JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on June 07, 2012, 04:13:24 PM
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Rabbi Shafier explains that this weeks Parasha provides an answer to the question "Why does the world hate the Jews?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5YeodLNrXg
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11753#.T9EKton_6Yk
“When the Holy Ark would travel, Moshe would say, `Arise HASHEM, and let Your foes be scattered. Let those that hate You flee from before You.’” — Bamidbar 10:35
In this posuk, Moshe Rabbeinu is equating hatred of the Jews with hatred of HASHEM. “Let those that hate You flee from before You.”
Rashi is bothered by the comparison. Why does Moshe’s call the enemies of the Jews, “enemies of HASHEM?” Maybe they are just enemies of the Jewish people? Rashi answers, “Anyone who hates Yisroel hates HASHEM.” It seems clear that Rashi assumes that the root cause of anti-Semitism is hatred of G-d.
This concept of attributing hatred of Jews to hatred of HASHEM seems difficult to understand. After all, if we study history, we see many reasons that Jews were hated – and they had nothing to do with hating HASHEM.
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Michael Medved did a piece on the same topic.
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One other reason is that Jews back the schwartzes before they back their fellow Jews or fellow white people.
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One other reason is that Jews back the schwartzes before they back their fellow Jews or fellow white people.
That is your excuse... But they have hated Jews for much longer and for much deeper reasons..
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One other reason is that Jews back the schwartzes before they back their fellow Jews or fellow white people.
Yett the blacks hate Jews. Its always the Jews faulth. The Jews do good things for blacks they get blamed by some whites for it. This is just another baseless excuse.
Halacha Esav Sone Et Yakov.
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cool lesson
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I can think of two reasons:
1. Jews were talented bankers and benefited commerce of any country where they lived. They also benefited from their talents and that caused jealousy.
2. Second one is that Jews were interested in science when most of Europeans opposed scientific discoveries.
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It's in most peoples' nature to hate and be jealous. And the Jews are a pretty easy target to vent frustration on, so why not.
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I can think of two reasons:
1. Jews were talented bankers and benefited commerce of any country where they lived. They also benefited from their talents and that caused jealousy.
2. Second one is that Jews were interested in science when most of Europeans opposed scientific discoveries.
Jews were very poor in different times as well for example in Eastern Europe yett Jews were hated and dispised.
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As the Rabbi stated, and I have heard many times, there is NO REASON for antisemitism, only EXCUSES.
They hate us if we are poor, they hate us if we are rich, they hate us if we are Capitalist, they hate us if we are Communist, they hate us if we assimilate, they hate us if we are separate. There is no REASON for antisemitism.... Only EXCUSES..
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Jews were very poor in different times as well for example in Eastern Europe yett Jews were hated and dispised.
Never forget that Christians suffered greatly during communism as well. I never studied history of Jews in Eastern Europe. In Serbia Jews were well to do citizens, usually involved in trade (trade of salt for example).
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Never forget that Christians suffered greatly during communism as well. I never studied history of Jews in Eastern Europe. In Serbia Jews were well to do citizens, usually involved in trade (trade of salt for example).
I wasn't referring to Communism in particular, but to the excuse that Jews are hated because they were/are rich. Their are ans their were Jews that were poor (even before Communism) and yett were persecuted. If the excuse of Jews being rich and that is why they are hated is true, then shouldn't the Jews who were dirt poor be greatly loved instead?
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I wasn't referring to Communism in particular, but to the excuse that Jews are hated because they were/are rich. Their are ans their were Jews that were poor (even before Communism) and yett were persecuted. If the excuse of Jews being rich and that is why they are hated is true, then shouldn't the Jews who were dirt poor be greatly loved instead?
I was not giving excuses but my opinions and historic facts. I can't speak for others but I am not familiar with any anti Jewish riots in Serbia or something like that. In fact, many Serbs have Jewish names. (my grandfather grandfather for example.
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Aish.com has a good explanation of antisemitism:
http://www.aish.com/sem/wtj/82875542.html
http://www.aish.com/sem/wtj/82875402.html
The Six Common Reasons for anti-Semitism
Keep this distinction in mind as we explore the six most frequently offered reasons for anti-Semitism. As we touch upon each of these explanations, we will try to ascertain whether it is the cause of the hatred, or merely an excuse.
