Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael? There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 14, 2008, 04:08:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael? There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.
--- End quote ---
OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.
This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 10:20:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 14, 2008, 04:08:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael? There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.
--- End quote ---
OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.
This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Not true. He was opposed to a Jewish government in Israel, not Jews in Israel.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 14, 2008, 10:21:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 10:20:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 14, 2008, 04:08:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Who ever said you can't live in Eretz Yisrael? There are plenty of Satmarers in Eretz Yisrael.
--- End quote ---
OdKahaneChai, The Satmar Rebbe made the manifestly insane claim that while it is a commandment from the Torah for each and every Jew to live in Eress Yisrael, it is a grave sin if more than a handful of jews actually fulfill this commandment.
This is a valid opinion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Not true. He was opposed to a Jewish government in Israel, not Jews in Israel.
--- End quote ---
Read his sefer VaYoel Moshe, Maamar Yishuv Eretz Yisrael.
In it he claims that only a handful of Jews should go to Israel and that it is assur for more than a few elderly Jews to live there.
That's what he says. Look it up.
And either way, if he opposes a Jewish state, he wants jews to put their faith in a miracle from G-d and that has always led to annihilation.
Christian Zionist:
Very informative and educational...
I found this in the Wikipedia
"The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim".
Does it mean Vilna Gaon was anti-Zionist too?
Also what was the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn's postition on Zionism?
I found this in
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%20on%20Zionism.htm
claiming that Lubavitcher Rebbe Shulem Schneersohn was against Zionism? Was that true? Did the Lubavitcher position change later?
BTW, don't get me wrong. I am a Zionist to the core and I believe Israel's right to "expand" rather than to exist. Just for my own education I am asking these questions.
Thanks!
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