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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Manch on August 05, 2014, 07:00:32 PM
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As fighting halts, IDF chief promises help to rehabilitate Gaza
Israel and the IDF will do everything in their power in order to help rehabilitate the Gaza Strip and assist civilians in the Palestinian enclave, IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz said Tuesday,
http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-fighting-halts-idf-head-promises-help-to-rehabilitate-gaza/
Writers
Adiv Sterman
Israel and the IDF will do everything in their power in order to help rehabilitate the Gaza Strip and assist civilians in the Palestinian enclave, IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz said Tuesday, as four weeks of fighting appeared to grind to a halt.
“We are entering a complex period of assistance and rehabilitation,” Gantz said. “We will assist [the people in Gaza] not because of a strategic consideration, but because of the humanitarian aspect,” he added.
Israel has allowed transfers of humanitarian goods into Gaza throughout the conflict, but officials in the Strip and the United Nations have warned of a humanitarian disaster, as 28 days of bombing raids have left homes destroyed and vital infrastructure crippled.
The IDF Chief of Staff stressed that Israel was already providing civilians across the Gaza border with food and medical supplies, adding that neither he nor anyone in Israeli leadership positions wished to deliberately inflict harm on the Palestinian people.
“We are sparing no efforts to send them food,” Gantz said. “It is morally important and we have nothing against the people of Gaza; they have a right to live just like everyone else.”
Three hundred trucks carrying medical equipment were set to pass from Israel into the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing later Tuesday, Ynet reported.
IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz visits near the border with the Gaza Strip, on July 26, 2014, (photo credit: Yehudah Gross/IDF Spokesperson/Flash90)
IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz visits near the border with the Gaza Strip, on July 26, 2014, (photo credit: Yehudah Gross/IDF Spokesperson/Flash90)
Earlier Tuesday, Mufeed al-Hasayneh, the minister of public works in Gaza, accused Israel of causing over $5 billion worth of damage in the Gaza Strip since its military launched a large offensive there on July 8, Palestinian Media reported.
Health officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip say that some 1,800 Palestinians have been killed since the fighting began, most of them civilians and many of them children. Israel says some 900 of the dead in Gaza were combatants.
Hasayneh said tens of thousands of homes had been completely or partially destroyed, and that infrastructure in the Strip had sustained severe damage as well, the Palestinian news agency Ma’an reported Monday.
Israel has blamed Hamas for the death and destruction in Gaza, since it emplaced its rockets, rocket launchers, cross-border tunnel openings and other military infrastructure in homes, schools and mosques, and thus used Gazans as human shields.
A map distributed by the IDF depicts terror infrastructure in the Gaza City neighborhood of Shejaiya (Photo credit: IDF)
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A map distributed by the IDF depicts terror infrastructure in the Gaza City neighborhood of Shejaiya (Photo credit: IDF)
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This is the equivalent of the United States re-building Al Quaeda controlled cities. Brilliant! >:(
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He's obviously not helping the innocent civilians, just wasting money. Look at aid that goes to any Islamic country, they just use it for weapons and more death. All the repairs are for nothing, because Hamas will probably destroy them. I don't believe that he just has good intentions and wants to help but is stupid, rather, he knows it's a waste of money but just wants to look good.
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This is the equivalent of the United States re-building Al Quaeda controlled cities. Brilliant! >:(
This is exactly what US is doing in Afghanistan
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This is exactly what US is doing in Afghanistan
I hope the US leaves the Middle East just like Russia should leave the Caucasus. It's a mess that's going to be made worse by outside intervention, but less so for the Caucasus because not all of them are members of that barbarian death cult known as "Islam".
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Benny Gantz should never have been appointed COS the only reason he was appointed is because the person they wanted had some personal problems
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The IDF General Staff is notoriously leftist. This keeps in the long running pattern.
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This is why I will not make aliyah.
Those innocent young Israeli boys were sent to the battlefield as cannon fodder , having their guts blown to pieces , some left dead, some left crippled.. All this for what?? Another useless cease-fire????? I am sick of Israel's fake government. The entire Gaza Invasion was a complete publicity stunt to try to appease naive Israelis that they have some type of hawkish government, whereas in reality the pull-out was planned all along.
Israelis from now on will live under the threat of rockets and running to bomb shelters will be a weekly or daily occurrence. Bibi Netanyahu would just assume Israelis live in fear and terror then to hurt his reputation with the United Nations or Democrats in Washington DC, who are his real masters.
Israel is not even its own country. It is a country under the rule of a fake puppet government.. The Knesset is a complete fabrication.. Israel's democratic government is not much different than the democrat governments we see in Iran or Russia. All the elections are fake and all the lying politicians merely give lip service to the people to appease their senses, yet are, in reality, taking their orders from the United Nations.
Netanyahu pulled the troops out of Israel as soon as the UN screamed out "War Crimes"... Netanyahu is a coward and he is a traitor who deserves only the worst of the worst for the deaths of those innocent Israelis!!!
REVOLT NOW!! Down with the Knesset!!! The traitors should be overthrown!! Starting with the Israeli leader named Hanin Zoabi!
