JTF Listen to me please.

[Kiwi]

Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.

Oh so nicely put 

[Dr. Dan]

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may  not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").

One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.

JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.

You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..

What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks?  Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim?  How can we judge this?  There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph?  Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us.  Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us.  But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?

I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking?  I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us?  Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid?  Or am I just losing my mind?  HELP ME!!!!  

[genteelgentile]

  There may be so called moderate Muslims out there, but we, at the very least, must keep a watchful eye on them.  Suspicion as a matter of course.  They won't like it of course, but tough.  This is OUR SURVIVAL.  Muslims must be made to feel uncomfortable.

[Lubab]

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may  not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").

One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.

JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.

You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..

What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks?  Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim?  How can we judge this?  There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph?  Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us.  Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us.  But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?

I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking?  I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us?  Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid?  Or am I just losing my mind?  HELP ME!!!!   

It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.

[Dr. Dan]

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may  not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").

One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.

JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.

You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..

What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks?  Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim?  How can we judge this?  There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph?  Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us.  Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us.  But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?

I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking?  I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us?  Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid?  Or am I just losing my mind?  HELP ME!!!!   

It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.

Lubab, help me...I know there is a Talmudic law that you can say this about an individual person...can you paraphrase for me about a nation or a whole community and where it comes from in the Torah?  Thank you.

[newman]

Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.

The stuff about "9 year olds being different or more mature" back then is ludicrous!

It is the opposite. Our own historical records show that girls are maturing earlier today than just 3 generations ago. A 15 year old girl at the turn of last century would resemble an 11 or 12 year old of today. If anything, a 9 year old of mo' the rapist's day would have had the sexual developement of a six year old.

[Mstislav]

שלום,
Chaim, Mohammad destroyed many tribes, one of them was Quriesh, Mohammad also destroyed Christian tribes and non-Muslim tribes as a way to expend his little empire. The Jews, according to the Tanach, as you know, destroyed 7 whole people, and to destroy any man/woman that is decent of them is one of the 613 commends.

Islam does not wish to destroy or convert all non-Muslim, unless they are idolaters (Christians considered to be idolaters but the Muslims are commended not to destroy them). If Islam wish to destroy/convert Non-Muslims how come he didn't destroyed or convert Mizrhi Jews and Christian who lived and lives in Muslim countries for 1300 years ?

Dhimmitude, a second class status offered to Jews & Christians who did not accept islam and who did not fight to defend themselves from islamic aggression. They could practise their religion only with severe restrictions. (See 'pact of umar') Dhimmis pay a tax called jizya in a humiliating, degrading way. Their everyday lives are hard and are in constant danger as being a dhimmi does not exempt one from being a victim of islamic tyranny. Sometimes life was too hard for dhimmis and some of them converted to islam for a better life. The jizya was a source of income for the islamic state. When Jews were commanded to destroy entire peoples by HaShem, those people attacked Jews for no reason and were an evil lot. muslims attack and destroy everything not islamic.

[Dexter]

I know that..
Christians were much evil in that era, but I don't think Christianety is evil as a result (but there are some verses I don't actually like, I have to admit)

[Srbin]

uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,

[Dr. Dan]

uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,

I think you are wrong

[Kiwi]

If you voice an opinion of any kind it will upset someone, I don't think its too much of a big deal. World hasn't stopped turning, life goes on.

[HiWarp]

uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,

But many times quantity is not as important as quality.  If you sacrifice your ideals in order to appeal to a larger mass of people, you weaken the organization and, inevitably, the cause you are fighting for.

I'd rather have 300 Spartans than 10,000 Immortals. 

[Lubab]

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may  not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").

One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.

JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.

You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..

What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks?  Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim?  How can we judge this?  There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph?  Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us.  Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us.  But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?

I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking?  I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us?  Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid?  Or am I just losing my mind?  HELP ME!!!!   

It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.

Lubab, help me...I know there is a Talmudic law that you can say this about an individual person...can you paraphrase for me about a nation or a whole community and where it comes from in the Torah?  Thank you.

Ask Chaim that. He is very well versed in the topic of when a nation becomes an enemy nation and how the Torah deals with it.