JTF.ORG Forum

Kahanist Singles => Jewish Singles => Topic started by: admin on October 09, 2007, 02:03:28 PM

Title: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: admin on October 09, 2007, 02:03:28 PM
I don't hug, kiss, or have sex with a woman I'm not married to and if she's attractive, it's also better not to shake her hand.

Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: guyNbluejeans on October 09, 2007, 02:17:43 PM
I've had several mystical experiences with sex throughout my life.

Sex should not be fooled with except within the context of holy marrage.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: mord on October 09, 2007, 02:20:11 PM
I try to get the women but i fail so for me this question n/a :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 02:21:31 PM

None of the above. Life is to short.  :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: mord on October 09, 2007, 02:21:55 PM
I try to get the women but i fail so for me this question n/a :::D


Same for me but if I could get a woman, I would still refrain until marriage.


Well i'm refraining under duress
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 02:39:23 PM


Lost count on how many women there's been since I was 17. 8;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 09, 2007, 02:44:06 PM
I don't hug, kiss, or have sex with a woman I'm not married to and if she's attractive, it's also better not to shake her hand.



Yes it's more elegent to his their hands not shake them; bloody feminazists.::) 
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on October 09, 2007, 04:02:44 PM
I said none of the above, but I am Shomer Negia to this extent:  I will never extend a hand, but if a woman who is not Shomer Negia extends her hand, I will usually shake it.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on October 09, 2007, 04:07:27 PM
So you don't extend a hand but you do have sex?


I hope that was a joke.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on October 09, 2007, 04:10:51 PM
You said none of the above. You could have clicked up to 4 choices, including no pre-marital sex.
Woops!  I didn't see it said "refrain from."  Can I take back my vote?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 09, 2007, 04:17:53 PM
You said none of the above. You could have clicked up to 4 choices, including no pre-marital sex.
Woops!  I didn't see it said "refrain from."  Can I take back my vote?

I got the same problem as you.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 09, 2007, 04:48:09 PM
to each their own...

If i could teach anythign to my children, I would recommend that they avoid premarital sex...and if it meant building a fence in the sense of being shomer negia, I would have to talk it over with my wife...
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dominater96 on October 09, 2007, 05:11:26 PM
R' Carlebach hugged women. The Taz says there is no problem with touching a women ( for instance shaking hands) if there is nothing sexual about it.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on October 09, 2007, 05:28:22 PM
I avoid ALL these behaviours , but only if the woman is married, or if she is Jewish (since I am a Goy). I also avoid all of the above with women who belong to any ethnical group which forbids intermarriage, Gypsyes for instance. Regarding other Goyshe single women, I am not very carefull, I must say.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Daniel on October 09, 2007, 05:29:49 PM
I practice it by not discussing it openly.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on October 09, 2007, 06:29:04 PM
Yacov, is it possible to remove a vote like you can a post?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 06:32:16 PM


I propose that all virgins don't have the right to vote on this subject. If you've never had sex then you have no idea what you are talking about and have no experience to draw from. For f***s sake some of you haven't even made out with a girl!? So head out, hook up, live a little, then come back and you can vote.    8;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 09, 2007, 06:40:44 PM


I propose that all virgins don't have the right to vote on this subject. If you've never had sex then you have no idea what you are talking about and have no experience to draw from. For f***s sake some of you haven't even made out with a girl!? So head out, hook up, live a little, then come back and you can vote.    8;)

come on..that's not cool...Some people are religious and truely practice these behviors..

SOme others use religiousity as an excuse because of the fear of rejection.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on October 09, 2007, 07:23:52 PM
Yacov, is it possible to remove a vote like you can a post?


I don't think so.


Darn!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 10:15:08 PM
Quote
I propose that all virgins don't have the right to vote on this subject. If you've never had sex then you have no idea what you are talking about and have no experience to draw from. For f***s sake some of you haven't even made out with a girl!? So head out, hook up, live a little, then come back and you can vote.

This is not the place to be encouraging fornication!



Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 10:19:52 PM
Quote
I propose that all virgins don't have the right to vote on this subject. If you've never had sex then you have no idea what you are talking about and have no experience to draw from. For f***s sake some of you haven't even made out with a girl!? So head out, hook up, live a little, then come back and you can vote.

This is not the place to be encouraging fornication!





Really? I tought everyone here is an adult.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 10:24:49 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: cjd on October 09, 2007, 10:29:14 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 
Lisa is right lets try to keep it to a reasonable level. If our younger members are trying to do the right thing we should be encouraging them not leading them astray.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ehud on October 09, 2007, 10:32:55 PM
I'm in mord's boat, I'm practicing sexual modesty but only under duress at this point.  I simply don't have the time for it.  As soon as I'll have the opportunity, I'll take it, Jew or not. 
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ari on October 09, 2007, 10:54:17 PM
I try my best to avoid tempting situations.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 12:15:41 AM
I refrain from all of those things except I do shake hands with guys if they hold out their hand first.

Does it depend on your intention, though? I mean shaking hands could be wrong if you do not intend for it to be formal.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 12:53:59 AM
#1,2, and 3. Not 100% on #4 (about shaking hands, but rarely do it anyway.)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 01:04:50 AM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.

I have vast respect for Hasidim, but being of the Orthodox demonination, these particular Hasidim taboos are perfectly acceptable to me.

However, if a Jewish or a Gentile, because this really goes for everybody, feels that psychical contact with a woman would stimulate sexual tention or impure thoughts than it would be best for that individual to reframe from contact with a female.

As long as these actions are in good faith and are merely used as greeting gessures, they're fine, and are often signs of showing respect.

My aunt is good friends with a Hasidic rabbi, who when he goes on business puts aside the handshaking taboo in order to not offend Gentile women, who may not understand such restrictions.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 10, 2007, 01:39:53 AM
I personally don't care for the sex before marriage rule?


I HATE PEOPLE THAT ACT HOLIER THAN THOU JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING...

I think certain rules should be abided by but i don't agree that there should be a prohibition on sex before marriage..

WHAT IF YOU DON'T EVER PLAN TO GET MARRIED LIKE ME?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 01:48:55 AM
A wittle bit weird of a question!My sin or not sin is between myself and God.But I wouldn't kiss and tell.LOL
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 01:55:28 AM
I personally don't care for the sex before marriage rule?


