What's YOUR ultimate Fantasy?

[Dr. Dan]

Unfortunately my fantasy is just that a fantasy, most of my family is dead.  Judging what can and can't be a reality is only for that poster.

no then that qualifies as a fantasy.

No it doesn't. If you don't believe in the resurrection of the dead then you're not even a believer in Judaism according to Rambam.
It's one of the 13 principles of faith.

Skippy will be reunited with her family. I have perfect faith in this.

Well, once it happens, then it'll happen..but we aren't referring to the after life...we are referring to this life...

yes, i do believe with perfect faith that resurrection and worlds to come will take place...It might becoem a reality in this lifetime..it might not become a reality in this lifetime...so for now we'll stick with the odds that it will not necessarily happen and live our lives out like we are supposed to and Gd intended us on doing.

So in Skippy's case...even though the resurrection can be a reality, we'll say, for now, since it hasnt' happened yet in the history of all life and living things, that what she said was a nice fantasy.

You really need to read the 13 principles Dr. Dan.

It says there you need to believe it's immanent. That it can happen today.
It's part of being a Jew that we believe this stuff.

Like i said, if i start thinking about this stuff possibly happening today, then I won't be able to live my life as Gd has intended for me to live.  It's like staring at the clock for the hand to change one minute and it takes forever.

So while the time passes, I'll keep myself busy with making this world a better place and do Gd's bidding and the righteous bidding. 
Moshiach will come..He'll come..It says he will..therefore, he will...So why be so impatient for him and wait and watch and wait and watch?  If he's going to come, then I'll let it be, I'll do my thing and there! Before you know it, he'll be here.

But since he hasn't come yet, nor has anything in the history of all life ever been resurrected, it is safe to say, in Skippy's case that her fantasy is really a fantasy and not a reality that will happen in this lifetime...And if the moshiach comes today, she's one lucky gal.

It's like, I can have fantasy that I have two beautiful girls next to me making love to me.  Sure, like the moshiach, it can in this lifetime, become a reality...but really..although it might bring great pleasure to me, for other reasons I wouldn't want this type fantasy to be a reality for me. I derive more pleasure with loving one woman who loves me back.

And so with the Moshiach...it is a fantasy that can become a reality in this lifetime.  However, i like living life and i like it that people die because then i miss them and when I miss them all of the things in this world also seem more beautiful.  Knowing that we are mortal, because we can die at anytime allows us to notice the beauty of the world.  So the same goes wtih teh concept of resurrection..it gives us hope to be reunited with those who we love who have passed on that we will see them again...and the hope of seeing them again makes our inevitable death a little easier..and sure, we will see them again either while we are alive..or once we die...but for now, it has to be a fantasy..just as one fantasizing about two beautiful women by their side can be a fantasy.  Both can happen today.

(i know that two beautiful women and moshiach are complete opposites..bad example, but i think you got my point)

[Dr. Dan]

BTW

What happened to my cheerleaders ?? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo , sack the administrator (just kidding).

They ran off with the Doc 

Oh ! Thats fine then 

Bahahahahahahahah!!!

[abdithefaithful]

It is encouraging to see such thought provoking discussion regarding this issue. Discussing both the "plain as day" facets of our enchanting faith, as well as its finer, softer and more abstract subtleties certainly makes for most interesting "cyber conversation". And to be quite frank, that's why I joined this message board, I knew in my heart of hearts that the folks who follow the mission of JTF must be of the highest moral and ethical caliber--- By just watching JTF's incredible cable access television programming, it's as clear as the woolly beard that God has placed on my face that this is THE place where folk's "fantasies" would be in tune with my strict principles and holy-motivated psyche. Yes, someday I do want to turn on that volatile electronic box we commonly call a "television set" and I want to see JTF being broadcast over every single gosh darn TV station in the nation-- Let the people finally hear THE TRUTH!!-- No more of the lies that our mainstream media repeatedly pounds into the softened skulls of society's naive and uninformed-- No more of the gratuitously sexually charged programs that seduce our vulnerable youth into performing unholy acts of sexual depravity and orgy behind the trees and bushes of our public schools-- No more of TV's gratuitous violence that prompts our children to wear their baggy jeans way down below their buttocks, clearly emulating "the look" of "prison culture" and becoming heartless "gang bangers"--- If JTF were broadcast over every single TV channel instead of all the other lewd and crude garbage that's become the accepted status quo, then at least society would have a "fighting chance" to defeat the corrosive clutches of the evil men and women who currently produce and control what appears on our family's television sets.

