JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: NoMosqueHere on September 15, 2014, 07:59:06 PM
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Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) criticized Zuck on the floor of the Senate for his fanatical support for amnesty.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387726/dont-give-masters-universe-their-amnesty-jeff-sessions?splash=
Here's a sample of Sessions' remarks:
White House officials are meeting with the world’s most powerful corporate and immigration lobbyists and activists who think border controls are for the little people. The administration is meeting with the elite, the cosmopolitan set, who scorn and mock the concerns of everyday Americans who are concerned about their schools, jobs, wages, communities, and hospitals. These great and powerful citizens of the world don’t care much about old-fashioned things like national boundaries, national sovereignty, and immigration control — let alone the constitutional separation of powers.
One of the groups that have joined the chorus of special interests demanding executive action on immigration is FWD.us, run by Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg. He just turned 30, and I understand he is worth about $30 billion.
Mr. Zuckerberg has been very busy recently. One of his fellow billionaires, Mr. Carlos Slim — maybe the world’s richest man — invited Mr. Zuckerberg down to Mexico City to give a speech. What did Mr. Zuckerberg promote in his speech? Well, this is a report of it.
I guess I will first note that young Mr. Zuckerberg maybe doesn’t know there is a deep American tradition — a tradition in most developed nations — that you don’t go to a foreign capital to criticize your own government. I suppose he doesn’t know about that. They probably didn’t teach him about that when he was at one of the elite schools he attended.
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I doubt Zuckerberg causes antisemitism... There is NO reason for Jew hatred, it is irrational, and to try to blame Jews for it is antisemitic in itself. Like those who blame Israel for antisemitism, those who blame liberal Jews for antisemitism, it is all excuses... Jew haters will hate for whatever reason..
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If it was just about open borders, anti-Semites would hate and want dead *anyone* pushing for it. But you never see such virulence directed at, for example the Roman Catholic Church, or the various Lutheran charities that push for Nigerians to come to America. Now granted, these anti-Semites will criticize the above mentioned groups. But they don't hate these group with fury that they reserve for the Jews.
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Self hating Jews like zuckerberg is the reason why anti Semites are violent against Jews.
If Jews were like the Maccabees or kahane, it wouldn't eliminate anti semitism, but at least they would think twice before they try to mess with us.
It's when Jews do bad things that lead to bad things that lead to anti Semites to say, "where is your god?"
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Schmuckerberg deserves to die of cancer.
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Zuckerberg causes Zuckerberg hatred.
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this guy is moving away from the weak mortals as he ascends to become G d of facebook.
and yes, people like him do make goys hate jews.
If all I know are marc zuck and hollyweird jews, I would hate jews entirely.
there is no excuse for weak self hatred. nobody respects weaklings. better to be strong and hated for the right reasons than weak and hated for stupid reasons and be put in a ovens or in current times be drowned at sea (what the 'rabs say).
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I doubt Zuckerberg causes antisemitism... There is NO reason for Jew hatred, it is irrational, and to try to blame Jews for it is antisemitic in itself. Like those who blame Israel for antisemitism, those who blame liberal Jews for antisemitism, it is all excuses... Jew haters will hate for whatever reason..
....so whats the reason for jew hatred?
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I think Zuckerberg does cause anti-semitism by promoting only wicked causes that are chillul Hashem. If Zuckerberg and other billionaires used their money to be a light onto the nations it would be a different story.
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....so whats the reason for jew hatred?
As I have said many times... There is NO REASON for Jew hatred. It goes beyond any reason and usually ends up being an excuse for hating Jews. For every reason stated here I can bring opposite reasons which are just as 'valid'. I think Zuckerberg faces a lot of antisemitism because he is rich, and the stereotype of Jews is that we are rich, selfish, and care only about Jewish causes. But in truth Zuckerberg, while rich, does not contribute to many Jewish causes (at least not that I am aware of). In his case the Jew hatred is simply because he is rich. Similarly Bill Gates, who is not a Jew, never had the amount of Jew hatred as Zuckerberg and Bill Gates has given to many more evil causes. Bill Gates was even accused of being a Jew by the nazis.
When the antisemites use the Octopus image in their antisemitism it is clear they are referring to the International Jewish problem which envisions a huge Jewish conspiracy (straight from the pages of the false libel Protocols of the Elders of Zion).
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/25/article-2567167-1BCDD55000000578-343_634x368.jpg)
Again I sincerely doubt that Zuckerbergs position on Immigration has ANY impact on Jew haters opinions of Jews. Those who will hate Jews because of this will hate Jews for any reason.
http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=760
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but m, those are evil jews you point out including the honorary jew bill gates. either evil or just self hating. again, nobody respects them. funny how good jews are not mentioned and dare I say, not hated, just not counted.
it seems you are subconsciously allowing the hollyweird type jews represent all jews.
no reason for jew hatred. by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. hey, it can't be that all nazis are bad. so why not say don't judge all nazis? or dont generalize all nazis?
so how are you going to tell all of europe they can't judge jews? I think its better to condemn evil jews and praise good ones. the king of facebook may not even think he's doing evil. on the other hand, obviously evil jews include communists/socialist jews in washington DC and barbara Streisand.
and no one should be offended because I did not damn any good jew or anyone who isn't clearly evil.
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Jew hatred didn't start today nor in this generation.
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but m, those are evil jews you point out including the honorary jew bill gates. either evil or just self hating. again, nobody respects them. funny how good jews are not mentioned and dare I say, not hated, just not counted.
it seems you are subconsciously allowing the hollyweird type jews represent all jews.
no reason for jew hatred. by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. hey, it can't be that all nazis are bad. so why not say don't judge all nazis? or dont generalize all nazis?
so how are you going to tell all of europe they can't judge jews? I think its better to condemn evil jews and praise good ones. the king of facebook may not even think he's doing evil. on the other hand, obviously evil jews include communists/socialist jews in washington DC and barbara Streisand.
and no one should be offended because I did not damn any good jew or anyone who isn't clearly evil.
Look at history... No matter what Jews are hated, whether they are good or bad... The hate of the Nazis was not because of bad Jews, it was because Hitler wanted to destroy what Jews represented (the good). You are looking for an excuse for hating Jews and that is the problem. Look at antisemitism throughout history, it has nothing to do with what the Jews do or do not do.
They hate us because we killed their messiah. They hate us for being capitalist, they hate us for being communist, they hate us for being rich, they hate us for being poor, they hate us for assimilating with their 'pure blood', they hate us for being clannish and keeping to ourselves.
Those looking to justify antisemitism will discover there is no reason for it. It is an irrational hatred of Jews.
No matter how much Jews, or the Jewish state, attempt to look 'good' in the eyes of the gentile nations we will never be recognized for this good. ACK, I think you are naive when it comes to this.
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And what do you mean no reason to hate Hitler, yemach shemo vezichro... He and his minions launched an attack against World Jewery because of antisemitic sentiments which existed for 400-1000 years beforehand. Because of Christian Jew hatred which was popular in Germany because of the cursed Martin Luther who called for all synagogues to be burned, and forcing Jews to wear yellow badges.
Nazi Jew hatred had nothing to do with whether Jews were 'good' or 'bad.
All Nazis are BAD because their belief calls for exterminating Jews....
I cannot believe you are making such foolish comments ACK.
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Hey ACK, maybe you agree with some of Hitlers ideas now that you are showing some of your antisemitic beliefs.
Hitler Quotes
“The struggle for world domination will be fought entirely between us, between Germans and Jews. All else is facade and illusion. Behind England stands Israel, and behind France, and behind the United States. Even when we have driven the Jew out of Germany, he remains our world enemy.
- Rauschning,Hitler Speaks,p. 234
“...the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
We are the joyous Hitler youth,
We do not need any Christian virtue
Our leader is our savior
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone
We want to be pagans once again.”
- Song sung by Hitler youth
“They refer to me as an uneducated barbarian. Yes, we are barbarians. We want to be barbarians, it is an honored title to us. We shall rejuvenate the world. This world is near its end.”
- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 87
“Providence has ordained that I should be the greatest liberator of humanity. I am freeing man from the restraints of an intelligence that has taken charge, from the dirty and degrading self-mortification of a false vision called conscience and morality, and from the demands of a freedom and independence which only a very few can bear.”
- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 222
“The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision.”
- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 220
“. . . the discovery of the Jewish virus is one of the greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged today is of the same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch. How many diseases have their origin in the Jewish virus! ... We shall regain our health only be eliminating the Jew.”
- Adolf Hitler (quoted in Burleigh and Wippermann, Racial State, p. 107)
“If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Tanach, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it.”
- Robert Wistrich, Hitler's Apocalypse, p. 122; from a conversation with Croatian Foreign Minister General Kvaternik, July 21, 1941
“The internal expurgation of the Jewish spirit is not possible in any platonic way. For the Jewish spirit is the product of the Jewish person. Unless we expel the Jewish people. Unless we expel the Jewish people soon, they will have judaized our people within a very short time.”
- Jackel, Hitler's Worldview, p. 52; from a speech at Nuremberg, January 13, 1923
“The heaviest blow which ever struck humanity was Christianity; Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew.”
- Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, trans., (Oxford, 1953), Hitler's Table-Talk, p. 7
“The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”
- Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, trans., (Oxford, 1953), Hitler's Table-Talk, p. 51
“.. Do you now appreciate the depth of our National Socialist Movement? Can there be anything greater and more all comprehending? Those who see in National Socialism nothing more than a political movement know scarcely anything of it. It is more even than religion; it is the will to create mankind anew.”
- Rauschning,Hitler Speaks
“The earth continues to go round, whether it’s the man who kills the tiger or the tiger who eats the man. The stronger asserts his will, it’s the law of nature. The world doesn’t change; its laws are eternal.”
- Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, trans., (Oxford, 1953),
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Anyone who hates Jews because of Barbara Streisand is a fool.
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And don't let me hear anyone start suggesting I am excusing any bad behavior. There are Jews who do evil and they are exposed for doing evil. But when Jew haters start using bad Jews as an excuse for hating the Jewish people that is where the boundaries have been crossed. There are bad people in every population and it should not reflect on the entire people. Jews have been on the receiving end of a hell of a lot of hatred in the last 2000+ years, and to hear the excuses is sadly laughable.
But let me add that I don't consider him evil for his position. I have had discussions with rabbis I respect who believe that immigration should be made easier. As the Jewish people have been on the other side of the immigration fence (during the 20th century almost 80% of the Jewish population emigrated, my family included). During WWII the quotas for Jews was pathetically low. Boats with Jews fleeing the atrocities of Nazi Germany were turned back and sent to Germany where the Jews met certain death.
