Author Topic: Islam ? A Man-made Religion  (Read 14737 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« on: December 07, 2007, 12:21:38 AM »

Islam ? A Man-made Religion
http://islam-watch.org/Zaa/Islam-Man-made-Religion.htm
by Zaa Brifd

25 Nov, 2007

Muslims claim that Islam is a divine religion. According to them after its revelation God cancelled all His divine religions revealed before it. They claim that Judaism and Christianity were divine but incomplete religions and, therefore, after almost 2000 years of the revelation of Christianity, God revealed Islam as a perfect and complete religion. They further say that this “perfect religion” is capable enough to help and guide human race in all spheres of life. By saying this, the Muslims themselves indirectly admit that God had not been able to foresee the evolutionary requirements of religions, peoples and societies and therefore he had to cancel Judaism to introduce Christianity and then cancelled Christianity to reveal Islam. Furthermore, they also indirectly admit that at the time of introducing Islam the God got matured and revealed a perfect and complete religion.
Being in this society, when I observe around, I am unable to find the high-quality characteristics which should have been in the individuals of a society practicing the principles of a perfect religion. Though I have not studied other religions except Islam, but I think they are complete religions for in those societies one can hardly observe any significant distortion or disruption that one may say that it is for the reasons that they are believers of incomplete religions. In fact, I am of the view, that the societies, except Islamic, are not hypocrite. The reason is that they are not as conservatives and rigid as Muslims are. Muslims always try to become good Muslims but they never bother to become good human beings. There is no answer to the question that what thing differentiates Islam from other religions. Other than rituals of some different kinds, I don’t see any thing at all which was not mentioned in the previously revealed divine religions and later on God came to know those deficiencies and introduced a new religion free of all the deficiencies.
I have noticed a difference that the Muslims are more practical in terms of performing their rituals etc. but at the same time they are evenly involved in the social evils. Is it not double standards? I believe that religions were to help human become humane. Today, we see that most of the unrest on the earth is because of the “perfect religion”. That “perfect religion” has created hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims. So much so, it has also created extreme dislike towards each others among the followers of different Islamic factions. There are substantial references which prove that Islam is not a divine religion but a man-made. I am sure an unbiased and impartial study of the following paragraphs will help one ponder whether one is on the right path or otherwise:-

Quran: 5:51: Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.¡¨

Quran 2:120: Never will the jews nor the christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him) till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, the Guidance of Allah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance. And if you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him) were to follow their (jews and christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Quran), then you would have against Allah neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.

Is it possible that a practicing Muslim will ever think good of Jews and Christians in the light of the above verses? If not, then the chances of bringing peace and harmony all around are bleak.

In the teachings of Islam, there are lots of things look funny. Sexual related matters have been given much importance which, truly speaking irritates me. In this write up I would try to highlight the unjust, irrational, unnatural, illogical and discriminatory.



Permission to have Four Wives Simultaneously

If we discuss the matter of permission of having four wives simultaneously, one fails to find out any positive aspect of such permission. It is absolutely against the human behavior and instinct. I say with authority that none of the husbands or wives in the world can ever bear his or her spouse’s sexual relations with any other guy. Since Muhammad was also a human being, therefore the following Hadith narrates his behavior:

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 39:

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet entered upon her while a man was sitting with her. Signs of anger seemed to appear on his face as if he disliked that. She said, "Here is my (foster) brother." He said, "Be sure as to who is your foster brother, for foster suckling relationship is established only when milk is the only food of the child."

When Muhammad’s wives started becoming jealous of each other and whenever they became annoyed with him on any issue, he came up with a new verse as words of God in support of his action and sexual lust and to make them frightened as well:

