Honest question for JTF supporters and leadership

[dejavu]

Quote from: Ambiorix on Today at 12:08:22 PM

Mr. Dejavu,

1 do you agree the next President of the USA should address the following problems ? 
muslim/mexican/turd world-immigration, the decline of the Church , multi-culturalism, affirmative action, anti-white racism, neo-nazism, anti-semitism, negative white birth-rate, booming muslim birth-rate, development of nuclear weapons by muslims, oil-addiction, Jihad, abortions, Soviet-style government, globalisation, MTV-gangster rap, delocalisation of employment to turd world...... ...

2 Do you agree Jews have the right to have a country that is zero% muslim inhabited?
-> do you support the expulsion of all "P-alestians" out of Israel?

1.
muslim/mexican/turd world-immigration – Immigration is a serious issue that definitely needs to be addressed if we want to continue to be a sovereign nation.  We need foreign workers but we need legal ones.  Should president address it (yes)


Prove me you need foreign workers.
A higher birth-rate could have prevented this problem.
It will lead to the turd-worldisation of the USA

Its estimated that there are 12 million Illegal immigrants in the US at this time.  Probably about another 5 or so million that are here legally on Visas.  So if we were to just kick them out we would have 17 million people that needed to be hired and trained to handle the jobs that we already have.  I don’t think we have that many unemployed people in the US and even if there are I highly doubt that we would people would want to fill these jobs.  Also seeing as we are living in a global economy the only way that we can fully understand the people that we are selling our goods to is to employ some of them.  To believe that we could determine exactly what they needed without them being part of the process is a retarded concept. 


the decline of the Church – not an issue that the government should deal with.  There is a separation of church and state for a reason Should president address it (no)



multi-culturalism – this is a good thing,  diversity leads to innovation, group think leads to bad decisions.  Look at the Islamic groups they seem to have the largest problem with group think of anyone. Should president address it (no)

I think this is a naive view yo have, multi-culturalism & political corectness are marxist inventions. Study this things, you seem to be unaware of the problems. Diversity leads to honour killings, clitoris-chopping, millions of tax-payer's money to make a police-state, in order to control the hordes of jihadis.

Diversity does not lead to these things, diversity leads to understanding that even though we may believe different things it is the experiences of our lives are what lead us to providing the most different points of view and having the highest likelihood of coming up with the best answer.  Honor killings, clitoris-chopping and etc are a product of different morals and morals are something that must be learned they cannot be forced.

affirmative action – like communism good in theory, failure in practice.  Should president address it (no)
You are a traitor to your people. Your president should address these problems ASAP , are USA will become a turd world country.

Who are my people.  As far as im concerned every US citizen is a member of my people white black or otherwise.

anti-white racism – this is an issue that local authorities should govern, if on an international level it is not our business.  (no)
you can put your head in the sand , for all anti-white racism that is happening in the world, and deny any problem, until suddenly the mob comes to chop your head off.

Its not that I need to take my head out of the sand I just don’t need to have my nose in the air.  Your whole argument seems to be an us vs. them, holier than thou attitude that seems to have a hint of racism itself yet I am the one that is being called an anti-Semite repeatedly in this thread.  Also Paul has been accused of having a white supremacist support background yet the answers I am receiving from you are much the same as I would expect from a WP group.

neo-nazism – same answer as above

anti-semitism – same answer

negative white birth-rate – this is a good thing all races should have a negative birth rate we have far to many people in the world.  Do I think that this is an issue that a president should address.  (no) what happens between the sheets is the business of the people doing it.
Crap. If people like you have to defend America, it will be an all black continent by 2023.

wrong it will be a Mexican continent by then they are the ones that are reproducing at an alarming rate.

booming muslim birth-rate – this is a bad thing but its not our place to govern it. (no)
I mean : you're facing extinction, and your enemy reproduction rate is booming, and you think you can stay out of this?? Are you insane?

apparently… what do you propose? Eugenics? That ought to make us some more friends around the world

development of nuclear weapons by muslims – this is an issue that should be watched but we should not be intervening
crazy, you bomb all the facilities at once, otherwise in 2030 ALL nations have atomic weapons.


Most of our major enemies already have nuclear weapons and do they use them… no its suicide

oil-addiction – most definitely.  This is something that the next president must address we need to move off of oil and coal for our environment and our future.  Also we need to move towards energy independence so that we can get the best price possible on the oil that we do get through competition.  (yes)
at least some sanity

Yes we agree that it needs to be done however we agree for vastly different reasons.  I think that we need to get off of oil addiction because of its adverse effects on the environment and also I think that the oil that we have in Alaska should be unlocked so that the Arab countries have to compete to keep the prices low

Jihad – should be watched but not acted upon until an imminent threat is upon us.  (yes)
IT IS A IMMEDIATE TREATH TO YOU AND ME !!!

disagree

Abortions – I am not against abortion however I do believe that rowe v wade should be overturned because it is unconstitutional.  The right to an abortion should be left up to the state governments so for this reason yes the next president should address it.
Abortion is killing the next generation. It is one of the factors that is leading to the extinction of White people. As well as Israeli.... Wake Up!!

If the minorities are having babies at a faster rate wouldn’t that also mean that they are most likely having abortions at a faster rate.  By your reasoning making abortions illegal would only make the extinction of the white race come faster

Soviet-style government – I feel like a broken record but same as Jihad
Not understood. Better fight Big government in the USA.

Ok apparently I misunderstood what you meant by soviet style government but I will make a larger answer so that I am very specific where I stand on all of the issues regarding the size of government.  I thought you were referring to soviet style governments being made in other countries

The purpose of government is to protect our citizens at home and abroad.  This does not mean that they should be the moral authority of the people.  The government should not control business through subsidies, free trade through protectionism, healthcare ( socialist democrats  ), nation building or anything else of this nature.

Globalization – this is a good thing.  Peace through economic dependence.  We don’t go to war with China because we both realize that we would cripple our own economy if we did so.  This is something that a president should strive for  (yes)
Of course NOT.
The relation with China is disastrous for America!!


I disagree wholeheartedly.  It is far from ideal but it is successful and moving in the right direction.

MTV-gangster rap – we should not try to impose our morals on others.  If its for everyone… we are adults and we can take care of ourselves and if its for the kids then the parents need to do their job.  (no)
No. We should strive for a abolishment of these type of media. THose gansters are sickening the youth. Is creating violence all over the place. Lock these crappers up in guantanamo bay.

