Pope urges Peres to advance peace
Pope Benedict XVI urges Peres to work towads peace between Israel, PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis as president
Ronny Sofer Published: 07.14.07, 12:04 / Israel News
Pope Benedict XVI urged Shimon Peres to advance peace between Israel and the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis in his new capacity as the President of the Jewish State.
Peres will be sworn in as president at a special ceremony at the Knesset on Sunday evening.
"On the eve of your appointment as the President of the State of Israel I would like to express my deepest wishes and congratulate you for you appointment to the highest ranking position in your country," the Pope wrote in a letter sent to Peres.
"Many people around the world, as well as Israel's citizens expect you to push the government and other relevant bodies to do everything to advance peace," the Pope added.
"Mr. President," the Pope added, "Your reputation and achievements are exceptional, clear and absolute in the field of peace and the pursuit of justice. I am sure you will continue to influence and incite courage in other leaders to deal with the challenges of the future in the clear hope to advance the good a peace."
"This will be the best way to defeat the deadly terror and violence that are condemned by the whole world. The terrorists are betraying humanity," he said.
Israel's Ambassador to Italy Oded Ben-Horin said the Pope's letter was personal, warm and unusual.
Peres was congratulated by a string of world leaders that included the presidents of Egypt, Jordan, Russia and China.
A question this forum needs to address is whether bashing the Pope and the Vatican for actions and positions they have taken, and continue to take, should be considered the same as bashing Catholics.
I'll defer to JTF leadership on this, but my personal opinion is that the Pope and the Vatican should be bashed when they take anti-Jewish stances.
A question this forum needs to address is whether bashing the Pope and the Vatican for actions and positions they have taken, and continue to take, should be considered the same as bashing Catholics.
I'll defer to JTF leadership on this, but my personal opinion is that the Pope and the Vatican should be bashed when they take anti-Jewish stances.
Good point, Muck. That would be a GREAT Ask JTF question... I'm going to ask it right now.
What is "prescious"?Sorry....typo. Precious in this context meaning fragility and an inflated sense of worth.
Well, not surprising I guess considering he is allowing all of Catholic Europe to be overrun by Muslim Nazis.
The moral failure of the German popehttp://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3256313,00.html
Benedict's visit to Auschwitz paled in comparison to John Paul's 'humble pilgrimage'
Published: 05.29.06, 11:04 / Israel Opinion
Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Auschwitz was a historical, human and moral failure. He arrived in a black, armored, German car, gave an objectionable speech filled with smooth words like "reconciliation" and "understanding," prayed to Jesus, failed to ask forgiveness for the crimes committed by his people, and got back in his black, armored, German car and drove back to Rome.
The visit was extraneous, annoying and infuriating. The German pope failed to do the most basic thing he should have done at Auschwitz: He failed to kneel next to the ovens, look to the blue skies of the Auschwitz afternoon and ask forgiveness for the murder of six million Jews, in the name of German or the German Catholic church.
What was the message?
Benedict XVI may have said repeatedly that he "couldn't have stayed away from Auschwitz," but why, exactly? Was it to tell us Jews, and the Poles as well, that the good German people were really held hostage by the Nazi gang? This message is historically incorrect and ethically invalid.
Even the pope's remarks about Jews contained deeply disturbing messages. Did Hitler really want to destroy the Jews in order to completely do away with the roots of Christianity, as the pope said? It is doubtful that this can be proven.
The pope dramatically asked: Where was God in this godforsaken place? But in doing so, he ignored the truly important question: Where were people? How could the German nation have allowed themselves to develop such an intense hatred for the Jewish people and for other nations? God may have remained silent, but the Germans were the ones who murdered all those people.
Moving past forgiveness
Not that we Jews, the remnants of those destroyed communities, still need German apologies. That was done in 1953, when the chancellor of the "new Germany", Konrad Adenhauer, offered such an apology to Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion. The theme of atonement has been repeated in the statements of many German public figures, and the decisions of many official German institutions.