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 119:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas : had been eager to ask 'Umar bin Al-Khattab about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said 'If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah, your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes). (66.4) till 'Umar performed the Hajj and I too, performed the Hajj along with him. (On the way) 'Umar went aside to answer the call of nature, and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler full of water, and when 'Umar had finished answering the call of nature, I poured water over his hands and he performed the ablution. Then I said to him, "O chief of the Believers! Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said: 'If you two (wives of the Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes)?" (66.4) He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn Abbas. They were 'Aisha and Hafsa." Then 'Umar went on narrating the Hadith and said, "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiyya bin Zaid who used to live in Awali-al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turn. He used to go one day and I another day. When I went, I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the Divine Inspiration and other things, and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our wives, but when we came to the Ansar, we found that their women had the upper hand over their men, so our women also started learning the ways of the Ansari women. I shouted at my wife and she retorted against me and I disliked that she should answer me back. She said to me, 'Why are you so surprised at my answering you back? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet answer him back and some of them may leave (does not speak to) him throughout the day till the night.' The (talk) scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever has done so will be ruined!' Then I proceeded after dressing myself, and entered upon Hafsa and said to her, 'Does anyone of you keep the Prophet angry till night?' She said, 'Yes.' I said, 'You are a ruined losing person! Don't you fear that Allah may get angry for the anger of Allah's Apostle and thus you will be ruined? So do not ask more from the Prophet and do not answer him back and do not give up talking to him. Ask me whatever you need and do not be tempted to imitate your neighbor (i.e., 'Aisha) in her manners for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet ." Umar added,"At that time a talk was circulating among us that (the tribe of) Ghassan were preparing their horses to invade us. My Ansari companion, on the day of his turn, went (to the town) and returned to us at night and knocked at my door violently and asked if I was there. I became horrified and came out to him. He said, 'Today a great thing has happened.' I asked, 'What is it? Have (the people of) Ghassan come?' He said, 'No, but (What has happened) is greater and more horrifying than that: Allah's Apostle; has divorced his wives. 'Umar added, "The Prophet kept away from his wives and I said "Hafsa is a ruined loser.' I had already thought that most probably this (divorce) would happen in the near future. So I dressed myself and offered the Morning Prayer with the Prophet and then the Prophet; entered an upper room and stayed there in seclusion. I entered upon Hafsa and saw her weeping. I asked, 'What makes you weep? Did I not warn you about that? Did the Prophet divorce you all?' She said, 'I do not know. There he is retired alone in the upper room.' I came out and sat near the pulpit and saw a group of people sitting around it and some of them were weeping. I sat with them for a while but could not endure the situation, so I went to the upper room where the Prophet; was and said to a black slave of his, 'Will you get the permission (of the Prophet) for 'Umar (to enter)?' The slave went in, talked to the Prophet about it and then returned saying, 'I have spoken to the Prophet and mentioned you but he kept quiet.' Then I returned and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit. but I could not bear the situation and once again I said to the slave, 'Will you get the permission for 'Umar?' He went in and returned saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' So I returned again and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit, but I could not bear the situation, and so I went to the slave and said, 'Will you get the permission for 'Umar?' He went in and returned to me saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' When I was leaving, behold! The slave called me, saying, 'The Prophet has given you permission.' Then I entered upon Allah's Apostle and saw him Lying on a bed made of stalks of date palm leaves and there was no bedding between it and him. The stalks left marks on his side and he was leaning on a leather pillow stuffed with date-palm fires. I greeted him and while still standing I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you divorced your wives?' He looked at me and said, 'No.' I said, 'Allah Akbar!' And then, while still standing, I said chatting, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? We, the people of Quraish used to have power over our women, but when we arrived at Medina we found that the men (here) were overpowered by their women.' The Prophet smiled and then I said to him, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? I entered upon Hafsa and said to her, "Do not be tempted to imitate your companion ('Aisha), for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet.' " The Prophet smiled for a second time. When I saw him smiling, I sat down. Then I looked around his house, and by Allah, I could not see anything of importance in his house except three hides, so I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Invoke Allah to make your followers rich, for the Persians and the Romans have been made prosperous and they have been given (the pleasures of the world), although they do not worship Allah.' Thereupon the Prophet sat up as he was reclining. and said, 'Are you of such an opinion, O the son of Al-Khattab? These are the people who have received the rewards for their good deeds in this world.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Ask Allah to forgive me.' Then the Prophet kept away from his wives for twenty-nine days because of the story which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha. The Prophet had said, 'I will not enter upon them (my wives) for one month,' because of his anger towards them, when Allah had admonished him. So, when twenty nine days had passed, the Prophet first entered upon 'Aisha. 'Aisha said to him, 'O Allah's Apostle! You had sworn that you would not enter upon us for one month, but now only twenty-nine days have passed, for I have been counting them one by one.' The Prophet said, 'The (present) month is of twenty nine days.' 'Aisha added, 'Then Allah revealed the Verses of the option. (2) And out of all his-wives he asked me first, and I chose him.' Then he gave option to his other wives and they said what 'Aisha had said. " (1) The Prophet, ' had decided to abstain from eating a certain kind of food because of a certain event, so Allah blamed him for doing so. Some of his wives were the cause of him taking that decision; therefore he deserted them for one month.

Whenever Muhammad found himself in problems with regard to justify his unjustifiable desires and wishes, he would frighten his followers narrating the so-called divine verdict in support of his illogical actions:

Quran: 33:50: O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their dowries; and those whom thy right hand owns out of the spoils of war that God has given thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncle, and daughters of thy paternal aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncle, and daughters of thy maternal aunts, who have emigrated with thee, and any Believing woman, if she gives herself to the Prophet, provided the Prophet also desires to take her in marriage; it is exclusive for thee, apart from the Believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and what their right hands own; it is so that there may be no blame on thee; and surely God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran: 33:51: Thou mayest put off whom thou wilt out of them and mayest take to thee whom thou wilt; and if thou seekest any whom thou hast set aside, there is no blame on thee; thus it is likelier that their eyes will be cooled, and they will not be grieved, and all of them will be pleased with what thou givest them; and God knows what is in your hearts; and God is Knowing, Clement.

Quran: 66:1: O Prophet, why dost thou forbid what God has made lawful to thee; thou seekest the good pleasure of thy wives; and God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran: 66:2: God has indeed ordained for you the absolution of your oaths; and God is your Protector; and He is the Knowing, the Wise.

Quran: 66:3: And when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a certain matter; then, when she told of it, and God informed him about it, he made known part of it and turned aside from a part; so when he told her of it, she said, `who told thee of this'; he said, `the One Knowing, the Aware has told me'.