Historians and sociologists have come up with numerous theories to explain anti-Semitism. We will examine these one by one, and discuss the validity of each.
Economic: Jews are hated because they possess too much wealth and power.
Chosen People: Jews are hated because they arrogantly claim they are the chosen people.
Scapegoat: Jews are a convenient group to single out and blame for all the troubles.
Deicide: Jews are hated because they killed Jesus.
Outsiders: Jews are hated because they are different than the rest of society.
Racial Theory: Jews are hated because they are an inferior race.
Let us examine these six frequently-given reasons and determine if they are truly causes or excuses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2COCsedCw
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Let's stop kissing black tuchis and see if it helps. It couldn't hurt.
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More on Rashi's interpretation of this pasuk:
http://www.kby.org/english/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3829
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Never forget that Christians suffered greatly during communism as well. I never studied history of Jews in Eastern Europe. In Serbia Jews were well to do citizens, usually involved in trade (trade of salt for example).
Jews have gotten it the worst, and that's an understatement! Any group that has studied Torah has suffered, but it did bring one of the greatest free nations in the world, until the last 100 years!
The time is probably coming again! All I can say is bring it!
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Let's stop kissing black tuchis and see if it helps. It couldn't hurt.
This is not the cause of antisemitism. They hate us no matter what... That is the point of this lesson..
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This is not the cause of antisemitism. They hate us no matter what... That is the point of this lesson..
Fine. I agree. Let's stop it anyway.
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Fine. I agree. Let's stop it anyway.
I don't think any of the Jews here at JTF are kissing black tuchis... (and we are hated for this) But it is something which should cease...
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Its a pointless discussion to try to be liked by the 1.4 billion Muslims. They will always hate us, regardless if we are rich, poor, tall, short, smart, or dumb, clean or dirty.
However.... I would say that this 'hatred' is barely noticable here in the USA... with the exception of an occasional Nazi-fossil.. or IslamoMoron.... I don't go around ducking for cover in America.... but I realize that anything could change.
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Its a pointless discussion to try to be liked by the 1.4 billion Muslims. They will always hate us, regardless if we are rich, poor, tall, short, smart, or dumb, clean or dirty.
However.... I would say that this 'hatred' is barely noticable here in the USA... with the exception of an occasional Nazi-fossil.. or IslamoMoron.... I don't go around ducking for cover in America.... but I realize that anything could change.
As Rabbi Kahane said many times in his lectures... The only place in America to really know what the average American thinks about Jews is in the local Saloon/Bar.... Before I did Teshuva (back in 2003) I used to hang out at a little bar in town and believe me... once they get liquored up... they will start blabbing about how the Jews control everything...
http://kahane.blogspot.com/2008/10/rabbi-meir-kahanes-last-speech-urging.html
How to Gauge anti-Semitism: Go to a Bar
So in the bars, it sits the jealousy and the envy of the Jews which leads to hate. The tragedy as I’ve said a million times is that the average Jewish leader in this country has no idea what people say about Jews in bars, because the average Jew doesn’t go into a bar – and he should; he should be compelled to go into a bar. Every rabbi before getting “smicha”, before being ordained, should be compelled to go into a bar and find out what the real world is like. It isn’t a joke. I’m serious. To hide in some little ghetto, you never know what the world is. They hate us with a passion out there, with a virulence which is frightening to see and to hear. On every radio program I go on, I hear, “why should we give you guys three billion dollars a year”? Anytime some fellow from the Israeli consulate is asked that question, he comes up with the answer, “well, we help you too, etc.” Baloney! The only way to get rid of that question is to answer as I do, “I don’t want the money! I want Israel to be a free enterprise state and allow private enterprise to flourish and then we don’t want your money, I don’t want your charity.” So, that of course gets rid of the question, but it doesn’t get rid of the anti-Semite. He’ll go home mutter in his beer and pretzels. He’s still there. He’s still there.