I AM SORRY BUT HAMAS is not the real enemy here. The enemy is the Knesset itself! Hamas is only a symptom of the disease that Israel has, a self-hating, fake government that takes orders from its European Nazi and Islamic masters.
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I also think it needs to be made clear that Fatah is an enemy too as is the PLO filth. I know this is off-topic but I feel it needs to be said: I always hear Hamas this, Hamas that, "you support Hamas" to pro-Palestinian activists. I don't think that's right. I think some of them may support Fatah or the PLO which are both terrorist organizations, and by equating everything with Hamas we are making it look as though Fatah and the PLO are good. They are terrorist scum, who also support the Palestinian cause. So we need to stop with the Hamas BS and say they're all part of the Palestinian cause, which is terrorist, whether through Hamas, the PLO, or Fatah. The Palestinian cause PERIOD is our enemy.
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This is why I will not make aliyah.
Those innocent young Israeli boys were sent to the battlefield as cannon fodder , having their guts blown to pieces , some left dead, some left crippled.. All this for what?? Another useless cease-fire????? I am sick of Israel's fake government. The entire Gaza Invasion was a complete publicity stunt to try to appease naive Israelis that they have some type of hawkish government, whereas in reality the pull-out was planned all along.
Israelis from now on will live under the threat of rockets and running to bomb shelters will be a weekly or daily occurrence. Bibi Netanyahu would just assume Israelis live in fear and terror then to hurt his reputation with the United Nations or Democrats in Washington DC, who are his real masters.
Israel is not even its own country. It is a country under the rule of a fake puppet government.. The Knesset is a complete fabrication.. Israel's democratic government is not much different than the democrat governments we see in Iran or Russia. All the elections are fake and all the lying politicians merely give lip service to the people to appease their senses, yet are, in reality, taking their orders from the United Nations.
Netanyahu pulled the troops out of Israel as soon as the UN screamed out "War Crimes"... Netanyahu is a coward and he is a traitor who deserves only the worst of the worst for the deaths of those innocent Israelis!!!
REVOLT NOW!! Down with the Knesset!!! The traitors should be overthrown!! Starting with the Israeli leader named Hanin Zoabi!
I AM SORRY BUT HAMAS is not the real enemy here. The enemy is the Knesset itself! Hamas is only a symptom of the disease that Israel has, a self-hating, fake government that takes orders from its European Nazi and Islamic masters.
Are you saying that "I AM SORRY BUT HAMAS is not the real enemy here. "??!! :fright:
Oh, ok, I actually agree with this and everything else in your post! :clap:
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So EJA44, what are you going to do about it... You have a commandment to make Aliyah, and you say you will not do so because of your own decision. We all have a responsibility to change it as no Jew is excused from the commandment to live in the land. As you know I am not living there currently, but I will NEVER say that I will not make Aliyah. No matter how hard it will be I will somehow end up in Israel to do what I can to continue the legacy of Jewish sovereignty of the state.
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Are you saying that "I AM SORRY BUT HAMAS is not the real enemy here. "??!! :fright:
Oh, ok, I actually agree with this and everything else in your post! :clap:
I know that many people here do not have English as first language. I apologize. My statement was figurative, more like symbolic. Although, I think it is the absolute truth.. Hamas is not the main problem, it is merely a symptom of a much greater problem. If you have a disease like cancer, you will vomit and be sick.. You don't just say, oh what can I do to stop vomiting, you say what can I do to remove the cancer, so I stop vomiting..
Basically, Hamas would have never existed, if the cowardly, traitorous and corrupt Knesset and Israeli politicians didn't allow for such a vicious and volatile entity to take power and control the Gaza region.
Hamas is not the real problem, because Hamas is just one of many hundreds of suicidal and fanatical factions of the Palestinians. Trust me, if we get rid of Hamas today, tomorrow we will have many more fanatical Arab factions to take their place. It never ends.. Israel needs to take control of Gaza, not just wipe out Hamas.. Hamas is nothing , Israeli stupidity is everything.. Arabs will be Arabs..
When I say real enemy, I am implying that Israel has a much greater enemy.
The greatest enemy to Israel is the Israeli government and the entity that controls it, The United Nations.
Israel needs to overthrow its corrupt government and declare war on the UN, who is Israel's greatest enemy. Without the United Nations, there would not even be a Palestinian Arab people, because the United Nations is their muscle and backbone.
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So EJA44, what are you going to do about it... You have a commandment to make Aliyah, and you say you will not do so because of your own decision. We all have a responsibility to change it as no Jew is excused from the commandment to live in the land. As you know I am not living there currently, but I will NEVER say that I will not make Aliyah. No matter how hard it will be I will somehow end up in Israel to do what I can to continue the legacy of Jewish sovereignty of the state.
I never said I would never make Aliyah.. I said I would not make aliyah under current conditions. As long as conditions are the way they are, I am not making Aliyah.
When, you leave the USA and get to Israel, then I will take your criticisms more seriously on this subject, Muman.
We have a mitzvah to be in Israel, but Israel is currently under occupation of The United Nations and Arab League. We also had a mitzvah to leave Israel back when it was conquered by the Chaldeans. As far as I am concerned, Israel is still under occupation by the Europeans and Arabs.