I HATE PEOPLE THAT ACT HOLIER THAN THOU JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING...

I think certain rules should be abided by but i don't agree that there should be a prohibition on sex before marriage..

WHAT IF YOU DON'T EVER PLAN TO GET MARRIED LIKE ME?
Well, this is what's commanded of Jews in the Torah and is commanded of Christians in the bible. Sex outside of wedlock is prohibited.

G-d put us here to add to the population. If one doesn't end up getting married, then, I don't see it being a vast defiance of Jewish law, but it will certainly lead to one breaking Jewish law, just like what you are suggesting. That's why marriage is greatly encouraged. Sex was meant to be performed only by a husband and wife. Nothing else is acceptable. The same goes for Christianity.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 10, 2007, 01:57:59 AM
Yeh i agree it is a law..

I was actually more having a go at people who attack those who are less orthodox and don't exercise such rules

its the staunch religious people i can't stand
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 01:59:09 AM
Just a bit odd of a question.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 02:11:02 AM
Yeh i agree it is a law..

I was actually more having a go at people who attack those who are less orthodox and don't exercise such rules

its the staunch religious people i can't stand
Well those of the Reform movement, the most liberal of the movements, and the movement I consider to be a poor interpretation of Judaism and the Torah, would probably bring up the point you made. Reform Jews are so liberal, they most likely will have sex out of wedlock, because Reform makes so many principles of Jewish law optional. The Torah has set before Jews a number of commands that should be followed. Saying that the word of G-d is optional doesn't sit right with me.

Now being of the Orthodox movement, I must even admit that fulfilling all 613 mitzvot is a challenge and most don't be able to fulfill some. It's our job to fulfill as many as possible. G-d is just testing us to see if we can be as good of Jews as we can possibly be. I realize that some of the mitzvot will surely go unfulfilled by me, but attempting to do as many as possible is worthy of praise.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 10, 2007, 02:23:37 AM
The reform movement is a load of balony...

they have women leading the services on the bimah wearing kippot and tzisit.

The torah is very clear on the laws and ways Jews are meant to abide them..

I just think their are some Jews and Christians that turn people off religion by trying to act holier than thou and not respecting others with less extreme positions on topics like sex before marriage
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 02:53:46 AM
Im a virgin and will be till I meet miss right.I have 5 kids and a few animals....And Im a good dancer.6'2"190 pounds of healthy mass.OK I don't know where this is going either.disregard!LOL :D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 10, 2007, 03:21:35 AM
Im a virgin and will be till I meet miss right.I have 5 kids and a few animals....And Im a good dancer.6'2"190 pounds of healthy mass.OK I don't know where this is going either.disregard!LOL :D

Did you adopt the kids?

I figure 12 months in the Jewish equivalent of pergatory is worth a lifetime of sinfullness and fun.  ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 03:25:18 AM
LOL no there mine. ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: newman on October 10, 2007, 03:28:58 AM
Pre-marital sex is only a sin for Jews. It's not against the Seven laws of Noah, so all of us gentiles can go for it.  O0
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 03:38:43 AM
Your r so stupid and I love it
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 10, 2007, 03:46:03 AM
Those who sinn with Torah will be judged by Torah, an those who sinn without Torah will die without Torah; the payment for the sinn is death. And purgatory was invented by priests and rabbis. BTW Newman you don't live in the times of Noah. since his times there were convenants with Abraham, Moses, and Yeshua. 
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 03:48:51 AM
Tell us about your self ultra!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 10, 2007, 03:52:58 AM
Tell us about your self ultra!

Look on my introductionary threat and/or my public profile. 8;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: newman on October 10, 2007, 03:57:41 AM
BTW Newman you don't live in the times of Noah. since his times there were convenants with Abraham, Moses, and Yeshua. 
According to Torah:..............

The covenent with Noah still stands for both Jew AND gentile, the covenant with Abraham applies ONLY to Jews and there is no such thing as a covenant with 'that other man'.

I'll stick with Torah.

Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 10, 2007, 09:11:37 AM
Well I click none of the above  ::) But I think everyone already knew that  :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 10:45:27 AM

None of the above. Life is to short.  :)
lol... I agree. I don't think there should be a law prohibiting PDA, (public displays of Affection) for anyone. And I don't think it is good to dictate to people when to become intimate with someone else. I think that's a personal decision. If you're religious and your religion dictates that you shouldn't partake of hugging, touching or anything else , physical...then I don't have a problem with you if you don't. I just think its wrong to tell people NOT to do something because you dont' do it.

ETA: I don't think hugging someone, even a girlfriend/boyfriend could/should be considered inherently sexual because its physical contact, either. You could hug someone or kiss someone just because you care about them.

Oh, and I clicked on none of the above because I'm already married. HOWEVER I do shake hands with men who are friends of my husband, or if I'm in a professional setting, with new male co-workers as an introduction. I do that with females also. Why is a handshake or a hug considered sexual, praytell?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 10:50:38 AM
Did you ever kiss a man before?

I only kissed 2 girls on the cheek. Now I'm happy they didn't let me kiss them on the lips so I can save it for marriage.


Good for you, Yacov.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 11:00:51 AM
The reform movement is a load of balony...

they have women leading the services on the bimah wearing kippot and tzisit.

The torah is very clear on the laws and ways Jews are meant to abide them..

I just think their are some Jews and Christians that turn people off religion by trying to act holier than thou and not respecting others with less extreme positions on topics like sex before marriage
Great post, raiseyourfist. I'm a Christian but the last thing I expect is for another "Christian" to offer their words of wisdom where it pertains to intimacy w/ my husband. (Trying not to be descriptive.) Before my husband and I were married and had announced our engagement to my church members back in 1994, some female elders, whom I trusted and listened to for sage advice on everything else, pulled me to the side and asked me..."Are you pregnant?" As if my husband couldn't possibly love me and think I'm worthy to be his wife. >:(  Some people need to know when to open their mouths and when to shut them.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 10, 2007, 11:46:57 AM
i was about to complement you on your posts but you beat me to it... O0
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: ftf on October 10, 2007, 01:03:49 PM
Well I voted for just refraining from pre-marital sex, as I personally don't see anything wrong with doing the other things on that list as long as you exercise some constraint and control.