[Dr. Dan]

It is encouraging to see such thought provoking discussion regarding this issue. Discussing both the "plain as day" facets of our enchanting faith, as well as its finer, softer and more abstract subtleties certainly makes for most interesting "cyber conversation". And to be quite frank, that's why I joined this message board, I knew in my heart of hearts that the folks who follow the mission of JTF must be of the highest moral and ethical caliber--- By just watching JTF's incredible cable access television programming, it's as clear as the woolly beard that G-d has placed on my face that this is THE place where folk's "fantasies" would be in tune with my strict principles and holy-motivated psyche. Yes, someday I do want to turn on that volatile electronic box we commonly call a "television set" and I want to see JTF being broadcast over every single gosh darn TV station in the nation-- Let the people finally hear THE TRUTH!!-- No more of the lies that our mainstream media repeatedly pounds into the softened skulls of society's naive and uninformed-- No more of the gratuitously sexually charged programs that seduce our vulnerable youth into performing unholy acts of sexual depravity and orgy behind the trees and bushes of our public schools-- No more of TV's gratuitous violence that prompts our children to wear their baggy jeans way down below their buttocks, clearly emulating "the look" of "prison culture" and becoming heartless "gang bangers"--- If JTF were broadcast over every single TV channel instead of all the other lewd and crude garbage that's become the accepted status quo, then at least society would have a "fighting chance" to defeat the corrosive clutches of the evil men and women who currently produce and control what appears on our family's television sets.

See? that's another fantasy.

This whole country is not ready yet to suddenly see everything JTF.  JTF first needs to go to places where we know it will be more welcomed and then makes it's way into popularity in the other parts where there are the most evil people.  We first need to woo our friends before we woo our enemies.

[abdithefaithful]

It is encouraging to see such thought provoking discussion regarding this issue. Discussing both the "plain as day" facets of our enchanting faith, as well as its finer, softer and more abstract subtleties certainly makes for most interesting "cyber conversation". And to be quite frank, that's why I joined this message board, I knew in my heart of hearts that the folks who follow the mission of JTF must be of the highest moral and ethical caliber--- By just watching JTF's incredible cable access television programming, it's as clear as the woolly beard that G-d has placed on my face that this is THE place where folk's "fantasies" would be in tune with my strict principles and holy-motivated psyche. Yes, someday I do want to turn on that volatile electronic box we commonly call a "television set" and I want to see JTF being broadcast over every single gosh darn TV station in the nation-- Let the people finally hear THE TRUTH!!-- No more of the lies that our mainstream media repeatedly pounds into the softened skulls of society's naive and uninformed-- No more of the gratuitously sexually charged programs that seduce our vulnerable youth into performing unholy acts of sexual depravity and orgy behind the trees and bushes of our public schools-- No more of TV's gratuitous violence that prompts our children to wear their baggy jeans way down below their buttocks, clearly emulating "the look" of "prison culture" and becoming heartless "gang bangers"--- If JTF were broadcast over every single TV channel instead of all the other lewd and crude garbage that's become the accepted status quo, then at least society would have a "fighting chance" to defeat the corrosive clutches of the evil men and women who currently produce and control what appears on our family's television sets.

See? that's another fantasy.

This whole country is not ready yet to suddenly see everything JTF.  JTF first needs to go to places where we know it will be more welcomed and then makes it's way into popularity in the other parts where there are the most evil people.  We first need to woo our friends before we woo our enemies.

Point taken.

[Merkava]

What a nice thing to say, Merkava. Smiley I appreciate the compliment and still respect you whether we agree or disagree. Smiley

No worries ....you rock ! 