I stand against Amnesty for illegals though. I think more effort must be put into legal immigration.
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huh? is that what I said? so now you think I love hitler? so now I'm anti Semitic? I never was. If I hate evil jews, you have a problem with that? you should also hate evil jews.
man, you really look too much at things. you over interpret things.
If I hate italian gansters, does that mean I hate all italians?
if I hate black murderers, does that mean I hate all blacks?
if I hate krappy hollyweird jews like barbara Streisand, does that mean I hate all jews?
I've been following jtf since 1998 or 99 without fail. I've donated money in my early days. I've seen people come and go. I'm still here.
let go of that fist. I'm not your enemy. would I still be talking to you?
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And what do you mean no reason to hate Hitler, yemach shemo vezichro... He and his minions launched an attack against World Jewery because of antisemitic sentiments which existed for 400-1000 years beforehand. Because of Christian Jew hatred which was popular in Germany because of the cursed Martin Luther who called for all synagogues to be burned, and forcing Jews to wear yellow badges.
Nazi Jew hatred had nothing to do with whether Jews were 'good' or 'bad.
All Nazis are BAD because their belief calls for exterminating Jews....
I cannot believe you are making such foolish comments ACK.
I said "by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. " by your logic. your logic.
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Hey ACK, maybe you agree with some of Hitlers ideas now that you are showing some of your antisemitic beliefs.
I said: "by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. " by YOUR logic. YOU. Mr Uman.
YOU. YOUR logic. that means If I go by YOUR reasoning. YOU.
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Anyone who hates Jews because of Barbara Streisand is a fool.
I'll try again.
I don't like barbarian streisand. not jews. I did not say I don't like jews. don't put words in my mouth like you put words in other people's mouths all the time.
put down that marijuana that you think everyone should be smoking.
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I'll try again.
I don't like barbarian streisand. not jews. I did not say I don't like jews. don't put words in my mouth like you put words in other people's mouths all the time.
put down that marijuana that you think everyone should be smoking.
You stop making stuff up. I never said I think everyone should smoke marijuana. What is wrong with you with all this slander?
You don't understand the difference between condemning Italian gangsters and hating all Italians? That is strange. Antisemitism means hating Jews (the Jewish people) not hating individual Jews. When an antisemite sees a Jew who he doesn't agree with on a topic and resorts to antisemitic cannards (big nose, rich, selfish, christ killer, global conspiracy, spawn of satan, etc.) then it is antisemitism.
Same thing with Zuckerberg, if someone doesn't like his opinion as a person then that is fine. If they call him a 'dirty Jew' and condemn the entire Jewish people he is an antisemitic piece of garbage.
Do you understand?
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And don't let me hear anyone start suggesting I am excusing any bad behavior. There are Jews who do evil and they are exposed for doing evil. But when Jew haters start using bad Jews as an excuse for hating the Jewish people that is where the boundaries have been crossed. There are bad people in every population and it should not reflect on the entire people. Jews have been on the receiving end of a hell of a lot of hatred in the last 2000+ years, and to hear the excuses is sadly laughable.
But let me add that I don't consider him evil for his position. I have had discussions with rabbis I respect who believe that immigration should be made easier. As the Jewish people have been on the other side of the immigration fence (during the 20th century almost 80% of the Jewish population emigrated, my family included). During WWII the quotas for Jews was pathetically low. Boats with Jews fleeing the atrocities of Nazi Germany were turned back and sent to Germany where the Jews met certain death.
I stand against Amnesty for illegals though. I think more effort must be put into legal immigration.
where do you get all this stuff from?
you way over interpret stuff.
did you have a bad day at work? drivers cut you off? slow drivers?
how do you come up with this stuff? now I'm a hitler worshiper. I better hide my hitler statue.
I recommend Dr Josh. Please call him at (415) 902-9422.
Dr. Joshua Israel
3329 Sacramento St
San Francisco, CA 94118
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By my logic it is correct, if you hate a Jewish person and then extrapolate that to hate all Jews, you are an antisemite... Simple logic..
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where do you get all this stuff from?
you way over interpret stuff.
did you have a bad day at work? drivers cut you off? slow drivers?
how do you come up with this stuff? now I'm a hitler worshiper. I better hide my hitler statue.
I recommend Dr Josh. Please call him at (415) 902-9422.
Dr. Joshua Israel
3329 Sacramento St
San Francisco, CA 94118
Where do I get it from... Simple... I have studied and learned what antisemitism is...
If you would like I could point you in the direction to do some learning.
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Do you see the antisemitism in the picture of Zuckerberg I posted?
The big nose, the octopus, these are standard nazi attacks on Jews.
Here are some cartoons from Der Sturmer, a Nazi publication from the 20s-30s.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/OctopusNAS1.jpg)
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/03/2f/91/032f91f1925ff0ddb4b84270fea20b96.jpg)
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You stop making stuff up. I never said I think everyone should smoke marijuana. What is wrong with you with all this slander?
You don't understand the difference between condemning Italian gangsters and hating all Italians? That is strange. Antisemitism means hating Jews (the Jewish people) not hating individual Jews. When an antisemite sees a Jew who he doesn't agree with on a topic and resorts to antisemitic cannards (big nose, rich, selfish, christ killer, global conspiracy, spawn of satan, etc.) then it is antisemitism.
Same thing with Zuckerberg, if someone doesn't like his opinion as a person then that is fine. If they call him a 'dirty Jew' and condemn the entire Jewish people he is an antisemitic piece of garbage.
Do you understand?
now you stop making stuff up. when did I call marc a dirty jew? when did I condemn the entire jewish people? I am pointing out individual people. you are the one labeling them "jew".
anyway despite you're total lack of understanding. You're still a good person who just happens to be a jew.
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now you stop making stuff up. when did I call marc a dirty jew? when did I condemn the entire jewish people? I am pointing out individual people. you are the one labeling them "jew".
anyway despite you're total lack of understanding. You're still a good person who just happens to be a jew.
ACK,
I am not accusing you of these things. I am trying to explain why antisemitism goes beyond just beyond condemning an individual Jew.
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ACK,
The topic of this thread concerns whether a single Jew makes people antisemitic... I argue NO it doesn't...
But some people think that because one Jew is bad, thus we all are... That is antisemitism.
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By my logic it is correct, if you hate a Jewish person and then extrapolate that to hate all Jews, you are an antisemite... Simple logic..
no. if i happen to hate evil jew or evil blacks or evil chinese like mao, I'm not hating an entire race or people.
Lisa adds:
If you hate someone as an individual, then it follows that you hate them for the bad things they've done, whether they're Jewish, black, white or whatever. Is that what you're trying to say?
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Where do I get it from... Simple... I have studied and learned what antisemitism is...
If you would like I could point you in the direction to do some learning.
sure. why not.
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Do you see the antisemitism in the picture of Zuckerberg I posted?
The big nose, the octopus, these are standard nazi attacks on Jews.
Here are some cartoons from Der Sturmer, a Nazi publication from the 20s-30s.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/OctopusNAS1.jpg)
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/03/2f/91/032f91f1925ff0ddb4b84270fea20b96.jpg)
yeah. I saw them.
but you posted them. not me.
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I am trying to give examples of what antisemitism is, not accusing you of having it.
They hated us, the good, the bad, and every Jew in between... Not for anything we did..
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Some videos which deal with Christian anti-semitism to Nazi (& neo-nazi) antisemitism..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrIXvE_cmI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqvTlhkOVUE
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/reason-for-anti-semitism.htm
Anti-Semitism is unique amongst the hatreds in the world in a combination of four aspects: 1) Longevity -- it's been around a long time 2) Universality -- virtually everywhere in the world 3) Intensity -- it's expressed in a particularly virulent manner 4) Confusion -- there is surprisingly little agreement on why people hate the Jews.
Historians offer many "reasons" to explain why people are anti-Semitic: Jews are too powerful or too lazy; too separate or a threat to "racial purity" through assimilation; pacifistic or warmongers; capitalist exploiters or revolutionary communists; the "killers" of Jesus or the progenitors of Jesus; possessors of a Chosen People mentality or an inferiority complex. These reasons have one thing in common -- they have nothing to do with our being Jewish. One might think that we are just the victims of bad luck -- always possessing the needed quality to be hated wherever we are in the world at exactly that time in history.
Do you know who disagrees with the historians? Anne Frank. Writes Anne Frank on April 11, 1944 in her diary: "Who knows -- it might even be our religion from which the world and all peoples learn good, and for that reason and that reason alone do we now suffer. We can never become just Netherlanders, or just English, or representatives of any other country for that matter. We will always remain Jews."
Anne Frank made a point of stressing that Jews have something of special value to give to the world, and that is precisely what the world has resented, and that is why people have persecuted Jews. Anne Frank identifies anti-Semitism as a hatred of Jewishness, a loathing altogether different from the bigotry or racism that other peoples experience.
The Talmud (Tractate Shabbos 69) cites the source of anti-Semitism using a play on words: The Torah - the source of the Jewish system of laws, values and moral standards - was received at Mount Sinai. The Hebrew pronunciation of "Sinai" is almost identical to the Hebrew word for "hatred" - sinah. "Why was the Torah given on a mountain called Sinai?" asks the Talmud. "Because the great sinah - the tremendous hatred aimed at the Jew - emanates from Sinai."
At Sinai Jews were told that there is one God, Who makes moral demands on all of humanity. Consequently, at Sinai the Jewish nation became the target for the hatred of those whose strongest drive is to liberate mankind from the shackles of conscience and morality.
At Sinai the Jewish nation was appointed to be "a light unto the nations." There are those who embrace Jews and the Jewish faith because of that light; but there are also those who want the world to be a place of spiritual darkness. They object to morality. Those would-be harbingers of darkness attack the Jews as the lightning rod for their hatred. This "call to Sinai" - the message entrusted to and borne by the Jews - ultimately transforms the world. Yet, it is this very message that draws forth the wrath of those who would give their last ounce of strength to resist it.
A great many people simply can't cope with the burden of being good. However, when they act in ways that are bad, they can't cope with the resultant feelings of guilt. Try as they may, they can never cut themselves loose from the standards of absolute morality dictated by the Torah. Stuck in this "Catch-22" situation, people turn with their mounting frustrations against the Jews, whom they perceive as personifying humanity's collective conscience.
When the Jews entered the theological arena, they showed people all the mistakes they had been making: Pagan gods are nonsense - there is only one God for all of mankind, Who is invisible, infinite and perfect. Infanticide and human sacrifice are unacceptable. Every human being is born with specific rights. No one can live as he pleases, for everyone must surrender his will to a higher Authority.
