JTF Listen to me please.

[judeanoncapta]

Sarah, I would be happy to debate Islam with you at any time and at any place.

But let me start with one thing that you may not be aware of.

In order for you to be a Muslim, you have to beleive that G-d gave divine revelation to Muhammad WHILE HE WAS ENGAGED IN SEX WITH A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muhammad says this in the Hadith.

I can furnish the quotes as soon as you think whether or not YOU beleive that G-d appears to his prophets WHILE THEY ARE HAVING SEX WITH LITTLE CHILDREN.

Sarah, you seem like a smart girl.

Do you actually beleive that?

[newman]

Lubab muslims don't believe they are stealing them because the Quran is from the same G-d as was the Torah and thus the messages cannot change. They believe that after the children of Israel were punished and excessively questioned, G-d was angry with them and so sent down the next message, the bible-new testament-, but that was altered and so the final message was sent down to mankind and that was the Quran.

Sarah,

I ask again.....

Where is the evidence that Jews perverted Torah. If this was true, archeologists would have found old Torah scrolls with muSSlim texts in them but they DON'T exist.Every Torah scroll they unearth all over the east is allways exactly as it is today.

Secondly, do you really think that the Jews (who have proved their status as a light unto the world ) are wrong but an illiterate rapist and a tribe of smelly camel jockies are right? C'mon!

[Daniel]

There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!

Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.

Dexter, once again, you hit the nail right on the head. If there are moderate Jews and Jews that do not adhere to everything in the religion, then isn't it also reasonable to assume that the same thing may exist with muslims? I think we should differentiate between Islam and Muslims. We should fear Islam. But not all Muslims necessarily practice Islam to such an absolute and radical extreme. Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes? For me personally, only the latter applies.

Unlike in Judaism where being Jewish is something you get from birth, in Islam and most every other religion I know of it is based on your beliefs. So if someone doesn't believe in the tenents of Islam as stated in the Koran they are not a Muslim by any definition. They might call themselves a Muslim, but that is a lie.

But at the end of the day even these so called moderate Muslims will side with Al Queda long before they side with Israel and the Jews making them a serious cause for concern as well.

[Lubab]

It isn't relevant to just that particular time, of course not but it was sent down as a message at the time for that certain problem, as well as being a message for muslims of all eras to follow. Many verses were sent as warnings during Muhammads time but it doesn't mean the message does not still apply.
Islam does not translate into the religion of piece, it means to surrender, to the will of G-d. Though through its teachings things should be carried out peacefully.
Here you are saying "against the defenses" when what the explanation said spoke of the Jews and Christians who were trying to create set-ups to catch Muhammad out. They weren't defending themselves at this point according to this view.

There were hadiths in that article, that I posted which I got from wikipedia, i'll find some other things.


Lubab muslims don't believe they are stealing them because the Quran is from the same G-d as was the Torah and thus the messages cannot change. They believe that after the children of Israel were punished and excessively questioned, G-d was angry with them and so sent down the next message, the bible-new testament-, but that was altered and so the final message was sent down to mankind and that was the Quran.

I honestly have no idea what you just said means. There appear to be some missing thoughts.
You can copy-paste from as many websites as you want but when Muhammed tried to convert the Jews the Bible says that is evil. When Muhammed tried to kill the Jews the Bible says that is evil too. Those are the rules G-d laid down and they don't change.

G-d sends down messages all the time, but the Koran was not such a message. The Koran was a tool Mohammed used to try to wipe out Jews and Judaism just like all the other enemies of the Jewish people before him and after him.

How do we know this? Becaue G-d said in the Bible that if someone comes along and tries to change one bit of what the Torah said he is a false prophet and must be killed. Mohammed not only tried to change a part of the Torah but fought against EVERY SINGLE THING IT STANDS FOR. He took the apple of G-d's eye and tried to destroy them and make his own followers into the chosen ones. There can be no greater evil.

Detox from your Muslim teachers. Take a month and just read the Bible yourself and see then later come back to see how everything there has been perverted, yes perverted by the Koran.

[newman]

There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!

Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.

Dexter, once again, you hit the nail right on the head. If there are moderate Jews and Jews that do not adhere to everything in the religion, then isn't it also reasonable to assume that the same thing may exist with muslims? I think we should differentiate between Islam and Muslims. We should fear Islam. But not all Muslims necessarily practice Islam to such an absolute and radical extreme. Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes? For me personally, only the latter applies.

Again Daniel you fail to compare apples with apples and fall into that moral equivallence trap.

