I disagree with Chaim on Fundamental issues, but still support JTF

[The Shadow]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

1) I totally disagree with the Torah postion on abortion.  I believe in woman's right to choose.

2)I don't agree for putting a man to death for rape, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it happened!  Chaim is a little too quick to pull the switch on the guy. I'm sure there are women out there, who would like to see some previous boyfriends expunged, and would concoct a rape story

3) I have some other large Philosophical issues where  I totally disagree with Chaim's belief system, or torah, but I dont want to go into it here.

Putting all these things aside, I would throw my vote in for Chaim.

I know the Jews would be better off if Chaim was Prime Minister of Israel.  I do have some serious reservations, however, I think I could put them aside.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Are you Jewish?

[Joe Schmo]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

1) I totally disagree with the Torah postion on abortion.  I believe in woman's right to choose.

2) I don't agree with putting a man to death for rape, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it happened!  Chaim is a little too quick to pull the switch on the guy. I'm sure there are women out there, who would like to see some previous boyfriends expunged, and would concoct a rape story

1) Women's right to choose has already done its dirty work.

2) Absolutely. 

[WestCoastJTF]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

1) I totally disagree with the Torah postion on abortion.  I believe in woman's right to choose.

2)I don't agree for putting a man to death for rape, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it happened!  Chaim is a little too quick to pull the switch on the guy. I'm sure there are women out there, who would like to see some previous boyfriends expunged, and would concoct a rape story

(1) It is inconceivable to me that a woman's right to decide that a child would be inconvenient would outweigh a child's right to life.  According to abortion proponents, a child 30 seconds before birth can be executed, but not a child 30 seconds after birth.  No one doubts a "fetus" is a child 30 seconds before birth...but do you think man (or woman) can say "on day X it is a fetus but on day X+1 it is a child"?  No.  Abortion is one of the most hideous sins...look what it has done to America.

(2) I heard a lawyer once say that rape is both the most under-reported and the most over-reported crime.  I don't know how you weed out false reports except through the justice system.  I don't have a problem with sentencing rapists to life without parole...indeed, I think this should be done for any serious sex offender, such as child molesters, because all the evidence shows that there is NO CURE...once someone is wired to molest children, they will always have the urge to molest children.

[WestCoastJTF]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

I forgot to add...I don't agree with Chaim on everything, either.  But JTF is very much a "big tent" movement.  We have Jews, Serbs, Indians, Evangelical Christians, Protestants, Italian-Americans, conservatives, etc.  I wouldn't expect anyone to agree 100% with Chaim and I don't think he thinks everyone in the movement does...for me, JTF's plan to saving America and Israel makes sense, I admire Chaim and the late Rabbi Kahane, and that's why I'm here.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There are issues where I differ with Chaim, but certainly not the ones you speak of, Shadow.

1: What isn't offensive to you about murdering a little child because you don't want another mouth to feed or to lose your "independence"? This isn't a Torah issue. It is not even a religious issue. It's a basic human decency issue.

2: False-rape stories are extremely rare. False-rape claims where the man in question did not even have sex with the woman are essentially nonexistent. Rape convictions without the presence of the suspect's semen AND obvious trauma are very rare. I think our society is far too kind to rapists, not the other way around. And yes--I believe every rape case deserves the death penalty.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

1) I totally disagree with the Torah postion on abortion.  I believe in woman's right to choose.

2)I don't agree for putting a man to death for rape, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it happened!  Chaim is a little too quick to pull the switch on the guy. I'm sure there are women out there, who would like to see some previous boyfriends expunged, and would concoct a rape story

3) I have some other large Philosophical issues where  I totally disagree with Chaim's belief system, or torah, but I dont want to go into it here.

Putting all these things aside, I would throw my vote in for Chaim.

I know the Jews would be better off if Chaim was Prime Minister of Israel.  I do have some serious reservations, however, I think I could put them aside.

So it is okay for a Woman for Murder her child?? A woman's right to kill?? that is the only right that is up for debate. In Torah it says that only in the life of the Mother. An abortion can be performed but each limb has to be cut off and removed from the womb one at a time. Over Turn Roe V Wade

[Trumpeldor]

Those are legit differences with Chaim. However, you probably agree that late and partial term abortions are murder.   