On a certain conscious level, people recognize the Jews' message as truth. Those unwilling to embrace the truth have found that the only way to rid themselves of it is to destroy the messengers - for the message itself is too potent to be dismissed.
That is what is so irksome about the Jews, and that is why, for some people, nothing less than total destruction of the Jews will do. If Judaism were just another ideology, people could laugh it off and continue on their merry way. But deep in his soul, every human being recognizes the essential truths of morality - people can't just laugh it off.
For the last 2,000 years the Jewish people have gone through enormous amounts of persecution, hatred - ultimately leading to genocide. And through it all, the Jewish people always held onto being Jewish. And the reason why is that they really understood that it was worth it. They understood what the meaning of being Jewish was, and they were willing to pay the price.
The pain that is part and parcel of being Jewish is obvious; if people cannot see any meaning to that pain, it is unlikely that they will be willing to stand by their Jewish identity. That is why we find such widespread assimilation today - Jews do not see why they should "lose out" on life and set themselves apart from their host societies.
If we can come to understand why Jews are so hated, we can understand who Jews are and, more important, who Jews can be. A powerful effort has been made to remove the Jewish element from anti-Semitism, and in doing so, to ignore the critical message anti-Semitism teaches about the uniqueness and preciousness of the Jew. This alone is a compelling reason for Jews to learn about anti-Semitism and what it means to be a Jew.
This article appeared in the Aish HaTorah Shabbat Shalom Fax written by Rabbi Kalman Packouz; it was based on the "Why the Jews?" seminar which is available online at http://www.aish.com/seminars/whythejews/
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ACK,
...
... because one Jew is bad, thus we all are... That is antisemitism.
that would be correct. But I did not say that.
so what happened? am I still a hitler worshiper? can I put my hitler statue back up on my altar?
sometimes when I say "flattering" things about hitler its in the same way as when I say "flattering" things about obongo. (in other posts)
I'm not worshiping either.
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http://www.aish.com/sem/wtj/82878122.html
The Big Six
Examining more frequently offered reasons for anti-Semitism.
Maybe Jews are hated simply because they are different. Traditionally, Jews were characterized by different dress, different laws and sometimes, even a different language. Certainly this discrimination is what the Chinese experienced in early America, and what the Frenchman experienced in England. Sociologists refer to this phenomenon as "the dislike of the unlike."
This theory sounds like a sensible cause for anti-Semitism: Jews have been hated because they were different. Throughout history, Jews kept to themselves. Their ethical, cultural and social systems were different from those of their neighbors. Most pointedly, the Jews' fondest dream was always their return to Zion. They were law-abiding citizens who contributed to their host nations and even took to the battlefield to defend it, but their hearts always pointed in the direction of the Promised Land. It is undeniably true that throughout history, Jews were the ultimate "outsiders."
But what happens when Jews shed their cultural differences and become genuine "insiders"? If the Outsider Theory is correct, then the solution to anti-Semitism should be assimilation. Anti-Semitism should decrease in ratio to the Jews' ability to integrate into their host societies. Is this really what happens?
In the 18th century, the Enlightenment reached Europe, giving equal rights to all people, regardless of religion.
In December 1789, during a discussion in the French National Assembly in which French Jews were granted equal rights, Count Stanislas de Clermont-Tonnere declared: "To the Jews as individuals, everything. To the Jews as a nation, nothing."
The Jews of Europe jumped at the opportunity to attain equality, hoping at long last to rid themselves of the "dislike of the unlike" phenomenon. They shed their foreign dress, shaved off their beards, and attended universities and theaters. They adopted the language, culture and styles of their non-Jewish neighbors, and intermarried with them. They purged their prayers of any mention of the return to Zion. In short, they became more French than the French.
Napoleon was quick to capitalize on this development of Jews adapting to French culture. In 1807, he convened a kangaroo court to pressure the Jews to shed any lingering commitment to Jewish nationhood, forcing the Jews to declare their exclusive loyalty to France.
Jewish acceptance of this attitude widened. In Germany, Reform Jews declared, "Berlin is our Jerusalem; Germany is our Fatherland." Having endured centuries of hatred, the Jews of Europe anticipated a warm welcome from their gentile neighbors.
But they were sorely disappointed. The Dreyfuss affair, in which falsified charges of treason were brought against a Jewish French officer, was contrived to show that Jews could never be loyal citizens of their host countries.
Shortly thereafter, Hitler's rise to power once again pulled the rug out from under the Jews' sense of security in their assimilationist approach. Nazism sent a strong message to Jews: We hate you, not because you're different, but because you're trying to become like us! We cannot allow you to infect the Aryan race with your inferior genes.
So long as Jews remained outsiders, the Outsider Theory reflected some degree of logic. Once the Jews attempted to become insiders, the Outsider Theory was dashed to pieces ― because it never had been the real cause of the hatred.
The Racial Theory
This gave rise to a new excuse: the inferiority of the Jewish race. You can shed the external trappings of your life, shave your beard, get rid of your yarmulke, even change your religion. But you can never change your race.
The overriding problem with this theory is that it is self-contradictory: Jews are not a race. Anyone can become a Jew ― and members of every race, creed and color in the world have done so at one time or another.
There is no distinguishing racial physical feature common only to Jews. Even the idea of a "Jewish nose" is a myth. Anti-Semites don't hate only those Jews who have distinctively Jewish physical features; they hate all Jews. They hate Eastern European Jews; they hate Israeli, Russian and Yemenite Jews; they hate blond, blue-eyed Dutch Jews, as well as dark-skinned, Mediterranean Jews. Any Jew will do.
Anti-Semitism cannot be explained as racism for the very simple reason that Jews are a nation, not a race.
Unique Hatred
We have touched on the six most common explanations for the phenomenon of anti-Semitism. None of these standard reasons holds up as the core reason for anti-Semitism. Under scrutiny, they prove to be mere excuses. We must look afresh at this hatred to find a true root cause.
Of all discriminatory forms for hatred, anti-Semitism is unique in four ways:
1) Longevity ― anti-Semitism has been going on for an exceptionally long time. One of the most authoritative books on anti-Semitism is The Anguish of the Jews: A History of Anti-Semitism, authored by a Catholic priest Edward Flannery. He writes:
As a historian of anti-Semitism looks back over the millennia of horrors he has recorded, an inescapable conclusion emerges. Anti-Semitism is different because of its longevity and consistency.
2) Universality ― anti-Semitism is found worldwide. Throughout history, in every region where Jews have lived, they have been hated. No matter where they settle, no matter whom their host, anti-Semitism eventually rears its ugly head.
Between the years 250 C.E. and 1948 ― a period of 1,700 years ― Jews in Europe experienced an average of one expulsion every 21 years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and 71 other countries.
3) Intensity ― hatred against the Jews is vented in a particularly virulent way. A group that is hated usually becomes the butt of ethnic jokes, and is subject to discrimination. Jews, on the other hand, are subject to attempts at genocide. The Chmelnicki pogroms, the Holocaust, and Iran's nuclear threats are attempts to exterminate a people that represent just a tiny minority of the world's population.
4) Confusion ― there is surprisingly little agreement on exactly what anti-Semites hate! When one group hates another, that hatred can be traced to a few simple, well-defined reasons. In Bosnia, people are persecuted over territory and religion; in Ireland, it's national independence and religion. Blacks are hated by some for racial reasons. But no one has yet offered a single, universally-accepted reason to explain why people hate the Jews.
If you will ask an anti-Semite to state his reasons, those reasons are often self-contradictory. Consider this paradox:
• Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race ― but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world.
• Jews are hated for stubbornly maintaining their separateness ― and, when they do assimilate ― for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages.
• Jews are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a Chosen-People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex.
Too Many Reasons Mean No Real Reason
The "Six Reasons" don't hold water ― they are excuses!
Hatred for Jews over the past 2,000 years has been continuous, universal and vicious, but the explanation for that hatred constantly changes. This fact alone alerts us to the need to look for what lies at the core of those explanations.
Picture yourself at a job interview. The interviewer tells you outright that you cannot be considered for the job because you lack computer skills. You enroll in a computer course, and in a month you have gained the necessary skills.
You return to the company, and the interviewer says he tells you he still cannot hire you, because you lack training in finance and management. You study diligently, and within a short time you have mastered the subject.
When you return to the company a third time, you are told that the real reason they cannot hire you is your hairstyle; you simply do not reflect the image the company wishes to represent to the public.
This fiasco sends you a very clear message: The reasons the company had been feeding you all along were nothing but excuses. The interviewer only used excuses to cover up some deeper reason for his refusal to hire you.
This situation is much like the common explanations for anti-Semitism: Even when the reasons are no longer applicable, the anti-Semitism remains.
This does not mean we should totally discount these reasons. Even though they may be excuses and not the source of the hatred, they do influence the masses to hate Jews. They may exacerbate the hatred, but they certainly don't explain it.
The problem is that each of the explanations focuses on issues external to the Jew. They have nothing to do with the essence of the Jew.
What then is The Reason?
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fine. I will watch your videos if it will make you happy. will there be a quiz afterwards?
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that would be correct. But I did not say that.
so what happened? am I still a hitler worshiper? can I put my hitler statue back up on my altar?
sometimes when I say "flattering" things about hitler its in the same way as when I say "flattering" things about obongo. (in other posts)
I'm not worshiping either.
ACK,
I am sorry if I appeared to suggest you support Hitler.... That was just because of one sentence which I took out of context. If you would like I will pin-point that sentence... Of course you are not a supporter of Nazis. I have known you here for several years and consider you an ally.
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fine. I will watch your videos if it will make you happy. will there be a quiz afterwards?
If you would like? I just hope that this infernal hatred will stop some day. But it is good to understand just how much of this we have endured for so long...
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ok fine. I opened the link instead because your plagiarized copy and paste cuts off the rest of the page.
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For instance, the anti-Israel goons say that our Jewish presence in Israel is THE CAUSE of antisemitism (as a recent article by a priest suggested).... As Rabbi Kahane (of blessed memory) pointed out that they hated us before Israel existed as a state, thus the EXCUSE of Israel is just an excuse, not the reason for their hatred.
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If you would like? I just hope that this infernal hatred will stop some day. But it is good to understand just how much of this we have endured for so long...
doesn't it say in the bible that the jews were to be scattered around the world to be hated?
so you are supposed to be hated by the world anyway.
so, I would guess, it won't end.
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doesn't it say in the bible that the jews were to be scattered around the world to be hated?
so you are supposed to be hated by the world anyway.
so, I would guess, it won't end.
It says that we were dispersed from the land (2000 years ago). But I don't know it says we will be hated. Some commentators say (as one of the articles I posted above) that the Torah was given at Mount Sinai because the word Sinai is similar to Sinah (which means hatred)... The nations of the world will hate us because we were the chosen people to receive the Torah at Sinai.
