Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Ultra Orthodox Jews Vs The Secular Israeli State
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 29, 2007, 08:31:21 PM ---Judea, I disagree about the Sefaradim and Askenazim thing. Personally I wouldnt like their to be an assimilation between myself with other grops (even within Judaism). I respect the different Jewish cultures and groups and wouldnt want anyone dictating to me how I should practice and live life outside my tradition and cultural background. This reminds me of the fact that for a long time Askenazim contolled many of the Yeshivas and their mentality and Halahot is passed on to the Sefaradim who attend.
Before you jump on me and say that this causes disunity, etc, you should know that each tribe of Israel lived in its own border, and the land was organized and devided into families where it ended up that you live closer to people who are more related to you, and have the same culture as you.
Im Bukharian Sefaradi and proud of it, and wouldnt like that identity to disappear.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, pretending that the country in the Galuth where your great grandfather or my grandfather used to live is the same as the Tribes of Israel does not make it so.
I'm Polish and Russian Ashkenazi and I would like both my Ashkenazi and your Sefardi identity to disappear so that we can be one nation again. Not a bunch of confused people each continuing to define themselves and Ashkenazi and Sefardi and opposed to our true identity. Yehudhi.
That is our only identity.
Yehudhi.
Give up the Galuth, Tzvi.
It's not good for you.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: C.F. on November 29, 2007, 02:13:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 28, 2007, 11:59:47 PM ---??? im guessing you haven't seen the video.(Ive seen the first). They are normal Haredim. In this case they did a lot of good- protesting the gay parade, and shutting down a cremetorium in Israel, good for them, we need more people like that (enforcing Judaism).
--- End quote ---
I don't think this is a lot of good. The faggots are not threatening Israel with annihilation, and as offensive as it is, neither is the cremation site. A Kahanist government would fight to save Israel right now and would deal with the fags later.
--- End quote ---
But this is what so many people don't understand, this is saving Israel! The Arabs would pose no threat, no threat whatsoever to the Jewish people if Jews weren't a threat to the Jewish people.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Odhahane is right, the problem is also that many only see the physical danger and not the deeper problems that are much greater then the problems with arabs. If people would realize russian non-jews in Israel for example caused and cause much more problems then the arabs. Things like prostitution, homosexuality, drugs and all the other gifts from the western world is destroying Jews and Israel a lot more then arabs with bombs.
Dexter:
--- Quote ---D) The Herem of Rabbenu Gershom was never accepted in Eretz Yisrael, therefore any Jew living there can take a second, third, or even a hundredth wife with no problem according to Halakha. Public knowledge of this would radically change the culture of Galuth Judaism and is therefore suppressed.
--- End quote ---
Intresting. I thought that the Yemenite Jews were the only Jews who didn't accepted that Herem about polygamy, could you provide a source ?
--- Quote ---E) The Hebrew spoken today whether modern, Sefardic, or Ashkenazic is full of errors. The true pronunciation is well know because Rav Saadya Gaon detailed it 1100 years ago. The fact that VERY few Jews follow the correct pronuncitation and instead feel the need to be loyal to whatever mistakes were common in the country of his great-grandfather's birth is a tragedy.
--- End quote ---
The Yemenite pronunciation is the most accurate and original one.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 25, 2007, 10:43:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 29, 2007, 08:31:21 PM ---Judea, I disagree about the Sefaradim and Askenazim thing. Personally I wouldnt like their to be an assimilation between myself with other grops (even within Judaism). I respect the different Jewish cultures and groups and wouldnt want anyone dictating to me how I should practice and live life outside my tradition and cultural background. This reminds me of the fact that for a long time Askenazim contolled many of the Yeshivas and their mentality and Halahot is passed on to the Sefaradim who attend.
Before you jump on me and say that this causes disunity, etc, you should know that each tribe of Israel lived in its own border, and the land was organized and devided into families where it ended up that you live closer to people who are more related to you, and have the same culture as you.
Im Bukharian Sefaradi and proud of it, and wouldnt like that identity to disappear.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, pretending that the country in the Galuth where your great grandfather or my grandfather used to live is the same as the Tribes of Israel does not make it so.
I'm Polish and Russian Ashkenazi and I would like both my Ashkenazi and your Sefaradi identity to disappear so that we can be one nation again. Not a bunch of confused people each continuing to define themselves and Ashkenazi and Sefaradi and opposed to our true identity. Yehudhi.
That is our only identity.
Yehudhi.
Give up the Galuth, Tzvi.
It's not good for you.
--- End quote ---
Our ashkenazi and Sefaradi traditions go way back, and include not just customs (which I have heard from rabbi bar hayyim, can drop off rain off a raincoat if moving). But they include pronounciation.
Suppose people trade in their ashkenazi and Sefaradi differences(customs and pronounciation i guess). We cannot trade them in for the original, before the split, since we do not have the original.
It would be wrong for ashkenazim and Sefaradim to trade their customs for Ashkefadi. It is no better than what they had before. It would probably be a confused inconsistent mishmash.
We should not trade our pronounciation for the "Modern hebrew" pronounciation. That is just east european secular zionists throwing away their heritage by adopting a largely Sefaradi pronounciation, but not getting the details right, because they, those socialists, wanted to get rid of judaism anyway.
A solution may be what Rabbi Bar Hayyim has done.. to adopt a pronounciation which is probably like or equal to, yemenite.. Or based on descriptions from rav saadya gaon. To research what one thinks is the most correct pronounciation. And regarding customs, he, based on jewish sources, throws them off and adopts the ones of the place he lives - israel.
Though although they go way back. If rabbi bar hayyim is developing minchag eretz yisroel, then it is very easy for him to suggest adopting it!!!
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