[EagleEye]

Option #2 makes sense, it would seem that suspicion should not be enough, it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  My standards of evidence are a little bit higher than some of the others, and I surely wouldn't tolerate inaccurate executions.

[JTFFan]

I don't think I remembered correctly, but did Chaim say righteous gentiles have to return to Israel or stay in America? I think he said righteous gentiles can stay in America and support Israel and the Jews.

[Dr. Dan]

1.  Abortion is only permitted when a mother's life is in danger.  In my opinion, one can debate on danger to one's life might be.  Anyway, my point is that it shoudln't be a matter of choice..that's messed up..really messed up to make it a choice.  In fact, Gd forbid if a woman had to abort a fetus, it should be because she had no choice but to do it.

2. I think brutal rape like from a serial rapist should warrant the death penalty.  Acquaintence rape is the one I get concerned with because there are those who try to exploit it.  And wiht teh justice system we have today, someone innocent can be screwed over...

[JTFFan]

1.  Abortion is only permitted when a mother's life is in danger.  In my opinion, one can debate on danger to one's life might be.  Anyway, my point is that it shoudln't be a matter of choice..that's messed up..really messed up to make it a choice.  In fact, Gd forbid if a woman had to abort a fetus, it should be because she had no choice but to do it.

2. I think brutal rape like from a serial rapist should warrant the death penalty.  Acquaintence rape is the one I get concerned with because there are those who try to exploit it.  And wiht teh justice system we have today, someone innocent can be screwed over...

I definitely agree on number 2. Some innocent do get screwed over.

[Husar]

Mills wrote this, about one Mother:

"Once again, I recall that article about the woman who gave birth to her daughter while in Auschwitz
 She was repeatedly adviced to abort her ferus or else the guards would kill her, getting an abortion could have helped her survived. Nevertheless, she did not get an abortion and her daughter was born right there,they both survived. If this poor woman had her daughter IN a concentration camp under those terible conditions NO woman could tell me that having their child is too "hard" for them."

And I find it just purely,
immensely, giganticaly convincing,
and beautiful, especially because
it happened in the most
horrible conditions,
this MOTHER is DEFINITELY
an EXAMPLE for every single
Mother on earth.

 

Say NO to abortion/foetus-mass-murdering !!!

 

[Raulmarrio2000]

I disagree with Chaim on fundamental issues but still support JTF. 

1) I totally disagree with the Torah postion on abortion.  I believe in woman's right to choose.

2)I don't agree for putting a man to death for rape, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it happened!  Chaim is a little too quick to pull the switch on the guy. I'm sure there are women out there, who would like to see some previous boyfriends expunged, and would concoct a rape story

(1) It is inconceivable to me that a woman's right to decide that a child would be inconvenient would outweigh a child's right to life.  According to abortion proponents, a child 30 seconds before birth can be executed, but not a child 30 seconds after birth.  No one doubts a "fetus" is a child 30 seconds before birth...but do you think man (or woman) can say "on day X it is a fetus but on day X+1 it is a child"?  No.  Abortion is one of the most hideous sins...look what it has done to America.

(2) I heard a lawyer once say that rape is both the most under-reported and the most over-reported crime.  I don't know how you weed out false reports except through the justice system.  I don't have a problem with sentencing rapists to life without parole...indeed, I think this should be done for any serious sex offender, such as child molesters, because all the evidence shows that there is NO CURE...once someone is wired to molest children, they will always have the urge to molest children.

Regarding abortion, I consider it is even worse that other forms of murder.
Regarding death penalty, in case it is used, it must be to punish the criminal for what he has already done. Not to prevent re-offense. I don't agree with the idea of executing someone just because he has evil urges and can't be cured. If he deserves execution, then execute him for he what he did! If he deserves jail, take him to jail then. If he cannot be cured, let him spend the rest of his life in jail after the condemn, just for security.

