Author Topic: Julia Gorin Sent Me Something Else!  (Read 2719 times)

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Offline Lisa

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Julia Gorin Sent Me Something Else!
« on: November 16, 2007, 10:37:59 AM »
Here's her note to me:

Lisa,

This is one other relevant piece you should read that goes to the point of your question. The one thing he gets wrong is where he says “the Serbs have obviously committed many atrocities in Bosnia”. This was before the truth came out that they didn’t commit any more in Bosnia than were committed against them in Bosnia. And a majority of “atrocities” attributed to Serbs in Bosnia are fabrications and distortions, as we now know. (Well, very few of us do.) But he’s saying that no Israeli should concern himself too much about the welfare of Croatians and Muslims, and gives some quick history to explain.

No need to reply.

Best,

Julia

She then included an article from the Jerusalem Post:

They Shared Our Fate

by Mr. Joseph Lapid,
a columnist and editorial writer for "Ma'ariv"a leading Hebrew daily.

Published in: The Jerusalem Post, February 4, 1994.

In his article "Astonishing Argument" (TheJerusalem Post, January 23), Prof. Igor Primorac accuses me of takingremorselessly pro-Serbian stand in the present Yugoslav conflict. He states myposition as follows: we Jews have a clear and irrevocable historical obligationto the Serbs, to support them and give them all the sympathy we can - "nomatter what they might do".

As Jews, we do indeed have a historical obligation to theSerbs, though we may not support everything they do. In fact, we may notsupport many things they do, but will feel obliged to stand by them. just asmany diaspora Jews who disagree with Israeli policies....

It is true, as Primorac states, that there were Serbs whocollaborated with the Nazis in World War II, just as there were Croatian andBosnians who fought bravely against Hitler. But Primorac also knows that theSerbs are one of the very few philosemitic people in Europe; that a greatmajority of them tried to help "their" Jews during the Nazioccupation and that hundreds of thousands of Serbs were slaughtered, togetherwith 30,000 Jews, by Croatian Ustashi.

He also knows that Bosnian Moslems enlisted, voluntarily,in the infamous Hanjar SS division, whose flag was personally consecrated bythe Mufti of Jerusalem. In fact, they guarded the trains which transportedtheir Jewish neighbours from Sarajevo to Auschwitz.

Does this justify the wholesale slaughter of thegrandchildren of those who might have perpetrated such gruesome acts? asksPrimorac. Of course it doesn't. Nothing justifies the slaughter of innocentcivilians. But as Primorac well knows, the present Croat leadershipdeliberately cultivates the spirit of the Nazi head of the independent Croatstate, Ante Pavelic.

The state symbols of present day Croatia are identical tothe emblems of Nazi Croatia, as is its currency, the kuna. Memorials topartisans who fought the Nazis are being razed, streets honoring martyrs of theNazi era are being renamed after people like Mile Budak, Minister of Religionand Education in the Ustashi government, who introduced racial laws in NaziCroatia.

And then there is, of course, the vituperative attackagainst the Jews in The Wasteland of History, a book written by Croatianpresident Franjo Tudjman and published in Zagreb in 1989. Most foreigners canread only the expurgated English export version of the book, But Prof. Primoracand I read the Serbo-Croat original, didn't we? and wasn't it President Tudjmanwho openly said, in an election address: "I'm happy that my wife isneither gypsy nor Jewish"? So it isn't only the shadows of the past.

As for Alija Izetbegovic, current president of the Bosnian Republic, his The Islamic Declaration - a program for the Islamization of the Moslem peoples is a tract of which Khomeini could have been proud. He distinguishes between good Jews and bad Jews, the latter being the Zionists,against whom every devout Moslem should fight to his last breath. His present"moderation" may bring him sympathies in the West, but can hardly mislead those who recognize a Moslem fundamentalist when they read one.

Apart from humanitarian considerations, why should any Israeli in his right mind support his cause? One should also state, if only in parenthesis, that while Serbs have obviously committed many atrocities in Bosnia, Croats and Moslems have also had their share in the slaughter.

The Yugoslav tragedy in the ironic outcome of Germany's first postwar diplomatic venture into the Balkans. In the late 1980s, Yugoslavia was on its way to becoming a confederation, with its central authority weakened but viable. It was then that the Germans, with a little help from Austria, decided to support the full independence of the two federal republics which were closest to them historically, culturally, religiously and economically: Croatia and Slovenia.

The Germans pulled along other Western nations, without whose support neither the Croats nor the Slovenes would have dared to sever their ties with Yugoslavia entirely. Suddenly, the balance between the Serbs and the smaller nations of old Yugoslavia was askew.

The Bosnians and Macedonians felt threatened by an overwhelming Serb majority within the remnants of Yugoslavia. Bosnia was never independent and has never had the attributes of a separate national entity. It was forced into independence by German interventionism, Austrian opportunism,Croatian nationalism and the fear of Serbian dominance.

The Bosnians didn't anticipate the violent reaction of the Serbs. They should have known better; they should have taken into account the collective memory of horrors the Serbs suffered at the hands of Croats and Moslems in Nazi times.

We Jews identify with people who shared our fate. We understand them when they say "never again," and act accordingly. We appreciate their motivations and identify with their fears, without condoning their misdeeds.

Offline Husar

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Re: Julia Gorin Sent Me Something Else!
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 01:09:39 PM »
"The Bosnians didn't anticipate the violent reaction of the Serbs. They should have known better; they should have taken into account the collective memory of horrors the Serbs suffered at the hands of Croats and Moslems in Nazi times.

We Jews identify with people who shared our fate. We understand them when they say "never again," and act accordingly. We appreciate their motivations and identify with their fears, without condoning their misdeeds."

Thank you, Golden Team (Lisa and Julia).

 :) :) :)
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

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