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As Rabbi Kahane said many times in his lectures... The only place in America to really know what the average American thinks about Jews is in the local Saloon/Bar.... Before I did Teshuva (back in 2003) I used to hang out at a little bar in town and believe me... once they get liquored up... they will start blabbing about how the Jews control everything...
Trust me, you put a bunch of Jews in a bar, and we will start blabbing about the gentiles in a negative manner as well... but the stereotypes of course are different.... Trust me.... I was once drunk and I went on a tyrade about how much I hated catholics... and that they are covering up for molestors and their ideology about birth control is ruining the country.... In hind-sight, I wish I hadnt said those things.
But let me give you some antedoctal evidence here. In my area, I saw a guy driving around with HUGE letters on his car saying 'I LOVE BEING JEWISH' (he was part of a Jewish Fraternity and I live next to a university).... most of the people were honking and cheering for him..... and I REALLY doubt they were all Jewish.
Had he done this in the Ukraine.... there would be very few cheers and some angry name calling....
Had he done this in the Islamic world... he'd be gunned down in seconds....
Basically... I am trying to give you perspective here.
Religions will always be doing this sorta thing and the stereotypes will endure... this is human nature.... But here in the U.S.... I am noticing something going beyond tolerance.... its as if the gentiles are going out of their way to be supportive of Judaism/Israel to show that they are good Christians... unlike those accross the pond.... and especially unlike the Islamic filth. And 9/11 just re-enforced this.
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Trust me, you put a bunch of Jews in a bar, and we will start blabbing about the gentiles in a negative manner as well... but the stereotypes of course are different.... Trust me....
What :coffee: ???
You do not know American liberal Askenasi Jews. Unfortunatly you would more likly see them say how we Jews are not tolerant enough towards gentiles instead of what you said. Maybe on the other hand you would more likly hear from Sefardim stereotypes against Arabs/Muslims but I never heard things nagative agains't Christian or other gentiles. (except individuals like Obama, but whatever he is probably a Muslims soo that too don't count).
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America, the first prosemitic country. and with any luck, Israel will soon become the second when kahanists take the media there away from the traitors
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What :coffee: ???
You do not know American liberal Askenasi Jews. Unfortunatly you would more likly see them say how we Jews are not tolerant enough towards gentiles instead of what you said. Maybe on the other hand you would more likly hear from Sefardim stereotypes against Arabs/Muslims but I never heard things nagative agains't Christian or other gentiles. (except individuals like Obama, but whatever he is probably a Muslims soo that too don't count).
Ummm... My whole family are LEFTIST Askenasi Jews..... They are EXTREMELY leftist... I am a bit of an expert on the subject. And YES, they do complain about religous gentiles.... They complain about gentiles 1000x more than they complain about Muslims... They are INCAPABLE of saying anything negative about anybody other than whites, religious Jews, and religious Christians.
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Ummm... My whole family are LEFTIST Askenasi Jews..... They are EXTREMELY leftist... I am a bit of an expert on the subject. And YES, they do complain about religous gentiles.... They complain about gentiles 1000x more than they complain about Muslims... They are INCAPABLE of saying anything negative about anybody other than whites, religious Jews, and religious Christians.
I agree with Tag on this one.. Although I do believe your experience. My mother is a prime example of an ex-leftist non-religious Jew... But she never speaks negative about gentiles.... And most of my community are centrist and seldom do they speak negative about non-Jews.
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I agree with Tag on this one.. Although I do believe your experience. My mother is a prime example of an ex-leftist non-religious Jew... But she never speaks negative about gentiles.... And most of my community are centrist and seldom do they speak negative about non-Jews.
They ARE more tolerant to Christianity than Judiasm... no question..... but this election season they have been BRUTAL about conservative Christians.... they kept brinking up Opus Dei when talking about Santorum and that conservative Christians are the same as hardline Islamists.
Here is another bit of anecdotal evidence here about the original subject: If there was a Budhist Taks Force, or a Hindu Task Force here in the USA, do you think that half the members would be gentiles?
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Jews have gotten it the worst, and that's an understatement!