Hurray for censorship and unlawful detention

You scare me if you truly believe this

Parents should control what their kids are exposed to and anyone who blames society for the way that their kids turn out are seriously taking a copout approach.  Society is not to blame for kids it’s the way that you bring them up.

delocalisation of employment to turd world – I think you are referring to outsourcing in this one and I believe that we should outsource some jobs however we need to have real free trade where the market decides the outcomes rather than the protectionism granted under Nafta and Cafta and the UN.
Protectionism is a good thing. USA should use it more.

Protectionism is absolutely horrible for this country it leads to non-competitive business practices.  Same with subsidies.  If the person who can provide a service provides it for the lowest cost possible then everyone wins.  Also protectionism when used by the US only leads to a tit for tat exchange where other countries are unwilling to accept our goods and place large tariffs on our goods.  What is the best way to perform in a race?  Is it to get out in front and force everyone to stay behind you?  No if you do this you will only spend too much energy and it will take much longer to finish the race.  The best way is to let the other people in the race work with you taking turns breaking the wind and making the best out of the energy of the group.  Now this doesn’t guarantee that you win the race but it will most definitely allow you to finish stronger than if you tried to win by handicapping everyone else including yourself.

This falls onto the argument that many people have about wal-mart in the USA.  It provides goods to people at lower prices than are available at any other business and due to this is has put a lot of smaller “mom and pop” stores out of business.  Does this mean that the government needs to intervene and subsidize the smaller businesses to compete?  Absolutely not they are being purged because they are no longer competitive and if a situation comes around where it is necessary for mom and pop stores to keep walmarts prices down they will be built and they will adjust the market.

Protectionism leads to higher prices which leads to inflation.  And inflation is the single most important factor that is facing this country at the moment.  Housing prices are going down and inflation is going up at the same time.  What does this mean peoples life savings that are invested in their housing are literally disappearing.

2.
I do not support Israels doing so however at the same time I don’t think that it is necessary for Israel to get our support.  If that’s what Israel think needs to be done then by all means they should go for it.
You'd better agree with the fact that Israel in the long run cannot survive if the Arabs inside their borders. Same counts for USA/EU/Russia. Assimilating millions of Arabs is almost impossible.

And how do you assimilate people at a rate that is successful… by having immigration reform and allowing for people to enter the country at a manageable rate while firmly punishing those who break our laws.  However our laws do not exceed our borders.

[ftf]

Besides, after NYC was nuked the entire USA would be united to destroy Iran.

A nuke going off in NYC wouldn't be 100,000 dead, it'd be more like 5-9 million dead.

Would the USA be onto Iran though? Iran could claim that they had nothing to do with it, they could have smuggled the nuke across the border from mexico in a suitcase, and had some random man set it off, there would be no trail to follow to lead to iran.

[dejavu]

Besides, after NYC was nuked the entire USA would be united to destroy Iran.

A nuke going off in NYC wouldn't be 100,000 dead, it'd be more like 5-9 million dead.

Would the USA be onto Iran though? Iran could claim that they had nothing to do with it, they could have smuggled the nuke across the border from mexico in a suitcase, and had some random man set it off, there would be no trail to follow to lead to iran.

If it can be hidden in a suitcase its hardly going to have the distructive force to take out an entire city.  Also if a nuclear weapon is involved there would have to be some kind of involvement at the state level.  Anyone with the will to do so can hijack a plane but a lot more sophistication is necessary to form a nuclear attack. 

[Muck DeFuslims]

Ron Paul Moron bemoans:

Ah I’m being called a moron now… I have been perfectly civil as far as I can tell to this point and until now I have received the same.


The Ron Paul Moron still doesn't consider a nuclear armed Iran a threat to America.

The Ron Paul Moron is still demonstrating the most twisted, myopic reasoning and a complete lack of logic and common sense to convince the good people of this forum that the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans, the destruction of NYC and our way of life could ever be palatable or justifiable.

The Ron Paul Moron considers America to be the aggressor.

The Ron Paul Moron insists moooozies attack us only because 'we're there' (whatever that means).

The Ron Paul Moron considers Kahanists terrorists, but doesn't consider Islam to be a retrograde, genocidal, expansionist movement or a threat to Western civilization.

The Ron Paul Moron states "I disagree that the US should be allies with Israel".

The Ron Paul Moron states "I refer to current US foreign policy as terrorism.  In my opinion any preemptive attack constitutes terrorism."

Here's a newsflash for you, Ron Paul Moron, you're not only a moron, you're a sick, twisted, demented, wet behind the ears, sack of feces and you don't deserve to be treated with any respect or civility.

[igo]

Dejavu, you look at this world as a non-believer in Creation, you do not believe in God. I think that's a very dangerous position to take. Either the universe was designed, or it came about by random chance. These are the only options. If you want to believe life started with a big bang where nothing exploded and produced everything, and that a cosmic soup of some kind came alive and out of it the first life form found someone to marry, and something to eat, and slowly evolved into everything we see today, you go right ahead, but I'm telling you the real truth about life is found in the Bible, the King James version. Great great great great great great grandpa was not a monkey.

“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” Psalm 14:1

One of the things you fail to understand about one of our enemies, is that you cannot tame Islam. See, the Quran, which is one person's (Mohamed's) plagiarism of the Bible, teaches that Muslims fight and kill Jews and Christians (and non-religious) people if those people do not convert to Islam. That is their religion. So no matter how much YOU reason with yourself that Islam means peace, and Islam is peaceful, this is not what their, ahem.. "holy" book teaches. If you just "leave them alone" hoping they'll leave you alone, your a fool. Sorry. It's that simple. Their own book teaches otherwise. You don't even believe them? You should.

It always amazes me people who think all the enemy really needs is a hug, then everything will be okay. Journalists for example who are worried about offending Muslims in their news reports don't realize their heads would be the first to come off under Islamic rule!