Having said that, the one time a girl wanted to kiss me, I didn't feel comfortable and "chickened out". I have hugged a few girls though, and I really don't see why people think it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 10, 2007, 01:15:45 PM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 02:49:54 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: ftf on October 10, 2007, 02:54:24 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Tzvi, as far as I can see, what Barach is saying is that there is no scriptural references to hugging, kissing and handshaking being forbidden, hence there are no applicable verses to be quoted.

I'm not trying to take any kind of side in this argument, I am not a Jew and therefore know very little about Jewish teaching.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 03:03:04 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Tzvi, as far as I can see, what Barach is saying is that there is no scriptural references to hugging, kissing and handshaking being forbidden, hence there are no applicable verses to be quoted.

I'm not trying to take any kind of side in this argument, I am not a Jew and therefore know very little about Jewish teaching.


According to the Rambam its assur from the Torah. Not Hasidut.

http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=586&txtSearch=kissing

Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 10, 2007, 03:11:50 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.



Ah shaddup, what do you know about it!?  ;D

 ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 05:22:45 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 05:27:29 PM
But he is right Erika,According to the Torah and the same for us Christians.Disobedience ;) is wrong.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 05:30:27 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.

According to the Torah Bible and Christian Bible it is a grave sin that cannot be considered. It IS wrong. Even Noachides should not commit sexual sins.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 05:36:17 PM
Nations fall for less.example   Rome
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 05:37:34 PM
Half of Roman men were Homosexuals.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 05:45:54 PM
But he is right Erika,According to the Torah and the same for us Christians.Disobedience ;) is wrong.
God gave us Christians free will, sarah. Not every Christian who loves God is going to choose what is good for them all of the time because they're human. Its also said that even married people shouldn't use contraception because of the idea that we're supposed to procreate....not do 'anything' for sheer pleasure with our spouses. (Again trying not to be too descriptive.) Those who follow the Torah and Bible to the letter should be commended. However, I love the verse in the Bible which says "Judge not lest ye be judged." Decisions that are good for some shouldn't be the deciding factor on what others choose to do with their lives, especially if they're not hurting anyone.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 05:48:19 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.

According to the Torah Bible and Christian Bible it is a grave sin that cannot be considered. It IS wrong. Even Noachides should not commit sexual sins.
THe wonderful thing about God is that he allows us to make mistakes and encourages us to come to him for forgiveness. He's not a one-sided God. Those who feel the need to repent after having sex before marriage will be forgiven by God. They can't be forgiven by man, because he has no power over someone who is equal to him.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 05:50:54 PM
Yes but if a man/woman intentionally goes out to practice sex outside of marriage thinking they can repent after they've indulged in illegal pleasure, thats wrong! God is the most Merciful but he forgives our mistakes and after one has committed a mistake he should learn from it and never repeat.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 05:52:51 PM
Yes but if a man/woman intentionally goes out to practice sex outside of marriage thinking they can repent after they've indulged in illegal pleasure, thats wrong! G-d is the most Merciful but he forgives our mistakes and after one has committed a mistake he should learn from it and never repeat.
Which is my point,  Sarah. WHatever a couple does, married or not, should be between them and God. I don't know about you but I don't have a heaven or hell to place sinners in. I'm human just like the rest of the population. No one is perfect.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 05:53:50 PM
These things are not to be mentioned among us. FOR us to allow such is wrong.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 05:55:22 PM
Yes but if a man/woman intentionally goes out to practice sex outside of marriage thinking they can repent after they've indulged in illegal pleasure, thats wrong! G-d is the most Merciful but he forgives our mistakes and after one has committed a mistake he should learn from it and never repeat.
Which is my point,  Sarah. WHatever a couple does, married or not, should be between them and G-d. I don't know about you but I don't have a heaven or hell to place sinners in. I'm human just like the rest of the population. No one is perfect.

Yeah I completely agree with that.
I actually thought that you were saying, its Ok to have sex out of marriage if you repent for it afterwards, my bad sorry. :)

However Yacov is right in saying that it shouldn't be allowed, because it isn't. That doesn't stop you from doing it though, its just not allowed.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: nessuno on October 10, 2007, 06:12:40 PM
Yes but if a man/woman intentionally goes out to practice sex outside of marriage thinking they can repent after they've indulged in illegal pleasure, thats wrong! G-d is the most Merciful but he forgives our mistakes and after one has committed a mistake he should learn from it and never repeat.
Which is my point,  Sarah. WHatever a couple does, married or not, should be between them and G-d. I don't know about you but I don't have a heaven or hell to place sinners in. I'm human just like the rest of the population. No one is perfect.
Well - it is very important - almost a life and death issue in today's world to encourage abstinence outside of marriage...especially when discussing the options with young people.  That is the only true way to prevent unwanted pregnancy and disease.  Humans Beings will do what they will and God may offer forgiveness but arming young people with knowledge/morals may save their life...in more ways then one.  
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 06:17:01 PM
Good answers ladies!Good women are so rare today. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Daniel on October 10, 2007, 06:18:13 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.

Where is the Halachic proof that we need to refrain from any physical contact from members of the opposite sex, including shaking hands. From my understanding, there is nothing explicitly stated in the Halacha about Shomer Negia requirements.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: ftf on October 10, 2007, 06:20:21 PM
Rather than shouting, can someone quote the bible verses that say that one should not kiss or hug outside of marriage. Anyone find the verses prohibiting sex outside of marriage, but I have never seen any prohibiting either of the other two things being here discussed.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 06:26:30 PM
To Daniel and FTF- I have allready posted it.