Russians lost 100 million people in past 100 years :o
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Brainn, I agree with what your saying! There is a lot of good Jew loving Zionist out there, and I believe it is increasing. There is also a lot of Nazi Satanist out there, and they are increasing as well! I see it at biker rallies all the time, they don’t even know why they hate Jews they just think hitler and satan are cool!
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Russians lost 100 million people in past 100 years :o
Jews have had it far worse in the last 100 years..... FAR WORSE...
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Brainn, I agree with what your saying! There is a lot of good Jew loving Zionist out there, and I believe it is increasing. There is also a lot of Nazi Satanist out there, and they are increasing as well! I see it at biker rallies all the time, they don’t even know why they hate Jews they just think hitler and satan are cool!
Well, yes and no....
Bikers have almost always adored that biker 'look' of evil Germania and evil devil emblems, no question about that... That includes the helmet, the maltese cross, and some even have that silly spike on their helmet. I don't like it one bit, but its hardwired in them.
However, this trend isn't growing.... its just always been there.... I now see a lot of Mexican bikers in my area who love this look as well. They love the Maltese Cross, the Old English Letters, the images of the Devil, all that stuff.
But the growing number of Christians who are Judeophiles IS growing. I am certain of it. I see it everywhere. If you check out facebook, the Christian groups are almost always well connected with the zionist groups. So many of them have the Israeli flag on their facebook icon... It is by far the most popular flag after the US flag.
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Russians lost 100 million people in past 100 years :o
serbian army,
Let me explain a couple of facts to you.
1) The Jewish people constitute .01% of the worlds population.
2) You cannot compare 'Raw Numbers' of people killed when comparing with the Jewish people.
3) There were approximately 6 Million Jews killed in Europe by the Nazis during WWII. This constituted approximately 2/3 of the entire Jewish population of the world.
4) Including all the pogroms of the Ukraine and Soviet union during this time the per-capita number of Jews killed outnumbers all other Genocides in known history.
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Total World Population 2010/2011 (via WikiPedia) 7.018 BILLION people...
World Jewish Population 2010/2011 (via SimpleToRemember.com) 13.3 MILLION...
So, I was wrong...
13,300,000
------------ X 100 = .189%
7,018,000,000
So we are 0.189% of the world population currently... But considering the rate of assimilation and the low birthrate, we seem pretty doomed....
Facts from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm
The worldwide Jewish population is 13.3 million Jews. Jewish population growth worldwide is close to zero percent. From 2000 to 2001 it rose 0.3%, compared to worldwide population growth of 1.4%.
In 2001, 8.3 million Jews lived in the Diaspora and 4.9 million lived in Israel. Just about half of the world’s Jews reside in the Americas, with about 46 percent in North America. (top)
Approximately 37% of worldwide Jewry lives in Israel. Israel's Jewish population rose by 1.6% the past year, while the Diaspora population dropped by 0.5%.
Europe, including the Asian territories of the Russian Republic and Turkey, accounts for about 12 percent of the total. Fewer than 2 percent of the world’s Jews live in Africa and Oceania.
Metropolitan Tel Aviv, with 2.5 million Jews, is the world's largest Jewish city. It is followed by New York, with 1.9 million, Haifa 655,000, Los Angeles 621,000, Jerusalem 570,000, and southeast Florida 514,000.
In 2001, 8 countries had a Jewish population of 100,000 or more; another 5 countries had 50,000 or more. There is not a single Diaspora country where Jews amounted to 2.5 percent of the total population. Only 3 Diaspora countries had more than 1 percent. Gibraltar (24.0 per 1000), United States (20.1), Canada (11.9), France (8.8), Uruguay (6.7), Argentina (5.3), Hungary (5.2), and Australia (5.1)[1] had the highest ratios.
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As Rabbi Kahane said many times in his lectures... The only place in America to really know what the average American thinks about Jews is in the local Saloon/Bar.... Before I did Teshuva (back in 2003) I used to hang out at a little bar in town and believe me... once they get liquored up... they will start blabbing about how the Jews control everything...
Agreed, I've seen it myself.
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"If there was a Budhist Taks Force, or a Hindu Task Force here in the USA, do you think that half the members would be gentiles?"