The Torah does say that we will be a nation set apart from the others.
http://rabbibuchwald.njop.org/2010/06/21/balak-5770-2010/
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also, I think the topic actually meant that marc is adding to antisemitism. not that he alone has the power to create antisemitism. that before HIM everyone loved the jews.
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also, I think the topic actually meant that marc is adding to antisemitism. not that he alone has the power to create antisemitism. that before HIM everyone loved the jews.
Again, I think the reason suggested (because he supports Amnesty) is just an excuse...
Are others religions of those who support Amnesty subjected to such hatred?
For instance, Republican Presidential nominee John McCain supports amnesty... Mr McCain is a Baptist Christian.... Do you hear people hating Baptists because of McCains support of Amnesty? (Crickets chirping)...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/25/McCain-Not-Granting-Amnesty-a-Stain-on-America-s-Honor
Also the McCain family has a net worth of $100 million which is more than any Jew I know... So why are Jews subjected to antisemitism for being 'rich' and yet McCain is never called a 'dirty baptist millionaire'?
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Again, I think the reason suggested (because he supports Amnesty) is just an excuse...
Are others religions of those who support Amnesty subjected to such hatred?
I donno. I'm a snake worshiper.
see, you're talking about mental patients.
how about YOU give them reason to respect jews?
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I donno. I'm a snake worshiper.
see, you're talking about mental patients.
how about YOU give them reason to respect jews?
I get respect... I am a proud Jew who keeps the commandments. My co-workers are all supportive of my observance and most are on board with my political view. I don't cower and mince words concerning my pro-Israel, ultra-Zionist intentions.
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Again, I think the reason suggested (because he supports Amnesty) is just an excuse...
Are others religions of those who support Amnesty subjected to such hatred?
For instance, Republican Presidential nominee John McCain supports amnesty... Mr McCain is a Baptist Christian.... Do you hear people hating Baptists because of McCains support of Amnesty? (Crickets chirping)...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/25/McCain-Not-Granting-Amnesty-a-Stain-on-America-s-Honor
Also the McCain family has a net worth of $100 million which is more than any Jew I know... So why are Jews subjected to antisemitism for being 'rich' and yet McCain is never called a 'dirty baptist millionaire'?
no they call him an evil republikkkan.
don't they make fun of catholic priests all the time? come here little boy.
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I get respect... I am a proud Jew who keeps the commandments. My co-workers are all supportive of my observance and most are on board with my political view. I don't cower and mince words concerning my pro-Israel, ultra-Zionist intentions.
ok. your next task is to get people to respect jews beside yourself. that is other jews.
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no they call him an evil republikkkan.
don't they make fun of catholic priests all the time? come here little boy.
Making fun of Catholic priests who were protected by the church is not comparable to antisemitism. There was a real problem in the church which needed to be addressed. I don't think people hate Catholics because of that.
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ok. your next task is to get people to respect jews beside yourself. that is other jews.
Believe me I try, but I am of the belief that they either love us or hate us. If they hate us, that is their problem. If they are in-between I will do what I need to to make them love us.... But it is not worth losing sleep over.
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Believe me I try, but I am of the belief that they either love us or hate us. If they hate us, that is their problem. If they are in-between I will do what I need to to make them love us.... But it is not worth losing sleep over.
ok. good night pal.
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ACK did not say anything meant to be bad!
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ACK did not say anything meant to be bad!
I know he didn't... I think we just miscommunicated.
This sentence he wrote rubbed me the wrong way:
no reason for jew hatred. by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. hey, it can't be that all nazis are bad. so why not say don't judge all nazis? or dont generalize all nazis?
No reason for hating Hitler according to 'my logic'. There is no way according to my logic that Hitler could be cut an inch of slack. Hitler hated all Jews, not just the bad ones... All Nazis hated Jews as it was a core ideal of Nazi-ism...
Once again 'Antisemitism' means hating the Jewish people as a whole, not hating an individual Jew. When a person hates the entire Jewish people because of the doings of a few Jews, that is antisemitism.
In Judaism we learn about Haman, the Amalekite who sought to destroy all the Jews in the world which we remember during the festival of Purim... He hated the entire Jewish population just because one Jew, Mordechai, would not bow to him.... Because of this he got the go-ahead for a extermination of world Jewry.
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Anti-semetism would be alive and well without Zucky. He does at times serve as an excuse for it.
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thanks Ephraim Ben Noach. but this will never end.
anyway. cant force people not to hate jews. but most people are reasonable and so you can convince them otherwise.
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I have come to the conclusion that we shall be hated no matter what.
It does not matter if one is a patriot, it does not matter if one is a Liberal.
They will hate Jews and that is the way it is.
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Yes, Zuckerberg absolutely causes anti-semitism.
Facebook has banned EVERY major right wing Jewish group. Nazis, they are just fine on Facebook spreading their Nazi hatred. Muslims who openly call for a holocaust against the Jewish people, G-d forbid, they are totally fine on Facebook with no problems. Any Jew haters like David Duke aren't a problem at all for Facebook's so-called "community standards". The leftist anti-semites, Jew haters, and anti-Israel hate mongers are protected and made popular on Facebook. If you are a homosexual, you can do anything you want on Facebook and you'll never be taken down. Ever.
But ALL the major right wing Jewish groups have been removed. ALL of them. Not one was left. All of them were banned - us included. Even Chaim and the admins on the Hebrew forum (and many others from other sites) had their PERSONAL Facebook pages removed also.
And why? Because the picture we had up at the top of the girl praying at the wall "violated Facebook community standards". Nazis and violent Muslims calling for death of Jews, that doesn't "violate Facebook community standards".
In other words, they censor and destroy anything that helps or saves the Jewish people. Anything that puts the Jews in danger is totally acceptable.
When Jews are strong, there is much less anti-semitism. And when Jews are weak and self-hating like Zuckerberg, then anti-semitism rises.
Yes. Facebook, that evil site where your physical appearance and artificial "likes" by people you don't even know, and Zuckerberg who is a traitor to the Jewish people, both cause great harm and anti-semitism. So does Google and Youtube and the Jews who own that as well.
The worst enemies of the Jewish people are Jews. Not gentiles. Jews. This is talked about in the Talmud.
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Muman, you need to cool off, jump into a lake.
Shlomo, LKZ, etc.--while I do believe Jew-hatred will always be the way of the world, no matter what, it is undeniable that the behavior of treacherous, evil self-hating Jews can exacerbate it. There is nothing malicious about pointing that fact out.
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The topic of this thread concerns whether a single Jew makes people antisemitic... I argue NO it doesn't...
But some people think that because one Jew is bad, thus we all are... That is antisemitism.
You are very wrong. Zuckerburg and the Jews who own Google and Youtube reach BILLIONS of people. Imagine what they could do to make the world a better place if they were not evil.
No reason for hating Hitler according to 'my logic'.
I hope I am misunderstanding what you are saying. We are required and commanded by Hashem in the Torah to hate Amalek. If you are saying there is no reason to hate Hitler, then that is very evil. We are absolutely required to hate all Nazis and Jew haters everywhere - including the Arab terrorists in Israel who are also Amalek.
Here is a post I was working on about Amalek for the new site. I'll put some of it here. It is relevant.
We are commanded by God to hate and wipe out Amalek - and warned to never forget! Our Sages teach that God says to the Jews, “If you do not remember Amalek, you will be sent back to the bondage of Egypt” (Pesikta Rabati 12). In Exodus we see that Amalek is the nation that attacked the weakest among the Israelites as they fled from Egypt (just like Hamas does with Jews and even their own fellow Muslims!). This transgression was not to go unpunished. The Torah has a harsh prescription for Amalek: annihilation. (Samuel I, 15:3)
And all we ever asked as Kahanists was to throw them out of Israel!
"It shall be that when Hashem, your God, gives you rest from all your enemies all around, in the Land that Hashem, your God, gives you as an inheritance to possess it, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under the heaven. Do not forget it!" (Deuteronomy 25: 19; also see Exodus 17:14 and Numbers 24:20)
Who is Amalek? Amalek was an ancient Middle Eastern nation that had an inborn hatred towards Israel. The Amalekites took any opportunity to attack Jews for absolutely no reason. There was no land dispute or provocation that caused this hatred - it was an intrinsic pathological need to destroy God's people. Such hatred cannot be combated through diplomacy. There was no option to re-educate the Amalekites or review their school curricula. Their hatred was not taught - it was ingrained. As long as an Amalekite walked the earth, no Jew was safe. It was a clear case of kill or be killed. A Jew had to take the command to kill Amalek quite literally - his life depended on it.
“Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt” (1 Samuel 15:2).
Sound familiar? Amalek would be held accountable for his unprovoked attack on the innocent Israelites because of hatred. Nazis are Amalek. The Arabs in Israel that fly the green flag of Hamas are Amalek. Any person who hates the Jews and wants to annihilate and exterminate them because they are God's chosen people is Amalek. Period.
Saul didn't finish off Amalek (which is why they still exist today). So what happened?
“Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, ‘I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands.’ And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the Lord all night” (verses 10-11).
So it's a big deal. And God doesn't care if Obama likes it or if John Kerry the Jew hater likes it or if the United Nations [of Islam and Dictators] likes it or if the European Union likes it or if Zuckerberg and Facebook and Google like it or if Geraldo Rivera likes it. People who voted for Hitler or Hamas are not innocent civilians. They are not innocent nor civilized.
Tzfat Chief Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu told Ashdod students that Hamas is the ancient Amalek which attacked the children of Israel right after the Exodus from Egypt. The rabbi called on the government not to surrender to modern moral values "at the expense of Jewish lives." Rabbi Eliyahu told the students at the Bnei Akiva school that the war against Hamas is "a war of the people of Israel against Amalek, against those wishing to destroy Jews." And he's right.
Does Israel or anyone else need any more proof that Nazis and these Arab Muslim terrorists are Amalek and that we are required to hate them?
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I strongly disagree with what you are saying. Antisemitism is a disease of the mind, it has no reason. All scholarly work done on the topic agrees with what I am saying, despite your opinion. People hate Jews whether they are right wing, left wing, or in between. To suggest that it is caused by this or that particular Jew is ridiculous.
You are feeding right into those who suggest that Israel is the reason for antisemitism.
Also Shlomo I never said 'accoding to my logic no reason to hate Hitler'... To suggest I said that really goes to show how out of touch you are with my posting. I post all the time about how we are commanded to hate Amalek. Read ACK's post where he said 'According to your logic there is no reason to hate Hitler'.... See how you misconstrued my response to him.
