarding Moshiach's identity.
muman613,
Re: "...Rabbi Yehuda Loew (the Maharal), had a family tree that traced him back to the Davidic dynasty. Consequently, any direct descendant of the Maharal is of Davidic descent.
-Does this mean any human being who is a direct blood descendant of King David?
-Does the term "descendant" include someone from either male or female ancestry no matter how far distant in the family bloodline?
For instance: The family members of the young David - any/all blood relatives descending from his siblings, cousins, etc...?
-Or, does the definition include a descendant from any of the numerous wifes and concubines of David's son Shlomo -- many of whom remained pagans who worshipped idols yet bore children to King Solomon?
-If an idol worshipping wife of Shlomo bore children who later converted to Judaism, are they included in the list of possible candidates being that they are technically descendants of David even though some of their ancestors were not Jews?
-Any significance to the fact that David's ancestor Ruth was a Moabite convert and not originally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel?
Re: "...the Talmud states that it will be before the Hebrew year 6000. (The Hebrew year at the date of this publication is 5763.)"
From what basis does Talmud arrive at this scheduled time period?
And...if Hebrew year 6000 passes with no Moshiach, would Talmud be then relegated to the classification of 'interesting reading, but mere speculation ' in terms of the many conclusions offered in its arguments based on Talmudic logic?
-When Moshiach arrives, will mankind still have to go to dentists, surgeons, psychoanalysts, as before? Or...will nature be transformed so that all physical bodies are free of any malady or need for regular maintenance?
- The Shabtai Tzvi incident resulted in a historical fiasco which to this day remains an embarrassment for the Jewish people. The Jews of Medieval Europe were so convinced that Shabtai Tzvi was the long awaited Moshiach that they literally packed their suitcases and awaited his bringing each and every one to Eretz Yisrael. The Rabbis of the his time attributed to him not only all the attributes and qualifications of Moshiach, but also 'near-divine' powers far exceeding that of a normal Jew, and spread the word around the globe that "Moshiach has come!" Tzvi's capture by the Turks and his conversion to Islam resulted in his 'true believers' "redefining his mission and teachings"; so firm were they in their belief that he indeed was and is Moshiach. Thus developed a heretical cult which survives to this very day called "Frankism" -- those who follow the teachings of Jacob Frank the apostate. There have recently in Israel been Knesset members proudly boasting that they and all their families have long been Frankists, and we have throughout the world today those like the fake "Rabbi" Michael Lerner who, while not claiming to be Frankists, nevertheless promote "Frankist doctrine" while attempting to portray themselves as Jews.
Considering the permanent damage inflicted on our people which has resulted from otherwise sane and normal Jews becoming convinced that one of their spiritual leaders was the heralded Moshiach, isn't there great danger in Jews constantly looking for the "signs" of proof in their leaders? Just recently we witnessed the Lubavitcher Movement ascribing Moshiach status to their deceased Rebbe -- so much so that a schism resulted splitting the movement between those still believing him to be Moshiach vs those who do not.
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these low lifes are evil traitors that shouldnt be allowed to publicly burn the Israeli flag in American cities...what a disgrace!
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I wish i had a pair of my pliers and was there i would pull their beards and peyos out with my pliers and set their feet on fire so they could jump better while they dance
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-Any significance to the fact that David's ancestor Ruth was a Moabite convert and not originally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel?
Significance in what way do you mean?
Re: "...the Talmud states that it will be before the Hebrew year 6000. (The Hebrew year at the date of this publication is 5763.)"
From what basis does Talmud arrive at this scheduled time period?
And...if Hebrew year 6000 passes with no Moshiach, would Talmud be then relegated to the classification of 'interesting reading, but mere speculation ' in terms of the many conclusions offered in its arguments based on Talmudic logic?
Absolutely not.
First off, I do not agree with the Chabad website's assertion here that the Talmud is predicting the date of arrival for moshiach. Far from it. That source is a midrashic statement in Sanhedrin describing the history of mankind, and the third of 3 periods described there is the Messianic Era (which we're already in for a long time according to that "calculation" if it was one). It is not an exact dating or calculation, nor do we make such predictions. The Rambam says explicitly that it is forbidden to speculate about the date of the moshiach's arrival. In my opinion, this is just another example of Judaism being "dumbed down" for the masses by taking a complex and deeply meaningful piece of aggadata and boiling it down to a simple one-liner "statement of fact" which was never intended by its authors and which ultimately erases the entire point of the recording of this midrash. The authors, chazal, understood that the wisest of men would comprehend the deep meanings, but in the "marketing" of Judaism, often those who are supposed to understand deep concepts (and teach them) actually gift-wrap them in simplistic ways and proliferate misunderstanding among the masses.
