Author Topic: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)  (Read 15223 times)

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newman

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Sarah, it's time to be honest with yourself and us.

Nothing's easy. Life's tough enough, but for some it's tougher. I'm not talking money, bills, school or homework. I mean the other stuff some have to cope with.

The nice anglo-christian who grows to like the Jews discovers some things about his history, nation and community he has trouble accepting. Richard the Lion Heart, that great warrior king he admired as a boy turns out to be a scumbag who locked Jews in their synagogues and burnt them alive! The church where he was baptised and taken to by his parents each sunday used to put hot pokers in Jews' eyes. The man/god jesus he worshiped, that embodyment of absolute love and forgiveness, that living guarantee of everlasting life................false. Well, at least he's still got the father.....just not the son. As for the history, it was centuries ago. It's distant enough not to weigh too heavily. A bitter pill? Yes, but he copes.

The nice, post war German boy fares worse. He comes to the shocking realisation that his grandparents' generation (and sometimes his grandparents themselves) were/are monsters.He's painfully reminded every so often in old B&W newsreels. He's different to other boys in other countries. Patriotism and nationalism are taboo here. His countrymen are less nationalistic at the soccer than others. His countrymen are not allowed to be. The past is as unpleasant a subject with his elders as discussing the day's bowel motions. He learns that HIS country and HIS people are responsible for the most unspeakable crime in the history of man. He's rightly devastated. Unlike his anglo-saxon contemporary the crimes of his countrymen are not so distant. There are living members of his own family who took part! He can't dismiss it as ancient history. What does he do? He does what any normal human would. He attempts to deny....or rationalise..........or understate. Sometimes he does all three."Hitler only had 30% support". "The public didn't know about the camps"."Genocide was never the original intention"  ...............and so on. The problem is he has trouble convincing himself. He needs some reinforcement. So he tries to convince himself by convincing others. He runs the same justifications, denials and arguments by others in the hope that by convincing them, he'll convince himself. It doesn't work either. His peace will only come with painful honesty and acceptance of the awful truth. The bigger, more bitter pill must be swallowed. Some succeed. Most don't.

I know how it must be for you, Sarah. You're a lovely, kind, gentle girl without a mallicious or hateful bone in your body. You too have come to a shocking realisation about the culture and faith of your birth. And you've confronted it bravely. I know why you've recently tried returning to islam. You're trying to protect your sanity. It's the Morocco move, isn't it? To live there as a non-muslim, living a lie and a charade would be an unbearable torture. Confronting your family about it even worse (to you). I believe you've done the only thing that you (subconsciously) think you can do. You've tried to find something worthy in it. Something to convince you that the acts of violence, destruction, misogyny and hate that you see 24/7 in every paper and on every TV are somehow not a part of it. That you can find a legitimate and worthy faith and way of life without having to leave islam and split with your family and home. Conflict avoidance. It's understandable, Sarah. Anyone in your situation would do the same. The truth is , Sarah..............it's simply denial.

I know you don't really believe the excuses, explainations and taqqiya of your teachers and Imams anymore than I do. It would be nice if it was so. To write off the terror, rape, flogging of rape victims and sharia mutilations as some sort of abberation carried out by a misguided minority would be so much easier. If only that was the case how much easier would your life be? Imagine the peace of mind if it was so. I know you've been desperately trying to convince yourself it is so by using the JTF forum as a sounding board. It's OK. It's a natural thing to try and do. But as much as you want to believe what they tell you, the facts and your own common sense won't allow it. The floggings, executions, mutilations and abuse of women are ordered by islamic courts, not street gangs. Those courts are presided over by senior islamic schollars, not peasants. The terror, murders and rapes are given ascent by Imams, not illiterate tribesmen. When someone asks the question."where is the non-radical majority in islam opposing the radical minority?" there is still no answer. You know this inconvenient truth. That's the source of your conflict. It's no wonder you want to walk into a deep forest and just disappear. I would too if I were in your shoes.

Now Sarah............................Please tell me honestly if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong ....where and how. I don't mean in religion. I mean about you. I can give you a link to sites containing the truth about islam but I don't think that's neccessary. You already know deep down despite the pain and conflict this knowledge causes you. Just tell me.

Your friend

Andrew.

Offline Yisrael

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2007, 09:44:15 PM »
My guess is that this topic doesn't need to be pinned to remain on page 1 for a few weeks.  ;)

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newman

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2007, 09:48:19 PM »
I e-mailed this a few days ago. I've received no answer from her. We all need an answer. I love this girl like a daughter but I need to know if (G-d forbid) she's really gone over to the 'dark side'.

I'm sick with worry.

Please let's all wait for an answer before we attack this girl. I fear she may simply be conflicted for the reasons outlined in the letter but her recent posts worry me.