Quran: 66:4: If you (two) turn to God, for your hearts had inclined; but if you support each other against him, then God is his Protector, and also Gabriel and the righteous among the Believers; and, thereafter, the angels are his supporters.

Quran: 66:5: It may be that if he divorces you, his Lord may give him in exchange wives better than you __ surrendering, believing, obedient, penitent, serving, journeying, previously married and virgins.

The following Hadith describes that after introduction of the above verses Muhammad’s purpose was solved and his wives became God fearing:

Sahih Bokhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 48:
Narrated Hisham's father: Khaula bint Hakim was one of those ladies who presented themselves to the Prophet for marriage. 'Aisha said, "Doesn't a lady feel ashamed for presenting herself to a man?" But when the Verse: "(O Muhammad) You may postpone (the turn of) any of them (your wives) that you please,' (33.51) was revealed, " 'Aisha said, 'O Allah's Apostle! I do not see, but, that your Lord hurries in pleasing you.' "

Since human instincts of both male and female are same, therefore, as mentioned in the forgoing paragraphs, no woman can ever bear his husband’s sexual relations with any other woman even if she is the truest believer. It is because of the possessive instinct/behavior of the human beings which equally exists in both the genders. Muhammad’s wives knew him, his way of living, his teachings, etc. more than any body else and in spite of these they were unable to accept each other, which was natural. The following Hadiths are quoted to give examples of their attitude.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 138:
Narrated al-Qasim: Aisha said that whenever the Prophet intended to go on a journey, he drew lots among his wives (so as to take one of them along with him). During one of his journeys the lot fell on 'Aisha and Hafsa. When night fell the Prophet would ride beside 'Aisha and talk with her. One night Hafsa said to 'Aisha, "Won't you ride my camel tonight and I ride yours, so that you may see (me) and I see (you) (in new situation)?" 'Aisha said, "Yes, (I agree.)" So 'Aisha rode, and then the Prophet came towards 'Aisha's camel on which Hafsa was riding. He greeted Hafsa and then proceeded (beside her) till they dismounted (on the way). 'Aisha missed him, and so, when they dismounted, she put her legs in the Idhkhir and said, "O Lord (Allah)! Send a scorpion or a snake to bite me for I am not to blame him (the Prophet).

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 152:
Narrated Anas: While the Prophet was in the house of one of his wives, one of the mothers of the believers sent a meal in a dish. The wife at whose house the Prophet was, struck the hand of the servant, causing the dish to fall and break. The Prophet gathered the broken pieces of the dish and then started collecting on them the food which had been in the dish and said, "Your mother (my wife) felt jealous." Then he detained the servant till a (sound) dish was brought from the wife at whose house he was. He gave the sound dish to the wife whose dish had been broken and kept the broken one at the house where it had been broken.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 156:
Narrated 'Aisha: I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Apostle as I did of Khadija because Allah's Apostle used to remember and praise her too often and because it was revealed to Allah's Apostle that he should give her (Khadija) the glad tidings of her having a palace of Qasab in Paradise .

The following is a very funny example of discrimination of a Prophet of a “perfect religion¨ when it is his person, the divine law is different, when there is the case of other believers, the law is different and when the matter of his own daughter confronted him, the divine law was set aside against the human instinct. See the following Hadith:

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 157:
Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: I heard Allah's Apostle who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to allow them to marry their daughter to Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless 'Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me."

If we talk about sexual desire of the human beings, both the sexes are even. Just imagine the situation that a man having four wives fulfills his sexual desire of four times with four wives. How can each of the four wives satisfy their sexual desire of four times? Does it not look unnatural, illogical and discriminatory and violation of women’s rights?

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 139:
Narrated 'Aisha: Sada bint Zam'a gave up her turn to me ('Aisha), and so the Prophet used to give me ('Aisha) both my day and the day of Sad;

From the above Hadith one comes to know that Aisha had sexual desire more than her normal turn that was why she accepted the turn of Sada Bint Zam’a. Had Sada Bint Zam’a not given her turn to Aisha, mean that she (Aisha) had to suppress her desire.

It is a fact that sex is one of the primary instincts of human beings (male, female). It has been given so much importance but all with irrationality. I think it objectionable for two reasons. One): A large number of verses revealed wrongfully (ignoring women’s rights) in favor of sexual lust of male Muslims? Whereas, lots of other important matters including religious tolerance, peace, equality, justice etc. are discussed with less or little emphasis. Two): There are millions of couples all over the world who married and spent whole life with each other. It is not understandable that why Muslims have been permitted to marry as many as four women simultaneously and can keep countless maids with rightful permission to have sexual intercourse.

Reasons: I am of the view that there were two main reasons behind the illogical permission of having four wives simultaneously and countless female captives (maids) in Islam: One ? obviously, for the sexual lust of men and to attract more and more people (men) to accept Islam. I would say that this was a kind of bribe offered to the men of a society which was male dominated. Two ? To produce more and more children, to maximize the number of Muslims in a short period of time.

As said above, no one can deny the need of doing sex and I think it can be done having one spouse or partner, which is more feasible, logical, economical and based on equality. As I have stated above there are millions of couples around the world living happily and satisfactorily with regard to sex. Although, in this way, the Muslims have been able to increase themselves in numbers, yet they failed to establish themselves as good human beings and beneficial to others. Muslims could not visualize the bad impact of this rapid birth rate. Today, most of the problems like, social, health, education etc. are because of the growing population.