We certainly need a great hero from the outside, a King Cyrus, somebody, who can help us reclaim the land so we can rebuild the Temple, Moshiach will come and Jews can pray and worship anywhere in the land as well as enjoy more freedom living in Israel than anywhere else in the world.
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I never said I would never make Aliyah.. I said I would not make aliyah under current conditions. As long as conditions are the way they are, I am not making Aliyah.
When, you leave the USA and get to Israel, then I will take your criticisms more seriously on this subject, Muman.
We have a mitzvah to be in Israel, but Israel is currently under occupation of The United Nations and Arab League. We also had a mitzvah to leave Israel back when it was conquered by the Chaldeans. As far as I am concerned, Israel is still under occupation by the Europeans and Arabs.
We certainly need a great hero from the outside, a King Cyrus, somebody, who can help us reclaim the land so we can rebuild the Temple, Moshiach will come and Jews can pray and worship anywhere in the land as well as enjoy more freedom living in Israel than anywhere else in the world.
Apparently you don't accept Muman's criticisms because he is not yet in Israel, but guess what, it is the TORAH's criticisms which Muman is citing, not his own. And you will receive the same type of criticism and response from Chaim Ben Pesach - the only reason he is not in Israel is because the regime will not let him in. He encourages all Jews to go.
We have a mitzvah to be in Israel, but Israel is currently under occupation of The United Nations and Arab League. We also had a mitzvah to leave Israel back when it was conquered by the Chaldeans. As far as I am concerned, Israel is still under occupation by the Europeans and Arabs.
Boy you are really grasping for straws. Who is in control of the land has no bearing on the mitzvah to settle it. So even if the Ottomans were still around and this parcel of land was part of the Ottoman empire, that has no bearing on what we must do.
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Apparently you don't accept Muman's criticisms because he is not yet in Israel, but guess what, it is the TORAH's criticisms which Muman is citing, not his own. And you will receive the same type of criticism and response from Chaim Ben Pesach - the only reason he is not in Israel is because the regime will not let him in. He encourages all Jews to go.
Boy you are really grasping for straws. Who is in control of the land has no bearing on the mitzvah to settle it. So even if the Ottomans were still around and this parcel of land was part of the Ottoman empire, that has no bearing on what we must do.
Kahane Was Right have you made aliyah?? I will not have people who have not made aliyah criticize me about not making aliyah. If you have made aliyah, please accept my apologies that I haven't.
I never said I would not make aliyah, nor did I say making aliyah is not a mitzvah.. However, whoever is not in Israel now, must have a good reason not to be.. I have my reasons.. Maybe, they are not noble to some, but to me, they feel genuine for the time being. Muman has not made aliyah and yet condemns me for not making aliyah.. How ironic is that? He also misinterpreted what I wrote, grossly.. I never said I would NEVER make aliyah, so Muman, please don't shove words in my mouth, because that pisses me off.
Here's why I am not making aliyah. I refuse to be unarmed and living side by side with 1,000,000 Arabs... I refuse to live in a country where Muslims have more religious freedom than Jews and where Jews are not allowed to pray anywhere they desire. If I go to Israel, I may very well go to the Temple Mount to pray.. I doubt I could be restrained without a good amount of force. I may go to every forbidden site.. Basically, I would spend the rest of my life in an Israeli prison, because I would not put up with the vicious dictatorship. I would rot or be deported and my life would be over. I refuse to live under Ottoman Rule as well.. What is the point of being sent to a gas chamber in your own land? Better a gas chamber in Israel than a palace in Galut?? Queen Esther was more effective in the kingdom of the Persians to help liberate Israel than she would have been in the bondage of the ruthless Chaldeans. I think the more mobilized Jews are in Galut, living in the USA, e.g., where Jews can learn to defend themselves, save money to buy land and also promote the cause to the gentiles is absoutlely essential. This, IMO, is better than just be a helpless victim at the mercy of cruel and heartless leaders like LIvni, Netanyahu, Peres, etc.. I don't want to be an article in an Israeli Newspapers, "American Jewish guy gets stabbed to death by Arab". After many years of carrying a gun with me, now I am suppose to just pray for safety because I am in Israel? Will that 18 year old girl be able to get to me in time to save me after being jumped by a band of ruthless and heavily armed Arabs?? Am I real Jew ? Am I a real Israelite? Yet, I am disarmed and helpless before Arab invaders in my own land?? This is what we call making aliyah and being liberated?
Let's not forget that the modern state of Israel was founded in 1948 by Jews who were mobilized and ready to stand up and fight for their nation. They didnt just go there and be ready to be slaves to some despotic ruler or live as second class citizens in their own country whose only reprieve would be davening that MOshiach come and stop it..
I have talked to Jews who say if we just pray harder and lay our guns down, Moshiach will come and end all the suffering in Israel.. Somehow, I think Hashem built freedom fighters, armies and kingdoms to allow his people to carry out his Will, rather than expect Hashem to do all the work, where the people do nothing. Hashem will empower his people if they not only put faith in Him , but proactively serve him and do all in their power to honor him, through both prayer and action.
