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Offline DALMACIJA

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The Vatican and the Serbs
« on: January 27, 2008, 03:02:52 AM »
ARCHIVES > APRIL 4, 2000 > PERSPECTIVES > Article View
Catholic Church's lack of apology for Balkan atrocities is unpardonable
By Brad Klapper
GUEST COLUMNIST
The news that the Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies to the world's Jews is not surprising. Jewish individuals continue to hold significant positions of status in the international community, their influence in America remains very strong, and the nation of Israel has found its niche as an integral part of the world economy. For the Vatican, establishing better relations with this group is politically advantageous.

 
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The Serbs are a nation with which, in the present international situation, it is not strategic to ask for forgiveness. But regardless of the Serbs' new role in our political vocabulary as the arbitrarily ascribed enemy (quickly replacing Iraq), they deserve an examination into their history. Such research will show that they were subject to one of the greatest injustices in the history of modern man.

At the center of this horror lies the Catholic Church. Whereas in the Jewish Holocaust of 1941-1945 the Vatican and high members of the Catholic Church were guilty of continued silence while in full knowledge of the atrocities, and of tacit compliance with Nazi authorities, they were responsible for far more in the Balkan genocide of the same era.

During World War II, the Croatian Fascist Party (Ustasha), in conjunction with Yugoslavia's Nazi occupiers, embarked on a campaign of mass murder. Included in the selection were the typical Nazi "enemies" such as Jews, Gypsies and Communists. But remarkably, in the Balkans, the Eastern Orthodox Serbs comprised the largest single group exterminated. Jasenovac, located in Croatia and the third largest death camp in all Europe, was the largest site for the implementation of this genocide.

Here, the genocide was not just carried out by German officials, but was run almost exclusively by the Croatians themselves. Local Franciscan monks took part in the killings as well. A famous example is Father Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, known without affection to inmates as "Brother Devil." There was no gas chamber at Jasenovac. Here, the murderers, who included Franciscan monks, killed through hanging, shooting and heating to death: what Majstorovic referred to with Christian eloquence as "slaughtering."

The Croatian Catholic Church went beyond the silent acquiescence of other institutions to fully embrace the genocide. Not just the Franciscan order, but also church officials at the highest levels, supported the mass murder. The church legitimized the Ustasha administration and its leader Anton Pavelic.

Cardinal Stepinac, the highest-ranking Catholic in the Balkans, was especially supportive of the regime. He defended the Croatian Fascist State to Pius XII himself, and in letters left behind, showed his backing for the policy of forced conversion. As Richard West, noted biographer of Tito, declares: "The one man with the authority to put a stop to the Ustasha terror, the Archbishop of Zagreb Alojzie Stepinac, continued to give both public and private support to Pavelic and his regime."

What is the present position of the Vatican with regard to Cardinal Stepinac and to the role of the Catholic Church in the Balkan genocide? According to Pope John Paul II, Stepinac "was a man of intrepid courage, the Cardinal remained constant in his adherence to the Gospel and loyalty to the Apostolic Chair." In many other utterances the pope has supported the canonization of Stepinac, and in 1994 he visited his tomb in Zagreb. To John Paul II, Stepinac was "the fortress of the Church amongst Croats," and its "most illustrious figure ... from a long series of men and women who expressed themselves by living Christian virtues."

Had the same been said of a well-known sympathizer of Hitler and the Nazis the world would be in uproar. In the case of Stepinac, however, much of the world has conveniently disregarded this forgettable page in human history. The lack of historical discipline has become so pervasive in the Western media that it is now unjust.

This injustice is clear through claims that World War I was the product of Serbian expansionism, thus "proving" Serbia an inherently militaristic nation, for example, and that

World War II witnessed the mass murder of Croats and Bosnians by Serbs. Perhaps this is just a matter of ignorance. Or, maybe, simply poor editing. But the fact remains that these mistakes are simply inexcusable. I have never heard a CNN moderator accuse the Jews of mass murder of Germans during the Holocaust. Nevertheless, such parallel statements are being repeatedly made about the Serbs.

If it were motives of guilt that have driven the Vatican to these overtures, the Vatican would do well to start acknowledging its key role in the atrocities in the Balkans. Unfortunately, this is not the case. In Yugoslavia, murder and genocide were not just overlooked but vociferously supported by the Croatian Catholic Church's key members. Even more terrible, members of the hierarchy actively participated in the killings themselves.

But unfortunately for the Serbs (and perhaps, fortunately for the Vatican), they are of no importance on the international scene. In fact, regardless of what occurred, any overtures to Serbian communities would be looked upon unfavorably by the Western nations; the nation of Serbia cannot be allowed to have any sympathy. Any positive public relations for this nation potentially weaken the Western media's monopolistic control on Balkan issues. Any examination of the past threatens to expose the media's historical manipulation, and its numerous (and carefully-planned?) oversights.

The past victimization of Serbia must be minimized. That is the rhetoric of the present political situation. It is a vocabulary of humanitarianism shrouding the realpolitik that the Vatican and the liberal democracies of the West employ when it comes to dealing with the atrocities of history. As a result we see how the Vatican has done well to avoid such an unnecessary overture.
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This article is © 2008 The Bi-College News. The material on this page is free for personal or educational use, but may not be reproduced, reprinted, republished, redistributed, or otherwise transmitted to a third party without the express written permission of The Bi-College News, 370 Lancaster Ave, Haverford, PA 19041.