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22

[Dr. Dan]

You hit on another reason that I am strongly against intervention in that we cannot afford it.  What happened when we left the soviets alone… they collapsed because they were under a leadership style which was flawed in nature.  I believe that many of these countries will burn themselves out if we leave them alone and let them die to civil wars.  If we leave them alone the oppressed within their countries will rise up and create a government on their own and they will most likely recreate it in the strategy that seems most successful.  Currently this is the democratic strategy.  However if we attack them we give them a cause to galvanize behind to spread their influence.  In all honesty by attacking them we create the power vacuum which will lead to these extremist groups gaining control. 

Its not an idea that was only presented by Ron Paul it is a view that many of the RP supporters held before the campaign even began.  They are not the ones making martyrs, we are the ones attacking their homes and letting them all get personally involved behind a cause.

The feeling that I am getting on this forum is that there seems to almost take an intolerant view that they are in some way in human due to their religious views.  How is this any different than the way that the Nazis scapegoated the Jews in WW2 to justify their cause.



I agree with letting the muzzies kill each other...HOwever there are places where the US needs to intervene and defend and other places to stay away and let those nations implode while we keep a close eye on them.

Ron Paul seems to take the extreme of staying away from all countries..That's wrong.  And there are people in our govt who want to be invovled with every country as well. That's wrong as well.  We have to pick and choose wisely who we help and we should ignore for the time being.

Secondly, after what we have seen in Iraq, the smart thing to do should have simply been to bomb the heck out of Iraq and not care if Saddam stayed in power or not.  Same with Iran. We should not comitt ground troops but also do a bombing run. Perhpas have a few special agents on the ground as well.

THe current war against the Muslims isn't one of conventional war where these armies are visible. They fight the guerrella fight..we need to counter with a better strategy than being target practice anywhere we go now.  I think this is where Bush et al has failed miserably.

[Dr. Dan]

Dejavu, you look at this world as a non-believer in Creation, you do not believe in G-d. I think that's a very dangerous position to take. Either the universe was designed, or it came about by random chance. These are the only options. If you want to believe life started with a big bang where nothing exploded and produced everything, and that a cosmic soup of some kind came alive and out of it the first life form found someone to marry, and something to eat, and slowly evolved into everything we see today, you go right ahead, but I'm telling you the real truth about life is found in the Bible, the King James version. Great great great great great great grandpa was not a monkey.

“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no G-d.” Psalm 14:1

One of the things you fail to understand about one of our enemies, is that you cannot tame Islam. See, the Quran, which is one person's (Mohamed's) plagiarism of the Bible, teaches that Muslims fight and kill Jews and Christians (and non-religious) people if those people do not convert to Islam. That is their religion. So no matter how much YOU reason with yourself that Islam means peace, and Islam is peaceful, this is not what their, ahem.. "holy" book teaches. If you just "leave them alone" hoping they'll leave you alone, your a fool. Sorry. It's that simple. Their own book teaches otherwise. You don't even believe them? You should.

It always amazes me people who think all the enemy really needs is a hug, then everything will be okay. Journalists for example who are worried about offending Muslims in their news reports don't realize their heads would be the first to come off under Islamic rule!

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22

Here's the deal...it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via "zap tree and zap monkey and zap human"...it's the fact that whichever way it was created, it still involved the Hand of Gd.  We are wee tiny humans that can barely understand what He's all about...so rather than mucking through interpretations..the bottom line is that Gd is Great and He exists...the rest is commentary.

[dejavu]

Ron Paul Moron bemoans:

Ah I’m being called a moron now… I have been perfectly civil as far as I can tell to this point and until now I have received the same.


The Ron Paul Moron still doesn't consider a nuclear armed Iran a threat to America.

The Ron Paul Moron is still demonstrating the most twisted, myopic reasoning and a complete lack of logic and common sense to convince the good people of this forum that the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans, the destruction of NYC and our way of life could ever be palatable or justifiable.

The Ron Paul Moron considers America to be the aggressor.

The Ron Paul Moron insists moooozies attack us only because 'we're there' (whatever that means).

The Ron Paul Moron considers Kahanists terrorists, but doesn't consider Islam to be a retrograde, genocidal, expansionist movement or a threat to Western civilization.

The Ron Paul Moron states "I disagree that the US should be allies with Israel".

The Ron Paul Moron states "I refer to current US foreign policy as terrorism.  In my opinion any preemptive attack constitutes terrorism."

Here's a newsflash for you, Ron Paul Moron, you're not only a moron, you're a sick, twisted, demented, wet behind the ears, sack of feces and you don't deserve to be treated with any respect or civility.

The Ron Paul Moron still doesn't consider a nuclear armed Iran a threat to America. 

Correct I still believe that just because a country that we don’t like has them does not mean that they will use them… see North Korea, China, Pakistan, India, and the Soviet Union.  And by sending troops over there and making it so that they are not able to have them will only strengthen their resolve and make it so that they will work even harder to get them meaning that the amount of troops over there will increase to the point of a full scale invasion which we cannot afford, guarantees casualties on both sides, and also will only help their cause in the long run.

The Ron Paul Moron is still demonstrating the most twisted, myopic reasoning and a complete lack of logic and common sense to convince the good people of this forum that the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans, the destruction of NYC and our way of life could ever be palatable or justifiable.

When have I tried to say that the destruction of NYC is either palatable or justifiable?  I have repeatedly stated that I was in support of going and getting the people who were responsible for 9/11 but there is absolutely no connection between 9/11 and the invasion of iraq.

The Ron Paul Moron considers America to be the aggressor.

Yes I do consider America the aggressor at this time.  Iraq had nothing to do with the events of 9/11 and we invaded a sovereign country which is wrong no matter how much I don’t agree with the religion/values of the people that were invaded.

The Ron Paul Moron insists moooozies attack us only because 'we're there' (whatever that means).

Do you think that we have been sitting in our country for the last 50 years and only recently tried to impose our interests on these countries.  That’s naive.  We have been putting bases in Saudi Arabia with our oil buddies and supporting Israel and we even overthrew the government of Iran in 1953

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

The Ron Paul Moron considers Kahanists terrorists, but doesn't consider Islam to be a retrograde, genocidal, expansionist movement or a threat to Western civilization.

Does it matter what I think about what Israelis do in their country?  No… Do I consider Kahanism terrorism? Yes I do because you support a first strike policy.  Do I have the right to stop you?  No I do not.  Do I consider a lot of Islamics terrorists?  Of course I do for the same reason as I consider Kahanists terrorists.

The only time that the US should step in is when a threat to our citizens is imminent.

