Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Jeremiah said, “They [Israel, the defeated nation] shall be carried to Babylon and shall remain there [in the Diaspora] until the day I [G-d] remember them” (Jeremiah 27:22). To Rabbi Judah this meant, “Whoever goes up [returns] from Babylon [the Diaspora] to Israel transgresses the positive commandment of the Torah” (Ketubot 111a).
takebackourtemple:
Using the term "Ultra-Orthodox Jew" is like using the term "radical Islam". Either you practice Judaism and follow the Torah or you practice something else. Whether we agree or disagree with all the subtle customs and traditions that often cloud the fact that we are all Jews, going against Israel is going against G-d and is as far away from Judaism as you can get. Instead of using the term "Ultra-Orthodox", it is probably best to call them by the town in Europe that they still think they live in.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 15, 2008, 10:00:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 14, 2008, 01:24:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 13, 2008, 09:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 13, 2008, 05:32:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 12, 2008, 08:42:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 11, 2008, 12:06:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 10, 2008, 04:20:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
--- End quote ---
You obviously have never learned a single word of the Satmar Rebbe's. Otherwise you would understand why Haredim relate to the state the way they do.
--- End quote ---
First of all, who says the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L spoke for all Charedim? Second of all, while I don't agree with it, it is a completely valid opinion that he held.
--- End quote ---
How do you know it was valid?
What proof do you have?
--- End quote ---
No, the question is what proof do you have? You're the one making the accusation. The Satmar Rebbe, ZT"L, was a Posek, and he was in the minority and interpreted the "Three Oaths" as Halacha. That's a perfectly valid opinion.
--- End quote ---
Nothing valid about it.
There is Misswath Aseh d'oraitha to live and settle in Eretz Yisrael.
No Midrash can erase a Misswath Aseh.
So, NO, HIS OPINION IS NOT VALID.
--- End quote ---
Jeremiah said, “They [Israel, the defeated nation] shall be carried to Babylon and shall remain there [in the Diaspora] until the day I [G-d] remember them” (Jeremiah 27:22). To Rabbi Judah this meant, “Whoever goes up [returns] from Babylon [the Diaspora] to Israel transgresses the positive commandment of the Torah” (Ketubot 111a).
--- End quote ---
Right and rabbi zera disobeyed him and made aliyah because his rabbi, rabbi yehudah was wrong and his opinion is not the pshat of that pasuk and is not the halakha and is also impossible because commandments from nach are not considered d'oraitha.
Tzvi, there were definitely opinions like this in the Bavli talmudh. But they are not the halakha so quoting them the way you do is facetious.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: takebackourtemple on January 15, 2008, 10:15:23 PM --- Using the term "Ultra-Orthodox Jew" is like using the term "radical Islam". Either you practice Judaism and follow the Torah or you practice something else. Whether we agree or disagree with all the subtle customs and traditions that often cloud the fact that we are all Jews, going against Israel is going against G-d and is as far away from Judaism as you can get. Instead of using the term "Ultra-Orthodox", it is probably best to call them by the town in Europe that they still think they live in.
--- End quote ---
OOOOOOH, SICK BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dexter:
???
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