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Source: http://www.biconews.com/article/view/4120

Offline Husar

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 05:31:08 AM »
A long "love story"...
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 07:00:09 AM »
Quote
Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies

Oh yes like that fixes everything  ::)

Offline Husar

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 07:23:26 AM »
Quote
Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies

Oh yes like that fixes everything  ::)

NEVER trust vatican.

Now, I bite my tongue,
so that I get not annoyed
for daring saying this:

 :-X

By the way, "fidei defensor",
you seem to not trust the vatican neither,
yet, your nick is very "vaticannoïd"...

 ???
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 07:41:01 AM »
Quote
Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies

Oh yes like that fixes everything  ::)

NEVER trust vatican.

Now, I bite my tongue,
so that I get not annoyed
for daring saying this:

 :-X

By the way, "fidei defensor",
you seem to not trust the vatican neither,
yet, your nick is very "vaticannoïd"...

 ???

Husar lol its me Skippy  ;)

Defender of the faith yes  ;D

Offline AussieJTFer

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 07:45:36 AM »
The current pope recently stated that the catholic church was correct in persecuting Galileo for stating that the earth was not the centre of the universe. This pope seems to be undoing alot of the work that his predecessor did in trying to get the catholic church to acknowledge its vicious past. He did make some good remarks against islam only to back-pedal on them when the muzzies typically went spastic.

Offline Husar

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 07:49:13 AM »
Quote
Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies

Oh yes like that fixes everything  ::)

NEVER trust vatican.

Now, I bite my tongue,
so that I get not annoyed
for daring saying this:

 :-X

By the way, "fidei defensor",
you seem to not trust the vatican neither,
yet, your nick is very "vaticannoïd"...

 ???

Husar lol its me Skippy  ;)

Defender of the faith yes  ;D

Skippy !!!

 :) :) :)
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 08:07:48 AM »
Quote
Vatican has recently made a wave of apologies

Oh yes like that fixes everything  ::)

NEVER trust vatican.

Now, I bite my tongue,
so that I get not annoyed
for daring saying this:

 :-X

By the way, "fidei defensor",
you seem to not trust the vatican neither,
yet, your nick is very "vaticannoïd"...

 ???

Husar lol its me Skippy  ;)

Defender of the faith yes  ;D

Skippy !!!

 :) :) :)

 :) :) :-*

Offline Husar

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 09:18:06 AM »
 :-* :) :)
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 11:00:45 AM »
Skippy is confusing us. :/

Offline Zoran

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 03:59:31 PM »
He did make some good remarks against islam only to back-pedal on them when the muzzies typically went spastic.

Yeah, too bad it's "politically incorrect" to say anything bad about anyone's religion/country/etc.

What's next, you can't comment on someone's shoes or hair?

I take that back, what's next is Sharia law.

Offline JTFFan

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 04:03:30 PM »
He did make some good remarks against islam only to back-pedal on them when the muzzies typically went spastic.

Yeah, too bad it's "politically incorrect" to say anything bad about anyone's religion/country/etc.

What's next, you can't comment on someone's shoes or hair?

I take that back, what's next is Sharia law.

yes, sharia law and then back to business ;D :o

Offline Lisa

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 04:07:23 PM »
You guys, we're obviously not going to agree with everything this current pope says or does, and most likely, neither will our Catholic members. 

However, I don't want this to turn into another Catholic bashing thread.  If I see any of that, I'll lock this thread. 

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2008, 04:14:37 PM »
There is no and there will not be any bashing of any collective groups of people.

The purpose is to talk about historical facts and that is all  :)

Offline JTFFan

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2008, 04:25:29 PM »
There is no and there will not be any bashing of any collective groups of people.

The purpose is to talk about historical facts and that is all  :)

Yes, thanks Dalmacija for explaining that ;)

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 05:48:41 PM »

Offline Jasmina

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 06:13:30 PM »
:-* :) :)

  Husar you love Skippy more than me?????? :o :o :o
     :::D :::D :::D
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline JTFFan

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2008, 06:14:31 PM »

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2008, 06:15:20 PM »

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2008, 04:49:11 AM »
There is no and there will not be any bashing of any collective groups of people.

The purpose is to talk about historical facts and that is all  :)

Yes, thanks Dalmacija for explaining that ;)

 O0

Offline Husar

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"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Husar

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Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2008, 05:49:42 AM »
Skippy is confusing us. :/

SWEET confusion, isn't it ?

 :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 05:52:45 AM by Husar »
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Husar

  • Ultimate JTFer
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  • Posts: 3240
  • I drink wine out of nazis' skulls.
Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2008, 05:51:21 AM »
You guys, we're obviously not going to agree with everything this current pope says or does, and most likely, neither will our Catholic members. 

However, I don't want this to turn into another Catholic bashing thread.  If I see any of that, I'll lock this thread. 

The pope agrees.

 ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 05:53:10 AM by Husar »
"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline JTFFan

  • Ultimate JTFer
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  • Posts: 3964
Re: The Vatican and the Serbs
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2008, 12:09:58 PM »
You guys, we're obviously not going to agree with everything this current pope says or does, and most likely, neither will our Catholic members. 

However, I don't want this to turn into another Catholic bashing thread.  If I see any of that, I'll lock this thread. 

The pope agrees.

 ;)

yes he does agree