Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on January 15, 2008, 03:13:04 AM ---Very informative and educational...
I found this in the Wikipedia
"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".
Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?
Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?
I found this in
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm
claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism? Was that true? Did the Lubavitcher position change later?
BTW, don't get me wrong. I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist. Just for my own education I am asking these questions.
Thanks!
--- End quote ---
The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.
He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.
Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 15, 2008, 11:17:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on January 15, 2008, 03:13:04 AM ---Very informative and educational...
I found this in the Wikipedia
"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".
Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?
Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?
I found this in
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm
claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism? Was that true? Did the Lubavitcher position change later?
BTW, don't get me wrong. I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist. Just for my own education I am asking these questions.
Thanks!
--- End quote ---
The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.
He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.
Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.
--- End quote ---
Moving to Israel and supporting the Zionistic movement are different things. The Vina Gaon's student (in KOL Hator) writes about the movement to Israel as being the job of Ben Yosef, but it also as being taken over and then done by the eruv rav.
I dont think that their were a substantial amount of Religious Jews who have supported the zionistic movement, but settling the land is different from this.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 15, 2008, 02:10:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 15, 2008, 11:17:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on January 15, 2008, 03:13:04 AM ---Very informative and educational...
I found this in the Wikipedia
"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".
Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?
Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?
I found this in
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm
claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism? Was that true? Did the Lubavitcher position change later?
BTW, don't get me wrong. I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist. Just for my own education I am asking these questions.
Thanks!
--- End quote ---
The Vilna Gaon was not alive when Zionism started although the founder of Chovevei Zion(Lovers of Zion which was a proto-Zionist group) was started by Rabbi Naftali Ssvi Yehudha Berlin Also known as the Netziv who was the head of the yeshiva that he started before he died. One can possibly assume his feelings from what his major students did.
He also told his students to move to Israel long before anyone in the Jewish world was even speaking about this and he enouraged people to move en masse. So that sounds fairly Zionist to me.
Lubavitch was definitely against Zionism before the state was founded. The most recent Rebbe changed the Lubavitch position on Zionism radically.
--- End quote ---
Moving to Israel and supporting the Zionistic movement are different things. The Vina Gaon's student (in KOL Hator) writes about the movement to Israel as being the job of Ben Yosef, but it also as being taken over and then done by the eruv rav.
I dont think that their were a substantial amount of Religious Jews who have supported the zionistic movement, but settling the land is different from this.
--- End quote ---
Actually there were quite alot of religious Jews who did support the Zionist movement. Especially students of the Vilna Gaon.
Chassidim, there were very few. Most were anti-zionist.
Although the Gerrer Rebbe said that Rav Kook was the Gadol HaDor.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Who? Not the Hassidim, neither the Litvish nor the Sefardim. Just the Kookniks, and on condition that the secular regime temporarily holds power, because at the time it did promote 1 positive thing- which was settling the land.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on January 15, 2008, 03:13:04 AM ---Very informative and educational...
I found this in the Wikipedia
"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".
Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?
Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?
I found this in
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm
claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism? Was that true? Did the Lubavitcher position change later?
BTW, don't get me wrong. I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist. Just for my own education I am asking these questions.
Thanks!
--- End quote ---
First of all the Vilna Gaon, A"H, told his Talmidim to settle in Eretz Yisroel, but there was no real idea of "Zionism" at the time. And the Rebbe Rashab was against political Zionism because he saw it as, and it at the time was, a Secular movement that was replacing Torah with Nationalism. But the Rebbe (the most recent one) was certainly not against Zionism (Religious Zionism, that is).
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