JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TruthSpreader on March 15, 2011, 10:15:40 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzvCjLgcvdE
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בס''ד
Great work Wandering Samurai!
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Great video and commentary 5 stars
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G-d did what he did in Japan b/c the Japanese govt are Israel haters. Japan was really hatefilled towards Gds holy land; Israel, and even that SAME day, right before the quake, they were 'deploring' the Israeli settlements.
Haiti did the same thing, America did the same thing in the Gush Katif and we got paid back with Katrina.
It rains on the just and the unjust.
My PERSONAL conviction is that I feel for the people in Japan who were not evil.
I do not rejoice in this, I wish they would not have chosen to send billions to p-stine. Maybe they will have learned. Who knows...
But, G-d is not going to be mocked. Israel is Gds holy land, and its too bad if the world does not like it.
I agree that to question there is an 'existence' of G-d AFTER something like this happened IS insanity.
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G-d did what he did in Japan b/c the Japanese govt are Israel haters. Japan was really hatefilled towards Gds holy land; Israel, and even that SAME day, right before the quake, they were 'deploring' the Israeli settlements.
Haiti did the same thing, America did the same thing in the Gush Katif and we got paid back with Katrina.
It rains on the just and the unjust.
My PERSONAL conviction is that I feel for the people in Japan who were not evil.
I do not rejoice in this, I wish they would not have chosen to send billions to p-stine. Maybe they will have learned. Who knows...
But, G-d is not going to be mocked. Israel is Gds holy land, and its too bad if the world does not like it.
I agree that to question there is an 'existence' of G-d AFTER something like this happened IS insanity.
Come on, the earthquake in Japan happened because of the motion of tectonic plates and the geophysics of the Japanese island, not because of the Japanese government's stance over Israel...
If G-d were to punish every nation that hates Israel, then why are there so many nations that are prosperous and safe although they hate Israel much more than Japan does ?
I fail to see how Japan's earthquake is indisputable proof of the existence of G-d. This is a natural phenomenon that is accurately explained by science, without the need to resort to miraculous or supernatural interventions.
There are NO indisputable proofs of the existence of G-d anyway, it is a matter of FAITH. G-d tests our faith by making His existence uncertain and questionable to our limited minds.
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Come on, the earthquake in Japan happened because of the motion of tectonic plates and the geophysics of the Japanese island, not because of the Japanese government's stance over Israel...
If G-d were to punish every nation that hates Israel, then why are there so many nations that are prosperous and safe although they hate Israel much more than Japan ?
I fail to see how Japan's earthquake is indisputable proof of the existence of G-d. This is a natural phenomenon that is accurately explained by science, without the need to resort to miraculous or supernatural interventions.
There are NO indisputable proofs of the existence of G-d anyway, it is a matter of FAITH. G-d tests our faith by making His existence uncertain and questionable to our limited minds.
Yaacov, I do have a speculation to this phenomena, but it's just a speculation.
First you need to open your mind and see it from the point of view chaim is seeing things and that it could be true also. First, why now why japan why this magnitude?
The only answer I can give as a fact is, yes, it's Gd. Now I'm going to speculate why.
Japan is not the only evil nation in the world and is not the most openly evil nation. There are more out there which are worse.
It's a fact that every nation watched and kept silent during the shoah. And if they werent watching then they were perpetrating it. After all this and the miracle of the israeli state , every world government encourages israeli suicide...its a fact. Every nation is evil today.
But why japan now and why this badly? Gd is angry at everybody for choosing the wrong side, is testing the world's free will by choosing japan for the first series of disasters to happen on the world...just like the 10 plagues in egypt.
Again, it's only speculation. I don't know what Gd really plans and thinks. I'm not a prophet.
But I know for sure that natural disasters are a of Gd testing or punishing us. I know every nation in the world is evil to what they either allow or perpetrate against the jews.
stay tuned to my ask jtf question.
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Yakov, God is going to punish every single nation in this world, America inc for their hatred of Israel. Refute the Gush Katif.
I do not believe that you are supposed to 'rejoice' in the destruction of fellow man, and I stand with that.
You cannot tell me that this is all just 'coincidence'. sorry, MY God is the God that parted the Sea. MY God is the God that WILL destroy EVERY nation that hurts his people and his land.
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February 28, 2011:
Japan signs $32.5 million agreement for treating waste water in Jericho; has given Palestinian Authority more than $1.1 billion since their establishment
Dr Fayyad and Naofumi Hashimoto, representative of Japan to the PNA, signed a $32.5 million agreement for the project of treating the waste water in Jericho.