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This is the message I responded to...
but m, those are evil jews you point out including the honorary jew bill gates. either evil or just self hating. again, nobody respects them. funny how good jews are not mentioned and dare I say, not hated, just not counted.
it seems you are subconsciously allowing the hollyweird type jews represent all jews.
no reason for jew hatred. by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. hey, it can't be that all nazis are bad. so why not say don't judge all nazis? or dont generalize all nazis?
so how are you going to tell all of europe they can't judge jews? I think its better to condemn evil jews and praise good ones. the king of facebook may not even think he's doing evil. on the other hand, obviously evil jews include communists/socialist jews in washington DC and barbara Streisand.
and no one should be offended because I did not damn any good jew or anyone who isn't clearly evil.
I am insulted that you think I was defending Hitler... I hope you can apologize for such a misunderstanding.
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You obviously were in haste to reply to that message because you missed my reply to ACK which accused him of some antisemitism.
And what do you mean no reason to hate Hitler, yemach shemo vezichro... He and his minions launched an attack against World Jewery because of antisemitic sentiments which existed for 400-1000 years beforehand. Because of Christian Jew hatred which was popular in Germany because of the cursed Martin Luther who called for all synagogues to be burned, and forcing Jews to wear yellow badges.
Nazi Jew hatred had nothing to do with whether Jews were 'good' or 'bad.
All Nazis are BAD because their belief calls for exterminating Jews....
I cannot believe you are making such foolish comments ACK.
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And you obviously missed this post of mine which discussed Amalek...
I know he didn't... I think we just miscommunicated.
This sentence he wrote rubbed me the wrong way:
No reason for hating Hitler according to 'my logic'. There is no way according to my logic that Hitler could be cut an inch of slack. Hitler hated all Jews, not just the bad ones... All Nazis hated Jews as it was a core ideal of Nazi-ism...
Once again 'Antisemitism' means hating the Jewish people as a whole, not hating an individual Jew. When a person hates the entire Jewish people because of the doings of a few Jews, that is antisemitism.
In Judaism we learn about Haman, the Amalekite who sought to destroy all the Jews in the world which we remember during the festival of Purim... He hated the entire Jewish population just because one Jew, Mordechai, would not bow to him.... Because of this he got the go-ahead for a extermination of world Jewry.
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If anyone hates Jews because of Mark Zuckerberg they are antisemites and they would be with or without him.
PS: I never liked Facebook, never subscribed to Facebook, never use it... So I don't really know what it is.
But the Internet is a free place, and if you want to compete with Facebook you are free to do so. If there is demand for a right wing social media it should be created. But again, if you think this is a cause of antisemitism I beg to differ.
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Maybe the Russians are correct in hating Jews? According to some peoples logic here it can be explained as they felt that the Jews were responsible for communism, and many Russians died because of communism, so it is the Jewish peoples fault for their deaths...
I do not believe that. But it is a common example of how individual Jews can be used to tarnish the entire Jewish people. It is irrational because those Jewish communists were nothing but Jews in name, they had no Jewish faith or connection to the Jewish community. It is wrong to blame the entire world Jewry for what some individual Jews did or did not do.
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Also I don't quite understand how Zuckerberg can contribute to antisemitism because of his position on Israel and on social issues. His position is the popular opinion. It would seem that those who would hate Jews because of their support of Israel would love him for his rejection of it. So too with his position on social issues, his position is the popular opinion, which should make him beloved in the eyes of the non-jewish world.
So maybe the only antisemitism which is expressed comes from the Jewish side. Also could someone show me any article which expresses antisemitism against him (aside from the one which I posted the picture of the octopus / big nose)... I would be interested to see some hard examples of what is suggested in this thread.
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So far my search has only found the example from the German newspaper which depicted him as the octopus... This was not because of any social issue but rather because he is a successful business man in the Internet domain. Which is why I asked why no antisemitic images of Bill Gates were ever drawn?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567167/Cartoon-German-newspaper-depicting-Mark-Zuckerberg-octopus-taking-world-starkly-reminiscent-Nazi-anti-Semitic-propaganda.html
I have to say it is wrong that Facebook allows antisemitic posts to stay and removes pro-Israel pages. I cannot explain why this is the case and hope that it changes in the future.
https://www.thejewishnews.com/2014/03/26/dear-mr-zuckerberg/
http://jewsdownunder.com/2013/10/15/zuckerburg-is-in-trouble-with-the-jews/
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While I will concede that by not removing antisemitic hate speech from Facebook the site does perpetuate antisemitism by allowing it to fester. But I don't think people who hate Zuckerberg because he is Jewish are doing so for any other reason than for having an excuse to hate Jews.
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Muman, with Amalek, hating Jews is intrinsic, yes. With those individuals, nothing will sway them. But most people are not Amalek. Most people's opinions are easily changed by media, internet, and yes, Facebook.
Those people that change their minds are referred to when we hear: When Jews follow the Torah, anti-semitism decreases. When they do not follow the Torah, it increases. I learned this in Yeshiva. This is part of Judaism 101.
Zuckerberg reaches billions of people every single year. To say he has no impact on people, politics, or beliefs is defying logic and reason. He has a HUGE impact on people and his companies policies and censorship do too.
To say that Facebook or Google or Youtube or Zuckerburg has absolutely no impact at all on whether anyone has reasons to hate Jews or Israel right now - or to say that Hitler had no impact whatsoever on antisemitism in the slightest - or to say that the Pope has no impact on anti-semisitim - is just irrational and insane.
You are in love with this idea that no matter what any Jew does, it has no impact at all on anti-semitism in any way. That is a lie.
And the reason you fail to use logic is because either you are too busy defending your ego because you don't want to be wrong or you just don't want to believe that Jewish people can cause antisemitism because it hurts to much to face... but the truth is usually more difficult to accept than wishful thinking.
That's why it's important how we effect the world. And that's why we do our best to reach people. And on judgement day, Hashem will deal harshly with Zuckerberg - not just for what he's done... but for what he didn't do.
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I think there are two issues which are being discussed here...
1) Does Mark Zuckerberg, the Jew, cause people to be antisemitic.
2) Does Facebook facilitate Jew haters to spread Jew hatred.
I believe that 2 is true and 1 is false. The only example of antisemitism I have seen in all my searches on this topic is the antisemitic image of Zuckerberg with a big nose (typical Jew hatred) and the Octopus (symbol of World Jewish Conspiracy).... In this case Zuckerberg was the recipient of Jew hatred from a German newspaper. I have not seen any other example of people hating Jews because of his involvement with Facebook except from an Iranian news site which called for banning the WhatsApp application from Iran because Zuckerberg was a Zionist tool.
Facebook does contribute to antisemitism because of its unwillingness to remove antisemitic content and it's removal of pro-Israel content. I am not sure whether this is because of Zuckerberg or because of other aspects within the Facebook organization.
Throughout history good Jews and bad Jews have borne the brunt of Jew hatred which is completely irrational. If you argue with a Jew hater to try to convince them they will continue believing falsehood even when presented with the facts.
I would appreciate it if someone could find some concrete evidence that Zuckerberg himself contributes to Jew hatred.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/04/iran-bans-whatsapp-because-link-to-american-zionist-mark-zuckerberg/
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Shlomo,
Are you suggesting 'Good Jews' don't get subjected to antisemitism? History has shown that to be untrue.
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Look at how Rome hated Jews before the destruction of the 2nd Temple. According to tradition the 2nd Temple was destroyed because of baseless hatred, but the Romans hated Jews because of our loyalty to tradition and our G-d. At that time millions of 'good Jews' were killed.
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Not that I want to keep this argument rolling but I would like to add a couple of points.
Do we see that it is ok to hate all blacks because of what one, or a group of, blacks do? I don't subscribe to that idea. I can see the difference between sub-groups of blacks and single out the behavior which I consider problematic (i.e. gangsta culture) and not hate all blacks.
Same with any ethnic or religious group. I don't hate the entire faith or race, I rebuke the problematic members.
But with antisemitism, which is a plague of the mind, the entire Jewish people get tarred with a negative perception. There is no reason for this, as I said, only excuses.
What I don't understand is why some people think that antisemitism is OK for certain Jews when all of us are suffering because of it. We must fight antisemitism by showing that there is no rational reason for it.
For instance today Biden made a comment about 'Shylock' which is a denigrating term for Jewish bankers. It is a cannard that all Jews are rich and we somehow collude with the bankers to steal the money from the gentiles to give to 'zionist' causes. Biden should have considered the implications of that Jew hating term, but to him it was as natural as saying 'Don't Jew me down'...
Now I don't defend bankers... They sometimes act very immorally. But not all Jewish bankers are Shylocks. My brother worked on Wall Street for Cantor Fitzgerald, and the manager of Cantor Fitzgerald was Jewish (so was the original founder). Somehow this has become an antisemitic cannard...
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There are muzz rats working at FB! I have a elder Jewish woman as a friend that has had her posts blocked and they put Arabic under some of them when she shares others anti muzz rat posts. ..
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בס''ד
1. The biggest anti-Semite on Facebook is Mark Zuckerberg himself yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav (may his name and memory be obliterated, may the name of the wicked rot). This filthy swine is worth $30 billion and his company is worth $200 billion and he had to intermarry? He could have gotten any Jewish girl in the world. But he chose to intermarry and proudly publicized his evil "wedding".
2. Intermarriage and assimilation cause anti-Semitism. The most assimilated Jews in the world were in Germany and Austria in the 1920s - it is not by accident that Hitler and the Nazis rose to power in these two nations. When Jews mix in and assimilate and then try to negatively influence a nation's policies with their self-hating leftist agenda, of course that causes Jew-hatred.
3. Another reason for Jew-hatred is cowardice. No one likes or respects gutless worms - the assimilated Jews who are ashamed and embarrassed to be Jewish, who try desperately to be accepted and loved at all costs, who actually side with the enemies of their own people in order to prove that they are not loyal to Israel or the Jewish people, who bend over backwards to appease the worst Nazis in order to prove that they are "objective". No one likes cowards. Jewish kids are beaten up in school because they have a reputation for being cowards. If the Jewish kids were strong and proud, obviously there would be much less anti-Semitism. This image of wimpy Jews also causes tremendous self-hatred - it is not "cool" to be a wimp, it is not cool to be Woody Allen, and so young Jews don't want to remain part of a people that is identified with wimpiness.
4. Hashem causes anti-Semitism to stop Jewish assimilation. If everyone was "nice" to the Jews, they would assimilate and disappear very quickly. In every country where Jews were able to assimilate, they did. Only in countries where anti-Semitism prevented assimilation was strong Jewish identity preserved. This is one of the reasons why Hashem surrounded Israel with hostile Muslim Nazis - if Israel had been surrounded by "nice" people, the Jews would rapidly assimilate and disappear.