If Netanyahu wipes out Hamas and re-claims Gaza as part of Israel, then I would consider making Aliyah much more seriously.. Although, the European/Socialist legal system of Israel and the fact that the citizens are more like second-class subjects who have a considerable less rights than American citizens, leaves a bad feeling in my stomach.
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Kahane Was Right have you made aliyah?? I will not have people who have not made aliyah criticize me about not making aliyah. If you have made aliyah, please accept my apologies that I haven't.
I never said I would not make aliyah, nor did I say making aliyah is not a mitzvah.. However, whoever is not in Israel now, must have a good reason not to be.. I have my reasons.. Maybe, they are not noble to some, but to me, they feel genuine for the time being. Muman has not made aliyah and yet condemns me for not making aliyah.. How ironic is that? He also misinterpreted what I wrote, grossly.. I never said I would NEVER make aliyah, so Muman, please don't shove words in my mouth, because that pisses me off.
Here's why I am not making aliyah. I refuse to be unarmed and living side by side with 1,000,000 Arabs... I refuse to live in a country where Muslims have more religious freedom than Jews and where Jews are not allowed to pray anywhere they desire. If I go to Israel, I may very well go to the Temple Mount to pray.. I doubt I could be restrained without a good amount of force. I may go to every forbidden site.. Basically, I would spend the rest of my life in an Israeli prison, because I would not put up with the vicious dictatorship. I would rot or be deported and my life would be over. I refuse to live under Ottoman Rule as well.. What is the point of being sent to a gas chamber in your own land? Better a gas chamber in Israel than a palace in Galut?? Queen Esther was more effective in the kingdom of the Persians to help liberate Israel than she would have been in the bondage of the ruthless Chaldeans. I think the more mobilized Jews are in Galut, living in the USA, e.g., where Jews can learn to defend themselves, save money to buy land and also promote the cause to the gentiles is absoutlely essential. This, IMO, is better than just be a helpless victim at the mercy of cruel and heartless leaders like LIvni, Netanyahu, Peres, etc.. I don't want to be an article in an Israeli Newspapers, "American Jewish guy gets stabbed to death by Arab". After many years of carrying a gun with me, now I am suppose to just pray for safety because I am in Israel? Will that 18 year old girl be able to get to me in time to save me after being jumped by a band of ruthless and heavily armed Arabs?? Am I real Jew ? Am I a real Israelite? Yet, I am disarmed and helpless before Arab invaders in my own land?? This is what we call making aliyah and being liberated?
Let's not forget that the modern state of Israel was founded in 1948 by Jews who were mobilized and ready to stand up and fight for their nation. They didnt just go there and be ready to be slaves to some despotic ruler or live as second class citizens in their own country whose only reprieve would be davening that MOshiach come and stop it..
I have talked to Jews who say if we just pray harder and lay our guns down, Moshiach will come and end all the suffering in Israel.. Somehow, I think Hashem built freedom fighters, armies and kingdoms to allow his people to carry out his Will, rather than expect Hashem to do all the work, where the people do nothing. Hashem will empower his people if they not only put faith in Him , but proactively serve him and do all in their power to honor him, through both prayer and action.
If Netanyahu wipes out Hamas and re-claims Gaza as part of Israel, then I would consider making Aliyah much more seriously.. Although, the European/Socialist legal system of Israel and the fact that the citizens are more like second-class subjects who have a considerable less rights than American citizens, leaves a bad feeling in my stomach.
I think in Israel you are at least more free to carry firearms than you would be in socialist Europe.
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I think in Israel you are at least more free to carry firearms than you would be in socialist Europe.
That's not saying much... I sure as heck wouldn't live in socialist Europe, that's for damn sure.. Socialist Europe is why Israel is in the mess it is in to begin with.
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I know that many people here do not have English as first language. I apologize. My
Basically, Hamas would have never existed, if the cowardly, traitorous and corrupt Knesset and Israeli politicians didn't allow for such a vicious and volatile entity to take power and control the Gaza
You missed the sarcasm, I just tried to be funny. I was in agreement with you. Reread.
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That's not saying much... I sure as heck wouldn't live in socialist Europe, that's for damn sure.. Socialist Europe is why Israel is in the mess it is in to begin with.
OMG! You guys have no idea how restrictive gun control is in Israel. This factor a major negative for me in terms of Aliyah. Look at Nefesh B'Nefesh site for this subject and be appalled.
A small example: even if you, after 4 years living in Israel disarmed, by some miracle, will receive a permit to own and carry, you are allowed to buy only 50 bullets for the lifetime of your firearm!
This is insane!
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OMG! You guys have no idea how restrictive gun control is in Israel. This factor a major negative for me in terms of Aliyah. Look at Nefesh B'Nefesh site for this subject and be appalled.
A small example: even if you, after 4 years living in Israel disarmed, by some miracle, will receive a permit to own and carry, you are allowed to buy only 50 bullets for the lifetime of your firearm!
This is insane!
Precisely my point , Manch.. I go from being a liberated Jew to being an unarmed, helpless shtetl Jew.. Making Aliyah, should be the other way around.. I should be going to Israel to become a liberated Jew and escaping the oppression and tyranny of where I Live in Galut, not the other way around.