Dr Fayyad pointed out that this important, vital, and strategic project falls under the PNA's plan that aims at the establishment of the institutions of the state of Palestine and its infrastructure. It also comes in concordance with the strategy set by the Japanese Government to support the PNA in the fields of development, improvement of the infrastructure, and enhancement of the ability of the PNA to offer services not only in terms of infrastructure, but in diverse social, educational, and other domains. He said: "Ever since its establishment, Japan has offered the PNA more than $1.1 billion."
He added: "I single out the interest of the Japanese Government in executing projects in Jericho and in the Jordan Valley, where it implemented projects totalling $40 million, including roads, schools, and important vital utilities in this important area of our country in the Jordan Valley. We count on the implementation of more initiatives and projects that our people were deprived of because of the Israeli measures that aim at isolating this area."
January 11, 2011:
Japan condemns the demolishing of a part of the Shepherd’s Hotel in E. Jerusalem to construct housing for Jewish people
Japan condemns the demolishing of a part of the Shepherd’s Hotel in East Jerusalem with a view to constructing new housing units for Jewish people.
Japan does not recognize any unilateral measures that prejudge the final resolution on pre-1967 borders, nor does Japan recognize the annexation of East Jerusalem by Israel.
In this regard, Japan urges Israel to refrain from any unilateral act that could change the existing conditions of East Jerusalem.
Ambassador Yutaka Iimura, Special Envoy of the Government of Japan for the Middle East, who was in Israel, has already informed Israeli Government officials of Japanese views.
Japan once again strongly encourages both the Israel and the Palestinian sides to focus on the goal of a two-state solution, which is important not only for the Middle East but also for the international community as a whole; to act in such a way that mutual trust will be developed; and to continue efforts for peace tenaciously.
Japan-look what they did ON the day of their devastation:
March 11, 2010:
The Government of Japan deplores the decisions of Israel to construct housing in E. Jerusalem and in the West Bank
The Government of Japan deplores the decisions of the Government of Israel to give permission for the construction of 1,600 housing units in East Jerusalem in addition to 112 units in West Bank just after the Israeli and Palestinian leadership’s acceptance of the start of indirect talks.
The Government of Japan does not recognize any act that prejudges the final status of Jerusalem and the territories in the pre-1967 borders
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And look at this despicile act of the Japanese government: "Occupied p-stinian territory?' Where is there a p-stine? WHERE? There is NO state called p-stine. They were helping a NON state that ALLOWS these SICK muZlims MURDER Jewish families. MURDER, BRUTALLY MURDER!!! Guilt by association. I feel for the PEOPLE of Japan, but this is SICK how they were pushing Israel, and God has had ENOUGH. "Prophet?" Nobody needs a prophet to see that this has happened throughout ancient times when the Jews came back into their land, and God has smitten ALL of their enemies, time and time again. God is NOT a Liberal, that changed like the wind.
March 8, 2011:
Japan Increases Food Support to Palestinian People
HEBRON, March 8, 2011 (WAFA) – A hand-over ceremony today between Japan and the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) marks Japan’s continued commitment to provide food assistance to the poorest of the poor in the West Bank, occupied Palestinian territory.
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Great posts, ashe. I had no idea of these things about the japanese govt.
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Great find, AsheDina!
Interestingly, like you expressed, the massive earthquake happened shortly after the hideous actions of Japan's government.
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AsheDina, Dr Dan, Ebb,
There is no question that I love Israel, that I support Chaim's agenda for Israel's survival, and on top of that I think Chaim is an extraordinary personality and I like him very much. That is why I want to be part of this organization. I have sent money, I have worked on English subtitles for Hebrew videos, I spend time publicizing JTF, so I am committed here.
But because you love Israel and the Jewish people doesn't mean you have to assume that everything that happens in this world revolves around Israel. I think one has to draw the line between faith and superstition. In my opinion, to interpret the occurrence of any catastrophe as a divine punishment for not supporting Israel, althoug there are clear and precise scientific explanations for it which have nothing to do with Israel, amounts to superstition.