5. Hashem also causes anti-Semitism as a punishment. The prophets of the Tanach warn repeatedly that if the Jews do not follow the mitzvot of the Torah that Hashem will bring war and destruction and exile upon them. Zuckerberg is the poster boy for the most evil treason possible - he is proudly intermarried, he supports all of the enemies of his own people, he bans and silences all of the good Jews, and he promotes with his billions every abominable cause from banning guns to homosexual "marriage" to amnesty to abortion to "affirmative action" to national suicide for Israel.
6. When Gentiles see the names of Jewish billionaires attached to evil policies, clearly this causes anti-Semitism. When Zuckerberg and Mike Bloomberg promise to outspend the NRA in order to destroy the Second Amendment, that outrages tens of millions of gun owners. When Zuckerberg funds the amnesty campaign, that will not cause Jew-hatred? Yes, the Catholic Church and most evangelical churches also support amnesty for some bizarre reason - but people do not remember that when they think of amnesty, they will only remember the Jewish names associated with it. Is it wrong to hate all Jews because of the evil behavior of scum like Zuckerberg and Bloomberg? Of course, it's wrong and it violates the Biblical commandment to love and bless the Jewish people. But we know from history that huge numbers of people do not pay attention to the Biblical commandment.
7. The worst enemies of the Jewish people are not the Nazis or the Muslims or Obama or the UN or the European Union. The worst enemies of the Jewish people are the self-hating Jews in the news media, Hollywood, the Jewish establishment organizations, the Israeli government and so on. The enemy from within is always worse than any external enemy. The Jewish anti-Semites who control Facebook, Google and YouTube do far more damage than Gentile anti-Semites.
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Who are you arguing with Muman? Yourself?
I'm sorry you had a bad day, but picking fights with everyone at JTF won't undo that.
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בס''ד
1. The biggest anti-Semite on Facebook is Mark Zuckerberg himself yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav (may his name and memory be obliterated, may the name of the wicked rot). This filthy swine is worth $30 billion and his company is worth $200 billion and he had to intermarry? He could have gotten any Jewish girl in the world. But he chose to intermarry and proudly publicized his evil "wedding".
2. Intermarriage and assimilation cause anti-Semitism. The most assimilated Jews in the world were in Germany and Austria in the 1920s - it is not by accident that Hitler and the Nazis rose to power in these two nations. When Jews mix in and assimilate and then try to negatively influence a nation's policies with their self-hating leftist agenda, of course that causes Jew-hatred.
3. Another reason for Jew-hatred is cowardice. No one likes or respects gutless worms - the assimilated Jews who are ashamed and embarrassed to be Jewish, who try desperately to be accepted and loved at all costs, who actually side with the enemies of their own people in order to prove that they are not loyal to Israel or the Jewish people, who bend over backwards to appease the worst Nazis in order to prove that they are "objective". No one likes cowards. Jewish kids are beaten up in school because they have a reputation for being cowards. If the Jewish kids were strong and proud, obviously there would be much less anti-Semitism. This image of wimpy Jews also causes tremendous self-hatred - it is not "cool" to be a wimp, it is not cool to be Woody Allen, and so young Jews don't want to remain part of a people that is identified with wimpiness.
4. Hashem causes anti-Semitism to stop Jewish assimilation. If everyone was "nice" to the Jews, they would assimilate and disappear very quickly. In every country where Jews were able to assimilate, they did. Only in countries where anti-Semitism prevented assimilation was strong Jewish identity preserved. This is one of the reasons why Hashem surrounded Israel with hostile Muslim Nazis - if Israel had been surrounded by "nice" people, the Jews would rapidly assimilate and disappear.
5. Hashem also causes anti-Semitism as a punishment. The prophets of the Tanach warn repeatedly that if the Jews do not follow the mitzvot of the Torah that Hashem will bring war and destruction and exile upon them. Zuckerberg is the poster boy for the most evil treason possible - he is proudly intermarried, he supports all of the enemies of his own people, he bans and silences all of the good Jews, and he promotes with his billions every abominable cause from banning guns to homosexual "marriage" to amnesty to abortion to "affirmative action" to national suicide for Israel.
6. When Gentiles see the names of Jewish billionaires attached to evil policies, clearly this causes anti-Semitism. When Zuckerberg and Mike Bloomberg promise to outspend the NRA in order to destroy the Second Amendment, that outrages tens of millions of gun owners. When Zuckerberg funds the amnesty campaign, that will not cause Jew-hatred? Yes, the Catholic Church and most evangelical churches also support amnesty for some bizarre reason - but people do not remember that when they think of amnesty, they will only remember the Jewish names associated with it. Is it wrong to hate all Jews because of the evil behavior of scum like Zuckerberg and Bloomberg? Of course, it's wrong and it violates the Biblical commandment to love and bless the Jewish people. But we know from history that huge numbers of people do not pay attention to the Biblical commandment.
7. The worst enemies of the Jewish people are not the Nazis or the Muslims or Obama or the UN or the European Union. The worst enemies of the Jewish people are the self-hating Jews in the news media, Hollywood, the Jewish establishment organizations, the Israeli government and so on. The enemy from within is always worse than any external enemy. The Jewish anti-Semites who control Facebook, Google and YouTube do far more damage than Gentile anti-Semites.
Could not have put it better myself.
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Then explain why McCain is not subject to anti-Baptist hate? It doesn't compute.
Antisemitism is caused by a wide variety of reasons. I can bring many more examples of the explanation of why it exists, and Chaim is correct in some of them. But Zuckerberg did not cause Nazi antisemitism, Hitler hated Jews for what they represented, not because they what they did. Jews were sub-human to the Nazis, racially deficient, and this is why they enacted the Nuremberg laws. The Crusaders and the Inquisition hated the Jews because we refused to accept their messiah as king.
I respect Chaim but find his opinion to be another reason for Jews to be hated. Assimilation is certainly a problem in the Jewish community, but it is not the reason for antisemitism. I think it is ridiculous from a Jewish perspective to give a reason for Jew hatred which has throughout history been unjustified. Now JTF believes that we deserved all the murder and oppression because of the bad Jews among us. I find that a sickening opinion.
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Could not have put it better myself.
Im sure you could, but you didn't. So stop being the suck-up you are reputed to be...
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Who are you arguing with Muman? Yourself?
I'm sorry you had a bad day, but picking fights with everyone at JTF won't undo that.
You are a nutcase... You know nothing about my day... And you will continue to be in the dark.
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Why would non-Jews care if Jews intermarry? It is not a sin in their book... Only because they think we are inferior, because we are not enlightened with their messiah... This is why... And sure it is wrong for a Jew to marry out, but that is a sin only to a Jew who is commanded not to.
Most non-Jews don't know what the Torah says about it. Most non-Jews think Jews are filthy rich and debased. It is a false belief and there is no justification for it. I have said I think it is foolish to justify Jew hatred.
According to my experience on the Internet the primary causes of Jew hatred are:
1) Jews are in control of the international media spreading a 'Zionist' message. (of course this is ridiculous, but it is what they say)
2) Jews are in control of the international banking system supporting 'Zionist' causes. (of course this is ridiculous too)
3) Jews are spawns of Satan according to Christian teachings.
4) Jews are incomplete souls because we refused to accept their messiah.
5) Jews are racially and genetically inferior humans and we pollute the gene pool.
I don't know where a Jews position on Amnesty rates on this scale... Zuckerberg has faced antisemitism from German press with the publication of the image I posted previously. Even being a Rich Jew he is hated for. I have not seen a single comment on a News Site, or on mainstream media which suggests that because Zuckerberg supports Amnesty that Jews are to be hated. I have asked before, but nobody has provided, an example of actual antisemitism which has resulted from this episode.
While Chaims points are valid, antisemitism happens as a divine way of keeping the Jewish people apart, it has happened many times in places where the majority of the Jews were righteous.
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Are we sure Facebooks operations are controlled by Zuckerberg?
http://www.quora.com/Has-Mark-Zuckerberg-ever-commented-on-Israel-or-Zionism
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According to arabic press Zuckerberg is a Zionist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbjtg3AhZZQ
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Is Zuckerberg related to you?
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I respect Chaim but find his opinion to be another reason for Jews to be hated. Assimilation is certainly a problem in the Jewish community, but it is not the reason for antisemitism. I think it is ridiculous from a Jewish perspective to give a reason for Jew hatred which has throughout history been unjustified. Now JTF believes that we deserved all the murder and oppression because of the bad Jews among us. I find that a sickening opinion.
Those are some pretty strong charges to level at Chaim, but I can't say I am surprised that you feel this way.
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No, LSDBR, not in the least.
I already conceded that Facebook doesn't stop Jew haters as they should. I have signed the petitions in order to get many Facebook pages removed, but since I have no interest in Facebook I don't really know how bad it is.
The Internet is infested with Jew hatred, that I know. You cannot do a search for Jewish information through google search without coming up with nazi and other Jew haters material. This is why I use a special search engine for Jewish concepts (4torah.com)...
I think it is terrible that they remove pro-Zionist sites while allowing anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist sites to remain. I don't know the reason for this. I hope that we can find out soon.
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Those are some pretty strong charges to level at Chaim, but I can't say I am surprised that you feel this way.
I have never heard a Jew suggest that antisemitism is deserved or justified.
I understand that from a Jewish perspective Zuckerberg should be rebuked for his many transgressions, but I will never suggest that because of one mans action that the entire Jewish people should be tarnished.
Bill Gates is a multimillionaire who does not give to the most righteous causes, and yet his people are not hated. So too McCain supports amnesty and makes $100M a year, and his people are not hated.
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No, LSDBR, not in the least.
I already conceded that Facebook doesn't stop Jew haters as they should. I have signed the petitions in order to get many Facebook pages removed, but since I have no interest in Facebook I don't really know how bad it is.
The Internet is infested with Jew hatred, that I know. You cannot do a search for Jewish information through google search without coming up with nazi and other Jew haters material. This is why I use a special search engine for Jewish concepts (4torah.com)...
I think it is terrible that they remove pro-Zionist sites while allowing anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist sites to remain. I don't know the reason for this. I hope that we can find out soon.
Muman, you can lash out at the Gentiles all you want, but Gentiles (righteous OR evil ones) are not forcing rich, powerful Jews in the West to be the enemies of Judaism and the allies of Islam. This is done out of their own free will. Nobody is forced to be evil. It is a conscious choice. You can accuse me of being motivated by "Christian anti-Semitism" all you want, but the Tanach, not just the NT, spells out the ruinous history of Jewish self-hatred for millenia.