Uncontrollable Sexual Desire of a Prophet:

Muhammad being a prophet should have been a role model for the Muslims in all respect including sex. But it is astonishing that he could not control his sexual desires and married to nine women, many more than a common Muslim. He was also allowed to keep countless maids. See the following Quranic verse Muhammad told his followers to justify his marriages and keeping of maid captives.

Quran 33:50: O Prophet! We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have given their dowers; and those ladies whom your right hands possess (from the prisoners of war) whom Allah has assigned to you; and the daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with you; and the believing woman who gave herself to the Prophet if the Prophet desires to marry her ¡V this permission is only for you and not for the other believers; we know what restrictions We have imposed on the other believers concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess. We have granted you this privilege as an exception so that no blame may be attached to you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful¡¨.

The following Hadiths prove that Muhammad was a sex hungry person:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 297:
Narrated Um Salama: While I was lying with the Prophet under a single woolen sheet, I got the menses. I slipped away and put on the clothes for menses. He said, "Have you got "Nifas" (menses)?" I replied, "Yes." He then called me and made me lie with him under the same sheet.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad: (on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 300:
Narrated Maimuna: When ever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 319:
Narrated Zainab bint Abi Salama: Um-Salama said, "I got my menses while I was lying with the Prophet under a woolen sheet. So I slipped away, took the clothes for menses and put them on. Allah's Apostle said, 'Have you got your menses?' I replied, 'Yes.' Then he called me and took me with him under the woolen sheet." Um Salama further said, "The Prophet used to kiss me while he was fasting. The Prophet and I used to take the bath of Janaba from a single pot."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 320:
Narrated Um Salama: While I was lying with the Prophet under a woolen sheet, I got my menses. I slipped away and put on the clothes for menses. The Prophet said, "Have you got your menses?" I replied, "Yes." He called me and I slept with him under the woolen sheet.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 6:
Narrated Anas: The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 142:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 55:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : 'Umar bin Al-Khattab said, "When Hafsa bint 'Umar became a widow after the death of (her husband) Khunais bin Hudhafa As-Sahmi who had been one of the companions of the Prophet, and he died at Medina. I went to 'Uthman bin 'Affan and presented Hafsa (for marriage) to him. He said, "I will think it over.' I waited for a few days, then he met me and said, 'It seems that it is not possible for me to marry at present.' " 'Umar further said, "I met Abu Bakr As-Siddique and said to him, 'If you wish, I will marry my daughter Hafsa to you." Abu Bakr kept quiet and did not say anything to me in reply. I became more angry with him than with 'Uthman. I waited for a few days and then Allah's Apostle asked for her hand, and I gave her in marriage to him. Afterwards I met Abu Bakr who said, 'Perhaps you became angry with me when you presented Hafsa to me and I did not give you a reply?' I said, 'Yes.' Abu Bakr said, 'Nothing stopped me to respond to your offer except that I knew that Allah's Apostle had mentioned her, and I never wanted to let out the secret of Allah's Apostle. And if Allah's Apostle had refused her, I would have accepted her.' "
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Islam ? A Man-made Religion 2
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2007, 12:22:00 AM »

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 143:
Narrated 'Aisha: Whenever Allah's Apostle finished his 'Asr prayer, he would enter upon his wives and stay with one of them. One day he went to Hafsa and stayed with her longer than usual.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 144:
Narrated 'Aisha: that during his fatal ailment, Allah's Apostle, used to ask his wives, "Where shall I stay tomorrow? Where shall I stay tomorrow?" He was looking forward to Aisha's turn. So all his wives allowed him to stay where he wished, and he stayed at 'Aisha's house till he died there. 'Aisha added: He died on the day of my usual turn at my house. Allah took him unto Him while his head was between my chest and my neck and his saliva was mixed with my saliva.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 8, Book 82, Number 827:
Narrated 'Aisha: Abu Bakr came to me while Allah's Apostle was sleeping with his head on my thigh. Abu Bakr said (to me), "You have detained Allah's Apostle and the people, and there is no water in this place." So he admonished me and struck my flanks with his hand, and nothing could stop me from moving except the reclining of Allah's Apostle (on my thigh), and then Allah revealed the Divine Verse of Tayammum.

Sahih Bokhari: Book 8, Number 367:
Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz: Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet. He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle."