"According to the Rambam its assur from the Torah. Not Hasidut.

http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=586&txtSearch=kissing "


Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 06:34:01 PM
Been divorced for a few years and have been practicing since then ::)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 06:38:09 PM
Good and IT should stay that way.Good for you! :) O0
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 06:38:48 PM
Well the choices I make arent just for me anymore, so I have to be careful with them ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 06:42:21 PM
For your son?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 06:43:28 PM
Absolutely, he always comes first in everything i do.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 06:47:35 PM
Thats great. You're a really sweet person KellyMaureen.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 06:59:43 PM
Thanks, you'll understand that feeling when youre a mother O0
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Jasmina on October 10, 2007, 07:10:59 PM
  How old is your son Kelly?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 07:24:03 PM
Hes 11, his name is Adam

Yes from everything ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Jasmina on October 10, 2007, 07:27:15 PM
  wow!!! congratulations on that!!!! kids are the greatest tresor in the world!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 07:38:45 PM
No I dont go as far as the shaking hands thing, I have to shake hands with men during the work day, and I dont see anything wrong with shaking hands.  Most of my friends are men, so I am very comfortable with men, I hug my friends.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 07:54:51 PM
Sure, like I would kiss a relative, on the cheek.
Administrator for a security company, I work with mostly men.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 08:01:39 PM
Sound interesting :)!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 08:07:08 PM
I dont see anything wrong with a kiss on the cheek.....and if I had sexual thoughts about my male friends..they wouldnt be my friends any longer, you cant have those feelings for friends and still remain friends.  Luckily we are all entitled to live our lives as we see fit in the US ;)  Ive lived my life to this point with few regrets, Im content.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:18:48 PM
These things are not to be mentioned among us. FOR us to allow such is wrong.
Sidebar (sort of) Racism is wrong on EVERY level but people still do it. There are some things you can't stop people from doing.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:25:08 PM
Rather than shouting, can someone quote the bible verses that say that one should not kiss or hug outside of marriage. Anyone find the verses prohibiting sex outside of marriage, but I have never seen any prohibiting either of the other two things being here discussed.
There is a Bible verse that says we shouldn't fornicate. I can't remember where it is though. I must grab my Bible for the next responses.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:29:00 PM
I dont see anything wrong with a kiss on the cheek.....and if I had sexual thoughts about my male friends..they wouldnt be my friends any longer, you cant have those feelings for friends and still remain friends.  Luckily we are all entitled to live our lives as we see fit in the US ;)  Ive lived my life to this point with few regrets, Im content.
Great post, Kellymaureen. :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 08:31:34 PM
Kelly im with you, you sound typically Black...NO controls ,Just live!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 08:36:53 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Hasidim is a practice of having the furthest possible restrictions to help in preventing the breaking of any Jewish laws. Hasidic Jews do not kiss, hug or shake hands with the strange women to avoid impure thoughts or worse. This is a sound idea and one I have great respect for.

However, Orthodox Jews can shake hands with strange women, just as long as it doesn't bring about impure thoughts. Orthodoxy is the most traditional of the demoninations, and abides by everything the Torah commands, nothing more, nothing less.

There is nothing strong with taking extra precautions or additional methods in abiding by Jewish law. Those who take these extra precautions wouldn't be considered to be breaking Orthodoxy tradition. If one wants to not shake hands with strange women, as to avoid impure thoughts than it's not taboo. In fact it should be encouraged to be a careful as possible. That is why those who want to ensure their purity become a part of the Hasidic movement.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 08:37:23 PM
Thanks erica.

I have control, and a few regrets, but what can you do, move on and keep living ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 08:39:17 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other demoninations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Tzvi, as far as I can see, what Barach is saying is that there is no scriptural references to hugging, kissing and handshaking being forbidden, hence there are no applicable verses to be quoted.

I'm not trying to take any kind of side in this argument, I am not a Jew and therefore know very little about Jewish teaching.


According to the Rambam its assur from the Torah. Not Hasidut.

http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=586&txtSearch=kissing


It's a Hasidic tradition.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:41:16 PM
Kelly im with you, you sound typically Black...NO controls ,Just live!
What in the ???  :o She sounds black because??? Kelly's picture is right next to her posts. Are you okay?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 08:43:23 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.
As a good Jew it is his concern. Good Jews should encourage other Jews to follow Jewish law. Good Christians should encourage other Christians to follow the Christian bible's commands.

The Torah and the Christian bible decide what is taboo and what is not. How can one go against the word of G-d?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 08:43:51 PM
Lol I barely even tan, I burn, then have a little color for a day or so, I am as pale as they come ;D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 08:44:13 PM
I meant Erika u Erika have no control like a typical black!not you  b others good!
girl!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Mishmaat on October 10, 2007, 08:46:04 PM
Kelly im with you, you sound typically Black...NO controls ,Just live!
What in the ???  :o She sounds black because??? Kelly's picture is right next to her posts. Are you okay?

Yeah, he's quite a cartoon character. I don't know if he's trying too hard or if he's really that lame.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:47:31 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.
As a good Jew it is his concern. Good Jews should encourage other Jews to follow Jewish law. Good Christians should encourage other Christians to follow the Christian bible's commands.

The Torah and the Christian bible decide what is taboo and what is not. How can one go against the word of G-d?
But if they don't listen to  him, or anyone else telling them about being sexually pure, he  shouldn't then, beat them over the head with it to make them choose the way he lives.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:48:27 PM
I meant Erika u Erika have no control like a typical black!not you  b others good!
girl!
Your sentence is confusing... what are you saying, again?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 08:49:25 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.

According to the Torah Bible and Christian Bible it is a grave sin that cannot be considered. It IS wrong. Even Noachides should not commit sexual sins.
THe wonderful thing about G-d is that he allows us to make mistakes and encourages us to come to him for forgiveness. He's not a one-sided G-d. Those who feel the need to repent after having sex before marriage will be forgiven by G-d. They can't be forgiven by man, because he has no power over someone who is equal to him.
G-d isn't so forgiving. If one commits murder, he will not forgive.

Yes, Christians are allowed to confess their sins to a priest or reverend, but that doesn't necessarily mean G-d will forgive them. It is a plea to G-d for forgiveness. Whether G-d decides to forgive that person cannot be discovered in life.

Jews have a chance to repent on Yom Kippur, but that doesn't mean G-d will forgive us for our sins. It is a plea for forgiveness.

Just like in court, a criminal can plea innocent, but that doesn't mean he will be found as such.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:49:34 PM
Kelly im with you, you sound typically Black...NO controls ,Just live!
What in the ???  :o She sounds black because??? Kelly's picture is right next to her posts. Are you okay?