Judaism is good, not evil. Someone who doesn't practice it 100% is simply falling short of an ideal. They're not bad.

Islam is an evil, nazi doctrine of mass-murder and world domination. Someone who follows half of it is still a monster.

[The Shadow]

Dexter, Muslims hate Jews, don't kid yourself.  If it makes you feel better you can say they don't.

[Adam04]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

[Ulli]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers   We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

This is true and a very good empirical evidence.

[newman]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

[Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer]

Islam is an evil religion. All Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims. The Koran commands them to do so. There are no buts about it. If you can't see the evils of Islam, despite everything this movement has done to expose it, then, what can I tell you? You can read the Koran for yourself, just use the link on the homepage. If you still have any doubt in your mind as to the undoubtedly evil of the religion, then, it's just pure ignorance on your part.

How can one read the Koran and see the actions of Muslim Nazis and not be able to draw a connection and classify Islam and its followers as evil?

People need to stop being so immature and accept the facts. Islam is evil, like it or not. It's not an opinion. You can't say it's a nice day outside, when there's a thunderstorm. It's just not true.

The inability for some people of this movement to not realize that Islam is evil is very disturbing. These people need to wake up. Perhaps these people have not read the Koran or seen the particular JTF videos in which it is discussed. If these people haven't, DO SO IMMEDIATELY!

[Adam04]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view.  I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.

[Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view.  I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.

Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.

[Adam04]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view.  I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.

Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.

I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs.  All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.

[newman]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view.  I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.

Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.

I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs.  All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.

Respect is not automatic. It must be earned. If your teachers are liberals they have proved to be half-witted imbeciles. You should give them no more respect than you would give to retards in a mongoloid home.

[Adam04]

Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes

Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers  We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them.  Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lubab I like your posts!

Adam,

Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.

Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.

Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view.  I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.

Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.

I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs.  All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.

Respect is not automatic. It must be earned. If your teachers are liberals they have proved to be half-witted imbeciles. You should give them no more respect than you would give to retards in a mongoloid home.

Oh Im allowed to tell them whats on my mind, I just cant talk to them  using words they deserve
Tell my mom cause sometimes I do have to control my language

[Dr. Dan]

I guess I'm answering to this thread a little late..but better late than never...

My response will be to no surprise to people here who know me...I come along the line of agreeing with the original poster and Dexter (from what I read so far)...

Here are my dilemas:

1. Sometimes a movement like JTF needs express "radical" and "extreme" positions on certain things and be stubborn about it in order to prevent it from becoming water down and ineffective in the future. Since it is a rogue movement and not a popular political movement, it has to be what it has to be, I guess.  However, the majority of decent educated people get turned off by extreme and radical positions and absolutist point of views, such as, "ALL Muslims are evil" or "ALL so-in-so's are inferior."  I mean sure, i know this movement hates political correctness. However, political correctness has also had positive influences.  Unfortunately today it has gone way too far.  Anyway, my point is that JTF as a movement, if it wants to be reasonable and popular needs to find a happy medium of certain radical and absolutist opinions.

2. when i first joined this forum, I was very uncomfortable because of what seemed absolutist in Chaim's words on Blacks and homosexuals and other types of people.  However, after asking him to clarify such matters, he has continually done so in every video...that it isn't the race..it's the behavior and culture which is bad...We have even, furthermore, clarified that certain races and nationalities if the majority are evil, doesn't mean that all are evil and in those cases, we have to be more vigilant until the person proves themself righteous...the same thing would be the opposite... If there was a righteous nationality, we could assume that person was righteous until he proved himself evil.  And so with this, I know I can at least trust Chaim on these matters.  He, too, has decided to be politically correct to a certain extent and that's why i'm still here and alomst as a whistle blower to anyone who begins to race bait...This is a movement which looks for righteous people irregardless of race, religion, creed, etc. etc etc etc.

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

4. But if I feel not ALL muslims are evil, does that mean i would trust one with my life even if it were an acquaintence? No...not in a million years..not after 9/11...  Does that mean I'm going to get into a political or religious discussion everytime i see one?  No, why should I?  It solves nothing to scream and yell and get all heated on something...I've learned that nobody likes a preacher..or the crazy man on the street with a microphone who raves and rants in the open city...It's retarded.  JTF is a tiny organization. If it is to become popular and filled with reasonable, intellectual, passionate, laid back people, it should lighten up every once in awhile and make rational opinions..and so should the forum members who are far to the right.

5. Does JTF want laid back people? In its early stage, it is better to have passionate people who will act and not be laid back...but as it grows larger and makes it out to the millions out there watching Fox news, it may be necessary to moderate itself without affecting the main platform: Make evil unpopular and righteousness very popular.  Bless Israel and the Righteous.  Bless Hashem.