Sahih Muslim: (Book #008, Hadith #3325)
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) set out on an expedition to Khaibar and we observed our morning prayer in early hours of the dawn. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) then mounted and so did Abu Talha ride, and I was seating myself behind Abu Talha. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) moved in the narrow street of Khaibar (and we rode so close to each other in the street) that my knee touched the leg of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him). (A part of the) lower garment of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) slipped from his leg and I could see the whiteness of the leg of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him). As he entered the habitation he called: Allah-o-Akbar (Allah is the Greatest). Khaibar is ruined. And when we get down in the valley of a people evil is the morning of the warned ones. He repeated it thrice. In the meanwhile the people went out for their work, and said: By Allah, Muhammad (has come). Abd al-'Aziz or some of our com- panions said: Muhammad and the army (have come). He said: We took it (the territory of Khaibar) by force, and there were gathered the prisoners of war. There came Dihya and he said: Messenger of Allah, bestow upon me a girl ont of the prisones. He said: Go and get any girl. He made a choice for Safiyya daughter of Huyayy (b. Akhtab). There came a person to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Apostle of Allah, you have bestowed Safiyya bint Huyayy, the chief of Quraiza and al-Nadir, upon Dihya and she is worthy of you only. He said: Call him along with her. So he came along with her. When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) saw her he said: Take any other woman from among the prisoners. He (the narrator) said: He (the Holy Prophet) then granted her emancipation and married her. Thabit said to him: Abu Hamza, how much dower did he (the Holy Prophet) give to her? He said: He granted her freedom and then married her. On the way Umm Sulaim embellished her and then sent her to him (the Holy Prophet) at night. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) appeared as a bridegroom in the morning. He (the Holy Prophet) said: He who has anything (to eat) should bring that. Then the cloth was spread. A person came with cheese, another came with dates, and still another came with refined butter, and they prepared hais and that was the wedding feast of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)

On the one hand it is said that there is great reward for those who try to act upon the precedents of Prophet Muhammad. On the other hand one can see that divine orders for Muhammad and the common Muslims were not the same. See the following Hadiths references which describe that rules of the games, especially with regard to sex, were different for Muhammad and the other Muslims:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 49:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet got married while he was in the state of Ihram.

Malik's Muwatta (Book #20, Hadith #20.20.71)
Yahya related to me from Malik, from Nafi, from Nubayh ibn Wahb, who was from the tribe of Bani Abd ad-Dar, that Umar ibn Ubaydullah sent a message to Aban ibn Uthman (who was amir of the hajj at the time), while both of them were in ihram, saying, "I want to marry Bint Shayba ibn Jubayr to Talha ibn Umar and I want you to be present." Aban told him that he should not do that and said, "I heard Uthman ibn Affan say that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'A man in ihram should not marry, or give in marriage, or get betrothed.' "

Malik's Muwatta: (Book #20, Hadith #20.20.72)
Yahya related to me from Malik, from Da'ud ibn al-Husayn, that Abu Ghatafan ibn Tarif al-Murri told him that his father Tarif had married a woman while he was in ihram, and Umar ibn al-Khattab had rescinded the marriage.

Malik's Muwatta: (Book #20, Hadith #20.20.73)
Yahya related to me from Malik, from Nafi, that Abdullah ibn Umar used to say, "Someone in ihram may neither get married, nor arrange a marriage for himself or others."



56-year old Prophet Married a 9-Year Old Child:

Apart from having many wives, the divine prophet unjustifiably married with 9-year Aisha who was the daughter of one of his close associates, Abu Bakar. This seems to be very funny when the bridegroom is 56 and the bride is a child of just 9 years old. See the following references:

Sahih Bukhari (8.151)
Narrated Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me¡¨. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.)

Sahih Bukhari (5.234)
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Bukhari (9.140)
Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.¡¨

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 14:
Narrated ‘Aisha: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Suppose you landed in a valley where there is a tree of which something has been eaten and then you found trees of which nothing has been eaten, of which tree would you let your camel graze?" He said, "(I will let my camel graze) of the one of which nothing has been eaten before." (The sub-narrator added: 'Aisha meant that Allah's Apostle had not married a virgin besides herself.)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 177:
Narrated 'Aisha: Abu Bakr admonished me and poked me with his hands in the flank, and nothing stopped me from moving at that time except the position of Allah's Apostle whose head was on my thigh.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15:
Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle said (to me), "You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, 'If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.' "

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 86:
Narrated 'Aisha: When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house where I saw some women from the Ansar who said, "May you prosper and have blessings and have good omen."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 163:
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect.

I am unable to understand the message of Muhammad given to the Muslims through his marriage with Aisha. Is this not something shameful for Muslims to narrate that their Prophet married a 9 year old little girl when he was 56 years of age? Is there any logic to marry a minor? Can Muslims give just one example that any of them married his 9 years old daughter to a man of fifty plus. Is it medically right to marry a minor girl, before she reaches the age of puberty? It is absolutely immoral, uncivilized and unethical and wilderness.


Muhammad’s marriage with his adopted son’s wife

Zaid Ibn Harith was Muhammad’s adopted son. Zaid married with Zainab Bint Jahsh. Zainab was a very pretty woman. Muhammad could not refrain himself from getting her for fulfillment of his sexual lust. Zaid, somehow or the other came to know the intention of Muhammad and divorced Zainab. After he divorced her, Muhammad told his followers about the revelation of the following verse to justify his unethical, immoral and an ashamed action of marrying his adopted son’s wife:

Quran33:37: O Prophet, remember when you said to the one (Zaid, Prophet¡¦s adopted son) whom Allah as well as you had favored: Keep your wife in wedlock and fear Allah¨. You sought to hide in your heart what Allah intended to reveal; you were afraid of the people whereas it would have been more appropriate to fear Allah. So when Zaid divorced his wife, we gave her to you in marriage, so that there remains no hindrance for the believers to wed the wives of their adopted sons if they divorced them. And Allah’s Command had to be carried out.¨