The Ron Paul Moron states "I disagree that the US should be allies with Israel".

The US should be allies with none, trade with all.

The Ron Paul Moron states "I refer to current US foreign policy as terrorism.  In my opinion any preemptive attack constitutes terrorism."

I still believe 100% what I typed.

Here's a newsflash for you, Ron Paul Moron, you're not only a moron, you're a sick, twisted, demented, wet behind the ears, sack of feces and you don't deserve to be treated with any respect or civility.

Yes not attacking unless there is an imminent threat of attack.  I’m one sick and twisted bastard, I better move to Syria so I can go around screaming. Allah!!!

Dejavu, you look at this world as a non-believer in Creation, you do not believe in G-d. I think that's a very dangerous position to take. Either the universe was designed, or it came about by random chance. These are the only options. If you want to believe life started with a big bang where nothing exploded and produced everything, and that a cosmic soup of some kind came alive and out of it the first life form found someone to marry, and something to eat, and slowly evolved into everything we see today, you go right ahead, but I'm telling you the real truth about life is found in the Bible, the King James version. Great great great great great great grandpa was not a monkey.

“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no G-d.” Psalm 14:1

One of the things you fail to understand about one of our enemies, is that you cannot tame Islam. See, the Quran, which is one person's (Mohamed's) plagiarism of the Bible, teaches that Muslims fight and kill Jews and Christians (and non-religious) people if those people do not convert to Islam. That is their religion. So no matter how much YOU reason with yourself that Islam means peace, and Islam is peaceful, this is not what their, ahem.. "holy" book teaches. If you just "leave them alone" hoping they'll leave you alone, your a fool. Sorry. It's that simple. Their own book teaches otherwise. You don't even believe them? You should.

It always amazes me people who think all the enemy really needs is a hug, then everything will be okay. Journalists for example who are worried about offending Muslims in their news reports don't realize their heads would be the first to come off under Islamic rule!

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22

First of all you cant quote scripture to convert a non believer… that does not work.  You have to respect the book as some kind of truth before the words have meaning.  As for the god issue let me fine tune my position on creation.  At this time I do not believe that I have the correct answer; therefore, my position is that I will not sell myself to any one faith or non-religious doctrine.  The reason that I consider myself an atheist is because I do not believe in a higher power at this time.  Does that mean that I believe in the big bang theory?  Not necessarily however it is the best answer that I can find at this time.  Here is the way that I feel about religion for the most part.



Leave them alone and hopefully they wont attack oversimplifies the issue the problem is justification.  If they attack us that gives us justification for a complete assault where we can wipe them off the map and their people will not have a cohesive center to regroup behind because they started the fight.  On the other hand if we attack them to say see look they attacked us they are evil support us and we will set you free.  So by allowing them to have a first strike or atleast the imminent threat of attack there will be less loss of American life in the short and long term for America. 

I do not believe that Islam is a religion of peace but at the same time I don’t believe that they have the means or the support to garner any kind of attack of any magnitude.

You hit on another reason that I am strongly against intervention in that we cannot afford it.  What happened when we left the soviets alone… they collapsed because they were under a leadership style which was flawed in nature.  I believe that many of these countries will burn themselves out if we leave them alone and let them die to civil wars.  If we leave them alone the oppressed within their countries will rise up and create a government on their own and they will most likely recreate it in the strategy that seems most successful.  Currently this is the democratic strategy.  However if we attack them we give them a cause to galvanize behind to spread their influence.  In all honesty by attacking them we create the power vacuum which will lead to these extremist groups gaining control. 

Its not an idea that was only presented by Ron Paul it is a view that many of the RP supporters held before the campaign even began.  They are not the ones making martyrs, we are the ones attacking their homes and letting them all get personally involved behind a cause.

The feeling that I am getting on this forum is that there seems to almost take an intolerant view that they are in some way in human due to their religious views.  How is this any different than the way that the Nazis scapegoated the Jews in WW2 to justify their cause.



I agree with letting the muzzies kill each other...HOwever there are places where the US needs to intervene and defend and other places to stay away and let those nations implode while we keep a close eye on them.

Ron Paul seems to take the extreme of staying away from all countries..That's wrong.  And there are people in our govt who want to be invovled with every country as well. That's wrong as well.  We have to pick and choose wisely who we help and we should ignore for the time being.

Secondly, after what we have seen in Iraq, the smart thing to do should have simply been to bomb the heck out of Iraq and not care if Saddam stayed in power or not.  Same with Iran. We should not comitt ground troops but also do a bombing run. Perhpas have a few special agents on the ground as well.

THe current war against the Muslims isn't one of conventional war where these armies are visible. They fight the guerrella fight..we need to counter with a better strategy than being target practice anywhere we go now.  I think this is where Bush et al has failed miserably.

I agree with letting the muzzies kill each other...HOwever there are places where the US needs to intervene and defend and other places to stay away and let those nations implode while we keep a close eye on them.

Ron Paul seems to take the extreme of staying away from all countries..That's wrong.  And there are people in our govt who want to be invovled with every country as well. That's wrong as well.  We have to pick and choose wisely who we help and we should ignore for the time being.

Who makes this decision and how do we manage this slippery slope?  The problem with this kind of reasoning is that it cannot be managed and only leads to special interests involvement and wasted government resources.

On your second issue why did we go into Iraq in the first place if not to get rid of Saddam.  Also after these bombings what kind of government do you expect to get in Iraq except for anti-American.  That’s like shooting a guy in the head and expecting his loving wife to be your best friend; it’s not going to happen.

Dejavu, you look at this world as a non-believer in Creation, you do not believe in G-d. I think that's a very dangerous position to take. Either the universe was designed, or it came about by random chance. These are the only options. If you want to believe life started with a big bang where nothing exploded and produced everything, and that a cosmic soup of some kind came alive and out of it the first life form found someone to marry, and something to eat, and slowly evolved into everything we see today, you go right ahead, but I'm telling you the real truth about life is found in the Bible, the King James version. Great great great great great great grandpa was not a monkey.

