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I removed my previous comment.

Even if Rabin was a pursuer, the Israeli voters could have removed him by electing a new official.

I agree with with this.
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General Discussion / Re: Organic robot structure
« Last post by angryChineseKahanist on Today at 12:40:12 AM »
$150k because it's better to spend more and avoid the moral problems.

Hi. I don't post a whole lot anymore. I sometimes read a bit and catch up on the forum.

It was all a little too much drama for me for a while.

We had 10 active members before Trump was elected. After that we had 3 active members.

Some of the people who disappeared have slowly returned.

I never left. I've been here for 21 years. And I don't send money anymore.
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General Discussion / Re: Organic robot structure
« Last post by angryChineseKahanist on Today at 12:35:09 AM »
Humanzees are back!
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בס''ד

1. For legal reasons, I am limited in what I can say about Yigal Amir. It is illegal to directly praise or advocate assassinations. There are many things which I would love to expose in both our Hebrew and our English videos, but I am forced to restrict myself because I am a law-abiding citizen and JTF is a law-abiding organization.

2. Under the laws of state of Israel (and the United States for that matter), Amir is innocent and has been unjustly incarcerated for more than 23 years. Amir was clearly entrapped by Shabak agent Avishai Raviv. When a government agent persuades a citizen to commit an illegal act which that citizen would not have committed without government persuasion, that is the definition of entrapment. An entrapped defendant is not guilty of the offense. The government is not permitted to manufacture crimes by convincing law-abiding citizens to break the law.

3. Amir did not want to kill Yitzchak Rabin but was constantly pressured by Raviv to do so: "Be a man! If you believe that Rabin is murdering Jews and endangering Israel, then you have an obligation to get rid of him! If you don't do it, then you are guilty of spilling innocent Jewish blood and of threatening Israel's existence." After repeating these arguments numerous times, Raviv finally convinced Amir. The gun which Amir used was also given to him by Raviv.

4. As far as Torah law is concerned, for legal reasons I can only speak in general terms. I cannot address the Amir case specifically for legal reasons. But in general, what you say above is liberal Western "morality" and not Torah values. Under your rules, if someone had decided to kill Adolf Hitler in 1932, he would be a "murderer". You also argue that a Jew cannot kill someone just because they disagree with him. Oh really? Moses ordered the Levites to kill 3000 Jews during chet haegel (the golden calf sin) just because it was their opinion that we needed an intermediary to reach Hashem during prayer. On Purim, we celebrate how Mordechai and the Jews in the Persian Empire killed over 70,000 supporters of Haman because of their views. On Chanukah, we celebrate the Maccabees who killed thousands of their fellow Jews because they embraced Greek Hellenistic culture (which was quite similar to modern Western culture).

5. There is no contradiction between advocating for Amir's release as I do in the video by asserting the defense of entrapment and also pointing out that Rabin was a mass murderer who imperilled Israel's existence.

1. You know better than I how much free speech you have in discussing these issues. Yet I hope you understand that I can only address your stated arguments, not the hidden ones.

2. I agree that Amir was unjustly incarcerated, but I also believe that his action was questionable at best in the eyes of Heaven.

3. Again, I agree that Amir was innocent before a court of law because he was severely pressured.   

4. As Noachide confirmed, these are not my rules and we aren't discussing Hitler or the golden calf. We are discussing if Rabin's killing was justified under the law of the pursuer. If it was, that opens up a whole can of worms when it comes to Israeli politics because it means that killing your political opponents is justified as long as you show they endangered the lives of others in some way or other.   

5. True, but you didn't mention the pursuer argument in the video.

According to Torah Law, it is not permissible to save someone by killing his pursuer unless this is the only way to save the victim. Even if Rabin was a pursuer, the Israeli voters could have removed him by electing a new official.
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Chaim, your video said that Yigal Amir assassinated Rabin because a government agent incited and convinced him to do so. You didn't mention the laws of a pursuer.