From our perspective, it's enough. The German pope's apology at Auschwitz, over the graves of a million murdered Jews, should have had a different purpose: To warn against renewed anti-Semitism, and to atone for the sins of the German Catholic church, which in the best-case scenario was silent in the face of the Nazis, and in the more probable one – collaborated with them.
Politically correct
It is no coincidence that two-thirds of Germans expected "their" pope to seek forgiveness at Auschwitz, according to a public opinion poll released over the weekend. They understood the importance of such an apology better than the Holy See.
It wasn't just that Benedict XVI failed to ask forgiveness for the Holocaust. His entire visit there left me with a bad feeling. The pope made sure to maintain an unnecessary, fictional balance comparing victims of other peoples and nations.
When the communists wanted to minimize the slaughter of Jews at Auschwitz, they spread lies that four million people were killed there. The pope may not have repeated this lie, but took care to emphasize again and again the multi-ethnic makeup of the victims.
Linguistically, this is true. Factually, it is a lie: the fate of Jews at Auschwitz was not the same as other peoples. And who, more than the pope, should have known this. And he does know it. But he wanted to be - at Auschwitz, of all places - politically correct.
Negative comparison
Benedict XVI mentioned another papal visit to Auschwitz, that of his predecessor John Paul II in 1979. But what a difference between the two visits! Polish pope Wojtyla came to Auschwitz and Birkenau as a "humble pilgrim," as he put it. He prayed silently, spoke up for his "Jewish older brother," and set off on an historic journey for reconciliation between the Christian church and Judaism. That journey reached a high-point when John Paul visited Israel in 2000.
Yes, times have indeed changed. It's true, pope Ratzinger, Benedict XVI, did not visit Auschwitz as part of the March of the Living. He is not the chief rabbi of Israel. He is the head of the Catholic Church, and Jesus is his God.
But especially in light of his lofty position, he is also a spiritual guide for a billion Catholics worldwide. And what did his visit to Auschwitz tell them? He forgot anti-Semitism, forgot anti-Jewish hatred, forgot the sins of his church and his people and made due with a general denunciation of hatred.
Apparently, this is how he solved his temporary problem.
And you must all remember that from the point of view of those who practice Christianity - their believes are in doubt as long as Jews continue to live in this world.Just look at what the Christians have said in the last 2000 years: G-d abandoned the Jews, he scattered them all over the globe, he chosed the church instead, Jews will never return to their homeland, they are not the chosen people anymore (btw, the term "chosen people" refers to that that the Jews WERE CHOSEN from all the other nations to receive the 613 Torah commandments from G-d while the non Jews recieved only 7 laws aka the 7 laws that G-d gave to Noach and his family (http://www.noachide.org.uk/html/seven_laws.html), G-d himself is saying that, some ignorant antisemites are using this term as if the Jews think that they are superior to others and that's why they are "killing the Pal_estinians", as if the destiny of the Jews is to live in some European ghetto in Europe instead of in their homeland and if they are already fighting their enemies back then that's because "they feel superior to the poor Arabinians").
Israel7, Please explain...I'm not sure I understand why my beliefs are in doubt as long as Jewish people continue to live in this world.
Don't worry - I say by 0001 they will still be posted. ;)
I fail to see how a criticism of the leaders of a particular church can be construed as an attack on ordinary people of a certain theology. An attack on Jimmy Carter is not an attack on Americans. An attack on Tony Blair is not an attack on the English. An attack on the neturai karta sect is not an attack on Jews. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being thin skinned to the ultimate degree.Hey Newman - Are you talking to me? ;)
I can see that you are very passionate in your beliefs and I do respect that.That's the point you are failing to understand:
I can also see that there is nothing I could say to make you feel differently about Christians/Christianity.
I will say that you are not describing this Christian or my beliefs.
I do not feel I have to dimminish the Jewish people or their beliefs - in order to practice my faith/live my life. In fact I gain strength and knowledge from sharing in this forum.
