Caesar's Messiah

[Uziyahu]

"Caesar's Messiah", by Joseph Atwill, will make you darn angry.

You thought the Holocaust was bad?  Read "Caesar's Messiah" to see how Vespasian became "the Heavenly Father" and his son, Titus, "the Son (of G-d)" in the Christian scriptures.

Atwill's assertions make sense, and demonstrate how the Flavian family sought to finish off the destruction of the Jewish people by destroying their religion by means of their forged Christian myth.

I've been studying the "New Testament" seriously since 1989, and to be quite frank, I know few people who understand it as well as I do.  About a year ago I started reading Flavius Josephus' "The Wars of the Jews" and "The Antiquities of the Jews".

Atwill demonstrates how the Christian scriptures were written as a companion to Flavius Josephus' "The Wars of the Jews".  Only by reading the "scripture" alongside the "history", intertextually, does the antisemitic and genocidal prank the Romans played on the Jewish people (and the many gentiles who have embraced the Christian myth) become CLEARLY apparent.

[yeshuadisciple]

Interesting, but if the Roman Emperors concocted Christianity, why did they murder as many as 6 million Christians over 3 centuries because they were a danger to Rome's authority.  Christians refused to say Caesar is Lord and toss some incense into a flame; they would then be executed; the only Lord they knew was God and his Son Yeshua.  Seems like the really screwed up if they wanted their Christian "myth" to promote Emperor worship.  Most of the early adherents of Christianity were Jews so that is really a stretch, worshiping anyone but God would be anathema to them.   This author will end up on the dust bin of history along with the many, many enemies of Christianity and Christianity will continue to march on. 

1Why are (A)the nations in an uproar
         And the peoples (B)devising a vain thing?
      2The (C)kings of the earth take their stand
         And the rulers take counsel together
         (D)Against the LORD and against His [a](E)Anointed, saying,
      3"Let us (F)tear their fetters apart
         And cast away their cords from us!"
      4He who sits in the heavens (G)laughs,
         The Lord (H)scoffs at them.
      5Then He will speak to them in His (I)anger
         And (J)terrify them in His fury, saying,
      6"But as for Me, I have installed (K)My King
         Upon Zion, (L)My holy mountain."
      7"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
         He said to Me, 'You are (M)My Son,
         Today I have begotten You.
      8'Ask of Me, and (N)I will surely give (O)the nations as Your inheritance,
         And the very (P)ends of the earth as Your possession.
      9'You shall [c](Q)break them with a rod of iron,
         You shall (R)shatter them like earthenware.'"
      10Now therefore, O kings, (S)show discernment;
         Take warning, O [d]judges of the earth.
      11Worship the LORD with (T)reverence
         And rejoice with (U)trembling.
      12Do homage to (V)the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
         For (W)His wrath may [e]soon be kindled
         How blessed are all who (X)take refuge in Him!

It seems that the idea of the Son of God existed back in 1000 BC.  David certainly never ruled to the very ends of the earth. 

[Christian Zionist]

Just because New Testament events are mentioned in secular history it does not mean the New Testament was written to compliment them.



For example:

2 Kings 2:11 And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Gen. 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away

There are numerous incidents similar to Elijah and Enoch ascending to heaven are mentioned in the Hindu scriptures (Hindu deities ascending to heaven in fiery chariots).
That does not mean the Tanak writers borrowed materials from Eastern religions.

Noah's flood incident is also reported in various pagen documents.  Does it make the Torah account of Noah's flood a pagan concept?

There are various events mentioned in the Tanak which are also found in different secular sources and even in pagan scriptures.  Another example is the code of Hammurabi, the Amortie King. 

Christians never discredit the Tanak just because some Tanak events are also mentioned in pagan documents.

[Raulmarrio2000]

I honestly don't believe the NT was forged by pagan Romans. But I had always believed that the Romans who abolished Semicha were pagan. Yesterday I learned that they had already converted to Christianity. Just another attack to Judaism in Christian history. The lack of Semicha is the cause there is still no recognised Sanhedrim. I hope Rambam's opinion is right and the New Sanhedrin can work and save Israel.

[Christian Zionist]

The term New Testament / New Covenant itself was borrowed from the Tanak - Jeremiah 31:31.

I would not slander the writers of the Talmud just because I disagree with the message of the Talmud.

[Ultra Requete]

We lived throu Ron Brown revelations; we'll live by this.  

[yeshuadisciple]

I honestly don't believe the NT was forged by pagan Romans. But I had always believed that the Romans who abolished Semicha were pagan. Yesterday I learned that they had already converted to Christianity. Just another attack to Judaism in Christian history. The lack of Semicha is the cause there is still no recognised Sanhedrim. I hope Rambam's opinion is right and the New Sanhedrin can work and save Israel.