Yeah, he's quite a cartoon character. I don't know if he's trying too hard or if he's really that lame.
I'll take the latter for a thousand, Alex.   O0
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:51:53 PM
He thinks he's black.


Well I think he's crazy. lol Speaking of cartoon characters, he's reminding me more and more of Charlie Brown's teacher. Wha-Wha-Whawha! lol But I digress.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Vito on October 10, 2007, 08:52:54 PM

G-d isn't so forgiving. If one commits murder, he will not forgive.

Yes, Christians are allowed to confess their sins to a priest or reverend, but that doesn't necessarily mean G-d will forgive them. It is a plea to G-d for forgiveness. Whether G-d decides to forgive that person cannot be discovered in life.

Jews have a chance to repent on Yom Kippur, but that doesn't mean G-d will forgive us for our sins. It is a plea for forgiveness.

Just like in court, a criminal can plea innocent, but that doesn't mean he will be found as such.

You're thinking of Catholicism.. only they believe in confession.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Erica on October 10, 2007, 08:55:04 PM
We have teenaged members like FTF, Sarah and Dexter. 

And even though they're only three people, this is a Torah true Jewish forum.  So fornication should not be encouraged for young men or women. 


It shouldn't be allowed for people of any age. Only sex in marriage should be encouraged.


Yacov, I don't think you should tell people what they can or can't do in their own personal lives on their own personal time. No one is going to judge you for remaining a virgin until marriage, for it is admirable, however its not right for you to determine what is right or wrong for someone to do; especially where their own relationships are concerned.

According to the Torah Bible and Christian Bible it is a grave sin that cannot be considered. It IS wrong. Even Noachides should not commit sexual sins.
THe wonderful thing about G-d is that he allows us to make mistakes and encourages us to come to him for forgiveness. He's not a one-sided G-d. Those who feel the need to repent after having sex before marriage will be forgiven by G-d. They can't be forgiven by man, because he has no power over someone who is equal to him.
G-d isn't so forgiving. If one commits murder, he will not forgive.

Yes, Christians are allowed to confess their sins to a priest or reverend, but that doesn't necessarily mean G-d will forgive them. It is a plea to G-d for forgiveness. Whether G-d decides to forgive that person cannot be discovered in life.

Jews have a chance to repent on Yom Kippur, but that doesn't mean G-d will forgive us for our sins. It is a plea for forgiveness.

Just like in court, a criminal can plea innocent, but that doesn't mean he will be found as such.


But the criminal doesn't admit his wrongs and in the first two situations, the people are pleading guilty. You should have compared it to a plea bargain.


You're right about that. Criminals who kill people usually say they're innocent (when they actually did the deed, OJ) and then right before they take that walk down the green mile to the executioner's chair, they confess everything to God. I think its way too late for that at that time. lol If it isn't in your heart to admit wrongdoing the moment you do it, I don't think ANYONE can trust you/nor should they. But then, I'm no Goddess.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 08:55:25 PM
The hugging, kissing and hand shaking taboos are only a part of Hasidim. They're perfectly acceptable in other denominations.


This is a false statement. If you are going to bring a statement like that then please back it up with Halahic proof, Im no Mr. perfect but writing wronge Halahic statements should be countered by any Jew who hears or sees it.
Hasidim is a practice of having the furthest possible restrictions to help in preventing the breaking of any Jewish laws. Hasidic Jews do not kiss, hug or shake hands with the strange women to avoid impure thoughts or worse. This is a sound idea and one I have great respect for.

However, Orthodox Jews can shake hands with strange women, just as long as it doesn't bring about impure thoughts. Orthodoxy is the most traditional of the denominations, and abides by everything the Torah commands, nothing more, nothing less.

There is nothing strong with taking extra precautions or additional methods in abiding by Jewish law. Those who take these extra precautions wouldn't be considered to be breaking Orthodoxy tradition. If one wants to not shake hands with strange women, as to avoid impure thoughts than it's not taboo. In fact it should be encouraged to be a careful as possible. That is why those who want to ensure their purity become a part of the Hasidic movement.


Not all Haredim (Ultra-Orthodox Jews) are Hasidic. I'm not even completely RELIGIOUS yet and even I don't break the sexual laws.


Well, Ultra-Orthodox tends to lean torward Hasidim. I'm talking about Hasidim itself.

I'm just beginning my teachings as well in Orthodoxy, but I too have always known better in regards to sex being a vast sin outside of wedlock.

Even if one is not religious, it's just a practice of good morals.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Vito on October 10, 2007, 09:06:00 PM
What is Mitnagdism?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: The Shadow on October 10, 2007, 09:19:58 PM
Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim:

Young man, you listen up!  Please don't start posts about sexual modesty.  I'm single right now, in my 30's and I'm trying not to think about sex and all that stuff.   G-d, knows I deserve hot sex, as hard as I work.  However, if you know a good looking, skinny girl, without kids, give me a shout.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 10, 2007, 09:22:02 PM
Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim:

Young man, you listen up!  Please don't start posts about sexual modesty.  I'm single right now, in my 30's and I'm trying not to think about sex and all that stuff.   G-d, knows I deserve hot sex, as hard as I work.  However, if you know a good looking, skinny girl, without kids, give me a shout.


 :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 09:27:57 PM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 10, 2007, 09:51:12 PM
I believe in virginity outside of marriage, no excuses.

I have no problem with hugs for the most part, unless they are gratuitously done with the purpose of maximizing body contact.

I am somewhat divided on kissing before marriage. I don't think it is wise usually, but am not about to make it a rule. :-P
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 10, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
I'm Shomer Negiah! I'm just waiting for G-d to bless me with a woman like Kelly.

Thanks Ben, that was a nice thing to say :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Hail Columbia on October 10, 2007, 10:33:16 PM

G-d isn't so forgiving. If one commits murder, he will not forgive.

Yes, Christians are allowed to confess their sins to a priest or reverend, but that doesn't necessarily mean G-d will forgive them. It is a plea to G-d for forgiveness. Whether G-d decides to forgive that person cannot be discovered in life.

Jews have a chance to repent on Yom Kippur, but that doesn't mean G-d will forgive us for our sins. It is a plea for forgiveness.