The Talmud is the authentic tradition of authority/interpretation and practice of religious Judaism as handed down from Moshe to the Elders and Joshua to the Prophets to the Men of the Great Assembly and finally to the compilers and redactors of the Talmud which elaborated on this tradition, ordered it and lastly put it in writing - these latter men are known as Chazal - ie the sages of blessed memory. There is no question to its relevance and authority as the underpinnings of Judaism's continuation from the seminal event at Mt. Sinai. There is no "proof test" for the Talmud, nor is it a monolithic text. It represents the Jewish experts' discussion of national, communal, and individual religious issues in light of G-d's Torah which the Jews were given on Sinai and its commandments contained therein, along with the precedent of prior rulings of the chachamim and scholars of the past (including previous Sanhedrins which established unified custom and rulings in many areas), which were transmitted and passed on to the Talmudic sages.
So the question of "what if in 6000 years... etc" does not even begin.
- The Shabtai Tzvi incident resulted in a historical fiasco ...
Considering the permanent damage inflicted on our people which has resulted from otherwise sane and normal Jews becoming convinced that one of their spiritual leaders was the heralded Moshiach, isn't there great danger in Jews constantly looking for the "signs" of proof in their leaders? Just recently we witnessed the Lubavitcher Movement ascribing Moshiach status to their deceased Rebbe -- so much so that a schism resulted splitting the movement between those still believing him to be Moshiach vs those who do not.
Rambam says explicitly the Messiah will not do miracles. So I don't understand why people look for signs and wonders from leaders.
The "proof" of being the Messiah is only after-the-fact. Once a third temple is built, the wars against our enemies have been fought, and the king who did these things will also be loyal to Torah and encouraging its observance nationally. Once we see that these things have occurred, we can naturally say, King ____ is the messiah. At that point, what changes? He gets a special annointing ceremony (he's already been annointed king/nasi prior to these things)? There is no inherent "danger" in these ideas. Ultimately, it is Messianic Era which is far more important and the real definition according to Rambam, than a particular person who does particular things.
The Messianic Era is characterized by man's great liberation from political persecution, which is utilized to create an ethical society, and from the foundation of that ethical society, man is free to devote himself to spiritual pursuit - man's ultimate activity. That is what "messiah" or messianic times is all about. As you can see, this notion divorced from its national, ethical component is indeed a magic-thinking/mystical-based heresy influenced by concepts of other foreign religions.
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Neturei Karta need to stop doing this nonsense. They must be receiving pay from the Iranians to do this. They are a disgrace to the Satmar.
Also a message to posters here. Please please do not attack the Haredim. There are a great many secular Jews that behave in a similar abominable way towards Israel. These are much more dangerous and influential than a tiny extremist band of Haredim.
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-Any significance to the fact that David's ancestor Ruth was a Moabite convert and not originally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel?
Significance in what way do you mean?
Re: "...the Talmud states that it will be before the Hebrew year 6000. (The Hebrew year at the date of this publication is 5763.)"
From what basis does Talmud arrive at this scheduled time period?
And...if Hebrew year 6000 passes with no Moshiach, would Talmud be then relegated to the classification of 'interesting reading, but mere speculation ' in terms of the many conclusions offered in its arguments based on Talmudic logic?
Absolutely not.
First off, I do not agree with the Chabad website's assertion here that the Talmud is predicting the date of arrival for moshiach. Far from it. That source is a midrashic statement in Sanhedrin describing the history of mankind, and the third of 3 periods described there is the Messianic Era (which we're already in for a long time according to that "calculation" if it was one). It is not an exact dating or calculation, nor do we make such predictions. The Rambam says explicitly that it is forbidden to speculate about the date of the moshiach's arrival. In my opinion, this is just another example of Judaism being "dumbed down" for the masses by taking a complex and deeply meaningful piece of aggadata and boiling it down to a simple one-liner "statement of fact" which was never intended by its authors and which ultimately erases the entire point of the recording of this midrash. The authors, chazal, understood that the wisest of men would comprehend the deep meanings, but in the "marketing" of Judaism, often those who are supposed to understand deep concepts (and teach them) actually gift-wrap them in simplistic ways and proliferate misunderstanding among the masses.