In my opinion, it is a "crime against humanity" to strip law-abiding human beings of their rights to keep and bear arms..
This is all I have to say:
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/25/38/1367192537_4106_colors3print.jpg?itok=jWYk8pfg)
Israel is just becoming one big shtetl and the leaders of Israel are not much different than the Czars of Russia. The only difference is that Islam and Atheism are given more preference than Judaism, rather than Russian Orthodox Christianity.
Reading the nazi-like draconian firearm regulations of Israel on Nefesh b'Nefesh site just made me want to vomit.. Seriously, they want JEws to come and then treat them like they are criminals or inferior sub-humans .. And, I thought California had strict gun regulations.. Heck, even France doesn't treat it's citizens this crappy.. Even many Arabs have more freedom than this.. In Yemen, any Arab can own as many guns as he wants, even AK-47s. I bet Arabs in Israel could give a sh*t less about these laws. It's probably only Jews who follow them.
http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-offices/post-aliyah-government-processing/1054-licensing-a-firearm.html
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That's not saying much... I sure as heck wouldn't live in socialist Europe, that's for damn sure.. Socialist Europe is why Israel is in the mess it is in to begin with.
You see, I live in socialist Europe. "Our" new president, the Chocolate King Petro Poroshenko, has all the marks of an EU socialist. He is center-left, like pretty much the entire EU especially their economic policies, and believes in this toxic mix of crony capitalism (the globalist, corporate kind and not the real free market kind) with socialism. Unfortunately everyone here is against capitalism, because they are ignorant. Most people (and thank the Lord) are anti-Communist, but still want some form of socialism (even the far-right nationalists, who want "social nationalism" – basically a modified version of Nazism). Everyone thinks capitalism is corporate greed and globalism because of what they see in America, they don't understand that you can have a free market which respects individual liberty, true capitalism, that is completely compatible with nationalism.
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You see, I live in socialist Europe. "Our" new president, the Chocolate King Petro Poroshenko, has all the marks of an EU socialist. He is center-left, like pretty much the entire EU especially their economic policies, and believes in this toxic mix of crony capitalism (the globalist, corporate kind and not the real free market kind) with socialism. Unfortunately everyone here is against capitalism, because they are ignorant. Most people (and thank the Lord) are anti-Communist, but still want some form of socialism (even the far-right nationalists, who want "social nationalism" – basically a modified version of Nazism). Everyone thinks capitalism is corporate greed and globalism because of what they see in America, they don't understand that you can have a free market which respects individual liberty, true capitalism, that is completely compatible with nationalism.
Agree with you 100% Ukrainian Jew! What the h*ll are you doing in Ukraine?? BTW, I am also a Ukrainian/Belorussian/Russian Jew.. My great grandfather Itzig and great grandmother Chane were from Odessa and immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s. You should do the same!
You need to get your a** out of Ukraine now and should come to the USA.. Why do Jews still live in Eastern Europe is beyond me.. I hear things are on the up in Poland a bit, but still those Poles will never forgive the Jews for what they say they did 2000 years ago.. We need more right-wing Jews here in USA (and Israel too), of course.. The only reason I would want Ukraine to join the EU is to give it a safety net from the evil Russian empire.. I agree that the EU is completely deranged, socialist and living in a fantasy. All the free loaders from around the world are banking on the hard working EU nations to help fund their lifestyle of living on government assistance and abusing the system. Not that the USA isn't also suffering from socialism as well. However, it is not as indoctrinated into the fabric of the country as in EUrope. As America is opening its doors to more free-loaders, like the nation of Mexico and many of the younger generation rather just do drugs, get tattoos and work mindless jobs in coffee houses, indeed, our country is also struggling with the socialist plague. However, each state has some sovereignty and states like Idaho (Right to Work), don't have all the nanny state mentality like you would have in California or New York.
For example, the state I live, Washington , has no state income tax and therefore I pay a fraction the taxes that any European would pay and even most Americans. Of course, there are property and other taxes, but Europe, usually is much higher in every regard. Just look how much it cost to fill up a tank a gas in Europe. What is it now, like $9 a gallon? Convert to liters. LOL I think London was also rated to be more expensive to live than New York City, but the salaries are actually lower on average and taxes much higher.
Israel, is almost like a soft-communist, heavily socialist nation. The Kibbutzim were good folk (my mother was one for a while), but the communist mindset did not exactly leave a lot of the immigrants when they left the Iron Curtain.
If a person makes over $150,000 in Israel they will have half their income (48%) raped from them.. That rivals even the worst of the European Socialist nations. Taxation like that murders small businesses which are an essential component to any country's financial and economic backbone.
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Kahane Was Right have you made aliyah?? I will not have people who have not made aliyah criticize me about not making aliyah. If you have made aliyah, please accept my apologies that I haven't.
There is no need to apologize to me. What piece of land I'm standing on does not influence what the Torah says.
Who has control over the land of Israel does not influence what the Torah says. That is the point I was making. So the comment about Chaldeans and Europeans and Arabs occupying the land has nothing to do with whether or not we are obligated to do certain things by the Torah. That's all. We can have a discussion about what is Judaism, whether I'm a perfect tzadik or not (which I am not!)