[Electra]

Srbin(e),

Its not about Muslims as people. Its about their hateful ideology which they are greately committed to. They call Jews pigs and apes. They cannot applaud their prophet who himself, converted, murdered and expelled Jews and other non-Muslims who made Arabian Peninsula their home for 2500 years before Muhammad showed up.

Muhammad was a murderer, he was a rapist and all other things Ali Sina has accused him of. It is not about Muslims praying to Allah or believing in Allah - great, God is God, call him what you will, it is about following Muhammad, believing Muhammad and in some cases following his example.

Its like saying: 'I am a Hitler follower, and it is only those fundamentalist Hitler followers which kill Jews. Moderate Hitler followers don't kill Jews''.

[Kiwi]

Note: Don't get this message wrong.


Listen up dear JTFer's.

I got to say that we are getting to far with insulting muslims in PUBLIC. If a muslims smells like we saw one thread about it, you don't need to show it here. Hold it for yourself. It gives us just bad reputation. After all islam is the biggest relgion in the world right now, and they have many supporters. JTF isn't trying to insult everyone right? Just nazis, terrorists and those crappies. I know that many of you us has muslim friends, and the matter of fact, me too. He is not a terrorist or any kind of an "evil" muslim. Just a human as we. And about my friends jews. All muslims don't hate jews right? (Don't know that one, explain someone.) There was just a nazicroat that made a video about JTF in a negative way (can't remember where to find the video), and there are people out there that listens too him because everything seems so logical into their eyes. It's just because they maybe have a muslim friend, and the thoughts in those peoples heads are: JTF is bad, my best friend is a muslim and they hate all muslims.

Or in some other ways. So... is it really neccassery to share thoughts in public?. It's just my opinion about this. After all, the majority of human kind believes in propaganda (not JTF ).

JTFer's, what about a change?

Theres no such thing as a good muslim, and none should be toleratered at all and if this forum even goes down, the brainless road of accepting any part of this religion or thought process it is lost and so are Jews.

Only good muslim is a dead one.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Only good muslim is a dead one.

So Western anti-Semite are even worse. Even dead ones are evil. If you kill a Muslim terrorist, he would, in the worst of cases become a "martyr". But if you kill an Inquisitor, he may become a "Saint".

[Kiwi]

Only good muslim is a dead one.

So Western anti-Semite are even worse. Even dead ones are evil. If you kill a Muslim terrorist, he would, in the worst of cases become a "martyr". But if you kill an Inquisitor, he may become a "Saint".

I don't care dead muslim is camel spider food, and they then are not risk to Jews or the Western world again.

They kill everything, rape women, animals and babies, they are scum. Non human.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...You can't say it's a nice day outside, when there's a thunderstorm. It's just not true..."

I quote Rabbi Meir Kahane:

"A Jew is a person who refuses to carry an umbrella until he's already caught pneumonia."

I've often wondered if this Jewish trait was not bestowed upon us by Ha'Shem as part of his Curse upon us for abandoning Torah.

Other than here on the forum, I know of only 2 Jews who will "see" the truth and understand what is going on.

This includes an extended family as well as an extended community. The rest "refuse to believe it"..."refuse to listen to it"..."want to know where in the world you heard those lies".

All people practice "denial" to some degree, but it would seem that only the Jew carries a genetic predisposition for refusing to believe that anyone could possibly wish him harm.

[Barnes]

From what I understand the Qur'an makes no distinction between 'unbelievers' and 'evil-doers.' They are used interchangeably and refer to the same group of people.

"Hast thou seen him who considers the religion false? That fellow is the one who repulses the orphan."

"Woe on that Day to those who count it false! Did We not destroy those of former times? Then We shall cause those of later times to follow them, for thus We deal with sinners."

[Lubab]

Sarah needs to understand that has she lived at the time of Mohamed, if she were to be righteous according to the Torah she would be obliged to fight alongside the Jews and try to kill Mohamed Y"sv. She would have to be among those the Koran calls the "hypocrites".
She said some Jews were trying to trick and take down Mohamed as if it was a bad thing.  If only they had succeeded how many lives would have been spared.

In Muslims schools it seems they make Mohamed out to be some prince charming do-gooder. What lies innocent people like Sarah are being fed!

[kellymaureen]

Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.

[Lubab]

3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter.  Same thing with homosexuals.  I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc..  But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like.  Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want.  So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil. 

Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may  not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").

One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.

JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.