“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no G-d.” Psalm 14:1

One of the things you fail to understand about one of our enemies, is that you cannot tame Islam. See, the Quran, which is one person's (Mohamed's) plagiarism of the Bible, teaches that Muslims fight and kill Jews and Christians (and non-religious) people if those people do not convert to Islam. That is their religion. So no matter how much YOU reason with yourself that Islam means peace, and Islam is peaceful, this is not what their, ahem.. "holy" book teaches. If you just "leave them alone" hoping they'll leave you alone, your a fool. Sorry. It's that simple. Their own book teaches otherwise. You don't even believe them? You should.

It always amazes me people who think all the enemy really needs is a hug, then everything will be okay. Journalists for example who are worried about offending Muslims in their news reports don't realize their heads would be the first to come off under Islamic rule!

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22

Here's the deal...it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via "zap tree and zap monkey and zap human"...it's the fact that whichever way it was created, it still involved the Hand of Gd.  We are wee tiny humans that can barely understand what He's all about...so rather than mucking through interpretations..the bottom line is that Gd is Great and He exists...the rest is commentary.

But I don’t believe the story about the hand in the sky.

[Dr. Dan]

hand in the sky or not...something created something..not nothing created something...how? makes no difference in this arguement.

[dejavu]

random luck... same reason i believe that there is life on other planets... i cant believe that we would be the only ones that got lucky.

[igo]

Dr. Dan wrote, "The smart thing to do should have simply been to bomb the heck out of Iraq and not care if Saddam stayed in power or not. Same with Iran. The current war against the Muslims isn't one of conventional war where these armies are visible. They fight the guerrella fight..we need to counter with a better strategy than being target practice anywhere we go now. I think this is where Bush et al has failed miserably."

I agree 100% on this Dan.   If the World War II heroes used 'precision bombing' against the Germans instead of leading a MASSIVE bombing campaign against them, we'd all be speaking German right now. Political correctness is killing the West. The next time Ahmadinejad tells his colleagues the way to hasten the coming of the Islamic Messiah is to launch a war to destroy Israel and America first, we should carpet bomb his country and the Middle East.

Dr. Dan wrote, "Here's the deal...it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via "zap tree and zap monkey and zap human"...it's the fact that whichever way it was created, it still involved the Hand of Gd.  We are wee tiny humans that can barely understand what He's all about...so rather than mucking through interpretations..the bottom line is that Gd is Great and He exists...the rest is commentary."

Of course God is Great and He exists, but ahem,.. I have to disagree with your other comment. Keep in mind none of us will agree with each other on every issue. But, that doesn't mean you still can't learn something from others. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean that the rest of them is bad - well, that's is true in most cases.

I have to strongly disagree with your "it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via (creation)" and the "so rather than mucking through interpretations" comment, because it really does matter. This is an extremely important topic. The Bible makes it clear God created the world in 6 literal, 24-hour days, and rested on the 7th:

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day." Exodus 20:11

I think it is sad that some people (not you specifically Dan) feel the need to change their beliefs just to fit in with an unproven theory. They try to massage the Bible into fitting a man made box. The earth is not billions of years old. No animal has ever been observed changing into any fundamentally different kind of animal. No one has ever observed life spontaneously arising from nonliving matter. Matter cannot make itself out of nothing. Evolutionism is a religious worldview that is not supported by science, Scripture, popular opinion, or common sense.

I would daresay that the main historic position of the Church has been young earth creation. It is primarily only in more recent times that the Church has sought to accommodate its views to "scientists" and believe in millions of years. The Bible's simplest interpretation is for a young earth creation account. A person cannot just ignore part of the Scripture and still claim to believe the Bible. Call me a literalist for my interpretation of the Bible, but that is what I am, and that, I believe very strongly, is how the Bible is to be taken, and I unashamedly hold to that.

If anyone wants instant proof of God's creation and that evolution is a ridiculous lie get up out of your chair and go look at yourself in the mirror. One human cell is more complicated than the space shuttle. Type into a Google search "Polonium halos" and find out what they are. These halos are solid scientific proof of the instantaneous creation spoken of in the Bible. And take an honest look at some examples of irreducible complexity too such as the EYE and the complex cell and the FLAGELLUM. This is all proof of an instant creation. If I said with a little rain, wind, and some erosion over a few millions years, the faces of four American Presidents created themselves on Mount Rushmore, you wouldn't believe me would you? And you'd be right. But, somehow there are people who believe DNA made itself out of nothing and produced everything we see today. Think about it.

After weighing all the evidence and reviewing the creation/evolution subject thousands of times, I believe and can say with all certainty that the Bible is infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of the living God. The universe was created in six literal, 24 hour days about 6,000 years ago as revealed in the creation verses of the Bible (see Mathew 19:4; Exodus 20:11; Genesis 1 & 5 etc……)

The theory of evolution is a lie from the Devil. Everyone knows that matter could not come from nothing exploding. Yet, they put this in your science book. This is what they believe. It is ridiculous! They do not have another choice except, "God created the heaven and the earth."

Please watch video:

Why Evolution is Sooooooooooooo Stupid.


Oh, and PS, I mean no offence by my comments.

May the LORD look on you with favor and give you peace.

[Dr. Dan]

Dr. Dan wrote, "The smart thing to do should have simply been to bomb the heck out of Iraq and not care if Saddam stayed in power or not. Same with Iran. The current war against the Muslims isn't one of conventional war where these armies are visible. They fight the guerrella fight..we need to counter with a better strategy than being target practice anywhere we go now. I think this is where Bush et al has failed miserably."

I agree 100% on this Dan.   If the World War II heroes used 'precision bombing' against the Germans instead of leading a MASSIVE bombing campaign against them, we'd all be speaking German right now. Political correctness is killing the West. The next time Ahmadinejad tells his colleagues the way to hasten the coming of the Islamic Messiah is to launch a war to destroy Israel and America first, we should carpet bomb his country and the Middle East.

Dr. Dan wrote, "Here's the deal...it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via "zap tree and zap monkey and zap human"...it's the fact that whichever way it was created, it still involved the Hand of Gd.  We are wee tiny humans that can barely understand what He's all about...so rather than mucking through interpretations..the bottom line is that Gd is Great and He exists...the rest is commentary."

Of course G-d is Great and He exists, but ahem,.. I have to disagree with your other comment. Keep in mind none of us will agree with each other on every issue. But, that doesn't mean you still can't learn something from others. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean that the rest of them is bad - well, that's is true in most cases.