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There is no need to apologize to me. What piece of land I'm standing on does not influence what the Torah says.
Who has control over the land of Israel does not influence what the Torah says. That is the point I was making. So the comment about Chaldeans and Europeans and Arabs occupying the land has nothing to do with whether or not we are obligated to do certain things by the Torah. That's all. We can have a discussion about what is Judaism, whether I'm a perfect tzadik or not (which I am not!)
Well, you will never hear from me that Jews should not return to Israel.. I do believe every Jew has the duty sooner or later to either return to Israel or strive to restore the Holy Land as a Jewish Nation. Obviously, many great Jewish sages did not manage to make it to Israel, themselves, but obviously every Jew longs for Tzion and wants to return to his homeland. I am included.
However, I do not feel now is the time for me to make aliyah under current conditions. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that every JEw on the earth should be in Israel and that Israel should be a powerful, Jewish nations ruled by Jewish leaders who support Jewish people and
There will be no Hanin Zoabis or Hamas in the future Israel I envision. As well, Israeli citizens will be more free in Israel and liberated than anywhere else on the Earth. It will be truly a place where JEws will rejoice and be empowered, not be weakened and hampered by outside nations.
You were mentioning the Ottoman Empire.. At times I wonder which occupier of Israel is worse, the Ottomans or the United Nations? The United Nations is the current ruler of Israel, the people living there are subjects of this autocratic regime. I told you I would refuse to live under Ottoman Islamic rule. Well, I actually think living in under the rule of the UN/EU is equally bad. At least we knew the Ottomans were invaders and the enemy. The United Nations, however, acts as a noble entity who makes its indentured subjects feel they are free, but in reality are every bit as enslaved. Israel is operating in suicide mode with its politics and Israel's politics is more about appeasing its foreign master as well as its puppet leaders staying in power. No other rational country in this world would allow itself to operate in this manner.
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Agree with you 100% Ukrainian Jew! What the h*ll are you doing in Ukraine?? BTW, I am also a Ukrainian/Belorussian/Russian Jew.. My great grandfather Itzig and great grandmother Chane were from Odessa and immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s. You should do the same!
You need to get your a** out of Ukraine now and should come to the USA.. Why do Jews still live in Eastern Europe is beyond me.. I hear things are on the up in Poland a bit, but still those Poles will never forgive the Jews for what they say they did 2000 years ago.. We need more right-wing Jews here in USA (and Israel too), of course.. The only reason I would want Ukraine to join the EU is to give it a safety net from the evil Russian empire.. I agree that the EU is completely deranged, socialist and living in a fantasy. All the free loaders from around the world are banking on the hard working EU nations to help fund their lifestyle of living on government assistance and abusing the system. Not that the USA isn't also suffering from socialism as well. However, it is not as indoctrinated into the fabric of the country as in EUrope. As America is opening its doors to more free-loaders, like the nation of Mexico and many of the younger generation rather just do drugs, get tattoos and work mindless jobs in coffee houses, indeed, our country is also struggling with the socialist plague. However, each state has some sovereignty and states like Idaho (Right to Work), don't have all the nanny state mentality like you would have in California or New York.
For example, the state I live, Washington , has no state income tax and therefore I pay a fraction the taxes that any European would pay and even most Americans. Of course, there are property and other taxes, but Europe, usually is much higher in every regard. Just look how much it cost to fill up a tank a gas in Europe. What is it now, like $9 a gallon? Convert to liters. LOL I think London was also rated to be more expensive to live than New York City, but the salaries are actually lower on average and taxes much higher.
Israel, is almost like a soft-communist, heavily socialist nation. The Kibbutzim were good folk (my mother was one for a while), but the communist mindset did not exactly leave a lot of the immigrants when they left the Iron Curtain.
If a person makes over $150,000 in Israel they will have half their income (48%) raped from them.. That rivals even the worst of the European Socialist nations. Taxation like that murders small businesses which are an essential component to any country's financial and economic backbone.
Don't worry, I'm fine- in fact many of you would be quite surprised about Jews in Ukraine. I speak Ukrainian (in fact I can barely put a sentence together in Russian) and discuss politics with non-Jewish Ukrainians all the time at work. Most Ukrainians here are smart and know that many Ukrainian Jews are not just agents of RuSSia like the leftist filth. In fact in Dnipropetrovsk there was a pro-Israel protest against terrorism, and the participants were all speaking in Ukrainian, which is funny because it's a mostly Russian-speaking city.
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UJ,
Personal question.... Are you circumcised? My friends who recently came from Ukraine said that Jews who are circumcised are mocked in school... I hope that you have the brit, and are not mocked...
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UJ,
Personal question.... Are you circumcised? My friends who recently came from Ukraine said that Jews who are circumcised are mocked in school... I hope that you have the brit, and are not mocked...
Yes I am. I know in America some Christians and Atheists circumcise their children. I don't know about in Ukraine. I wouldn't know and no one's ever noticed that I am because they wouldn't ever be in a position to see! :yuck: I haven't seen about others but honestly I think being uncircumcised is quite disgusting and unclean.
