Guns and Self-Defense > Guns/Firearms
Forget 'glamour guns'. Keep your arsenal simple and effective.
White Israelite:
--- Quote from: newman on February 11, 2008, 01:52:05 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ithaca-37 on February 10, 2008, 12:33:31 PM ---Most experienced hunters would agree with your thinking about long rifles. I once read this comment from a big-game hunting guide (not his exact words perhaps, but you get the idea): "I cringe when a client arrives with a semi-auto rifle. He's usually more concerned with cracking his second and third shots rather than making his first shot count."
Allow me to offer a counter to the bolt-action rifle: I've become a fan of the lever action. The lever action still forces the discipline of a good first shot, same as the bolt action, BUT it's better than the bolt action for keeping your eyes on the target as you load a followup shot.
One downside to the lever vs bolt: The choice of calibers is more limited in lever action than bolt action, and bolt action is reportedly an inherently stronger design.
As for handguns, while I grasp your point about revolvers vs automatics, the .45 is about as sturdy a weapon as has ever been invented. The design is literally a century old, and gun makers are still issuing new models based on its action mechanism. That guy Browning was a mechanical genius.
et
--- End quote ---
I like lever guns, too.
In a built-up urban area pistol caliber lever actions make more sense than rifle powered semi-autos as they won't go through walls and kill 'friendlies'.
In a survival scenario the problem is ammunition. Sporting ammo like 30-30 is not the best choice compared to more common military/police calibers. The pistol caliber guns make as much sense today as they did in 1878 when the Winchest rifles AND the SAA Colt were available in the same chambering (44 WCF aka 44-40). Your rifle and pistol BOTH take the same ammo! Problem is then range. I don't think lever guns are as rugged as a mil-spec rifle either and they're not real easy to field strip in a dark pup tent.
Re pistols:
The 1911 and other Browning designs are time-tested and proven in many wars in many climates. No reliability issues there. The problems with autos are;
(a) Lose the detatchable magazine/s and they won't fire.
(b) Moving parts to get lost/broken
(c) Keep magazines loaded for extended periods and the springs get weak leading to feed failures.
(d) Most autos will not function reliably with hollow/soft point ammo. It's military FMJs or nothing if you want total reliability.
--- End quote ---
I've left magazines loaded for years and they never had reliability issues. My grandpa also has world war II rifles with magazines that had been loaded for up to 10-15 years at a time and still functioned fine. We noticed that the wear is when you constantly reload magazines as the spring tension gets weaker.
newman:
There's another thing to consider here.
Before we get to the 'total breakdown of society, roaming hoards' stage, there'll be a horrible intermediate period of oppressive government. This will mean gun limitation, gun registration followed by gun confiscation. Look at New Orleans during Katrina. Hoards of apes roaming, raping & looting while the dirty coppers disarmed middle class, law-abiding white people!
It's well & good to argue what are the most effective guns but we need to consider what we can realistically get our hands on (and keep).
Example:
A new (but still high maintainance and stoppage-prone) AR-15 with 8 x 30 rd mags will set you back at least $1500. Surplus ammo about $350/1,000 rds.
An A-1 condition surplus Russian M44 bolt-action carbine (About 2 moving parts and BOMB PROOF) is $89!! Surplus 7.62x54 ammo is under $200 per 1,000 rds.
So........... buy 5 of the surplus M44s, bury 4 of them in different locations with 500 rds each, keep one with 1,000 rds at home.
All-up cost: $1050 versus $1850 for ONE AR-15 with ammo. If the gun grabbers come, you'll lose an $89 rifle and still have 4 in reserve they'll never find with ammo................as opposed to losing a $1500 rifle and being unarmed when the hyphenated Americans come wilding around.
With the $800 change, go buy 2 brand new Maverick 88 combat shotguns at $200 each with slings and a couple of good used S&W M65/66 .357s (yeah I know they're really .38s) for $200 each. Keep one of each out and hide the others.
Remember:
The surplus bolt-action the gun grabbers DON'T get is 50 times better than the high capacity semi-auto they confiscate.
The .38 snubbie you can hide in your pants and get past the road block beats the latest & greatest .45 Glock they grab.
White Israelite:
I was going to buy a Mossberg 590 shotgun, any objections?
Also on bolt action, I been meaning to get a few (Mosin-Nagant, is that the same as the M44?)