[Lubab]

Unfortunately my fantasy is just that a fantasy, most of my family is dead.  Judging what can and can't be a reality is only for that poster.

no then that qualifies as a fantasy.

No it doesn't. If you don't believe in the resurrection of the dead then you're not even a believer in Judaism according to Rambam.
It's one of the 13 principles of faith.

Skippy will be reunited with her family. I have perfect faith in this.

Well, once it happens, then it'll happen..but we aren't referring to the after life...we are referring to this life...

yes, i do believe with perfect faith that resurrection and worlds to come will take place...It might becoem a reality in this lifetime..it might not become a reality in this lifetime...so for now we'll stick with the odds that it will not necessarily happen and live our lives out like we are supposed to and Gd intended us on doing.

So in Skippy's case...even though the resurrection can be a reality, we'll say, for now, since it hasnt' happened yet in the history of all life and living things, that what she said was a nice fantasy.

You really need to read the 13 principles Dr. Dan.

It says there you need to believe it's immanent. That it can happen today.
It's part of being a Jew that we believe this stuff.

Like i said, if i start thinking about this stuff possibly happening today, then I won't be able to live my life as Gd has intended for me to live.  It's like staring at the clock for the hand to change one minute and it takes forever.

So while the time passes, I'll keep myself busy with making this world a better place and do Gd's bidding and the righteous bidding. 
Moshiach will come..He'll come..It says he will..therefore, he will...So why be so impatient for him and wait and watch and wait and watch?  If he's going to come, then I'll let it be, I'll do my thing and there! Before you know it, he'll be here.

But since he hasn't come yet, nor has anything in the history of all life ever been resurrected, it is safe to say, in Skippy's case that her fantasy is really a fantasy and not a reality that will happen in this lifetime...And if the moshiach comes today, she's one lucky gal.

It's like, I can have fantasy that I have two beautiful girls next to me making love to me.  Sure, like the moshiach, it can in this lifetime, become a reality...but really..although it might bring great pleasure to me, for other reasons I wouldn't want this type fantasy to be a reality for me. I derive more pleasure with loving one woman who loves me back.

And so with the Moshiach...it is a fantasy that can become a reality in this lifetime.  However, i like living life and i like it that people die because then i miss them and when I miss them all of the things in this world also seem more beautiful.  Knowing that we are mortal, because we can die at anytime allows us to notice the beauty of the world.  So the same goes wtih teh concept of resurrection..it gives us hope to be reunited with those who we love who have passed on that we will see them again...and the hope of seeing them again makes our inevitable death a little easier..and sure, we will see them again either while we are alive..or once we die...but for now, it has to be a fantasy..just as one fantasizing about two beautiful women by their side can be a fantasy.  Both can happen today.

(i know that two beautiful women and moshiach are complete opposites..bad example, but i think you got my point)

1. Why do you think that believing Moshiach will come today is a contradiction to "doing your thing". You think I sit around watching the clock for Moshiach to come? That's not what it's about. You need to be actively BRINGING Moshiach with making this world a better place. You can do that and still believe that every little good thing you do will bring Moshiach.

2. Things do get resurrected all the time. You and I both get ressurected each morning. It's not the same, but it's similar.
We're basically paralyzed dumb deaf and blind when we sleep then we get it all back in a flash each morning. It's a miracle. Only nobody pays attention to it.

3. Being with two fine women is not a contradiction to Moshiach at all. Not in the least bit.
I can explain this further on PM.

[newman]

Ultimate fantasy?

Putting every muSSlim on this planet (except Sarah) in a big microwave oven.

[MassuhDGoodName]

To replace the kibbutz system with The Plantation System!

[newman]

To replace the kibbutz system with The Plantation System!

Don't be so silly.

You can't have negros in Israel singing "tote dat barge, lift dat bail".