Just like in court, a criminal can plea innocent, but that doesn't mean he will be found as such.

You're thinking of Catholicism.. only they believe in confession.

Orthodox Christians believe in confession as well.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: nessuno on October 10, 2007, 10:35:51 PM

G-d isn't so forgiving. If one commits murder, he will not forgive.

Yes, Christians are allowed to confess their sins to a priest or reverend, but that doesn't necessarily mean G-d will forgive them. It is a plea to G-d for forgiveness. Whether G-d decides to forgive that person cannot be discovered in life.

Jews have a chance to repent on Yom Kippur, but that doesn't mean G-d will forgive us for our sins. It is a plea for forgiveness.

Just like in court, a criminal can plea innocent, but that doesn't mean he will be found as such.

You're thinking of Catholicism.. only they believe in confession.

Orthodox Christians believe in confession as well.
Hi Hail Columbia - what do you mean by Orthodox Christian?  I never heard that description before.  :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: nessuno on October 10, 2007, 10:43:12 PM
Orthodox Christians are like Catholic Byzantines, Greek Orthodox, Coptic??, Russian Orthodox. They have inter communion with the Catholic church. BUT they do the "sign of the cross" the opposite way that Catholics do and the Vatican "Holy See" has no authority over them, although they are affiliated.
Very interesting - I did not know that - Thank You for helping me out on that one  :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 10:59:54 PM
Baruch im sorry to correct you but it is not Hassidim, please go to the link I posted. Its a Halahic website of Sefardim (specifically Syrians). Like I said before the law is derived from the Rambam who lived wayy before the Baal Shem tov (founder of Hassidim), and he says its from the Torah (Yakov- not a Rabbinic fence).
  Im not perfect, but the way to perfection is threw acquiring Daat (knowledge of the Torah)- a combination of Wisdom and understanding and then applying it (aka perfecting yourself).

Also about the issue of Hassidim, - all Hassidim are not as strict as other Orthodox rulings, and for example the Breslov just follow the Shulhan Aruh w/o necessarily making fences. Most Orthodox (except maybe Modern Orthodox) Rabbis are stricted then Hassidim, so lets get ride of that myth.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 11:03:03 PM
http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=586&txtSearch=kissing

(you can hear it also -just 5 minutes short)

"So we learn some rules that applies to us. We must be careful and follow the restrictions and refrain from touching ladies who are forbidden to us. This would include a young girl or women who is going out with or engaged to a man. They are not married yet, so according to Rambam, touching such a girl would be forbidden from the Torah. We have to be careful because unfortunately many are lenient since they are engaged with a ring and are about to get married. They are lenient and think they can touch and kiss, and so on and so forth. According to Rambam, this would be forbidden from the Torah. It’s not a good sign for the future when a relationship starts on such a weak foundation. So we must inform the young men that are going with a girl to be careful to follow the rules of Nigeea. This is not an option. We want them to find their mate and be married, but they must be careful. It is not something that is from the Chasidim that they made up. It is written in the Halacha."

Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 11, 2007, 01:38:20 AM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D

I think many don't have a choice in it  ;D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 11, 2007, 01:46:28 AM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D

I think many don't have a choice in it  ;D
:::D Well, "celibacy" has worked so far! Well, for me at least.

Well for us women yes we are different  8;)

Not horny little cane toads  :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 11, 2007, 01:46:33 AM
http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=586&txtSearch=kissing

(you can hear it also -just 5 minutes short)

"So we learn some rules that applies to us. We must be careful and follow the restrictions and refrain from touching ladies who are forbidden to us. This would include a young girl or women who is going out with or engaged to a man. They are not married yet, so according to Rambam, touching such a girl would be forbidden from the Torah. We have to be careful because unfortunately many are lenient since they are engaged with a ring and are about to get married. They are lenient and think they can touch and kiss, and so on and so forth. According to Rambam, this would be forbidden from the Torah. It’s not a good sign for the future when a relationship starts on such a weak foundation. So we must inform the young men that are going with a girl to be careful to follow the rules of Nigeea. This is not an option. We want them to find their mate and be married, but they must be careful. It is not something that is from the Chasidim that they made up. It is written in the Halacha."


But I'm not saying the Hasidic Jews originated the custom, they do practice it though, and for the same reason. Most Hasidic rabbis will tell you that it's taboo, because they are aware of how men think and the impure thoughts that could occure if contact is made. Today in Hasidim it is considered wrong to touch a strange woman in any way. It may be an adopted custom, but it is the custom of the Hasidic people.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 11, 2007, 01:51:45 AM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D

I think many don't have a choice in it  ;D
NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 11, 2007, 02:01:49 AM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D

I think many don't have a choice in it  ;D
NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.
I thought that priests practice "chastity" Celibacy is only temporary while a vow of chastity is for ever.
Anywho, you're right. celibacy is not the word I had in mind, so that's why I put it in "quotes"
I practice abstinence...the BEST way to be while unmarried in my opinion!
Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy, which is an indefinite refrainment from sex.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 03:08:38 AM

Well, you all knock yourselves out with that celibacy stuff, good luck with that.  :::D

I think many don't have a choice in it  ;D
NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.

I'm part of this movement because we're all under the same threat from the bastard nazi muslim fascists and I agree with the JTF political stance for America and Israel.

On the refranement until marriage stuff, well, I'm 40 and not married, no prospects or plans of getting married, and there's a very good chance I may never marry, so that whole abstaining until wedlock, isn't quite going to work for me, M'kay.  ;)

And for the record, I'm not promoting my lifestyle, I'm just giving the guys some good natured razzing. Now careful while you get off that high horse, wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.   8;)


Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: newman on October 11, 2007, 04:25:33 AM

NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.

I'm part of this movement because we're all under the same threat from the bastard nazi muslim fascists and I agree with the JTF political stance for America and Israel.

On the refranement until marriage stuff, well, I'm 40 and not married, no prospects or plans of getting married, and there's a very good chance I may never marry, so that whole abstaining until wedlock, isn't quite going to work for me, M'kay.  ;)

And for the record, I'm not promoting my lifestyle, I'm just giving the guys some good natured razzing. Now careful while you get off that high horse, wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.   8;)




I've already taken up the question with Lubab.