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2007, 09:51:26 PM »
I e-mailed this a few days ago. I've received no answer from her. We all need an answer. I love this girl like a daughter but I need to know if (G-d forbid) she's really gone over to the 'dark side'.

I'm sick with worry.

Please let's all wait for an answer before we attack this girl. I fear she may simply be conflicted for the reasons outlined in the letter but her recent posts worry me.

What do you mean by 'dark side'? That she's a radical muslim jihadist? Nah. She's probably gone full circle and is now just as naive as she was when she joined. Remember, she was only 8 years old when 9/11 happened. You can't expect this little girl, who happens to be quite bright, to fully grasp what's going on in this world.

This gets worse when we have people needlessly attacking her, and they know who they are. They are partially responsible for this.

Offline Lubab

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 09:55:23 PM »
I e-mailed this a few days ago. I've received no answer from her. We all need an answer. I love this girl like a daughter but I need to know if (G-d forbid) she's really gone over to the 'dark side'.

I'm sick with worry.

Please let's all wait for an answer before we attack this girl. I fear she may simply be conflicted for the reasons outlined in the letter but her recent posts worry me.

I hope you're right.
I thought like you did Newman, but I'm tending to believe that there is something a bit more sinister going on than conflict avoidance. Why would she continue to come on and get slammed. It's almost as if she's heard nothing we've said the past year and she thinks we will fall for this propoganda. The real Sarah was not that dumb.
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Kiwi

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2007, 10:03:15 PM »
Wow ok had no idea about the email she has been posting like normal. Strange.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2007, 10:07:04 PM »
newman...beautifully written...

I also went through a point going round and round, but I was a little older and in college...I was pro peace then I hated arabs..and then pro peace and then saw jtf for the first time and started hating arabs and even some blacks...then went back to pro peace until the Lebanon war and came across Kahane's prediction on CSPAN (a nice hour long video). Then I found Chaim again and I'm still here making up my own mind...Agreeing and disagreeing with what makes most sense to me..and with respect to Chaim's point of views when different from mine.

But my shoes are much easier to wear than Sarah's..there is a lot more at stake for her and, Newman, you versed that beautifully.  And we can all agree she is but only 15 years old so whatever she chooses today, if it is to go back to her origin, that she will never forget us and when she is a little older and wiser, return again when she really knows...

Otherwise, there is no need to wander Sinai for 40 years, Sarah.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline cjd

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2007, 10:09:28 PM »
I thought I saw posts by her a short time ago?
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline judeanoncapta

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2007, 10:09:44 PM »
I think that Sarah is great and I know that she really doesn't beleive in Islam because she doesn't really answer back when I quote what the Hadith actually says.

Deep down, she knows that Islam is Satanic. She is probably afraid for her life. She lives in an Islamic family, community and now country.

Well, I hope that when she gets older she is actually able to leave the Satanic religion of Islam.

She is a sweet nice girl and i wish her well.
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Kiwi

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 10:11:18 PM »
Wow ok had no idea about the email she has been posting like normal. Strange.


But the abnormal posting he is talking about is her recent shift back to Nazi Islam.



I know my point was she was acting like this had never occured.

Offline Ehud

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 11:54:38 PM »
What a thoughtful and intelligent letter you wrote, newman! 

The fact that you are willing to get this involved (emotionally as well) for the sake of saving one good person from an evil religion is truly a testament to your good nature and righteousness.   

I hope Sarah can one day move past the stage of "conflict avoidance" and recognize reality for what it is, but she has many cards stacked against her that block her way towards accepting the truth and living within that truth. 
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline Ralph1

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2007, 12:27:36 AM »
Newman, you're kind-hearted for caring so much. Let's see if she has the decency of at least responding.

kellymaureen

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2007, 12:33:01 AM »
That was a very nice letter.  She is very lucky to have a friend like you, most people who leave that cult have to do it alone, and in some cases risk their lives and leave their entire family and everything they know behind.  I hope that she takes advantage of your wisdom and friendship and though it will likely be the hardest thing that she does in her life, leaves islam, it is no place for a young lady.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2007, 12:42:17 AM »
This was a beautiful letter, Newman--much nicer than anything I'd have written. I can barely refrain from attacking her some days. I wish I could believe that there is one sincere, misguided Muslim out there, but that's like saying there were sincere, misguided Nazis during WWII.

Anyway, let's see what she says--if anything.

Chaimfan

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2007, 12:44:28 AM »
This was a beautiful letter, Newman--much nicer than anything I'd have written. I can barely refrain from attacking her some days. I wish I could believe that there is one sincere, misguided Muslim out there, but that's like saying there were sincere, misguided Nazis during WWII.

Anyway, let's see what she says--if anything.

Chaimfan

If she says anything, it'll be taquiya (sp.).

