Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Adam, the first man on Earth.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 09:40:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:38:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 17, 2008, 09:34:28 PM ---Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them. Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well. The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.
--- End quote ---
Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc. Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.
--- End quote ---
bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.
--- End quote ---
Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.
Ari:
I'm confused.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:43:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 09:36:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:27:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 09:20:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:15:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on January 17, 2008, 09:01:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 17, 2008, 08:26:53 PM ---The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion. It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted". And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants". The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man". This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam. This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam. The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.
Adam was a unique creation that G-d made. He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity. He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals.
--- End quote ---
That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.
See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.
--- End quote ---
And Chamish is credible becuase ??? . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).
--- End quote ---
I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...
Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...
--- End quote ---
It isn't valid because in one book, the theories say 4 billion years and another 16 billion. They also come up with different theories of which they are sure is correct, untile someone else says no their way is correct, so who should we follow.
--- End quote ---
We follow everyone with a grain of salt...Just like inventions...none are ever the best because they keep improving themselves.
--- End quote ---
No, but if today something as science is said to be fact, and for example they say 4 billion, in one year they will say no its 16 billion, so 8 billion years passed in oe year?
Many people automatically assume that what science says is correct, are their legitimate aspects os science, yes, but we cant rely on the whole evolution, age of universe, and those type of subjects when even they do not agree with eachother (and in some cases themselves- when they want to start selling a new book- that Hopkins guy did just that).
--- End quote ---
Science is limited relative to Gd's grace. We can prove theories and facts to be wrong by doing experiments and then prove those experiments wrong by doing other experiments. The same can be said of our evolution of how we perceive Gd and the Bible. As we understand history and the world, we evolve our perception of what Gd really is and what the Torah is really saying.
It's not for us to rely on evolution or a literal translation of the Bible..the point here is that Gd exists and we need to do our best to be decent people and make the world a better place. All the rest is commentary.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:44:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 09:40:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:38:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 17, 2008, 09:34:28 PM ---Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them. Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well. The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.
--- End quote ---
Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc. Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.
--- End quote ---
bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.
--- End quote ---
Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.
--- End quote ---
yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 10:58:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:44:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 17, 2008, 09:40:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 17, 2008, 09:38:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 17, 2008, 09:34:28 PM ---Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them. Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well. The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.
--- End quote ---
Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc. Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.
--- End quote ---
bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.
--- End quote ---
Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.
--- End quote ---
yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.
--- End quote ---
So then you officially do not concider yourself Orthodox?
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