I have to strongly disagree with your "it's not whether the universe was created via evolution or via (creation)" and the "so rather than mucking through interpretations" comment, because it really does matter. This is an extremely important topic. The Bible makes it clear G-d created the world in 6 literal, 24-hour days, and rested on the 7th:

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day." Exodus 20:11

I think it is sad that some people (not you specifically Dan) feel the need to change their beliefs just to fit in with an unproven theory. They try to massage the Bible into fitting a man made box. The earth is not billions of years old. No animal has ever been observed changing into any fundamentally different kind of animal. No one has ever observed life spontaneously arising from nonliving matter. Matter cannot make itself out of nothing. Evolutionism is a religious worldview that is not supported by science, Scripture, popular opinion, or common sense.

I would daresay that the main historic position of the Church has been young earth creation. It is primarily only in more recent times that the Church has sought to accommodate its views to "scientists" and believe in millions of years. The Bible's simplest interpretation is for a young earth creation account. A person cannot just ignore part of the Scripture and still claim to believe the Bible. Call me a literalist for my interpretation of the Bible, but that is what I am, and that, I believe very strongly, is how the Bible is to be taken, and I unashamedly hold to that.

If anyone wants instant proof of G-d's creation and that evolution is a ridiculous lie get up out of your chair and go look at yourself in the mirror. One human cell is more complicated than the space shuttle. Type into a Google search "Polonium halos" and find out what they are. These halos are solid scientific proof of the instantaneous creation spoken of in the Bible. And take an honest look at some examples of irreducible complexity too such as the EYE and the complex cell and the FLAGELLUM. This is all proof of an instant creation. If I said with a little rain, wind, and some erosion over a few millions years, the faces of four American Presidents created themselves on Mount Rushmore, you wouldn't believe me would you? And you'd be right. But, somehow there are people who believe DNA made itself out of nothing and produced everything we see today. Think about it.

After weighing all the evidence and reviewing the creation/evolution subject thousands of times, I believe and can say with all certainty that the Bible is infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of the living G-d. The universe was created in six literal, 24 hour days about 6,000 years ago as revealed in the creation verses of the Bible (see Mathew 19:4; Exodus 20:11; Genesis 1 & 5 etc……)

The theory of evolution is a lie from the Devil. Everyone knows that matter could not come from nothing exploding. Yet, they put this in your science book. This is what they believe. It is ridiculous! They do not have another choice except, "G-d created the heaven and the earth."

Please watch video:

Why Evolution is Sooooooooooooo Stupid.


Oh, and PS, I mean no offence by my comments.

May the LORD look on you with favor and give you peace.

Thank you for your kind words...I have to disagree with you on the other commentary that the universe was literally created in 7 days. Not saying that Gd can't do it..Of course He can.. He can do anything.  However, I think Gd is a lot more clever than just doing zap this and zap that..that theory of evolution can be the method by which He might have created the universe.

But it doesn't matter really...I'm interested in learning about evolution and scientific stuff. I see the beauty of Gd's handy-work either way. I just hope that someone who might disagree with me won't take away that beauty from my eyes. Seeing how many species are similar to each other fascinates me and just comes to show me even more so that Gd exists.

[dejavu]

rational thinkers are allowed to believe, i just make no statements that i know anything.

Religious people that believe in god do i do not have an issue with.  Its people who know it exists that bother me because it shows that they have closed their mind to the possibility that there is a better answer.

I can believe that there is life on other planets but i am not running around saying that you are incompetent for not believing the same thing as me.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...The Bible makes it clear G-d created the world in 6 literal, 24-hour days, and rested on the 7th: ..."

My Sunday school teacher who is the world's foremost authority on the Bible, told me that the Protestant Church split from the Catholic Church because of the big argument over whether or not the 6 literal, 24-hour days began the world's first "leap year".

She also told me that the Greek Orthodox Church split from the Catholics because of the big arguments they had over whether or not the 6 literal, 24-hour days began using Daylight Savings Time.

She also explained about how the different denominations split even further on the differences of opinion as to whether or not Genesis is describing Eastern Standard Time, Greenwich Mean Time, Pacific Time, etc...that's how the Methodists and Presbyterians and Baptists began.

The Unitarians wanted to be different so they voted to make Genesis the beginning of U.S. Naval Observatory Time.

Then, she explained how Albert Einstein discovered the atomic clock, and he set his wristwatch to it.

Religion can be most confusing unless one is armed with the facts.

[Dr. Dan]

rational thinkers are allowed to believe, i just make no statements that i know anything.

Religious people that believe in G-d do i do not have an issue with.  Its people who know it exists that bother me because it shows that they have closed their mind to the possibility that there is a better answer.

I can believe that there is life on other planets but i am not running around saying that you are incompetent for not believing the same thing as me.

You're mistaken..There is nothign better than Gd...However, it is how one believes in Gd...It's just that certain people are capable of climbing a mountain to a certain point...some can't climb so they see Gd one way. Others are great climbers..they see Gd at a different yet higher level.

[Lisa]

How do you personally allow for it?  Give us an example. 

[dejavu]

How do you personally allow for it?  Give us an example. 

By admitting that you may not be right and continuing to look for answers other than you own, much the same as i do.  Its just that currently we both believe certain things that are by no means the same but the path to get there was the same.

rational thinkers are allowed to believe, i just make no statements that i know anything.

Religious people that believe in G-d do i do not have an issue with.  Its people who know it exists that bother me because it shows that they have closed their mind to the possibility that there is a better answer.

I can believe that there is life on other planets but i am not running around saying that you are incompetent for not believing the same thing as me.

I personally allow for the possibility that the G-d of the Torah and my ancestors does not exist. Have you allowed for the possibility that He does exist?

read what i have written in this thread
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=13552.0

[dejavu]

At some point i do believe that we evolved from a single cellular organism.  Where did this single cell organism come from?  If you put the right materials together in the right quantities something is bound to happen.  Where did the materials come from?  Hydrogen.  Where did hydrogen come from?  A large explosion. 

I don't pretend to know all the answers.  I admit that what i think may have happened is probably wrong.  I just strongly believe that because i cant figure out how it happened, that that necessarily means that there is a higher power.  I am blissful in knowing that i am ignorant to the correct answer because i have an open enough mind to realize that none of the answers have reasonable support under a microscope.