My general approach to distinguish what is true and what is false is to make as few assumptions or unverifiable claims as possible and to rely on empirical evidence and sound logic, because otherwise I might make up all sorts of tales and convince myself that they are true although they are only the product of my imagination. It doesn't mean that I can't have faith. Actually, I tend to believe in a world to come where there is true justice because it’s hard for me to figure out how life would make sense otherwise. But I am also wary of deluding myself. Just because you want some things to be true doesn’t mean they are true. When there is uncertainty, I admit it instead of denying it, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable.
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You are entitled to this point of view because it is a logical one.
However there are times where the superstition as you call it is even more logical than the one you gave.
With japan, because they aren't muslim nazis, I can see ourselves think, "no this can't be; they aren't muslim nazis. Oh then Gd didn't do it. It was in the wrong place at the wrong time." I mean how many times do we say this? How many times do we say, "why me? Why now?"
Answer: because Gd wanted it to be that way.
But why?
We are not prophets. We can't know what Gd thinks. We might speculate and deduce and use historical and biblical logic. We don't know what Gd thinks. None of us really know.
And I think you are wrong in one point where your logic is flawed. The world DOES revolve around the torah and the jewish people. Oh it does. And I even knew this before I ever heard of jtf and meir kahane. Oh big time! The world was created as a result of Gd's torah. Anything that happens or will happen can be explained more logically by the torah than in any scientific mind. Just because it's not logical to you doesn't mean it can't be. Yaacov, the world does not revolve around just you. Everything revolves around each other just like heavenly galaxies do. what holds it in place is Gd and His torah.
And never forget this historical logic:
"i blesseth those who bless you and curseth those who curse you."
AsheDina, Dr Dan, Ebb,
There is no question that I love Israel, that I support Chaim's agenda for Israel's survival, and on top of that I think Chaim is an extraordinary personality I like him very much. That is why I want to be part of this organization. I have sent money, I have worked on English subtitles for Hebrew videos, I spend time publicizing JTF, so I am committed here.
But because you love Israel and the Jewish people doesn't mean you have to assume that everything that happens in this world revolves around Israel. I think one has to draw the line between faith and superstition. In my opinion, to interpret the occurrence of any catastrophe as a divine punishment for not supporting Israel, althoug there are clear and precise scientific explanations for it which have nothing to do with Israel, amounts to superstition.
My general approach to distinguish what is true and what is false is to make as few assumptions or unverifiable claims as possible and to rely on empirical evidence and sound logic, because otherwise I might make up all sorts of tales and convince myself that they are true although they are only the product of my imagination. It doesn't mean that I can't have faith. Actually, I tend to believe in a world to come where there is true justice because it’s hard for me to figure out how life would make sense otherwise. But I am also wary of deluding myself. Just because you want some things to be true doesn’t mean they are true. When there is uncertainty, I admit it instead of denying it, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable.
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You are entitled to this point of view because it is a logical one.
However there are times where the superstition as you call it is even more logical than the one you gave.
With japan, because they aren't muslim nazis, I can see ourselves think, "no this can't be; they aren't muslim nazis. Oh then Gd didn't do it. It was in the wrong place at the wrong time." I mean how many times do we say this? How many times do we say, "why me? Why now?"
Answer: because Gd wanted it to be that way.
But why?
We are not prophets. We can't know what Gd thinks. We might speculate and deduce and use historical and biblical logic. We don't know what Gd thinks. None of us really know.
And I think you are wrong in one point where your logic is flawed. The world DOES revolve around the torah and the jewish people. Oh it does. And I even knew this before I ever heard of jtf and meir kahane. Oh big time! The world was created as a result of Gd's torah. Anything that happens or will happen can be explained more logically by the torah than in any scientific mind. Just because it's not logical to you doesn't mean it can't be. Yaacov, the world does not revolve around just you. Everything revolves around each other just like heavenly galaxies do. what holds it in place is Gd and His torah.
And never forget this historical logic:
"i blesseth those who bless you and curseth those who curse you."
Dr Dan,
I am aware that science has its own limitations. There are crucial questions to which it is not fit to give answers. But what do you mean when you say that anything that happens or will happen can be explained more logically by the torah than by science ? Actually, there are many dimensions of reality that are understood more clearly and more precisely by following a scientific approach rather than a religious one. Maybe I don't get your point, but I suppose you agree that physics is better suited to explain natural phenomena, or that medicine is more appropriate to explain how the human body works. In my view, there is no competition between the Torah and science. They simply do not address the same questions.
Also, you make it sound like I express a subjective point of view whereby I apply my own personal criteria to decide whether something is logical. But it is the opposite. What I am saying is that it is difficult to know whether something is true if it cannot be verified, either through inference or through experimentation.