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I agree with everything EJA44 says but Israel stands no hope of getting better if right-wing Jews refuse to make aliyah. You need to be idealistic, EJ.
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UJ,
Personal question.... Are you circumcised? My friends who recently came from Ukraine said that Jews who are circumcised are mocked in school... I hope that you have the brit, and are not mocked...
Oh and on the topic of circumcision:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/circumcision-rates-declining-health-risks-rising-study-says/
So I love it when people call Jews "barbarians" for circumcising newborns. Because everyone who wants to remain clean and not have to worry about carrying all kinds of disease and infections is really gross!
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I agree with everything EJA44 says but Israel stands no hope of getting better if right-wing Jews refuse to make aliyah. You need to be idealistic, EJ.
I won't do much good in Israel if I am rotting in an Israeli prison, ChaimFan.. Perhaps, you need to understand that.. Obviously, if Chaim went to Israel he would also be immediately imprisoned and what good could he do then? How many Jewish Nationalists are rotting in Israeli prisons as we speak? I cannot be unarmed in any country where Muslims are almost 25% of the population. Not to mention all the African Muslim illegal immigrants who now are populating all of South Israel and who are armed to the teeth and have more rights than Israeli citizens do. If I live in Israel, considering I am not going to submit the the totalitarian authority and all their evil nazi-like draconian laws, I will end up being arrested and left to rot in an Israeli prison surrouneded by Islamic terrorists, most likely. Either that or they will straight up deport me and ban me. Also, I will refuse to hide my feelings of JDL/Kach party allegiance and I hear it is almost an automatic deportation if they find out you in any way have any affiliation with JDL/Kach style politics.
Basically, there is no real Israelite nation ruled by Jewish people, it is the United Nations (Israel Mandate).. The UN runs the show and has installed some draconian dictators to tend to the sheep. It is not much of a different situation from when Caesar ruled the Middle East and installed Jewish nobleman to keep his Jewish subjects in line. It always looks better to take orders from one of your own then from a tyrannical foreign master in a land far away. Nonetheless, it is the tyrannical master from far away who rules the land of Israel.
Kahane said every Jew must be armed.. That is not possible in Israel.. Israel is just one big shtetl ruled by a bunch of ruthless Czars. Jews are second class... I wouldn't be surprised if Israel eventually decides to even dismantle its nuclear arsenal in the name of peace.
If people like Hanin Zoabi have the potential of becoming Prime Minister of Israel, gaining seats in the Knesset, I know that this country is pretty much not for real. It is just a big puppet show.
Israel is in need of a serious revolution.. America was founded by a Revolution from its colonial masters. It is about time Israel is freed from its colonial masters. Just being helpless colonists is not going to make you any less free and liberated.
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Yes I am. I know in America some Christians and Atheists circumcise their children. I don't know about in Ukraine. I wouldn't know and no one's ever noticed that I am because they wouldn't ever be in a position to see! :yuck: I haven't seen about others but honestly I think being uncircumcised is quite disgusting and unclean.
NOT to be rude to anyone. .. but not being circumcised is kinda gross. As far as I know most Americans are...
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NOT to be rude to anyone. .. but not being circumcised is kinda gross. As far as I know most Americans are...
I agree, and unfortunately the reports say that the amount of people being circumcised is decreasing. Also half of all uncircumcised men may contract some disease at some point in their lives.
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I am amazed at the amount of anti-circumcision sites are out there. Most of them are openly anti-semitic too...
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I am amazed at the amount of anti-circumcision sites are out there. Most of them are openly anti-semitic too...
I'm not saying we should be anti-anti-circumcision, but, it would make a point – who's the barbarian here? Exposing your children to a possible lifetime of filth and infection seems quite barbaric. What woman would want to reproduce with someone carrying filth and uncleanliness? On the other hand Islamic organizations would get involved because they also circumcise, and they would change it from Jews saying "respect our traditions" to Muslims saying "we will behead all infidels etc. blah blah blah by checking whether they are uncut", as in, the usual halal barbarism. In fact judging by how much these pseudo-humanitarians love Islam, maybe we can promote circumcision by saying that Muslims do it, therefore it's good, and the leftists will rush to our aid.
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I'm not saying we should be anti-anti-circumcision, but, it would make a point – who's the barbarian here? Exposing your children to a possible lifetime of filth and infection seems quite barbaric. What woman would want to reproduce with someone carrying filth and uncleanliness? On the other hand Islamic organizations would get involved because they also circumcise, and they would change it from Jews saying "respect our traditions" to Muslims saying "we will behead all infidels etc. blah blah blah by checking whether they are uncut", as in, the usual halal barbarism. In fact judging by how much these pseudo-humanitarians love Islam, maybe we can promote circumcision by saying that Muslims do it, therefore it's good, and the leftists will rush to our aid.
Jews do not circumcise for any other reason than because Hashem commanded us to. It is called the Brit, a covenant between Hashem and the Jewish nation. We did it long before the medical community considered it healthy, and we will continue to do it when the medical community doesn't consider it healthy.
Hashem commanded our father Abraham to circumcise his sons. Yitzak was the 1st Jew who was circumcised on the eight day and the tradition was passed down from father to son, for over 3000 years.