[Joe Schmo]

False-rape stories are extremely rare. False-rape claims where the man in question did not even have sex with the woman are essentially nonexistent. Rape convictions without the presence of the suspect's semen AND obvious trauma are very rare. I think our society is far too kind to rapists, not the other way around. And yes--I believe every rape case deserves the death penalty.

You're a feminist.

Plain and simple.

And you're completely insane as well.  You're saying (with your profound Mexican intellect) that even when a woman falsely accuses a man of rape (for revenge, etc.), and these accusations lead to a conviction, that the man should be put to death?!

[newman]

False-rape stories are extremely rare. False-rape claims where the man in question did not even have sex with the woman are essentially nonexistent. Rape convictions without the presence of the suspect's semen AND obvious trauma are very rare. I think our society is far too kind to rapists, not the other way around. And yes--I believe every rape case deserves the death penalty.

You're a feminist.

Plain and simple.

And you're completely insane as well.  You're saying (with your profound Mexican intellect) that even when a woman falsely accuses a man of rape (for revenge, etc.), and these accusations lead to a conviction, that the man should be put to death?!

Although only 1% of rape accusations may be false or 'buyers remorse' cases, that's still too many innocent men in jail. An automatic death sentance would result in innocent deaths and that's murder under Torah law.

[CorrieDeservedIt]

Most abortions i hear about are teen black girls, who wants that, let them have an abortion.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You're a feminist.

Plain and simple.

And you're completely insane as well.  You're saying (with your profound Mexican intellect) that even when a woman falsely accuses a man of rape (for revenge, etc.), and these accusations lead to a conviction, that the man should be put to death?!

And you are a bipolar racist.

[Lisa]

You're a feminist.

Plain and simple.

And you're completely insane as well.  You're saying (with your profound Mexican intellect) that even when a woman falsely accuses a man of rape (for revenge, etc.), and these accusations lead to a conviction, that the man should be put to death?!

The purpose of a trial by jury of one's peers is to determine whether or not the woman's claims are true.  For example, in the case of that filthy slut of a stripper, there was no DNA evidence to be found, no traces of semen, and the woman finally said she wasn't even sure of being penetrated.  Furthermore, one of the students was able to prove, through cell phone records that he was not even there was the alleged "rape" took place. 

So criticizing Chaimfan for being a "feminist" and making fun of his ethnicity is totally uncalled for. 

[The Shadow]

You can bet the Chaim Fan, tuchas licker, wouldn't want his assssssssssss fried for a false rape charge and conviction.  He's ok with it for other guys. hahahaha

[Trumpeldor]

You can bet the Chaim Fan, tuchas licker, wouldn't want his assssssssssss fried for a false rape charge and conviction.  He's ok with it for other guys. hahahaha

keep it civil guys

[Lisa]

You can bet the Chaim Fan, tuchas licker, wouldn't want his assssssssssss fried for a false rape charge and conviction.  He's ok with it for other guys. hahahaha

That was also uncalled for.

[cjd]

It's almost impossible to carry out a death sentence for murder today let alone rape. People who are called to answer for crimes such as rape need to be sentenced on strong unshakable evidence. The books are filled with people who were convicted and served time on  bad evidence and lies. Rape is not a capital offense. It should be punished by long jail time and nothing more .

[newman]

It's almost impossible to carry out a death sentence for murder today let alone rape. People who are called to answer for crimes such as rape need to be sentenced on strong unshakable evidence. The books are filled with people who were convicted and served time on  bad evidence and lies. Rape is not a capital offense. It should be punished by long jail time and nothing more .

When there is DNA evidense and no question of consent as in the case of a child rape......yeah, death!

But where it's two adults and there's no bruises or marks ??

[cjd]

It's almost impossible to carry out a death sentence for murder today let alone rape. People who are called to answer for crimes such as rape need to be sentenced on strong unshakable evidence. The books are filled with people who were convicted and served time on  bad evidence and lies. Rape is not a capital offense. It should be punished by long jail time and nothing more .

When there is DNA evidense and no question of consent as in the case of a child rape......yeah, death!

But where it's two adults and there's no bruises or marks ??

True you make a good point about the child rape. That is on another more depraved level and could justify a death sentence.