There is NO prohibition on gentiles having sex outside of marriage. According to the Seven Laws of Noah (the laws that govern gentiles), the only sexual prohibitions for gentiles are homosexuality, bestiality, adultery and incest.

Jews are another matter. Their 613 Mitzviot are tougher than our seven.

Celibacy is also bad for mental health. Ask any navy chief, factory foreman or mining boss. Men who do not get regular sexual release go crazy, drink too much and start fights.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Vito on October 11, 2007, 06:07:06 AM

NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.

I'm part of this movement because we're all under the same threat from the bastard nazi muslim fascists and I agree with the JTF political stance for America and Israel.

On the refranement until marriage stuff, well, I'm 40 and not married, no prospects or plans of getting married, and there's a very good chance I may never marry, so that whole abstaining until wedlock, isn't quite going to work for me, M'kay.  ;)

And for the record, I'm not promoting my lifestyle, I'm just giving the guys some good natured razzing. Now careful while you get off that high horse, wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.   8;)




I've already taken up the question with Lubab.

There is NO prohibition on gentiles having sex outside of marriage. According to the Seven Laws of Noah (the laws that govern gentiles), the only sexual prohibitions for gentiles are homosexuality, bestiality, adultery and incest.

Jews are another matter. Their 613 Mitzviot are tougher than our seven.

Celibacy is also bad for mental health. Ask any navy chief, factory foreman or mining boss. Men who do not get regular sexual release go crazy, drink too much and start fights.

Sex outside of marriage is forbidden in Christianity, it's taken from Jewish law.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 11, 2007, 07:33:25 AM
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 11, 2007, 07:36:58 AM

NewYorker just doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand the need for morals in the US and Israel, then, I'm not sure why he's a part of this movement.

And it's not celibacy, celibacy is what is priests practice, and means you don't intend to have sex at all. Jews do not practice celibacy, we practice refranement from sex until we are within wedlock.

I'm part of this movement because we're all under the same threat from the bastard nazi muslim fascists and I agree with the JTF political stance for America and Israel.

On the refranement until marriage stuff, well, I'm 40 and not married, no prospects or plans of getting married, and there's a very good chance I may never marry, so that whole abstaining until wedlock, isn't quite going to work for me, M'kay.  ;)

And for the record, I'm not promoting my lifestyle, I'm just giving the guys some good natured razzing. Now careful while you get off that high horse, wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.   8;)




I've already taken up the question with Lubab.

There is NO prohibition on gentiles having sex outside of marriage. According to the Seven Laws of Noah (the laws that govern gentiles), the only sexual prohibitions for gentiles are homosexuality, bestiality, adultery and incest.

Jews are another matter. Their 613 Mitzviot are tougher than our seven.

Celibacy is also bad for mental health. Ask any navy chief, factory foreman or mining boss. Men who do not get regular sexual release go crazy, drink too much and start fights.

Sex outside of marriage is forbidden in Christianity, it's taken from Jewish law.

Good for the Christians...does that mean they have one ownership over the Noahides?

Actually, I do have a question...are Noahides forbidden to practice Kashrut or other Jewish Mitzvot that isn't a Noahide law?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 11, 2007, 07:49:02 AM
Yes but if a man/woman intentionally goes out to practice sex outside of marriage thinking they can repent after they've indulged in illegal pleasure, thats wrong! G-d is the most Merciful but he forgives our mistakes and after one has committed a mistake he should learn from it and never repeat.
Which is my point,  Sarah. WHatever a couple does, married or not, should be between them and G-d. I don't know about you but I don't have a heaven or hell to place sinners in. I'm human just like the rest of the population. No one is perfect.

I just want to add to this discussion...there are two main types of sins: One you do against Gd and one you do against your fellow human being...Both require forgiveness.

The laws which one commits against Gd will, for the most part, be forgiven because Gd is merciful..Gd willing.

On the other hand, sin against "Man" is another story...if you hurt another person, you need to be remorseful and hopefully you'll be forgiven.

So sexual immodesty might be a sin against Gd..and perhaps yourself.

The Torah as rules and regulations and the Talmud and explanations put forth by the Rabbis are fences to prevent one from getting addicted to breaking the rules...It's not just preventing one from fornicating..it's preventing them from getting even close from doing it by, for example, not shaking hands with the opposite sex.

In as much I understand and respect these rules, what my tempt me is far less what might tempt Yaacov or Tzvi..Like I always say, "To each their own".
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 11, 2007, 09:23:08 AM
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Sounds Kinky can I watch  8;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Lisa on October 11, 2007, 11:14:12 AM
Quote
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Dan, that's way too much personal information for this forum. 

Mills, you are right.  Adultery is sex outside of marriage. 
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 11, 2007, 02:39:39 PM
Quote
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Dan, that's way too much personal information for this forum. 

Mills, you are right.  Adultery is sex outside of marriage. 

And in that case, pre-marital sex is forbidden for Noachides as well.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 11, 2007, 02:52:28 PM
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Sounds Kinky can I watch  8;)

oh really?  This is a religious forum (slaps my own face)....no Danny no!!! no dirty thoughts!
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 11, 2007, 02:54:02 PM
Quote
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Dan, that's way too much personal information for this forum. 

Mills, you are right.  Adultery is sex outside of marriage. 


sorry lisa, i was saying that in jest..i don't own handcuffs.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Sarah on October 11, 2007, 03:45:06 PM
Quote
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Dan, that's way too much personal information for this forum. 

Mills, you are right.  Adultery is sex outside of marriage. 


sorry lisa, i was saying that in jest..i don't own handcuffs.

 ;D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 06:07:08 PM


People, we gotta get these boys fiancee's pronto!   ;D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 11, 2007, 06:19:27 PM


People, we gotta get these boys fiancee's pronto!   ;D

you should find a Jewish lady for yourself (im serious). Maybe what you have done and the lifestyle you have chosen is what prevented you from finding your soul-mate. Would you be able to come to Queens and meet this Rabbi who can help you out?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 06:39:44 PM


People, we gotta get these boys fiancee's pronto!   ;D

you should find a Jewish lady for yourself (im serious). Maybe what you have done and the lifestyle you have chosen is what prevented you from finding your soul-mate. Would you be able to come to Queens and meet this Rabbi who can help you out?