I am not saying that i am right and you are wrong... I am saying you think this and i don't know but i don't believe what you believe.

So i admit that a god could exist i just dont believe that it did.

That answer your question now?

[Rubystars]

i turned elsewhere like evolution and the big bang theory. 

Evolution and the big bang theory are NOT anti-religious or anti-God. They're theories about natural processes and physical realities based on physical or measurable evidence. They imply nothing about the existence or non-existence of God.

Here's a quote from Darwin himself:
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."

Evolution obviously does not rule out a creator on its own, even if he did choose to be agnostic later in his life.

The Big Bang theory is actually the best option for theists, in my opinion, because it allows for a definite beginning to the universe.

Another reason for my loss of faith was the fact that religion (by this i will mean Christianity because it is the one that i have actually been a part of) has seemingly been able to adapt to the facts of the day.  An example of this is when the world was flat G-d was in the heavens and the devil was in the ground however once it was realized that the world was flat it became metaphorical.  Or the fact that things such as Limbo used to exist until recently when the Vatican made an announcement that it did not exist.

I'm not a Catholic (I'm non-denominational), so I can't explain a lot of the things they believe or don't believe in, but I do think that a study of nature should inform us in spiritual matters to some degree. The earliest scientists, "natural philosophers" pursued their interest as exploring God's creations.

But this is not what this argument was supposed to be about i would like to keep it somewhat focused on the foreign policy questions that i originally posed and not an argument on religion because i am a firm believer that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want and that i should not impose my religious views on others because that should be a personal relationship between yourself and whatever you consider to be a higher power. 

You were the one who made your atheism relevant by bringing it up. I've been friends with atheists before even though I feel that they're misguided so I definitely don't hate atheists. I just think you should rethink the reasons why you fell away from faith because they seem to be a bit shaky.
 

With that in mind i apologize for starting this thread so close to the sabbath i was unaware that this site went into maintenance during that period.

Most of the people here aren't Jewish but the forum shuts down on the Sabbath to not encourage the Jewish posters to sin by breaking Sabbath on this forum. It makes sense. This is after all "Jewish Task Force".

[dejavu]

i turned elsewhere like evolution and the big bang theory. 

Evolution and the big bang theory are NOT anti-religious or anti-G-d. They're theories about natural processes and physical realities based on physical or measurable evidence. They imply nothing about the existence or non-existence of G-d.

Here's a quote from Darwin himself:
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."

Evolution obviously does not rule out a creator on its own, even if he did choose to be agnostic later in his life.

The Big Bang theory is actually the best option for theists, in my opinion, because it allows for a definite beginning to the universe.

Another reason for my loss of faith was the fact that religion (by this i will mean Christianity because it is the one that i have actually been a part of) has seemingly been able to adapt to the facts of the day.  An example of this is when the world was flat G-d was in the heavens and the devil was in the ground however once it was realized that the world was flat it became metaphorical.  Or the fact that things such as Limbo used to exist until recently when the Vatican made an announcement that it did not exist.

I'm not a Catholic (I'm non-denominational), so I can't explain a lot of the things they believe or don't believe in, but I do think that a study of nature should inform us in spiritual matters to some degree. The earliest scientists, "natural philosophers" pursued their interest as exploring G-d's creations.

But this is not what this argument was supposed to be about i would like to keep it somewhat focused on the foreign policy questions that i originally posed and not an argument on religion because i am a firm believer that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want and that i should not impose my religious views on others because that should be a personal relationship between yourself and whatever you consider to be a higher power.

You were the one who made your atheism relevant by bringing it up. I've been friends with atheists before even though I feel that they're misguided so I definitely don't hate atheists. I just think you should rethink the reasons why you fell away from faith because they seem to be a bit shaky.
 

With that in mind i apologize for starting this thread so close to the sabbath i was unaware that this site went into maintenance during that period.

Most of the people here aren't Jewish but the forum shuts down on the Sabbath to not encourage the Jewish posters to sin by breaking Sabbath on this forum. It makes sense. This is after all "Jewish Task Force".

As for evolution and the big bang theory i disagree that they can exist with the messages in Judeo-Christian religions because according to the current doctrine of intelligent design everything is exactly as it was intended to be and the world started when god decided for it to.  The big bang theory is a slap in the face to religion because it states that the world was created in an explosion.  According to the first day of creation the earth was already there in its current form... It mentions nothing of the creation of earth only that the earth was there and it got lit up.

The First Day
The first recorded Words of God that we have are "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3 NIV). The sun was already shining brightly, but God made the earth's thick new atmosphere allow diffuse light to penetrate to the surface. And so it was that the light was made separate from darkness. The first day of earth's creation was literally the first "day" as someone on earth's surface would experience it - a period of opaque light, and a period of darkness. (Genesis 1:3-5)

The Second Day
The separation of the waters. There was yet no liquid water, no oceans. All of the water was in the form of a vapor, a worldwide super-fog, extending a number of kilometers/miles up from the very hot (above the boiling temperature of water) bare-rock earth's surface (the earth's core remains molten right to the present day). God's "hovering over the waters" in verse 2 describes His being above that gaseous-water atmosphere, not a liquid ocean. God then caused most of the water to condense onto the cooling earth which simultaneously formed a whole-planet ocean and cleared the sky. (Genesis 1:6-8)

Earth The Third Day
The first appearance of dry ground. The further cooling of the surface set in motion a process of natural contraction, uplifting and motion of the crust (the process continues today, called "plate tectonics"). The earth changed from a smooth one-level molten "cue ball" to a planet with an irregular surface with ocean basins and continental landmasses. With dry ground available, the first plants were made to grow in great abundance. (Genesis 1:9-13)

The Fourth Day
With the sky now clear, the sun, moon and stars were dependably visible. They were to "serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years." The sun marked the day (sunset to sunset), the moon the month (new moon to new moon), and the stars the seasons (constellations are seen in particular seasons e.g. "Orion" is visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, which is summer in the southern hemisphere). (Genesis 1:14-19)

The Fifth Day
Great numbers of birds and sea creatures. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." (Genesis 1:20-23)

The Sixth Day
Vast numbers of land animals. Man. From the man, woman (humans today are just now discovering how to genetically alter fertilized embryos, and even to create one human from the tissue of another - known as "cloning"). (Genesis 1:24-31)

The Seventh Day
The Sabbath Day. "By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested [or ceased] from all the work of creating that He had done." The day that is the basis for The Fourth Commandment. (Genesis 2:2-3)

You are correct infact that darwin was actually a Christian when he came up with the theories of evolution but that does not change the fact that they are not accepted as part of intelligent design which is the current creationist doctrine.