In my opinion no one can even think of such a shameful action when one is already enjoying company of more than one wife. To justify his marriage Muhammad brought the following verse to declare the status of adopted son:

Quran 33:4: God did not make your adopted son as your own sons. To declare them so is your empty claim. God’s word is righteous and constitutes true guidance.¨

Moreover, this episode gives a message to the adopted sons all over the world not to trust their fathers with regard to their wives. Is this not a matter for the Muslims to be ashamed of? The following Hadith describes that Muhammad asked his followers that they should not think bad of a women who is married or engaged to their Muslims brothers. But he could not control his desire and somehow or the other his adopted son Zaid came to know the ill intention of his father and had to divorced her so that Muhammad could marry her.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 73:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet decreed that one should not try to cancel a bargain already agreed upon between some other persons (by offering a bigger price). And a man should not ask for the hand of a girl who is already engaged to his Muslim brother, unless the first suitor gives her up, or allows him to ask for her hand.

Malik's Muwatta: (Book #28, Hadith #28.1.2)
Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Abdullah ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Do not ask for a woman in marriage when another muslim has already done so." Malik said, "The explanation of the statement of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, according to what we think - and Allah knows best - is that 'Do not ask for a woman in marriage when another muslim has already done so' means that when a man has asked for a woman in marriage, and she has inclined to him and they have agreed on a bride-price, which she has suggested and with which they are mutually satisfied, it is forbidden for another man to ask for that woman in marriage. It does not mean that when a man has asked for a woman in marriage, and his suit does not agree with her and she does not incline to him that no one else can ask for her in marriage. That is a door to misery for people."

Sunnan Abudawud: (Book #11, Hadith #2076)
Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: One of you must not ask a woman in marriage when his brother has done so already, and one of you must not sell (his own goods) when his brother has already sold (his goods) except with his permission.

After going through the above paragraphs, at least I am unable to comprehend the positive message of Muhammad’s nine marriages, his keeping of countless maids, marriage with a 9-year old minor girl and marriage with his adopted son’s wife. It could have been a matter of proud for the Muslims if Islamic history was full of stories of Muhammad’s patience, self-control and sexual disinterest when in Quran also keeping away from sexual relations with women has been regarded good. See the following verse:

Quran: Chapter # 3, Verse # 39: Then the angels called him, while he was standing in prayer in Al-Mihrab (a praying place or a private room), (saying): "Allah gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), confirming (believing in) the Word from Allah(i.e. the creation of Iesa (Jesus) , the Word from Allah ("Be!" - and he was!)), noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous."


Islamic inequality towards Women

Lots have been said regarding rights of the women in Islam but fact of the matter is that the women’s status in Islam is as of a second class citizen. The following Hadiths are quoted in support of the argument:

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 31:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet: The Prophet said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:
Narrated Usama bin Zaid: The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 47:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar : Allah's Apostle forbade Ash-Shighar, which means that somebody marries his daughter to somebody else, and the latter marries his daughter to the former without paying Mahr.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 82:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "It is not lawful for a woman (at the time of wedding) to ask for the divorce of her sister (i.e. the other wife of her would-be husband) in order to have everything for herself, for she will take only what has been written for her."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 113:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she will break. So if you want to get benefit from her, do so while she still has some crookedness."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 114:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not hurt (trouble) his neighbor. And I advise you to take care of the women, for they are created from a rib and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part; if you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked, so I urge you to take care of the women."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 120:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A woman should not fast (optional fasts) except with her husband's permission if he is at home (staying with her)."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 121:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126:
Narrated Imran: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 132:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a: The Prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 134:
Narrated Aisha: regarding the Verse: 'If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part ...') (4.128) It concerns the woman whose husband does not want to keep her with him any longer, but wants to divorce her and marry some other lady, so she says to him: 'Keep me and do not divorce me, and then marry another woman, and you may neither spend on me, nor sleep with me.' This is indicated by the Statement of Allah: 'There is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between them both, and (such) settlement is better." (4.128)

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interrupts with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

 

Islamic Bribe for the Men:

Muhammad introduced a new religion to an ignorant and male dominated society offering sexual bribe in the shape of permission of having four wives at one time and countless concubines. In this way he cleverly killed two birds with one stone and the number of his followers started increasing by leaps and bounds.

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 130:
Narrated 'Abdullah: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (2) and recited to us: -- 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa': While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)."

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 154:
Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were sitting with Allah's Apostle, (he) Allah's Apostle said, "While I was sleeping, I saw a woman performing ablution beside a palace. I asked, "whose palace is this?' It was said, 'This palace belongs to 'Umar.' Then I remembered his sense of Ghira and returned." On that 'Umar started weeping in that gathering and said, "O Allah's Apostle! How dare I think of my self-respect being offended by you?"

Sahih Bokhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 174:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: We were with the Prophet in Ghazwa, and when we returned and approached Medina, I wanted to hurry while riding a slow camel. A rider overtook me and pricked my camel with a spear which he had, whereupon my camel started running as fast as any other fast camel you may see. I looked back, and behold, the rider was Allah's Apostle. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I am newly married " He asked, "Have you got married?" I replied, "Yes." He said, "A virgin or a matron?" I replied, "(Not a virgin) but a matron" He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could play with her and she with you?" When we reached (near Medina) and were going to enter it, the Prophet said, "Wait till you enter your home early in the night so that the lady whose hair is unkempt may comb her hair and that the lady whose husband has been away may shave her pubic hair."