[abdithefaithful]

It appears that there is some genuine "heat" being generated in this thread... And needless to say, it is the open exchange of ideas and opinions (even if they occasionally do generate some "heat") that make this sacred message board so darn interesting for its many loyal members, readers and "lurkers" ("lurker" is a recently devised cyber term representing someone who reviews all the messages posted on a board but never actually posts on same board or actively participates themselves)... I assume there's probably a great number of cyber "lurkers" who constantly visit this board to observe what we're talking about and what our opinions are... Hopefully the many noble "fantasies" that we share here will work to help shape and influence all those many lurkers' opinions and views of the pertinent issues that we so politely and civilly discuss on these sacred pages. Hopefully it will help them grow to understand the "wise reasoning" behind our beliefs and opinions, and in some profound way, also work to help make this often volatile world in which we all live become a better place-- hmm, I guess THAT actually qualifies as a "fantasy" as well!

[Hail Columbia]

To love, and to be loved by a woman.

[Dr. Dan]

Unfortunately my fantasy is just that a fantasy, most of my family is dead.  Judging what can and can't be a reality is only for that poster.

no then that qualifies as a fantasy.

No it doesn't. If you don't believe in the resurrection of the dead then you're not even a believer in Judaism according to Rambam.
It's one of the 13 principles of faith.

Skippy will be reunited with her family. I have perfect faith in this.

Well, once it happens, then it'll happen..but we aren't referring to the after life...we are referring to this life...

yes, i do believe with perfect faith that resurrection and worlds to come will take place...It might becoem a reality in this lifetime..it might not become a reality in this lifetime...so for now we'll stick with the odds that it will not necessarily happen and live our lives out like we are supposed to and Gd intended us on doing.

So in Skippy's case...even though the resurrection can be a reality, we'll say, for now, since it hasnt' happened yet in the history of all life and living things, that what she said was a nice fantasy.

You really need to read the 13 principles Dr. Dan.

It says there you need to believe it's immanent. That it can happen today.
It's part of being a Jew that we believe this stuff.

Like i said, if i start thinking about this stuff possibly happening today, then I won't be able to live my life as Gd has intended for me to live.  It's like staring at the clock for the hand to change one minute and it takes forever.

So while the time passes, I'll keep myself busy with making this world a better place and do Gd's bidding and the righteous bidding. 
Moshiach will come..He'll come..It says he will..therefore, he will...So why be so impatient for him and wait and watch and wait and watch?  If he's going to come, then I'll let it be, I'll do my thing and there! Before you know it, he'll be here.

But since he hasn't come yet, nor has anything in the history of all life ever been resurrected, it is safe to say, in Skippy's case that her fantasy is really a fantasy and not a reality that will happen in this lifetime...And if the moshiach comes today, she's one lucky gal.

It's like, I can have fantasy that I have two beautiful girls next to me making love to me.  Sure, like the moshiach, it can in this lifetime, become a reality...but really..although it might bring great pleasure to me, for other reasons I wouldn't want this type fantasy to be a reality for me. I derive more pleasure with loving one woman who loves me back.

And so with the Moshiach...it is a fantasy that can become a reality in this lifetime.  However, i like living life and i like it that people die because then i miss them and when I miss them all of the things in this world also seem more beautiful.  Knowing that we are mortal, because we can die at anytime allows us to notice the beauty of the world.  So the same goes wtih teh concept of resurrection..it gives us hope to be reunited with those who we love who have passed on that we will see them again...and the hope of seeing them again makes our inevitable death a little easier..and sure, we will see them again either while we are alive..or once we die...but for now, it has to be a fantasy..just as one fantasizing about two beautiful women by their side can be a fantasy.  Both can happen today.

(i know that two beautiful women and moshiach are complete opposites..bad example, but i think you got my point)

1. Why do you think that believing Moshiach will come today is a contradiction to "doing your thing". You think I sit around watching the clock for Moshiach to come? That's not what it's about. You need to be actively BRINGING Moshiach with making this world a better place. You can do that and still believe that every little good thing you do will bring Moshiach.

2. Things do get resurrected all the time. You and I both get ressurected each morning. It's not the same, but it's similar.
We're basically paralyzed dumb deaf and blind when we sleep then we get it all back in a flash each morning. It's a miracle. Only nobody pays attention to it.

3. Being with two fine women is not a contradiction to Moshiach at all. Not in the least bit.
I can explain this further on PM.