Also the reason that i brought up my religious beliefs into the argument is because it is a jewish website and we are talking about Israel which is considered a holy land to their religion and therefore it is extremely relevant.  Although it is relevant i did not want it to be the focus of the argument because it takes away from the larger problem.

As for the maintenance period i was just stating that i understood why it was happening and apologised for starting a controversial topic so close to the sabbath period where people had to think about what they wanted to say but were not allowed to type it.  I understand how you can be passionate about a subject.

[dejavu]

At some point i do believe that we evolved from a single cellular organism.  Where did this single cell organism come from?  If you put the right materials together in the right quantities something is bound to happen.  Where did the materials come from?  Hydrogen.  Where did hydrogen come from?  A large explosion. 

I don't pretend to know all the answers.  I admit that what i think may have happened is probably wrong.  I just strongly believe that because i cant figure out how it happened, that that necessarily means that there is a higher power.  I am blissful in knowing that i am ignorant to the correct answer because i have an open enough mind to realize that none of the answers have reasonable support under a microscope.

I am not saying that i am right and you are wrong... I am saying you think this and i don't know but i don't believe what you believe.

So i admit that a G-d could exist i just dont believe that it did.

That answer your question now?

Thanks for the answer; now we're getting somewhere. It proves that you are not the "athiest" you say you are, just an agnostic. Lack of knowledge is different than outright rebellion, for if you had a greater measure of belief, you would accept upon yourself the Seven Laws of Noah (which include the belief in G-d and not to blasphem His Name). Your kind of attitude towards G-d is of course considered incorrect, but not wicked, at least by Jewish standards.

You are absolutely correct however when i explain to most people that i am agnostic most people do not know what that means so it is more convenient to state that i am atheist because at least people then know where my beliefs lie.

[igo]

You guy's, I respect your opinions, but I don't know where your getting your ideas from? Either the universe was designed, or it came about by random chance. These are the only options.

I'm surprised SOME of you do NOT believe G-d exists, and a few who do believe, think G-d (could) have used evolution to make everything. WOW! I just want you to know the evolution theory is in complete contradiction to what the Bible teaches. Just so you know that. And there is absolutely no proof it took place. A (g)od that has to use suffering, misfits, death, a (g)od that doesn't know what he wants the first time and can't make it right in six days like He said, that is a retarded (g)od. I would not worship that one at all. [Such a (g)od is] Certainly not the G-d of the Bible.

The Bible makes it very clear G-d created the world in 6 literal, 24-hour days, and rested on the 7th:

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day." Exodus 20:11

G-d took six days, instead of a single instant, to finish His work of creating and making all things to be a model for humanity (Genesis 2:1-3). G-d's week was of precisely the same duration and pattern as man's regular week.

As far as the Greek Orthodox Church split from the Catholics, this denomination splitting from that one, sorry, I could care less. All I care about is what G-d's Word says and not some branch of the Church. Good! Let em' go! Who needs them! The Bible's simplest interpretation is for a young earth creation account. A person cannot just ignore part of the Scripture and still claim to believe the Bible.

Have any of you ever heard of Irreducible Complexity? Irreducible Complexity means that something requires all its parts in order to function, so therefore it couldn't have possibly evolved. A good example is the eye. Or the Flagellum bacteria.

Check this out: There is this little nanotechnology machine far beyond the state of the art: a microminiaturized rotary motor and propeller system that drives a tiny vessel through liquid. The engine and drive mechanism are composed of 40 parts, including a rotor, stator, driveshaft, bushings, universal joint, and flexible propeller. The engine is powered by a flow of ions, can rotate at up to 100,000 RPM ... and can reverse direction in a quarter of a rotation. The system comes with an automatic feedback control mechanism. The engine itself is about 1/100,000th of an inch wide -- far smaller than can be seen by the human eye. Let me introduce to you a certain motorized bacteria that reveal immense engineering complexity. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY this could have evolved. IMPOSSIBLE. This is proof of a Creator.

Evolution's Nightmare & Demise.

The Tiny Flagellar Motor of Escherichia coli (E coli Bacteria)


Have a nice day/night.

Ciao.

[dejavu]

You still seem to believe the fallacy that because you cant explain something that proves that there is a higher power.  The only thing that this proves is that you cant explain it.

[igo]

Dejavu wrote, "You still seem to believe the fallacy that because you cant explain
something that proves that there is a higher power.  The only thing that this proves
is that you cant explain it."

You keep convincing yourself of that Dejavu. 

I just gave you proof of creation.

The Tiny Motor of the E coli Bacteria


This bacteria could not have made itself. Yet, you come up with the comment
above? I'm sorry, but that is not even reasonable statement. Hmm, maybe you
don't even think we are here right now. Maybe this is aaaaaaalll just a dream. 

Using your logic, if I can't prove who made your car, it doesn't prove someone
made it, all it proves is that I cant explain it. Yeah! Okaaaaaaaay.

This just in: Dejavu, your car just didn't make itself out of nothing. It had a Maker.
Just like that motorized bacteria in the video.

I'm curious. Have you even studied the Bible Dejavu? This seems to me a subject
you don't want to be wrong about.

"I (G-d) have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have
stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded." Isaiah 45:12

[dejavu]

Dejavu wrote, "You still seem to believe the fallacy that because you cant explain
something that proves that there is a higher power.  The only thing that this proves
is that you cant explain it."

You keep convincing yourself of that Dejavu. 

Using your logic if I am unable to prove who made your car, this doesn't prove
someone made it, all it proves is that I cant explain it.

Have you even studied the Bible Dejavu? I'm just curious. Why do you seem so
willing to close your mind to it?

Why yes i actually have studied the bible as part of my confirmation in the Lutheran Church.  In fact it was reading the bible and asking questions about what i had read that led to my loss of faith. 

Also im not the one with the closed mind here i have admitted that i could be wrong i just would perfer not to proclaim that i know anything because there is no way to know.  Unless you want to put all of your faith in a book that was written by human beings but somehow divinely inspired.