I would bet that close to 100% of the members would be gentiles. Do you know what gentile means? It means non-Jew.
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Because we are a nation that will dwell alone. Not only are we different by the rules we follow, we are supposed to be light unto other nations by preaching behavior that goes against convenience and animalistic behavior. So if you can imagine a heathen being preached to by a blessed Jewish people, he will hate the Jewish people.
And these Jewish people who follow the less convenient religion are a successful people. On the other hand, this heathen who follows no religion or an idolatrous religion can't do well in life unless he cheats the system..and even then he's unhappy and jealous...that's another reason why the Jewish people are hated.
Gd said we would be a nation that will dwell alone. This is a blessing since we cannot rely on other nations...only on Hashem. And by only relying on Hashem who has saved us time and time again..and till this day we are not an extinct people, we never forget our Torah.
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serbian army,
Let me explain a couple of facts to you.
1) The Jewish people constitute .01% of the worlds population.
2) You cannot compare 'Raw Numbers' of people killed when comparing with the Jewish people.
3) There were approximately 6 Million Jews killed in Europe by the Nazis during WWII. This constituted approximately 2/3 of the entire Jewish population of the world.
4) Including all the pogroms of the Ukraine and Soviet union during this time the per-capita number of Jews killed outnumbers all other Genocides in known history.
I know those facts well. But what I am trying to say is that over 60 million Christians in Russia had been killed by their government. Tragedy of Jews in Russia is one tragedy of many tragedies that happened there: wars, government killing citizens, and starvation.
Serbs lost 1/2 of population in major wars. We were in wars with more 30 nations in past 100 years. Recent Nato bomings :USA (most present) - Belgium - Canada - Denmark - France - Germany - Italy - United Kingdom - Norway - Netherlands - Portugal - Spain - Turkey
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I think it's important to be opposed to anti-Semitism because as Muman pointed out there are no good reasons for it, just excuses. I think he's right that the real reason people don't like Jewish people is that they remind people that God exists.
However what concerns me is that I've noticed an attitude among some of the people on this board and in other places occasionally that seems to treat pro-Jewish Gentiles as if they were just slavishly minded idiots to be used and abused rather than people who have values and loyalties of our own who just happen to also be pro-Jewish in addition to that. I've got my own people and religion that I'm loyal to (white and Christian) and I don't appreciate them being insulted and I don't put any other group above mine even if I want to help another group.
You have to realize that it sometimes takes a very patient and tolerant person to continue to want to help rather than just becoming neutral on the issue. I try to take into consideration things like people's backgrounds when I hear them say things.
I encounter very hateful attitudes at times from Jewish people online whether it be JTF or Pal Talk. If you go into a Jewish chat room and lurk and don't say anything you hear all kinds of things (like the proverbial bar that Muman mentioned) casually said and then they expect other people to be their friends after that. That's just the English chats of course. I don't understand anything else.
When I lurk in Christian chat rooms I rarely hear a bad word spoken against Jewish people (it happens, but then others jump on them for it).
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"If there was a Budhist Taks Force, or a Hindu Task Force here in the USA, do you think that half the members would be gentiles?"
I would bet that close to 100% of the members would be gentiles. Do you know what gentile means? It means non-Jew.
ok, I will ask the question again without any confusion:
If there was a Budhist Taks Force, or a Hindu Task Force here in the USA, do you think that half the members would be Christians?
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When I lurk in Christian chat rooms I rarely hear a bad word spoken against Jewish people (it happens, but then others jump on them for it).
I have seen the exact same thing in the Conservative boards. When someone says something negative about Jews... they are piled upon immediately... and this isnt because of some sorta fake leftist tolerance.... It comes across as far more genuine.
I also noticed the exact same dynamic in another anti-muslim board.
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I have seen the exact same thing in the Conservative boards. When someone says something negative about Jews... they are piled upon immediately... and this isnt because of some sorta fake leftist tolerance.... It comes across as far more genuine.
I also noticed the exact same dynamic in another anti-muslim board.
Thanks for sharing your observations. I think it helps because then it's not just me who is observing this pattern.