Same thing with Kashrut (the laws of Kosher)... We do not do it for any health benefits. If it is considered healthy, then that is an advantage, but we would continue keeping kosher even if it was not especially healthy. A Jew does the commandments for one reason, and one reason only, because our G-d commanded us to..
anti-circumcision usually ends up being anti-semitism...
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Jews do not circumcise for any other reason than because Hashem commanded us to. It is called the Brit, a covenant between Hashem and the Jewish nation. We did it long before the medical community considered it healthy, and we will continue to do it when the medical community doesn't consider it healthy.
Hashem commanded our father Abraham to circumcise his sons. Yitzak was the 1st Jew who was circumcised on the eight day and the tradition was passed down from father to son, for over 3000 years.
Same thing with Kashrut (the laws of Kosher)... We do not do it for any health benefits. If it is considered healthy, then that is an advantage, but we would continue keeping kosher even if it was not especially healthy. A Jew does the commandments for one reason, and one reason only, because our G-d commanded us to..
anti-circumcision usually ends up being anti-semitism...
I think that Hashem would command us to do what is pure and healthy, but of course it must be obeyed.
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I think that Hashem would command us to do what is pure and healthy, but of course it must be obeyed.
Some people suggest that eating pork is Ok today because at the time the Torah was written the eating of pork was dangerous (due to trichinosis) but today it is not dangerous.... We say to them, "We do not keep kosher because of health, rather we keep kosher because Hashem commanded it"... Same with circumcision. Some say that if you keep clean there is no problem with being uncircumcised (several of the sites I briefly looked at when I posted my comment above made this argument)... Again whether or not todays hygiene is better than 3000 years ago is irrelevant.
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Some people suggest that eating pork is Ok today because at the time the Torah was written the eating of pork was dangerous (due to trichinosis) but today it is not dangerous.... We say to them, "We do not keep kosher because of health, rather we keep kosher because Hashem commanded it"... Same with circumcision. Some say that if you keep clean there is no problem with being uncircumcised (several of the sites I briefly looked at when I posted my comment above made this argument)... Again whether or not todays hygiene is better than 3000 years ago is irrelevant.
But there is much to love about a religion that encourages health. As opposed to Islam where people mutilate themselves.
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However, I do not feel now is the time for me to make aliyah under current conditions. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that every JEw on the earth should be in Israel
Ok but don't you see how these 2 statements don't make logical sense? If every Jew said like you do, then the very opposite of "every Jew on earth in Israel" would be the case as no one would go. That is a self fulfilling prophesy and a deadly one. Can you imagine if instead of zionsm people ssaid "well no living under the turks or british is not acceptable to me so I won't go til their gone. It was the very people who found that unacceptable who were the ones to oust the turks and then the british!
At some point you have to look in the mirror and admit that you are not living up to our obligations. I readily admit that about myself. And some of your observations about the suicidal nature of the current leadership plays a big part in my own reservations about going, but I also know it's not an excuse. My main point is that we cannot invent our own Judaism and pretend that it condones the exile or somehow kashers our behaviior no matter what calculations one thinks up.
and that Israel should be a powerful, Jewish nations ruled by Jewish leaders who support Jewish people and
There will be no Hanin Zoabis or Hamas in the future Israel I envision. As well, Israeli citizens will be more free in Israel and liberated than anywhere else on the Earth. It will be truly a place where JEws will rejoice and be empowered, not be weakened and hampered by outside nations.
Again this is just a way of saying, when it's perfect there I will go. Are you familiar with the sin of the spies? If so please explain how this is different.
You were mentioning the Ottoman Empire.. At times I wonder which occupier of Israel is worse, the Ottomans or the United Nations? The United Nations is the current ruler of Israel, the people living there are subjects of this autocratic regime. I told you I would refuse to live under Ottoman Islamic rule. Well, I actually think living in under the rule of the UN/EU is equally bad. At least we knew the Ottomans were invaders and the enemy. The United Nations, however, acts as a noble entity who makes its indentured subjects feel they are free, but in reality are every bit as enslaved. Israel is operating in suicide mode with its politics and Israel's politics is more about appeasing its foreign master as well as its puppet leaders staying in power. No other rational country in this world would allow itself to operate in this manner.
They are both nightmares.living under muslim sovereiignty was a NIGHTMARE. Ask some sefardi friends and their older relatives. In any event the ottomans are long dead so it's irrelevant.
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Man, typing comments thru my phone over the past few years has cccaused me so many typos, it's embarrassing!
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UJ,
Personal question.... Are you circumcised? My friends who recently came from Ukraine said that Jews who are circumcised are mocked in school... I hope that you have the brit, and are not mocked...
The vast majority of ethnic Jews from FSU, are not circumcised. Since they are only ethnically Jewish (not religiously Jewish).
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The Idf was forced into a confrontation he didn't want but once they entered the war it was to kill as many Jewish fighters as they could, families of victims must sue idf that has become a business to invent new arms to sell to export and send Jewish soldiers to experiment them on the battelfield like the nassizombi did, noone seems to notice quite visible how it's similar with what happened during ww2.