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Dr Dan,
I am aware that science has its own limitations. There are crucial questions to which it is not fit to give answers. But what do you mean when you say that anything that happens or will happen can be explained more logically by the torah than by science ? Actually, there are many dimensions of reality that are understood more clearly and more precisely by following a scientific approach rather than a religious one. Maybe I don't get your point, but I suppose you agree that physics is better suited to explain natural phenomena, or that medicine is more appropriate to explain how the human body works. In my view, there is no competition between the Torah and science. They simply do not address the same questions.
Also, you make it sound like I express a subjective point of view whereby I apply my own personal criteria to decide whether something is logical. But it is the opposite. What I am saying is that it is difficult to know whether something is true if it cannot be verified, either through inference or through experimentation.
Actually, it's funny you posted this reply because as I was rereading what I had written to you, it sounded as if I completed discounted science.
You're right, the Torah is not a science book. And a level minded person should know this.
I hope you understand that I know that earthquakes and volcanoes are an earthly phenomena. It's the why and when that I speak about.
The same is true when people die or get sick. We know the causes. We know the cures are mostly in part with medicine (and a prayer). But what we don't know is the why and when. We just know that Gd means it to be at that time and at that place with that person or those people.
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Actually, it's funny you posted this reply because as I was rereading what I had written to you, it sounded as if I completed discounted science.
You're right, the Torah is not a science book. And a level minded person should know this.
I hope you understand that I know that earthquakes and volcanoes are an earthly phenomena. It's the why and when that I speak about.
The same is true when people die or get sick. We know the causes. We know the cures are mostly in part with medicine (and a prayer). But what we don't know is the why and when. We just know that Gd means it to be at that time and at that place with that person or those people.
The "why" and "when" are big philosophical issues...
My view on this, broadly speaking, is that everything that occurs has a "reason" in the following sense : various chains of causes and consequences combine to trigger an outcome. But I am not sure one can argue that there is necessarily an intention or a will behind each combination of causes because the various chains of causes and consequences may be independent one from another. "Chance" or random outcomes emerge when independent chains of causes and consequences collide.
Since this is a fascinating - and difficult - topic, and I don't have much time right now, I think I'll get back to you later on this...
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I don't blame the Japanese of Today but I do learn from history that the Japanese fought to the last for their dictatorial regime. In 1945, they did everything they could to stop the Vastly Superior U.S. And British Military at Okinawa. 12,500 American Troops were killed just at Okinawa which lasted 2 months.
Many Japanese Soldiers chose to charge with bayonets and thousands were gunned down by Machine Gunners of the Americans and the British. They even sank about 30 Allied ships with Kamikaze attacks (Suicide Pilots).
They were so desperate that even the Germans never did that against the Soviets at Seelow Heights and at Berlin.
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I don't like some things about Japanese culture but for the most part I think they are decent people and I feel terrible that this happened to them.
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I don't like some things about Japanese culture but for the most part I think they are decent people and I feel terrible that this happened to them.
I am not 'happy' that this happened at all, Ruby. I stated that in my other thread. People are going to believe how they believe, however.
I do feel terrible that this happened and a country was wiped away. But look how their government treated Gds holy land.
The same fate is awaiting us here now. So, of course I feel terrible for the Japanese people, because its coming here too and we will suffer for what our government will do to Israel.
This is why I believe it is totally inexcusable for men right now to keep allowing these evil leaders to reign.
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AsheDina, Dr Dan, Ebb,
There is no question that I love Israel, that I support Chaim's agenda for Israel's survival, and on top of that I think Chaim is an extraordinary personality and I like him very much. That is why I want to be part of this organization. I have sent money, I have worked on English subtitles for Hebrew videos, I spend time publicizing JTF, so I am committed here.
But because you love Israel and the Jewish people doesn't mean you have to assume that everything that happens in this world revolves around Israel. I think one has to draw the line between faith and superstition. In my opinion, to interpret the occurrence of any catastrophe as a divine punishment for not supporting Israel, althoug there are clear and precise scientific explanations for it which have nothing to do with Israel, amounts to superstition.
My general approach to distinguish what is true and what is false is to make as few assumptions or unverifiable claims as possible and to rely on empirical evidence and sound logic, because otherwise I might make up all sorts of tales and convince myself that they are true although they are only the product of my imagination. It doesn't mean that I can't have faith. Actually, I tend to believe in a world to come where there is true justice because it’s hard for me to figure out how life would make sense otherwise. But I am also wary of deluding myself. Just because you want some things to be true doesn’t mean they are true. When there is uncertainty, I admit it instead of denying it, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable.