I've heard Arisaka Type 38 was one of the finest made bolt action rifles ever made, the only problem is that the ammo is rare for it, I think they converted a few to 8mm though.
The Mauser KAR98k from my understanding is a very reliable weapon as well, a friend of mine owned an original with a US Armory stamp on the barrel, looked like it was taken off a dead Nazi soldier as it still has the eagle with the swastika on the rifle. I shot a few rounds through it, very accurate.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with bolt actions.
newman:
--- Quote from: Cohen on February 11, 2008, 12:07:13 PM ---I was going to buy a Mossberg 590 shotgun, any objections?
Also on bolt action, I been meaning to get a few (Mosin-Nagant, is that the same as the M44?)
I've heard Arisaka Type 38 was one of the finest made bolt action rifles ever made, the only problem is that the ammo is rare for it, I think they converted a few to 8mm though.
The Mauser KAR98k from my understanding is a very reliable weapon as well, a friend of mine owned an original with a US Armory stamp on the barrel, looked like it was taken off a dead Nazi soldier as it still has the eagle with the swastika on the rifle. I shot a few rounds through it, very accurate.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with bolt actions.
--- End quote ---
I owned a 500 Mossberg and they're a good gun at a good price. I just mentioned the Maverick because they are essentially a Mossberg and they're $185 (less at Walmart) brand new.
If you want real quality you might look at the Remington 870 Police.........NOT the express, but the Police model. It's a milled steel reciever and all HD metal parts. The mossbergs are alloy recievers and plastic trigger groups.
The Ithaca 37 M&P shotguns are being made again, too. Not cheap but the Rolls Royce of combat scatterguns.
Are you confusing the oddball jap type 38 with the renowned Swedish M38 Mausser? I know the Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 are considered to be works of art and shoot MOA out of the box. Harly used either coz Swedes don't fight.
I owned an Israeli Kar 98k Mauser. It had been rebarrelled by FN or IMI with a chrome-lined barrel in .308 (NATO), had a new stock, too. Only original part was the reciever but boy could it shoot! Head shots at 200 yards with standard iron sights and I'm not an A-grade shot!
Problem with Mausers now days is the ammo. 8mm stuff ain't cheap anymore. Years ago you could buy it by the can at under 10 cents a round.
White Israelite:
--- Quote from: newman on February 11, 2008, 12:24:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Cohen on February 11, 2008, 12:07:13 PM ---I was going to buy a Mossberg 590 shotgun, any objections?
Also on bolt action, I been meaning to get a few (Mosin-Nagant, is that the same as the M44?)
I've heard Arisaka Type 38 was one of the finest made bolt action rifles ever made, the only problem is that the ammo is rare for it, I think they converted a few to 8mm though.
The Mauser KAR98k from my understanding is a very reliable weapon as well, a friend of mine owned an original with a US Armory stamp on the barrel, looked like it was taken off a dead Nazi soldier as it still has the eagle with the swastika on the rifle. I shot a few rounds through it, very accurate.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with bolt actions.
--- End quote ---
I owned a 500 Mossberg and they're a good gun at a good price. I just mentioned the Maverick because they are essentially a Mossberg and they're $185 (less at Walmart) brand new.
If you want real quality you might look at the Remington 870 Police.........NOT the express, but the Police model. It's a milled steel reciever and all HD metal parts. The mossbergs are alloy recievers and plastic trigger groups.
The Ithaca 37 M&P shotguns are being made again, too. Not cheap but the Rolls Royce of combat scatterguns.
Are you confusing the oddball jap type 38 with the renowned Swedish M38 Mausser? I know the Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 are considered to be works of art and shoot MOA out of the box. Harly used either coz Swedes don't fight.
I owned an Israeli Kar 98k Mauser. It had been rebarrelled by FN or IMI with a chrome-lined barrel in .308 (NATO), had a new stock, too. Only original part was the reciever but boy could it shoot! Head shots at 200 yards with standard iron sights and I'm not an A-grade shot!
Problem with Mausers now days is the ammo. 8mm stuff ain't cheap anymore. Years ago you could buy it by the can at under 10 cents a round.
--- End quote ---
Nope, dead serious about the Arisakas, there were stress tests done on them and they were renowned for being one of the strongest bolt action rifles ever made, even stronger than the KAR98.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arisaka
here is more information about the specific rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_38_rifle
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