The Jewish people are not a threat to my beliefs - as I am not to theirs.
I do appreciate your taking the time answer my question.
I fail to see how a criticism of the leaders of a particular church can be construed as an attack on ordinary people of a certain theology. An attack on Jimmy Carter is not an attack on Americans. An attack on Tony Blair is not an attack on the English. An attack on the neturai karta sect is not an attack on Jews. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being thin skinned to the ultimate degree.Hey Newman - Are you talking to me? ;)
Are you calling me thinskinned? I better carry my parasol to the beach then.
I just wanted to understand what Israel7 meant in his post.
I appreciated that he took the time to answer.
I also want people to know that as a Catholic from birth - I have never been told by my Church that as long as Jewish people exist they are a threat to our beliefs.
In fact I have been raised with just the opposite view.
That is just my experience - no offense meant.
I did not call it an attack and did not mean to attack anyone.
2216 and the pictures are still there :)
Ok - now that might be considered an attack - but I'm going to put on my thick skin.I can see that you are very passionate in your beliefs and I do respect that.That's the point you are failing to understand:
I can also see that there is nothing I could say to make you feel differently about Christians/Christianity.
I will say that you are not describing this Christian or my beliefs.
I do not feel I have to dimminish the Jewish people or their beliefs - in order to practice my faith/live my life. In fact I gain strength and knowledge from sharing in this forum.
The Jewish people are not a threat to my beliefs - as I am not to theirs.
I do appreciate your taking the time answer my question.
Jews DON'T BELIEVE, Jews KNOW!
And that's the difference between the Christians who BELIEVE IN WHAT THEIR IMAGINATION WANTS TO BELIEVE to Jews who KNOW historic events that 3 millions of their descendants witneseed them and they also heard the words of G-d in the revelation in mt. Sinai that non Jews should follow the 7 laws of Noach, and that there won't be any revelation to other nation in which G-d will give new laws to humans, and that the Torah shouldn't be changed at all, and that non Jews will return to follow the 7 laws of Noach in the future.
You believe that your parents are your real parents? Or is it that you KNOW that your parents are your real parents? You know! Same goes for the Jews!
BTW, do you know how G-d describes in the Torah those people who practice Christianity? I'm sure that you won't be happy to hear this, he describes them as people who worship wood.
I've already answered your question.
Replying to the subject of the thread.....no one has EVER EVER lived in peace with muslims, why would the pope think its possible now?? We hear all the fantasies muslims have of the "glory days" of islam where they ruled and everyone lived in some ridiculous shangri la la land peacefully while unicorns strolled by lakes lit up by rainbows....NEVER happened, anyone who lived in dhimmitude under islam was nothing more than a slave paying the jiyza and living under harsh rules and laws. No thanks pope no one would buy this crap now, we know too much.
BTW, do you know how G-d describes in the Torah those people who practice Christianity? I'm sure that you won't be happy to hear this, he describes them as people who worship wood.
In that case this is my last post in this forum.BTW, do you know how G-d describes in the Torah those people who practice Christianity? I'm sure that you won't be happy to hear this, he describes them as people who worship wood.
I was away and just saw this.
Israel7, that absolutely, beyond any shadow of a doubt, was an attack on Christians. The Torah was written way before the Christian faith was ever heard of.
Please stop... I am giving you a warning now. You are in serious violation of the forum rules. If you want to discuss this, do it offline.
Furthermore, If you are so serious about Judaism, then why are you posting on Shabbat? I would prefer that Jewish people do not post on the forum on Shabbat. Perhaps you are in a different time zone.I'm posting on Sabbath because I grew up in a family that didn't keep the Sabbath, I'm aware that it's not an excuse but since I learned why the Torah is a juridical document I started to keep Sabbath couple of times and I hope to keep it always in the future. But you don't have to keep the Sabbath in order to know that what's written in the Torah is true and more important than that is to know what not to do including in what not to believe.