You can believe how you believe, Yakov, but Japan got what it got because they were pushing G-D. Sorry, that is just how I believe and I cant change that.
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I am not 'happy' that this happened at all, Ruby. I stated that in my other thread. People are going to believe how they believe, however.
I do feel terrible that this happened and a country was wiped away. But look how their government treated Gds holy land.
The same fate is awaiting us here now. So, of course I feel terrible for the Japanese people, because its coming here too and we will suffer for what our government will do to Israel.
This is why I believe it is totally inexcusable for men right now to keep allowing these evil leaders to reign.
I also think a lot of judgment is coming to this nation for the things it's done. 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, and the BP oil disaster were three major things that happened and I think there is a lot more to come.
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AsheDina, Dr Dan, Ebb,
There is no question that I love Israel, that I support Chaim's agenda for Israel's survival, and on top of that I think Chaim is an extraordinary personality and I like him very much. That is why I want to be part of this organization. I have sent money, I have worked on English subtitles for Hebrew videos, I spend time publicizing JTF, so I am committed here.
But because you love Israel and the Jewish people doesn't mean you have to assume that everything that happens in this world revolves around Israel. I think one has to draw the line between faith and superstition. In my opinion, to interpret the occurrence of any catastrophe as a divine punishment for not supporting Israel, althoug there are clear and precise scientific explanations for it which have nothing to do with Israel, amounts to superstition.
My general approach to distinguish what is true and what is false is to make as few assumptions or unverifiable claims as possible and to rely on empirical evidence and sound logic, because otherwise I might make up all sorts of tales and convince myself that they are true although they are only the product of my imagination. It doesn't mean that I can't have faith. Actually, I tend to believe in a world to come where there is true justice because it’s hard for me to figure out how life would make sense otherwise. But I am also wary of deluding myself. Just because you want some things to be true doesn’t mean they are true. When there is uncertainty, I admit it instead of denying it, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable.
Yaakov Mendel, first it's important for me to express that I greatly appreciate your efforts with JTF.
In an organization, there are going to be differences of opinions at times, as in this case.
While I agree with the vast majority of JTF's platform, there are some issues that I either somewhat disagree or I'm not sure of the answer. There's no one person who I agree with 100 % across the board.
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The "why" and "when" are big philosophical issues...
My view on this, broadly speaking, is that everything that occurs has a "reason" in the following sense : various chains of causes and consequences combine to trigger an outcome. But I am not sure one can argue that there is necessarily an intention or a will behind each combination of causes because the various chains of causes and consequences may be independent one from another. "Chance" or random outcomes emerge when independent chains of causes and consequences collide.
Since this is a fascinating - and difficult - topic, and I don't have much time right now, I think I'll get back to you later on this...
Again I hear what you are saying and you are entitled to this point of view. For me, I think everything happens for a reason for the greater good. I look at it from the perspective of my personal life. Here's an example. I studied really hard to try and get into medical school, but I would keep doing poorly on the MCATs...My grades were great, but just couldn't pull it off and I didn't know what to do. Except I realized that perhaps dentistry was for me...and guess what, I like it and I succeed in it. My life is awesome. I can live a good life and love what I do...and I'm sure if Gd wasn't there to interevene in keeping me away from medicine, I don't think I would have enjoyed my life today.
Here's another example.... 15 years ago, there was a fallout between my family and my cousins' families. We were all very close and then suddenly, all down the drain. I was really hurt by this...but these 15 years apart from them, actually did me a lot of good. I became a stronger person and a better person because of it..even to the point that today, I have forgiven and forgotten water under the bridge...only because I believe that if it hadn't happen, I wouldn't be the person I am today...and I love who I am. To make a long story short, we have made our peace with each other.
So, my point is that if there is a disaster, we can ask and cry, "why oh why oh why!" Except, the reality is that whatever it is, it was meant to be and Gd did it for a reason...what the reason is...well we can just speculate and see later on if it is a correct speculation.