According to Muslims it had become inevitable for God to reveal the divine religion Islam canceling the previous religions. Since there are non-Islamic societies in most of the countries of the world as well, one should ponder as to what positive changes Islam has brought for the betterment of human being all over the world. What principles and morality distinguish the Islamic societies from rest of the societies? What good things in terms of values, ethics, ideology, etc. the non-Islamic societies are lacking? In contrast, we do observe that Islam happens to be a main cause of turbulence, disputes and instability in the world.

 
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline JTFFan

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3964
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2007, 01:15:57 AM »
iSSlam is a religion of moon worshippers and in the closet arafat sodomites.  ;D 

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2007, 01:32:39 AM »
If Islam is a true religion I'm the moon. :::D
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline JTFFan

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3964
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2007, 10:49:00 AM »
If Islam is a true religion I'm the moon. :::D
Yes indeed ;D ;D ;D
Finally iSSlam is a religion of suicide. Most end up blowing themselves up. :D

ftf

  • Guest
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2007, 03:17:30 PM »
IMO, this article should be stickied, it's better than most of my "What does Islam say about"

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2007, 09:31:28 PM »
 O0
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2007, 10:20:52 PM »
Quote
Permission to have Four Wives Simultaneously

If we discuss the matter of permission of having four wives simultaneously, one fails to find out any positive aspect of such permission. It is absolutely against the human behavior and instinct. I say with authority that none of the husbands or wives in the world can ever bear his or her spouse’s sexual relations with any other guy.


Despite what you think about the Koran, you cannot attack polygamy. It is sanctioned by the Torah, and it was the natiral way of living until the West ( especially Greeks) made their man made customs. However polygamy is a right that very few men have taken in history. It was not common in Israel, but the Torah sets the rules for it, because it's allowed and kosher. The Ravs made Takanot for some Jews to forbid it during a time, it was a provisonal ban. But noone can change the Goyim's right to practise it!!! There is no takanot for Goyim.
To attack polygamy is a blasphemy against Avraham, Alav ha Shalom

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 10:45:44 PM »
In Belgium/Europe polygamy it is  punishable by law.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 11:38:55 PM »
In Belgium/Europe polygamy it is  punishable by law.

That's why I say the West is not free either. Where is the religious freedom? Torah allows polygamy and Goyim can practise it. Human laws will NEVER supercede Torah

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2007, 11:57:15 PM »
In Belgium/Europe polygamy it is  punishable by law.

That's why I say the West is not free either. Where is the religious freedom? Torah allows polygamy and Goyim can practise it. Human laws will NEVER supercede Torah

It is a tradition of Europeans to marry 1 woman.
I don't mind Jews doing what they want,

but I do care about africans and arabs in Belgium having 16 children with some wives, and we having to pay for it.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2007, 12:09:40 AM »
Africans and Arabs are not Europeans natives, if you let them enter Belguim, then it's your fault.
Western scorn for polygamy is really offensive, anyway. What about a native Belgian who wants to marry more than 1 woman? Would you allow it?

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2007, 12:23:50 AM »
Africans and Arabs are not Europeans natives, if you let them enter Belguim, then it's your fault.
Western scorn for polygamy is really offensive, anyway. What about a native Belgian who wants to marry more than 1 woman? Would you allow it?

First: If there was a way to forbid Arabs to make children in Europe , i would endorse it.

Second;  If a Belgian man would have 5 woman, I would forbid these woman to be given social welfare money.
That man has to support all of the woman & children.


Third : The Church forbids it.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2007, 12:36:10 AM »
Africans and Arabs are not Europeans natives, if you let them enter Belguim, then it's your fault.
Western scorn for polygamy is really offensive, anyway. What about a native Belgian who wants to marry more than 1 woman? Would you allow it?

First: If there was a way to forbid Arabs to make children in Europe , i would endorse it.

Second;  If a Belgian man would have 5 woman, I would forbid these woman to be given social welfare money.
That man has to support all of the woman & children.


Third : The Church forbids it.


1- The solution is not to control birth which is a Nazi practise. The solution is to deny residense to foreigners.
2- In any case a man must support his family, and if he is poor, he must be assisted, no matter if he has many children with one or many wives.
3- The Church is for those who believe in it, and must not make laws.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2007, 12:40:48 AM »
Africans and Arabs are not Europeans natives, if you let them enter Belguim, then it's your fault.
Western scorn for polygamy is really offensive, anyway. What about a native Belgian who wants to marry more than 1 woman? Would you allow it?

First: If there was a way to forbid Arabs to make children in Europe , i would endorse it.

Second;  If a Belgian man would have 5 woman, I would forbid these woman to be given social welfare money.
That man has to support all of the woman & children.


Third : The Church forbids it.


1- The solution is not to control birth which is a Nazi practise. The solution is to deny residense to foreigners.
2- In any case a man must support his family, and if he is poor, he must be assisted, no matter if he has many children with one or many wives.
3- The Church is for those who believe in it, and must not make laws.

