ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

[OdKahaneChai]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

[OdKahaneChai]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

[OdKahaneChai]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael?  There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael?  There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.

OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.

This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!

[OdKahaneChai]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael?  There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.

OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.

This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!

Not true.  He was opposed to a Jewish government in Israel, not Jews in Israel.

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael?  There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.

OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.

This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!

Not true.  He was opposed to a Jewish government in Israel, not Jews in Israel.

Read his sefer VaYoel Moshe, Maamar Yishuv Eretz Yisrael.

In it he claims that only a handful of Jews should go to Israel and that it is assur for more than a few elderly Jews to live there.

That's what he says. Look it up.

And either way, if he opposes a Jewish state, he wants jews to put their faith in a miracle from G-d and that has always led to annihilation.

[Christian Zionist]

Very informative and educational...


I found this in the Wikipedia

"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".

Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?

Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?

I found this in

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm

claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism?  Was that true?  Did the Lubavitcher position change later?

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist.  Just for my own education I am asking these questions.

Thanks!

[judeanoncapta]

Very informative and educational...


I found this in the Wikipedia

"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".

Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?

Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?

I found this in

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm

claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism?  Was that true?  Did the Lubavitcher position change later?

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist.  Just for my own education I am asking these questions.

Thanks!

The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.

He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.

Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Very informative and educational...


I found this in the Wikipedia

"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".

Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?

Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?

I found this in

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm

claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism?  Was that true?  Did the Lubavitcher position change later?

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist.  Just for my own education I am asking these questions.

Thanks!

The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.

He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.

Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.

 Moving to Israel and supporting the Zionistic movement are different things. The Vina Gaon's student (in KOL Hator) writes about the movement to Israel as being the job of Ben Yosef, but it also as being taken over and then done by the eruv rav.
 I dont think that their were a substantial amount of Religious Jews who have supported the zionistic movement, but settling the land is different from this.

[judeanoncapta]

Very informative and educational...


I found this in the Wikipedia

"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".

Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?

Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?

I found this in

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm

claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism?  Was that true?  Did the Lubavitcher position change later?

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist.  Just for my own education I am asking these questions.

Thanks!

The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.

He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.

Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.

 Moving to Israel and supporting the Zionistic movement are different things. The Vina Gaon's student (in KOL Hator) writes about the movement to Israel as being the job of Ben Yosef, but it also as being taken over and then done by the eruv rav.
 I dont think that their were a substantial amount of Religious Jews who have supported the zionistic movement, but settling the land is different from this.

Actually there were quite alot of religious Jews who did support the Zionist movement. Especially students of the Vilna Gaon.

Chassidim, there were very few. Most were anti-zionist.

Although the Gerrer Rebbe said that Rav Kook was the Gadol HaDor.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Who? Not the Hassidim, neither the Litvish nor the Sefardim. Just the Kookniks, and on condition that the secular regime temporarily holds power, because at the time it did promote 1 positive thing- which was settling the land.

[OdKahaneChai]

Very informative and educational...


I found this in the Wikipedia

"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".

Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?

Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?

I found this in

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm

claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism?  Was that true?  Did the Lubavitcher position change later?

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist.  Just for my own education I am asking these questions.

Thanks!

First of all the Vilna Gaon, A"H, told his Talmidim to settle in Eretz Yisroel, but there was no real idea of "Zionism" at the time.   And the Rebbe Rashab was against political Zionism because he saw it as, and it at the time was, a Secular movement that was replacing Torah with Nationalism.  But the Rebbe (the most recent one) was certainly not against Zionism (Religious Zionism, that is).

[Christian Zionist]

Thanks guys for the explanations!

Is there any verse in the Talmud encouraging Jews to settle in Israel?

What did famous sages like Rambam, Ramban, Rashi and other commentators say about the establishment of a religious Zionist state in Israel?

[OdKahaneChai]

Thanks guys for the explanations!

Is there any verse in the Talmud encouraging Jews to settle in Israel?

What did famous sages like Rambam, Ramban, Rashi and other commentators say about the establishment of a religious Zionist state in Israel?

To my knowledge none of the Rishonim wrote about it.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Thanks guys for the explanations!

Is there any verse in the Talmud encouraging Jews to settle in Israel?

Yes many.

[jdl4ever]

The Rambam was very encouraging and extremely Kahanist like and R' Kahane quoted the Rambam a lot.  The Rambam wrote that if a leader gathers the Jews together in Israel and tells them to go fight their enemies and conquer the land they must listen to him and obey; and consider him with the presumption that he is the Massiah.  Rabbi Akivah who was one of the most famous Rabbis of the Talmud was the main supporter of the Bar Kochba revolt against Rome in Israel.

[OdKahaneChai]

The Rambam was very encouraging and extremely Kahanist like and R' Kahane quoted the Rambam a lot.  The Rambam wrote that if a leader gathers the Jews together in Israel and tells them to go fight their enemies and conquer the land they must listen to him and obey; and consider him with the presumption that he is the Massiah.  Rabbi Akivah who was one of the most famous Rabbis of the Talmud was the main supporter of the Bar Kochba revolt against Rome in Israel.

Until he killed Rabbi Elazar, after which R' Akivah realized that Bar Kochba had failed in his mission as Moshiach.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

 Jeremiah said, “They [Israel, the defeated nation] shall be carried to Babylon and shall remain there [in the Diaspora] until the day I [G-d] remember them” (Jeremiah 27:22). To Rabbi Judah this meant, “Whoever goes up [returns] from Babylon [the Diaspora] to Israel transgresses the positive commandment of the Torah” (Ketubot 111a).

[takebackourtemple]

   Using the term "Ultra-Orthodox Jew" is like using the term "radical Islam". Either you practice Judaism and follow the Torah or you practice something else. Whether we agree or disagree with all the subtle customs and traditions that often cloud the fact that we are all Jews, going against Israel is going against G-d and is as far away from Judaism as you can get. Instead of using the term "Ultra-Orthodox", it is probably best to call them by the town in Europe that they still think they live in.

[judeanoncapta]

He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more  .  I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower. 

I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.

But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.

There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.

Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.

You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.

First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim?  Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.

How do you know it was valid?

What proof do you have?

No, the question is what proof do you have?  You're the one making the accusation.  The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha.  That's a perfectly valid opinion.

Nothing valid about it.

There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.

No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.

So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.

 Jeremiah said, “They [Israel, the defeated nation] shall be carried to Babylon and shall remain there [in the Diaspora] until the day I [G-d] remember them” (Jeremiah 27:22). To Rabbi Judah this meant, “Whoever goes up [returns] from Babylon [the Diaspora] to Israel transgresses the positive commandment of the Torah” (Ketubot 111a).

Right and rabbi zera disobeyed him and made aliyah because his rabbi, rabbi yehudah was wrong and his opinion is not the pshat of that pasuk and is not the halakha and is also impossible because commandments from nach are not considered d'oraitha.

Tzvi, there were definitely opinions like this in the Bavli talmudh. But they are not the halakha so quoting them the way you do is facetious.

[judeanoncapta]

   Using the term "Ultra-Orthodox Jew" is like using the term "radical Islam". Either you practice Judaism and follow the Torah or you practice something else. Whether we agree or disagree with all the subtle customs and traditions that often cloud the fact that we are all Jews, going against Israel is going against G-d and is as far away from Judaism as you can get. Instead of using the term "Ultra-Orthodox", it is probably best to call them by the town in Europe that they still think they live in.

OOOOOOH, SICK BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dexter]