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Chaim's response here is really very good... I myself have always disliked Japan... While it is sad to see the destruction and loss of life I really don't feel sorry for them... During the 70's and early 80's when America's economy was in very bad shape Japan was riding high on the hog very much like China is doing today... During them years Japan never missed an opportunity to berate the United States as a country who's industry was tired and it's best days were behind it... They actually had a good deal of Americans convinced that this was actually the case... America rehabilitated Japan after WW2 and Japan had cheap labor which was something that was very attractive to large companies looking to produce large amounts of product at lower costs.... Many of the major electronics companies that Japan prides itself on are offshoots of American companies such as RCA Victor (Japan Victor Corporation) JVC, Emerson Radio Corporation and quite a few others... Companies like this gave Japan its head start which helped it dominate the consumer electronics industry... Japan never speaks of the fact that for many years they were only the assemblers of products like this not their designers... In the car industry Toyota and some of the others had a few things going for them that made it easy for them to sell cars... The cars were very inexpensive and since they were small and simple they gave less problems then the American cars of the day back then... Here again cheap labor helped over the years by allowing companies like Toyota to put more money into R&D... Today companies like Hyundai are giving the Japs a taste of their own medicine... Now in order to to compete Toyota had to get into the large car market and have fallen into the same ills that they roundly made fun of GM, Ford and Chrysler for having... The multi millions of cars they have had to recall in the past year (something they tried to suppress since 2005) goes to show what a farce their "Toyota Way" business model really is... While Japan could not prevent the quake they could have prevented the disaster thats now going on in their power industry... The decision to keep the plants on line after the quake to avoid rolling blackouts in other parts of Japan was nothing short of lunacy.. The plants survived the quake it was only a after the flood waters flooded the backup power plant that problems started... I guess here again the Japs felt they were untouchable... Now as is mostly the case with them they are not telling the truth as to the extent of the problem... The proof of this is the cloud of contamination that is covering a good part of the Pacific.
This really sum's it up,
Jeremiah 49:16 The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks, who occupy the heights of the hill. Though you build your nest as high as the eagle's, from there I will bring you down," declares the LORD.
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What a fantastic video
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You can believe how you believe, Yakov, but Japan got what it got because they were pushing G-D. Sorry, that is just how I believe and I cant change that.
Fine, I don't take issue with you for that, I was only explaining my point of view. As long as you essentially support Chaim's agenda for the survival of Israel and the Jewish people, then whatever differences we have on other topics don't matter much to me here...
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Yaakov Mendel, first it's important for me to express that I greatly appreciate your efforts with JTF.
In an organization, there are going to be differences of opinions at times, as in this case.
While I agree with the vast majority of JTF's platform, there are some issues that I either somewhat disagree or I'm not sure of the answer. There's no one person who I agree with 100 % across the board.
Thank you, Ebb. I completely agree with what you say here. By the way, without those individual differences, JTF wouldn't be such a great place to debate. We are the opposite of a Bolshevik organization. What matters most is that we all basically agree on all the main issues regarding Islam, the survival of Israel, of the Jewish people and of Western civilization. That's what gives us a strong unity beyond our differences.
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I agree with AsheDina and cjd.
Zechariah 12:2
"Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.
Zechariah 12:3
"It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.
New Zealand also allowed Saudi royal family to purchase lands in New Zealand
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I agree with AsheDina and cjd.
Zechariah 12:2
"Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.
Zechariah 12:3
"It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.
New Zealand also allowed Saudi royal family to purchase lands in New Zealand
I am FOR the Japanese PEOPLE. But CZ is 100% right with the scriptures.
What happened in WW2, imo is OVER. They became our friends and copied everything we did.
The Japanese people are suffering b/c of BAD GOVERNMENT. We need to consider ourselves HERE in America, b/c G-d is going to judge America for OUR GOVERNMENT.
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I am FOR the Japanese PEOPLE. But CZ is 100% right with the scriptures.
What happened in WW2, imo is OVER. They became our friends and copied everything we did.
The Japanese people are suffering b/c of BAD GOVERNMENT. We need to consider ourselves HERE in America, b/c G-d is going to judge America for OUR GOVERNMENT.
BTW - Do we hate England because of the Revolutionary War? :::D
The PEOPLE of Japan, I totally feel for and nobody is going to change this. As well as NOBODY is going to change how I feel that God will JUDGE the nations SEVERELY for hurting HIS land. Period. I like Yakov, and he has his way of thinking.
I have mine, based on 3000 yr old scripture and evidence.