On point #1, we are saying the same thing in a different way..so I agree with this.
On point #2, I disagree.  A dead person no longer is biologically alive. His/her heart stops beating, electrical impulses are completely gone, his body temperature drops immensely.  A person asleep is still alive biologically. His brain is till very active, his heart is still beating, a loud noise can wake him up.  Now, I agree that it is a miracle waking from a sleep like that.  But waking up from a slumber isn' tthe same as the resurrection that many Jews interpret with those who are long dead to come back to life.  Very different.
On point #3,  being wtih two fine women fooling around with them both simultaneously can become a reality if one attempted to make it one. The same might be true with Moshiach...What i was merely saying was that fooling around with two fine women is an unholy act and bringing about the moshiach is a holy act and that i didn't mean to compare the two in that light...but both were types of fantasies..one being holy and the other an unholy fantasy.

[abdithefaithful]

Well, there's certainly no denying the fact that when it comes to the matter of "fantasy", there is clearly the righteous & "HOLY"-- and then of course there's the immoral and "UNHOLY". It is necessary for the soul to lean far more towards the "holy" and work to muster the faith and strength to avoid the "unholy". Needless to say, mankind's continuous fight between "good" and "evil" can often prove to be a most taxing battle, that's why so many people in our world fail in this most formidable of fights. Perhaps it would be a worthwhile fantasy to hope for a day when fighting the temptation to choose the "HOLY" over the "UNHOLY" wouldn't be such a struggle for some. Perhaps a wonderful fantasy would be for a day in history to come when mankind's conscience would be pure and always inclined to make the "HOLY" choice when confronted with both sides of the moral and ethical coin. How's THAT for a fantasy?

[Dr. Dan]

Well, there's certainly no denying the fact that when it comes to the matter of "fantasy", there is clearly the righteous & "HOLY"-- and then of course there's the immoral and "UNHOLY". It is necessary for the soul to lean far more towards the "holy" and work to muster the faith and strength to avoid the "unholy". Needless to say, mankind's continuous fight between "good" and "evil" can often prove to be a most taxing battle, that's why so many people in our world fail in this most formidable of fights. Perhaps it would be a worthwhile fantasy to hope for a day when fighting the temptation to choose the "HOLY" over the "UNHOLY" wouldn't be such a struggle for some. Perhaps a wonderful fantasy would be for a day in history to come when mankind's conscience would be pure and always inclined to make the "HOLY" choice when confronted with both sides of the moral and ethical coin. How's THAT for a fantasy?

I believe that at this point in human theological evolution, the struggle between good and evil and holy and unholy eventually elevates humankind in a more beautiful guided way.  For some reason, we can't seem to understand why evil and unholiness exists in this world and wish for everythign to be nice and easy and good.  However, we must not forget that without this struggle would all be simple folk...

However, I do look forward to a day that all the righteous prove the evil wrong in front of the wishywashers.

[JTFFan]

An ultimate Fantasy would have JTF become a mass movement

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

To love, and to be loved by a woman.

Hail I can see that fantasy coming true for you.

[DownwithIslam]

My ultimate fantasy is for Juan Mccain to get on tv and tell everyone that his skin cancer is spreading like wildfire and he has to drop out of the race. And then we find out that Chaim Ben Pesach has been allowed entry into Israel.

[JTFFan]

My ultimate fantasy is for Juan Mccain to get on tv and tell everyone that his skin cancer is spreading like wildfire and he has to drop out of the race. And then we find out that Chaim Ben Pesach has been allowed entry into Israel.

That's also a righteous Ultimate Fantasy

[JR-Obilic]

My fantasy is to clean up the Balkans and help my people.  Serbian Kosovo.  And eternal peace and equality for all rightous people!  Also, i want to create a slavic union of all slavic countries in Europe to balance the nazi agenda of the EU.

[abdithefaithful]

Eternal peace and equality for all righteous people is a worthwhile "fantasy" indeed. Although the realist in all of us can lend us to being somewhat pessimistic of that goal being achieved in our lifetime, it is still a thought (ie: fantasy) that when contemplated while in a more optimistic mood does generate a good feeling for our soul and spirit.