I know that Judaism has the laws of a pursuer. The problem with that argument is that anyone can accuse anybody of being a pursuer. If leftist Jews believed that Rabbi Kahane's rhetoric endangered Jewish lives, would that mean that Rav Kahane is a pursuer, too?

בס''ד

1. For legal reasons, I am limited in what I can say about Yigal Amir. It is illegal to directly praise or advocate assassinations. There are many things which I would love to expose in both our Hebrew and our English videos, but I am forced to restrict myself because I am a law-abiding citizen and JTF is a law-abiding organization.

2. Under the laws of state of Israel (and the United States for that matter), Amir is innocent and has been unjustly incarcerated for more than 23 years. Amir was clearly entrapped by Shabak agent Avishai Raviv. When a government agent persuades a citizen to commit an illegal act which that citizen would not have committed without government persuasion, that is the definition of entrapment. An entrapped defendant is not guilty of the offense. The government is not permitted to manufacture crimes by convincing law-abiding citizens to break the law.

3. Amir did not want to kill Yitzchak Rabin but was constantly pressured by Raviv to do so: "Be a man! If you believe that Rabin is murdering Jews and endangering Israel, then you have an obligation to get rid of him! If you don't do it, then you are guilty of spilling innocent Jewish blood and of threatening Israel's existence." After repeating these arguments numerous times, Raviv finally convinced Amir. The gun which Amir used was also given to him by Raviv.

4. As far as Torah law is concerned, for legal reasons I can only speak in general terms. I cannot address the Amir case specifically for legal reasons. But in general, what you say above is liberal Western "morality" and not Torah values. Under your rules, if someone had decided to kill Adolf Hitler in 1932, he would be a "murderer". You also argue that a Jew cannot kill someone just because they disagree with him. Oh really? Moses ordered the Levites to kill 3000 Jews during chet haegel (the golden calf sin) just because it was their opinion that we needed an intermediary to reach Hashem during prayer. On Purim, we celebrate how Mordechai and the Jews in the Persian Empire killed over 70,000 supporters of Haman because of their views. On Chanukah, we celebrate the Maccabees who killed thousands of their fellow Jews because they embraced Greek Hellenistic culture (which was quite similar to modern Western culture).

5. There is no contradiction between advocating for Amir's release as I do in the video by asserting the defense of entrapment and also pointing out that Rabin was a mass murderer who imperilled Israel's existence.
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I predict a fourth round of elections!!!

Luckily you Zionists control the banks so you can afford so many elections!
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I predict a fourth round of elections!!!
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That's not what Judaism teaches.  There is din rodef, and about someone trying to kill, the Talmud says rise up and kill that person first

Yes it is. Chaim's original argument described a situation where Amir was severely pressured to commit homicide. His new argument about the pursuer is problematic for the reasons I stated above.   
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My comment was a question, and a very coherent one.  "Huh?" means I don't understand what you just wrote.

You cited him as "guilty in the former and not guilty in the latter"  according to your sources.  I'm asking you to explain this comment and cite your sources or basis on it because I didn't understand what you meant by the formulation you used.   No need to get butthurt.

It means that a person who was severely pressured to commit homicide, like Amir according to Chaim, is guilty for murder in the eyes of Heaven, but a court of law does not have permission to punish him. 
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בס''ד

Yitzchak Rabin yimach shmo vezichro was a mass murderer of Jews. He murdered 16 Jewish heroes on the Altalena in 1948 in cold blood. Rabin as Prime Minister murdered hundreds of Jews with his Oslo policies. Furthermore, his treasonous policies endangered Israel's very survival.

Authentic Torah Judaism is not like Christianity or modern Western humanism. Judaism has din rodef (the law regarding a pursuer of Jewish blood).

Chaim, your video said that Yigal Amir assassinated Rabin because a government agent incited and convinced him to do so. You didn't mention the laws of a pursuer.

I know that Judaism has the laws of a pursuer. The problem with that argument is that anyone can accuse anybody of being a pursuer. If leftist Jews believed that Rabbi Kahane's rhetoric endangered Jewish lives, would that mean that Rav Kahane is a pursuer, too?   
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