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Since it was my comment that provoked Chaim's rage, I should probably say something. I made this comment in all innocence. This is how I felt, and I expressed my feelings. Can feelings be wrong? Some people I feel sorry for, other people I don't feel sorry for. The way I feel about this is that the war was a long time ago. There are many many nations at this very moment that are much worse than the Japanese today. By the way, I didn't know that Japan was against Israel. That's very bad. But are they more rabidly anti-Israel than many other countries? I would guess not.
Going back to the war. Italy and Romania were also Hitler's allies. Maybe if they hadn't been Hitler's allies, Holocaust wouldn't have happened (using the same logic). Yet nobody hates Italians and wishes evil on them. I myself love Italians, and I am not a Romanian hater either. If a disaster of a comparable size hit Italy, I would bet that everyone on the forum would feel very sorry for Italy, and nobody would say that This is G-d punishing them for WWII. Talking about atrocities during the war. Ukrainians locked Jews in Synagogues and put them on fire, burning the Jews alive. They also made raids of Polish villages and killed pregnant women, cutting their stomachs and throwing out fetuses. They killed babies by smashing their heads against the wall. The Poles and the Balts did exactly the same thing to the Jews. Where is their punishment? Where are their natural disasters? (By the way, Chernobyl doesn't count, since it wasn't a large enough disaster, and it didn't happen to West Ukrainians, who were the main culprits). Anyone who thinks that the Japanese were more savage and cruel during the war than people in Eastern Europe is very naive. Finally, there is a talk about an impending large-scale earthquake in California. I know there are swarms of crazy liberals in San Francisco, but are they crazier or more numerous than their counterparts in New York? How is it fair to kill liberals on the West Coast and leave those on the East Coast alive? My feeling is that we shouldn't jump to conclusions as to why something happened. The logic might be too-large-scaled for descrying a pattern.
And one more thing. Based on my understanding of Judaism, it is not morally wrong to have moments of doubt about the existence of G-d. It is normal, and it happens to many good people. Judaism stresses deeds, not thoughts.
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@Masha:
Japanese people are civilized. They are good people.
It is their GOVERNMENT, just like ours that is the Israel hater.
Just like USA; 68% America supports Israel, but I guarantee that American govt will give Israel a terrible time, sadly.
But, really, you must know that people always doubt Gds existense. Its a sign of being mortal. Anyway, thats all for me. I believe that G-d is totally angry with nations that are hurting Israel who is outnumbered in hostile land.
Look at gush Katif for ie.
My opinion:
People are STUPID in thinking that G-d is not involved in this.
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Masha also read my comment above..
I don't fault you for your point of you just like I don't fault Yaacov's point of view.
All I can say is that natural disasters are a test or punishment from Gd, but really no one here including Chaim is a prophet to know what Gd really thinks and why He does these things to certain nations at certain times.
Are we allowed to speculate? I think so...but I stress, they are only speculations. Mine is that Gd chose a less openly evil government nation to allow us to realize that this test or punishment on Japan can happen to any of us and that it is our free will which has to choose righteous causes and abandon evil causes that we currently follow.
As far as I'm concerned, I tremble for Hashem to be merciful and to save us and give us another opportunity to change for the better. Or even if He feels He needs to punish the evil our evil government, to spare good and innocent peoples' lives in the process unlike what we have seen in Japan and possibly other nations.
We need to pray each day and be humble and thank Gd for all the things we have that the Japanese lost from this disaster. This disaster on Japan is one signal to us not to bicker over petty things (and I'm pretty sure most of us only really bicker about important things anyway).
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Mine is that Gd chose a less openly evil government nation to allow us to realize that this test or punishment on Japan can happen to any of us and that it is our free will which has to choose righteous causes and abandon evil causes that we currently follow.
Maybe.
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"Pour out your wrath upon the nation that do not know you and upon the kingdoms that do not call upon your name. For they have devoured Yaacov{Jacob} and laid waste his dwelling place"
Tehillim/Psalms chapter 79 which Jews also recite at the Passover Seder.
Have the Japanese participated in the crimes mentioned in the quotation above? Yes!
Are there worse nations than Japan? Yes!
Why has Japan been singled out for this tragedy, I prefer not to speculate.
But to have complaints about G-d, for allowing such disasters to happen, I certainly won't do, for this goes against what we officially ask from G-d on the night of the Seder.
Is it possible that there were also good people among the victims? Yes. If the nation is judged as guilty, the innocent among them, might not always have enough merit to be protected from punishment declared upon the community. Especially this is true if they did not protest sufficiently against their society.