These sick, twisted people (the Zuckerbergs of the world) truly believe that the evil positions are the "Jewish" positions. I can't explain why or how it is and it's not really my job. I have my hands full fighting evangelical self-hatred and assimilation all day, every day--it should be up to Jews to clean their own house. But don't you for a second blame quality JTFers for pointing out how sick and evil Zuckerberg is. Nobody wants to see your stupid octopus cartoons, either.
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Muman, you can lash out at the Gentiles all you want, but Gentiles (righteous OR evil ones) are not forcing rich, powerful Jews in the West to be the enemies of Judaism and the allies of Islam. This is done out of their own free will. Nobody is forced to be evil. It is a conscious choice. You can accuse me of being motivated by "Christian anti-Semitism" all you want, but the Tanach, not just the NT, spells out the ruinous history of Jewish self-hatred for millenia.
These sick, twisted people (the Zuckerbergs of the world) truly believe that the evil positions are the "Jewish" positions. I can't explain why or how it is and it's not really my job. I have my hands full fighting evangelical self-hatred and assimilation all day, every day--it should be up to Jews to clean their own house. But don't you for a second blame quality JTFers for pointing out how sick and evil Zuckerberg is. Nobody wants to see your stupid octopus cartoons, either.
I am not blaming anyone for anything. I am disagreeing with the hypothesis that 'antisemitism' is a justified response to anything an individual Jew does. I never accused you of being an antisemite, and if I did please point it out and I will apologize. In the early conversation with ACK he said some things about Hitler which struck me as odd, and I was upset when I implied he may have justified the atrocities of the nazis.
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How about you showing me where ACK and Chaim justified anti-Semitism? Otherwise, good night.
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He (ACK) suggests that according to 'my logic' there is no reason to hate Hitler, yemach shemo... That is a ridiculous conclusion because nothing, according to my logic, would support such a statement.
Nazis intrinsically hated Jews because they were Jews, not because they did anything wrong... There is nothing wrong with saying that this or that Jew did something evil or wicked, it is our responsibility to rebuke the evil, and punish the evildoers when convicted... But to hate an entire people (as the nazis did) because they are Jews is antisemitism, and it is irrational.
but m, those are evil jews you point out including the honorary jew bill gates. either evil or just self hating. again, nobody respects them. funny how good jews are not mentioned and dare I say, not hated, just not counted.
it seems you are subconsciously allowing the hollyweird type jews represent all jews.
no reason for jew hatred. by your logic, theres also no reason for hating hitler and his followers. hey, it can't be that all nazis are bad. so why not say don't judge all nazis? or dont generalize all nazis?
so how are you going to tell all of europe they can't judge jews? I think its better to condemn evil jews and praise good ones. the king of facebook may not even think he's doing evil. on the other hand, obviously evil jews include communists/socialist jews in washington DC and barbara Streisand.
and no one should be offended because I did not damn any good jew or anyone who isn't clearly evil.
I would like to know what liberal Jews did in Germany which justified the Shoah...
2. Intermarriage and assimilation cause anti-Semitism. The most assimilated Jews in the world were in Germany and Austria in the 1920s - it is not by accident that Hitler and the Nazis rose to power in these two nations. When Jews mix in and assimilate and then try to negatively influence a nation's policies with their self-hating leftist agenda, of course that causes Jew-hatred.
The Nazis passed the Nuremberg laws which effectively outlawed assimilation in 1935 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws ). Those same laws outlawed Jews from serving as lawyers, bankers, and in the government. If Chaim's #2 position is true, why didn't the Nuremberg laws which forbade Jews marrying non-Jews solve the problem? Maybe Jew hatred went deeper than this.
The Nuremberg Laws classified people with four German grandparents as "German or kindred blood", while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents. A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood".[1] The Nuremberg Laws classified as "racially acceptable" people with "German or related blood".[2] These laws deprived Jews and other non-Aryans of German citizenship and prohibited racially mixed sexual relations and marriages between Germans and Jews.[3] On 26 November 1935, the laws were extended to "Gypsies, Negroes or their bastard offspring".[4][5]
The Nuremberg Laws also included a ban on sexual relations and marriages between persons classified as "Aryan" and "non-Aryan". They ultimately prevented Jews from participating in German civic life. These laws were both an attempt to return the Jews of 20th-century Germany to the position that Jews had held before their emancipation in the 19th century; although in the 19th century Jews could have evaded restrictions by converting, this was no longer possible.
The laws were a legal embodiment of an already existing Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses.
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We face the most antisemitism when we support Israel. Look at any youtube video which espouses a pro-Zionist message and observe the fascist, racist, and denigrating comments against the Jewish people. Not once have I seen comments which suggest they hate me, or my people, because of Facebook. Facebook did not invent Jew hatred, it is just a tool used by Jew haters to spread their filth. I think it is a valid question as to why it is permitted on their site. Their needs to be an investigation as to why hate sites are permitted on Facebook while pro-zionist sites are removed. I cannot condone what is happening in this regard.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Nazi_Eugenics_and_Racial_belief
Nazi Eugenics and Racial belief[edit]
The Nuremberg laws were based on a belief in Scientific racism and derived from a primitive understanding of genetics. Although the Nazis took these ideas to violent extremes, they were based on thinking that already existed across Europe and America. Nazi laws banning "interracial marriage" and according to Nazi racial ideology the Germanic Nordic-Aryans were a master race and in accordance with ideas expressed in Eugenics and Social Darwinism;[42] they therefore sought to preserve their supposed racial superiority by banning inter-marriage with people they regarded as inferior or as a threat, in particular Jews, Gypsies and blacks who were classified as untermenschen ("subhumans") that were seen as racially distinctive minorities of "alien blood".[43][44]
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I apologize if I have upset anyone, my intention is not to defend or support Zuckerberg. My only intention in this thread is to better the understanding of Jew hatred. It is not a simple issue, and while I know Chaim is correct in several of his points, I dont think that the conclusion is correct. I will not ever say that Jew hatred is justified, especially if it is based on BS science which considers us inferior, or that we don't accept ones messiah, or that we are greedy shylocks. I will not excuse it and will not condone it. I have faced it and know it is irrational.
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I have never heard a Jew suggest that antisemitism is deserved or justified.
I understand that from a Jewish perspective Zuckerberg should be rebuked for his many transgressions, but I will never suggest that because of one mans action that the entire Jewish people should be tarnished.
So when your unnatural and obsessive need to defend Zuckerberg comes crashing down in logic, you put words in our mouth and dare suggest we think that antisemitism is somehow justified? And when did we say that the Jewish nation should be punished because of one man? Where did you come up with that nonsense? What nerve. Nice red herring. Oh, but it get better!
I respect Chaim but find his opinion to be another reason for Jews to be hated.
So here it is. The backhanded compliment before the accusation makes it even more sickening. Supposedly Zuckerberg has never ever been any cause for anti-semitism because no Jew can cause anti-semitism... except Chaim Ben Pesach who you just claimed causes antisemitism.
That right there explains everything. And wait... there's more!
Now JTF believes that we deserved all the murder and oppression because of the bad Jews among us. I find that a sickening opinion.
So because we shot down your moronic and intellectually dishonest defense of you're hero Zuckerberg, you have the nerve to claim that JTF believes that the persecution and murder and torture and pogroms and destruction and terrorism and all evil against good Jews is "deserved"??
You can't be serious. You are saying that we believe that good Jews deserved the holocaust and all the evils and murder of all time? That is lashon hara. You are putting words into our mouths and making some serious accusations of complete nonsense.
Let me be clear:
1) We believe Zuckerberg is responsible for antisemitism - fair or not - whether you believe it or not
2) We believe Zuckerberg is responsible for Facebook and the evil that it supports and spreads - be it addiction, loss of privacy, pornography, politics, donations, I could go on...
2) We do not believe any good Jews or Gentiles deserve murder or torture or ANY injustice and we fight to save those people with every resource we have
What you just said is so repulsive... and because your stinking pride was hurt because your foolish and retarded defense of some evil Jew (that recently attacked our organization!) and that somehow no single Jew can cause any antisemitism no matter how many billions of people he effects or billions upon billions of dollars he has - except for Chaim Ben Pesach who you dare say causes antisemitism.
You also had the nerve to compare Chaim's commentary on Jewish inter-marriage to the Nazis right after you claim that JTF supports evil and thinks that evil against good people is deserved because of Zuckerberg!
Nazi laws banning "interracial marriage" and according to Nazi racial ideology the Germanic Nordic-Aryans were a master race and in accordance with ideas expressed in Eugenics and Social Darwinism;[42] they therefore sought to preserve their supposed racial superiority by banning inter-marriage
You have to be kidding me.
You are so close to being banned. And here come the dozens of posts after posts after posts with insults to our members and copy and paste from the internet so you can make this thread unreadable. I think I will sleep before I take action. Unbelievable.
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muman, please.
Here, muman's OCD style:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_HhA-BmsVM9A/THbvmK4kT7I/AAAAAAAACk0/gRTwESYm8GI/oie_horse_thumb%5B3%5D.gif?imgmax=800)
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3149546/beating-a-dead-horse-o.gif)
(http://www.socal-synthetics.com/wpimages/wp802f39f7.gif)
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4312482/beating-a-dead-horse-o.gif)
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4741968/beating-a-dead-horse-o.gif)
(http://images.bidnessetc.com/content/uploads/images/source3/88611-beating-dead-horse-gif-south-p-zqec-74bba22728b6185eec06286af6bec36d.gif)
(http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/general-chit-chat/167111d1105585083-need-beating-dead-horse-picture-beathorse.gif)
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Shlomo,
You really are off base on this. Show me where I EVER defended Zuckerberg? That is so untrue it should be evident to all reading, as a matter of fact at least four times I explicitly said what was wrong about the situation at Facebook. That is not defending him and you gotta be honest about this.
I don't know why you are taking this so personally. I disagree with the position, can you live with that? I can live with you having your opinion. But I do believe that a site which regularly uses the Kike word, constantly calls people with differing thoughts self-haters without looking into the possible reasons for their problems (not excusing them, but trying to find good in a fellow Jew) may be contributing to antisemitism. Don't you think it looks funny to the pedofronters LSDBR always is concerned about?
I have skin in the game while he doesn't. I have witnessed real antisemitism and it didn't come from some Jewish millionaire. It came from a more insidious source. And my father saw antisemitism in America long before Zuckerberg was a twinkle in his momma eyes. I know that the roots of antisemitism go WAY deeper than Zuckerberg.
So my disagreeing with the JTF position is a reason to ban me? After all I have done and all those I have helped here at JTF, and this is how you are treating a righteous Jew right before the High Holidays? Please explain what it is that you think is so dangerous about my opinion?