The Talmud is the authentic tradition of authority/interpretation and practice of religious Judaism as handed down from Moshe to the Elders and Joshua to the Prophets to the Men of the Great Assembly and finally to the compilers and redactors of the Talmud which elaborated on this tradition, ordered it and lastly put it in writing - these latter men are known as Chazal - ie the sages of blessed memory. There is no question to its relevance and authority as the underpinnings of Judaism's continuation from the seminal event at Mt. Sinai. There is no "proof test" for the Talmud, nor is it a monolithic text. It represents the Jewish experts' discussion of national, communal, and individual religious issues in light of G-d's Torah which the Jews were given on Sinai and its commandments contained therein, along with the precedent of prior rulings of the chachamim and scholars of the past (including previous Sanhedrins which established unified custom and rulings in many areas), which were transmitted and passed on to the Talmudic sages.
So the question of "what if in 6000 years... etc" does not even begin.
- The Shabtai Tzvi incident resulted in a historical fiasco ...
Considering the permanent damage inflicted on our people which has resulted from otherwise sane and normal Jews becoming convinced that one of their spiritual leaders was the heralded Moshiach, isn't there great danger in Jews constantly looking for the "signs" of proof in their leaders? Just recently we witnessed the Lubavitcher Movement ascribing Moshiach status to their deceased Rebbe -- so much so that a schism resulted splitting the movement between those still believing him to be Moshiach vs those who do not.
Rambam says explicitly the Messiah will not do miracles. So I don't understand why people look for signs and wonders from leaders.
The "proof" of being the Messiah is only after-the-fact. Once a third temple is built, the wars against our enemies have been fought, and the king who did these things will also be loyal to Torah and encouraging its observance nationally. Once we see that these things have occurred, we can naturally say, King ____ is the messiah. At that point, what changes? He gets a special annointing ceremony (he's already been annointed king/nasi prior to these things)? There is no inherent "danger" in these ideas. Ultimately, it is Messianic Era which is far more important and the real definition according to Rambam, than a particular person who does particular things.
The Messianic Era is characterized by man's great liberation from political persecution, which is utilized to create an ethical society, and from the foundation of that ethical society, man is free to devote himself to spiritual pursuit - man's ultimate activity. That is what "messiah" or messianic times is all about. As you can see, this notion divorced from its national, ethical component is indeed a magic-thinking/mystical-based heresy influenced by concepts of other foreign religions.
I read Rambam's speculations on Moschiah last month or so. Good assessment. :)
I wish I could remember what website I read the Rambam on because I didn't get a chance to read Nachmanides counter points; have you seen an online examination of his?
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Thank you for your succinct and knowledgeable reply to my questions! :)
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NK is a small sect, there are few of them compared to the entire black suit wearing Jew world. The NK will always get lots of press because their dress, and the fact that antisemites love auto-antisemites.
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I've been made more curious about the black suits many Jews wear. Below are a few articles I enjoyed, but 1st a joke.
So the story is told of the Jewish woman who meets a man on a train. The man wears a black hat and black suit. A “secular” Jew, she berates the man and says: “You orthodox Jews embarrass us all. Your clothes and beard cause anti-Jewish hatred.”
“I am not Jewish,” says the man. “I am Amish and we wear black clothes and beards. It is our tradition.”
“Of course,” says the Jewish secularist. “You have every right to wear such clothes and you are to be commended for carrying on your cultural tradition.”
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160970/jewish/Why-the-Jacket-and-Black-Hat.htm
^"Why the jacket and black hat?" [to be true individuals]
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3186/jewish/Why-the-Long-Black-Coat.htm
^"Why the long black coat?" [respect]
http://jbuff.com/c010804.htm
"Jewish clothing"
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In addition Jews have a long history with the tailor business. My one of my family's businesses in Germany was that of a tailor.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=15&letter=O#50
http://books.google.com/books?id=uIfyhjxw6mAC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=Jewish+tailor+professions+limited&source=bl&ots=8Xx_yFUEUc&sig=Tz4-T-b5ibI9j58ksLTWVf-MIAg&hl=en&ei=AgUYTIP1No3ANq39mc8L&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20tailor%20professions%20limited&f=false
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Disgusting beyond all words and these "Jews" will burn in hell forever for this. :'(
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Thank you for your succinct and knowledgeable reply to my questions! :)
You're very welcome, I hope I got it all right, but that's to the best of my understanding/knowledge at this point.