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2007, 01:40:58 AM »
If she says anything, it'll be taquiya (sp.).
Glad to see you share my skepticism. I believe it's taqqiyah, btw.

Offline Ralph1

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2007, 01:50:31 AM »
I don't think Sarah is evil but I'd like an admin or mod to explain why Islam defending is tolerated for learning to debate purposes but Nazism isn't. Muhammad was as evil as Hitler. I think she should be banned.

newman

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2007, 01:56:16 AM »
I don't think Sarah is evil but I'd like an admin or mod to explain why Islam defending is tolerated for learning to debate purposes but Nazism isn't. Muhammad was as evil as Hitler. I think she should be banned.

Because she's a good kid who DOESN'T hate Jews or wish any harm to Israel. Plus she renounced iSSlam once. We owe her a bit of lattitude given her tender years and family circumstances.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 02:03:08 AM »
That was a very powerful letter Newman.  I think that the only way Sarah will accept the truth if we let her go out and try to find other "moderate muslims" and a "moderate muslim" mosque.  When she finally finds after much searching that they don't exist and there are really no "moderate muslims" but moderate muslims are just secular muslims who don't practice the koran then she'll finally see the truth.  Until then, she'll continue to believe that not all muslims want to kill Jews and Christians and not all muslims are evil.  Although I still don't get why the koran is not clear enough for her about this.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 02:04:51 AM by jdl4ever »
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Offline Muck DeFuslims

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 02:40:47 AM »
I don't think Sarah is evil but I'd like an admin or mod to explain why Islam defending is tolerated for learning to debate purposes but Nazism isn't. Muhammad was as evil as Hitler. I think she should be banned.

Because she's a good kid who DOESN'T hate Jews or wish any harm to Israel. Plus she renounced iSSlam once. We owe her a bit of lattitude given her tender years and family circumstances.

We don't owe Sarah or any filthy muslim ANYTHING.

I don't care how old she is.

I don't care about her family circumstances.

She renounced islam once ?

She can renounce it a million times for all I care.

As far as I'm concerned an insincere renouncement is totally worthless.

And if she's still defending islam or showing signs of reverting in her posts, then quite frankly, she's full of crap and still a mooozie at heart.

You can't be halfway pregnant or halfway ex-moooozie.

Never trusted her, never liked her. She's always set my moooodar off, even when operating in stealth mode.

Offline Baltimore

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2007, 02:59:46 AM »
Wow this thread is a complete waste of space. No way should this be a sticky.  What a waste of our times to worry about this.  JTF is in desperate need to have it's word spread throughout the Internet so it becomes a mass movement but I see a bunch of people here worrying about a person who may not even exist.

The chances of "Sarah" being a Muslim 15 year old girl are probably the same as "Sarah" being a fat 40-something year old pervert who gets his jollies from pretending to be a little Muslim girl on a Jewish forum. The Internet is filled with pervs and sickos and it would not shock me in the least if "Sarah" is one of them and that a bunch of you guys have wasted a lot of your time that you will never get back. Stop worrying about this BS and start planning how you will help spread the word about JTF!

newman

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2007, 03:01:24 AM »
Wow this thread is a complete waste of space. No way should this be a sticky.  What a waste of our times to worry about this.  JTF is in desperate need to have it's word spread throughout the Internet so it becomes a mass movement but I see a bunch of people here worrying about a person who may not even exist.

The chances of "Sarah" being a Muslim 15 year old girl are probably the same as "Sarah" being a fat 40-something year old pervert who gets his jollies from pretending to be a little Muslim girl on a Jewish forum. The Internet is filled with pervs and sickos and it would not shock me in the least if "Sarah" is one of them and that a bunch of you guys have wasted a lot of your time that you will never get back. Stop worrying about this BS and start planning how you will help spread the word about JTF!

She's real, trust me.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2007, 05:31:04 AM »
I have no idea how you can know that, but... if you say so.


Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2007, 05:46:52 AM »
There are Muslims who just pray, fast and keep their dietary laws. They probably do not read those violent verses of the Koran, or they may interpret that they are annulled by other verses. Some understand that Jihad is just a spiritual struggle against themselves and their earthly wishes.
Other Muslims support terorism but don't take it to practise, or at least would not kill their own children if they leave Islam.
Some other Muslims are very dangerous and would kill Sarah for coming here. We don't know what kind of Muslims are Sarah's parents.
I'd better stop storming her with remorses, lest she openly renounces and rejects Islam in public and be murdered by her family. She's nearly a child. When she grows up she'll decide by herself. I wouldn't like to be blamed by Hashem for her life.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 05:49:03 AM by Raulmarrio2000 »

newman

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Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2007, 10:10:02 AM »
She can PM me if it's a question of personal security.