That Nazi antisemitism was due to racial genetics not because Jews were liberal? As the great Rabbi Kahane would say, those who cannot debate in a real honest manner will resort to denigration of the opponent. I have faced this denigration for an opinion I have backed up with facts, figures, and quotes from the sources of Antisemitism and all I have seen from the other side is insults and threats.
I love what JTF stands for. I live it and breathe it and spread it among those I come in contact with. I was a proud moderator on the board before you stripped me of that honor for not agreeing to curse the OU for their purported position on Pollard (which actually changed when they called for his release, despite the claims made by some here). For upsetting the non-Jews by posting historical facts and not forgiving for those acts which harmed my people in Ukraine for my forefathers. And I am supposed to believe this is because they did something wrong?
Why cant we discuss things in a logical manner rather than attempt to denigrate others.
Please show me the facts which support the idea that liberal German Jews were harming Germans. I have studied the history and read the books, I know that German Jews were loyal citizens who fought in WWI and they would be German nationalists if not for the Nazis. I do not excuse the Nazis by saying that liberal Jews caused the Jewish people to be hated, justifying the Shoah.
I don't know what you want from me Shlomo. From the time we originally talked I had such a great opinion of this organization but somehow it seems you find me a burden here? Can either you or Chaim explain why?
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See some of the following where I clearly do not defend what his company is doing:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,78191.msg647836.html#msg647836
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,78191.msg647869.html#msg647869
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,78191.msg647665.html#msg647665
Also if we had some intellectual integrity several of my points would have been addressed.
Why is it ok to hate Jews for Zuckerbergs position on Amnesty, yet not hate McCain or Gates people for their position on Amnesty?
Why is it ok to hate Jews for Zuckerbergs use of his millions for unrighteous purposes, yet for McCain or Gates it is not?
Did Nazi Germany establish the Nuremberg laws because of leftist liberal Jews in the government, or was it really because of Eugenics and race theory? Did Martin Luther (ys'v) contribute in any way to the perception of Jews (and was it because of their political leanings)?
Did the Jews in Ukraine deserve the pogroms of the 1700s when they lived in the pale of settlement? What did they do to deserve it?
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Maybe my saying 'ok' is incorrect... But it seems that the argument is to rationalize the Jew hatred.
All I ask from Shlomo or Chaim is a clarification as to how this helps the Jewish people, to justify or rationalize Jew hatred which expresses itself in many vulgar forms even to the righteous Jews.
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I apologize for this thread. I would like to see a logical and clear-headed answer to my issues.
It is not a matter of ego. It is what I experienced and learned.
I have conceded that bad Jews do cause a bad perception of the Jewish people. This is a lesson in the Torah that the Jews should be a light upon nations, and when we are not, we are scorned and exiled.
People who know my approach to Judaism and life know that I work on stressing optimism for the Jewish people. Looking for the good in a Jew is an important trait, one which Abraham our father was famous for (his Chesed/Kindness) and he was also very Charitable in that he wanted to please his guests. I do not shut my eyes to the evil of some in the Jewish nation but I hold onto hope that the ENTIRE Jewish nation will one day re-unite (as I recently posted Hineh Ma Tov in the music thread) as the prophets foretold.
What is accomplished by creating division among the Jews? Should Jews always be fighting between each other for what they perceive to be the right way? Indeed there are issues worth fighting for, and I am prepared to fight those fights. I am no coward and believe that Israel must remain strong no matter how much the leftist Jews and the nations attempt to restrain Israel from responding to aggression. On those issues I stand strong but I will also not give up hope on those leftist Jews who still have a potential place in the World to Come if they truly repent, and change their ways.
As I have said in the past, push away with the left hand, pull close with the right hand... I think that this approach is the best. It is not being PC or supporting evil, but assisting those who have gone astray to get back on the path to Hashem. Rebuke is mandated by the Torah, strong rebuke for those who have transgressed a great deal. Even to the point of Makkot for transgression, upon two witnesses, I support the Torahs laws... But we must work toward that goal because Jews today are far from the mark.
This is my opinion, make of it what you will.
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Maybe my saying 'ok' is incorrect... But it seems that the argument is to rationalize the Jew hatred.
All I ask from Shlomo or Chaim is a clarification as to how this helps the Jewish people, to justify or rationalize Jew hatred which expresses itself in many vulgar forms even to the righteous Jews.
Actions speak louder than words, and your behavior at JTF since day one is pretty tough to whitewash.
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Let me sum this up.
Anti semitism will never go away until Moshiach.
However it will present itself as Jews don't do what they are supposed to do. For every act that we do that is un Jewish and against Torah, it becomes a chilul Hashem. It becomes in the minds of some anti semites where they think, "Ha this Jew isn't eating Kosher. He doesn't believe in his god of Israel..that means he's a fake and a lie."
And then you have a religious Jew from the Galut who is wimpy, "Hey look at that religious Jew all wimpy..he is different, let's go pick on him."
But if you have a religious Jew as brave as the Macabees, the anti-semite will avoid that Jew or at least respect him much like the whites and non Muslims will be politically correct for blacks and Muslims.
Does this make any sense? Any questions?
And Zuckerberg is the a great example of a million chilul Hashems, FYI.
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Actions speak louder than words, and your behavior at JTF since day one is pretty tough to whitewash.
I have no idea what 'behavior' you are talking about. Please elaborate.
I have contributed 1000s of threads on Judaism, Torah topics, advice to Jews about obervance based on my consultation with various rabbis. I have been 100% on-board with Israel politics (supporting the Kahanist platform) and 100% with the anti-islamic position espoused by Chaim. I believe these are the values of JTF.
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muman613 has given me advice about Misswot observance, and I definitely do believe that he is a positive contributor to the board.
Todah Rabbah Griffin,
Shanah Tovah, May you and your loved ones be written and sealed in the book of life this year!
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Let me sum this up.
Anti semitism will never go away until Moshiach.
However it will present itself as Jews don't do what they are supposed to do. For every act that we do that is un Jewish and against Torah, it becomes a chilul Hashem. It becomes in the minds of some anti semites where they think, "Ha this Jew isn't eating Kosher. He doesn't believe in his god of Israel..that means he's a fake and a lie."
And then you have a religious Jew from the Galut who is wimpy, "Hey look at that religious Jew all wimpy..he is different, let's go pick on him."
But if you have a religious Jew as brave as the Macabees, the anti-semite will avoid that Jew or at least respect him much like the whites and non Muslims will be politically correct for blacks and Muslims.
Does this make any sense? Any questions?
And Zuckerberg is the a great example of a million chilul Hashems, FYI.
makes sense to me
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Let me sum this up.
Anti semitism will never go away until Moshiach.
However it will present itself as Jews don't do what they are supposed to do. For every act that we do that is un Jewish and against Torah, it becomes a chilul Hashem. It becomes in the minds of some anti semites where they think, "Ha this Jew isn't eating Kosher. He doesn't believe in his god of Israel..that means he's a fake and a lie."
And then you have a religious Jew from the Galut who is wimpy, "Hey look at that religious Jew all wimpy..he is different, let's go pick on him."
But if you have a religious Jew as brave as the Macabees, the anti-semite will avoid that Jew or at least respect him much like the whites and non Muslims will be politically correct for blacks and Muslims.
Does this make any sense? Any questions?
And Zuckerberg is the a great example of a million chilul Hashems, FYI.
Bingo.
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Bingo.
Thank you and stop picking on Muman. He's a good Jew and a good person.
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Thank you and stop picking on Muman. He's a good Jew and a good person.
Thanks Dr Dan...
I apologize again for making statements which appeared to be contradictory. I take everything that Chaim and Shlomo says to heart, and yet I still feel strongly on certain topics.
And let me wish your family a Happy and Healthy New year Dr Dan...
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Thanks Dr Dan...
I apologize again for making statements which appeared to be contradictory. I take everything that Chaim and Shlomo says to heart, and yet I still feel strongly on certain topics.
And let me wish your family a Happy and Healthy New year Dr Dan...
Shana tova
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The problem with facebook is that if you make a legit complaint against a page, most of the time, it's not shut down. But, if it's against the beliefs of Zuckerberg, then it's taken down. I made complaints against people who should have a fb page, and their pages are still up. I made the complaints against people who have nothing better to do than insult me on fb. Zuckerberg STILL hasn't removed their accounts.
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Thank you and stop picking on Muman. He's a good Jew and a good person.
I agree. We all need to get over the past and work together and move forward.
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Thank you and stop picking on Muman. He's a good Jew and a good person.
Did you read this whole thread? Where did I say he is a bad Jew?
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(http://www.broadwaystore.com/images/badjewsuni1.jpg)
(http://rlv.zcache.com/badass_jewboy_tshirts-rd7b31e6eb23e415dab5831739f4faaf7_va6lr_512.jpg)
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Guys I have some questions...
Do we want to save Israel, America, and the righteous of the nation's?
Do we want to bring Moshiach?
Do we want the Temple?
Do we want the Redemption?
Do want to be a mass movement so we can bring the above?
Well, we need to get our shiite together! This petty bull crap fighting has got us no where! We have lost members over this... GOOD ONES! Because of this kind of crap. And I'm speaking to everyone! We are not a cult that all believe the exact same thing. We are going to have differences.
Our biggest problem is our Christian and Jew fighting. .. It is a plague on this forum.
If we disagree on something we can handle it civil, if not we all lose.
Let's get over it!
We are going into Rosh Hashana, we will all be judged before HaShem... ALL! Let's get it together
so maybe we can all speed up the arrival of the redemption. Because in the end we are, and will, serve the same G-d.
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The little freak, Zuckerberg thinks he is doing G'd a service by banning right wing, G'd fearing Jews.
The only people that like Zuckerberg are Communists and Islamo wack jobs
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If you put Israel in your FB name FB will remove it from your name.
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If you put Israel in your FB name FB will remove it from your name.
whatchutalknbout willis?
I have a friend on facebook who's first name is Israel. He's been on facebook for many years. He is Jewish and I went to school with him so I know he is very jewish. He is a painter and not political though.
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not to disparage you but:
https://www.facebook.com/StandWithUs
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Israel/108099562543414
You can google it yourself
https://www.google.com/#q=israel+site:facebook.com
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whatchutalknbout willis?
I have a friend on facebook who's first name is Israel. He's been on facebook for many years. He is Jewish and I went to school with him so I know he is very jewish. He is a painter and not political though.
check pm
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check pm
I believe you that they do it to some people. but there are people who have it in their names.
there's no disagreement here.
obviously facebook is bending over for muslims.
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Ah Stinks sneaks in to attack Muman while I'm away. No Stinks bad.