There is definitely a Roman influence later in Christianity when Christianity became the official religion of the empire in the 4th Century.  The Romans had borrowed heavily from the Babylonian religious system and introduced all kinds of pagan rights into Christianity.  This does not mean they invented it, they merely corrupted it later.  Christmas and Easter are originally pagan holidays.  Christmas to celebrate the Winter Solstice and the coming of longer days and renewal.  Easter honours the fertility goddess Ishtar.  Symbolized by easter eggs and rabbits.  The origin of the Babylonian system is interesting and can be traced back to Nimrod and his Wife.

Young's concordance states that the word "Ashtareth" means "a wife" and Hislop showed that Ashtareth is a version of the Babylonish goddess Astarte, which is just another name for Semiramis the wife of Nimrod. The word Ashtareth lit. means "the woman that made the encompassing wall" and ancient history records that it was Semiramis who first built the walls of Babylon. Thus the worship of Baal and Ashtareth, that Israel fell prey to, is none other than the worship of the sun-god Nimrod and his wife Semiramis.

[Raulmarrio2000]

The term New Testament / New Covenant itself was borrowed from the Tanach - Jeremiah 31:31.

I would not slander the writers of the Talmud just because I disagree with the message of the Talmud.

The New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah has nothing to do with the Christian NT. To say there is an OT and a NT us part of the Replacement Theology.

[yeshuadisciple]

The term New Testament / New Covenant itself was borrowed from the Tanach - Jeremiah 31:31.

I would not slander the writers of the Talmud just because I disagree with the message of the Talmud.

The New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah has nothing to do with the Christian NT. To say there is an OT and a NT us part of the Replacement Theology.

No it isn't.  The New Testament upholds God's eternal covenant with the nation of Israel; Paul himself is emphatic that God has not cast away the Israelites.  Replacement theologians are exactly opposite, they take the covenant from the Tanach for themselves and take all the blessing for Israel and place them on the Church because they teach that God reneged on his eternal covenant with Israel due to their disobedience.  Dispensationalists recognize the difference between covenants. 

[Ultra Requete]

The Christamas is indeed pagan in origin it was a day when Sol Invictus was born, but easter is modeled after jewish passover feast and its about the death and resurection of the Christ. you can not find more christian festival.   

[yeshuadisciple]

The Christamas is indeed pagan in origin it was a day when Sol Invictus was born, but easter is modeled after jewish passover feast and its about the death and resurection of the Christ. you can not find more christian festival.   

C
I agree that the timing of Easter is correct and it pays tribute to the death and resurrection but it was also to satisfy pagans who were forced into Christianity with the whole fertility imagery.  Passover would serve well for Christians as it involved a sacrificial lamb and blood sacrifice to make the death angel pass over a household with blood on its doorposts.  The imagery is very powerfully linked to the death of Christ and conquest of death. 

[yeshuadisciple]

I honestly don't believe the NT was forged by pagan Romans. But I had always believed that the Romans who abolished Semicha were pagan. Yesterday I learned that they had already converted to Christianity. Just another attack to Judaism in Christian history. The lack of Semicha is the cause there is still no recognised Sanhedrim. I hope Rambam's opinion is right and the New Sanhedrin can work and save Israel.

There is definitely a Roman influence later in Christianity when Christianity became the official religion of the empire in the 4th Century.  The Romans had borrowed heavily from the Babylonian religious system and introduced all kinds of pagan rights into Christianity.  This does not mean they invented it, they merely corrupted it later.  Christmas and Easter are originally pagan holidays.  Christmas to celebrate the Winter Solstice and the coming of longer days and renewal.  Easter honours the fertility goddess Ishtar.  Symbolized by easter eggs and rabbits.  The origin of the Babylonian system is interesting and can be traced back to Nimrod and his Wife.

Young's concordance states that the word "Ashtareth" means "a wife" and Hislop showed that Ashtareth is a version of the Babylonish goddess Astarte, which is just another name for Semiramis the wife of Nimrod. The word Ashtareth lit. means "the woman that made the encompassing wall" and ancient history records that it was Semiramis who first built the walls of Babylon. Thus the worship of Baal and Ashtareth, that Israel fell prey to, is none other than the worship of the sun-G-d Nimrod and his wife Semiramis.

Nimrod is not a Sun g-d. He was a real person in The Torah and he was an evil man. He tried to kill Abraham by throwing him into a furnace.

I assume that most pagan pantheons stem from the Babylonian religious system created by Nimrod.  Yes he was a real person, but I don't think it's that out of the question that he was later deified along with his wife.  As for him trying to throw Abraham into a furnace, is that Jewish tradition?  That's not in the Bible and sounds like Nebuchadnezzar throwing Daniel's 3 friends into the fiery furnace.