You don't understand, I'm totally un-religious, and I'm pretty old (getting up there), and very used to it, you get very set in your ways after living like that your whole life, I wouldn't be compatible with a nice religious Jewish lady, a nice religious Jewish lady should be with a nice religous Jewish man, I'm not, I'm a nice, un-religious Jewish man, there's a huge difference.  :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 11, 2007, 06:47:10 PM
Quote
and I'm pretty old (getting up there),

Oh man, 40 is "old".....im not real close, but not real far either, so Ill be old soon...noooooooo :laugh:
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: cjd on October 11, 2007, 06:55:41 PM
Quote
and I'm pretty old (getting up there),

Oh man, 40 is "old".....im not real close, but not real far either, so Ill be old soon...noooooooo :laugh:
Forty is nothing don't worry it wont hurt a bit ::)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 07:06:58 PM
Quote
and I'm pretty old (getting up there),

Oh man, 40 is "old".....im not real close, but not real far either, so Ill be old soon...noooooooo :laugh:

Actually I have a young face and I'm fit, so people don't beleive me when I tell them my age they all think I just turned 30, it's flattering. As far as it goes, mostly I notice it in my attitude, , after you've been on the planet 40 years and having an active life a whole lot of things become "been there, done that" lol. It's good though, you can draw from experience in decision making and avoid a lot of the f*** ups of younger less experienced people.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 11, 2007, 07:09:48 PM
Yeah I get mistaken for mid 20s, its cool and I dont mind telling my age.
I dont feel over 30 thats for sure ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 07:13:20 PM
Yeah I get mistaken for mid 20s, its cool and I dont mind telling my age.
I dont feel over 30 thats for sure ;)

I still don't understand how I'm not 19, I was 19, I went to bed and woke up a couple of times, then I find myself being 40, how'd that happen? 21 years? I just figured it'd be a little later in the week.  ;D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: kellymaureen on October 11, 2007, 07:15:17 PM
i dont want to be 19 again lol(ok maybe and know what I know now:P) .....i love the age I am now, and every age ive been so far has had its VERY good points ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 11, 2007, 07:17:26 PM
i dont want to be 19 again lol(ok maybe and know what I know now:P) .....i love the age I am now, and every age ive been so far has had its VERY good points ;)

Yeah, knowing then what I know NOW. I was soooo, stupid back then.  :::D
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: newman on October 12, 2007, 05:05:38 AM
Quote
Anytime i feel the need...i handcuff my wrists so that i prevent touching myself...Is that kosher for you guys?

Dan, that's way too much personal information for this forum. 

Mills, you are right.  Adultery is sex outside of marriage. 

And in that case, pre-marital sex is forbidden for Noachides as well.

Adultery is only when a married person has sex with someone other than their partner.

Noachides can have sex with anybody except: someone of the same sex, a relative, a married person or an animal. Marriage is a good idea, but NOT mandatory for gentiles as it is for Jews.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 12, 2007, 05:17:27 AM

None of the above. Life is to short.  :)


LIFE ISN'T SHORT.. LIFE IS THE LONGEST THING ANYONE EVER DOES...

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING THATS LONGER
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: newman on October 12, 2007, 05:20:08 AM




LIFE ISN'T SHORT.. LIFE IS THE LONGEST THING ANYONE EVER DOES...

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING THATS LONGER
Burn in hell, knowing me. :(
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 12, 2007, 08:14:24 AM




LIFE ISN'T SHORT.. LIFE IS THE LONGEST THING ANYONE EVER DOES...

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING THATS LONGER
Burn in hell, knowing me. :(

Well at least you wont be lonely ???
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: raiseyourfist on October 12, 2007, 09:09:53 AM
I am going to hell for my firm beliefs on ligitimizing intermarriage and other unwholesome acts of religeon...

speaking of Hell has anyone heard of DANTE'S INFERNO....

i asked Chaim earlier but he hasn't heard of it
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 15, 2007, 07:37:17 PM
So far, Ive done well concerning modesty,however at a price.Sin,is easy to commit,hard to get over....
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 15, 2007, 08:20:18 PM

None of the above. Life is to short.  :)


LIFE ISN'T SHORT.. LIFE IS THE LONGEST THING ANYONE EVER DOES...

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING THATS LONGER

Life is short, really short. Know how many days the average man has to live?

28,000 days, from birth to death, that is if you make it to 77 years old without getting hit by a bus or choking on a bite out of an apple.
At 40 I only have 13,000 days left. Used up more than half. 

It's short.

So get your a*ses out there and enjoy it while you can!  8)

Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 15, 2007, 08:25:20 PM
New yorker,Im from NY as well.BTW.But when we face God what will we say?We just went crazy with lust?
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: New Yorker on October 15, 2007, 08:33:20 PM
New yorker,Im from NY as well.BTW.But when we face G-d what will we say?We just went crazy with lust?

LOL no! I'm not advocating a life of debauchery. ::) I'm saying get the most out life, in a wholesome healthy exuberant way. Live, love, laugh, eat tasty food, love your woman, man, wife, or husband depending on your situation, keep your love letters and throw out your old bank statements, worry less about things that don't matter in the long run; Live like you only have 12,999 days left.    :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 15, 2007, 08:39:18 PM
Gotcha,Bro!Sorry I miss understood!Smile
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Merkava on October 18, 2007, 06:14:37 PM
Indeed ...you are only young once and you have to make the most out of it in a responsible way.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 18, 2007, 06:17:51 PM
No comment,  but pride does come before the fall! :-[
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 18, 2007, 06:38:58 PM
No comment,  but pride does come before the fall! :-[

True but we learn from what we do and it make us who we are 9 times out of 10 a better person.  ;)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 18, 2007, 06:50:34 PM
Yea .I guess . :)
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Kiwi on October 18, 2007, 06:54:03 PM
Yea .I guess . :)

God never expected you to be prefect.
Title: Re: To What Extent Do You Practice Sexual Modesty?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 18, 2007, 06:55:29 PM
Thanks. :)