I'm 100% agreeing Raul
What with the muslims already here? Expel them?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

newman

  • Guest
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2007, 12:44:30 AM »

2- In any case a man must support his family, and if he is poor, he must be assisted, no matter if he has many children with one or many wives.

Rubbish!

People should only have children if they can afford it. I am under no obligation to support the children of others with my taxes.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2007, 12:46:35 AM »

2- In any case a man must support his family, and if he is poor, he must be assisted, no matter if he has many children with one or many wives.

Rubbish!

People should only have children if they can afford it. I am under no obligation to support the children of others with my taxes.
Well i'm not going to forbid someone to help hus poor polygame  friends.
Of course , the tax-payer does not pay a single $ for him.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2007, 12:54:26 AM »
Hmmmm, quite difficul issue, if they are not citizens yet, encourage them to go back. Europe does need foreign inmigration. The result of people living outside their own backgrounds is usually harmfull for both cultures. They are neither Arabs nor Belgians, so they can't have an identity and will make no progress. That's is happening in France, Africans and Arabs are marginated and become violent. It's very difficult to live in peace outside one's own country. They lose their culture and don't accquire the new either, so they are unlikely to have good values.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2007, 01:09:36 AM »
Hmmmm, quite difficul issue, if they are not citizens yet, encourage them to go back. Europe does need foreign inmigration. The result of people living outside their own backgrounds is usually harmfull for both cultures. They are neither Arabs nor Belgians, so they can't have an identity and will make no progress. That's is happening in France, Africans and Arabs are marginated and become violent. It's very difficult to live in peace outside one's own country. They lose their culture and don't accquire the new either, so they are unlikely to have good values.

I think a solution would be to expel / execute all arabs/blacks that are:
- drugs-abusers, or drugs-dealers
- rapist
- murderers

to expel :

-welfare parasites
- who don't speak the Native's language. (exceptions for Americans, Japanese, Israeli businessmen of course )
- those who wear Hijab
- those who affiliate themselves with underground 'culture'
 


Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2007, 01:30:26 AM »
The best solution is not to alloew inmigration for those who simple want a better life and go to the first European country they can enter.

Murderers must be of course executed or imprisoned, you cannot send them back freely.

Underground culture can be chosen by a Belgian native also!!! You cannot expell natives!!!

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2007, 01:49:19 AM »
The best solution is not to alloew inmigration for those who simple want a better life and go to the first European country they can enter.

Murderers must be of course executed or imprisoned, you cannot send them back freely.

Underground culture can be chosen by a Belgian native also!!! You cannot expell natives!!!

I meant :

I think a solution would be to expel / execute all arabs/blacks that are:
- drugs-abusers, or drugs-dealers
- rapist
- murderers

to expel all arabs/blacks that are::

-welfare parasites
- who don't speak the Native's language. (exceptions for Americans, Japanese, Israeli businessmen of course )
- those who wear Hijab
- those who affiliate themselves with underground 'culture'
 
All native
 - drugs-abusers, or drugs-dealers
- rapist
- murderers
must be executed as well.

All native
- welfare parasites must be force to work.
- underground 'culture' must be forced to wear normal clothes,
and their internet line must be blocked for all obscene internet content.

punishment for those who don't co-operate,
those who proof themselves worthy civilians, are pardoned all errors made.

The result will be a dynamic society.

All media - bonzas / authors / famous persons that
deliberately mock Christianity (making vulgar depictions of Christian symbols) to promote atheism,
that mock Jewish faith, that promote racial intermarriage, that promote homosexuality,
that promote unhealthy life-styles, that promote adultery, that promote anti-religious hatred;

will be revoked the right to speak in public.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2007, 02:25:39 AM »
I only agree on the issue of not allowing uncontrolled inmigration. And punishing murderers and thieves. Murdererer could be executed if the system of justice is safe and there is no mistake.
Natives can wear what they want. Drug abusers only damage themselves. Dealers who promote drugs and even take advantage of unprotected youth, can be considered like murderers, perhaps. Many drug dealers use some tricks ro spread drugs that would equate murder, or at least intentional serious injures
Atheists should be encouraged to be Bnei Noah, you cannot force them to believe in Christianity. But if they believe in nothing, it's their problem

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2007, 03:02:04 AM »
I only agree on the issue of not allowing uncontrolled inmigration. And punishing murderers and thieves. Murdererer could be executed if the system of justice is safe and there is no mistake.
Natives can wear what they want. Drug abusers only damage themselves. Dealers who promote drugs and even take advantage of unprotected youth, can be considered like murderers, perhaps. Many drug dealers use some tricks ro spread drugs that would equate murder, or at least intentional serious injures
Atheists should be encouraged to be Bnei Noah, you cannot force them to believe in Christianity. But if they believe in nothing, it's their problem

Today in Belgium murderers get 30 years,
in reality this become 12 - 13 years.

Sub - cultures are made by people to degenerate the youth.
They should be put under close guard
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline ramen

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2008, 06:19:08 PM »
why is there so much hatred towards black people o this forum.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Islam ? A Man-made Religion
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2008, 06:24:58 PM »
why is there so much hatred towards black people o this forum.

Because most black people have an evil mind.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.