Christian Zionists, Jews, and Israel

[David Ben-Ariel]

Understanding the unique relationship between Christian Zionists, Jews and Israel

 Christian Zionists, Jews, and Israel

[NeverMore]

David, i dont understand something. if you are a Christian (and i understand you dont convert because you believe you are Jewish in a way, that you are part of one of the lost tribes), how come you wait for the Massiah and dont think he has already arrived- in the form of Jesus? or do you wait for him to return as promised? do you think conversion is only changing your tribe, not religion?

also, could you please tell those who dont know who you are (like me) something about you- why exactly you were deported and other information of that kind.

thanks.

[Shlomo]

NeverMore, what are you up to? lol

[Christian Zionist]

Hi JeffGuy & NeverMore!

David Ben-Ariel's article states:
I am a baptized member of the Sabbath-keeping Church of God (who believe the plain truth of the Bible that Herbert W. Armstrong taught)

It means he belongs to a Christian denomination called Seventh Day Adventists!

They strictly observe the Sabbath and Saturday is their day of worship.  Therefore they feel a little closer to Jews.

The regular Evangelical Christians disagree with Seventh Day Adventists in the following things:

(Some Important Doctirines Taught By Seventh Day Adventists:)

Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep (Denies the eternality of hell fire)
Ellen G. White, the founder of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.

P.S.

This is not to offend the sentiments of anyone and I am neither saying their beliefs are right nor wrong.  Also this is just for information purpose only.  It is not my intention to stir up controversies here.  Let us stay within the topics discussed by Chaim.


Here are some prominent Christian Zionist Organizations:

http://www.icej.org/   (Internation Christian Embassy Jerusalem) - ICEJ prohibits its staff members from missionizing Jews.

http://www.christianactionforisrael.org/   - Canada based Christian Zionist Organization.

Derek Prince was the greatest Christian Zionist ever lived in our times. His contirbution to Zionist Christianity was far greater than the combined works of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.  He died in Jerusalem 3 years ago at the age of 88.  He was responsible for transforming millions of Christians into Zionist Christians.  His radio messages (still) reach more than 50% of the globe which persuades more and more Christians to become Zionist Christians.

[Shlomo]

Man... if Christians all took Sabbath on Saturday... that would be so much easier for religious Jews! lol  Stuff is always closed on Sunday. LOL

[Rhuan]

That's a point I've often wondered about... Why can't we (myself included, I am a christian) worship on saturday, the orriginal sabbath, why did we decide to move the sabbath forward a day? When does it say anywhere in the bible that this is something we should do? I've been told by other christians, that we worship on sunday in celebration of Jesus being resurrected on a sunday, but I personally don't really think that was reason enough to change day...

Regarding this "Christian denomination", Seventh Day Adventists, I'd like to see some roots for their beliefs:

Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan, I can see nothing even suggesting this in the bible, one of the main messages of the new testament is that Jesus toook our sins, and paid the penalty for them.

Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath). I don't like this, "must", does that mean that they believe that I can't read the bible and pray each night before going to sleep?

Investigative Judgment, can you be more specific, what event exactly?

The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep (Denies the eternality of hell fire), this I almost find offensive, Jesus continually said that the dead still existed, looking in the new testament, you often see him refuting the sadducees on this point.

[Shlomo]

That's a point I've often wondered about... Why can't we (myself included, I am a christian) worship on saturday, the orriginal sabbath, why did we decide to move the sabbath forward a day? When does it say anywhere in the bible that this is something we should do? I've been told by other christians, that we worship on sunday in celebration of Jesus being resurrected on a sunday, but I personally don't really think that was reason enough to change day...

I originally thought it was because of religious persecution. Ya know, so they could hide but still meet together for services. But I did some research and here's what I found from a Christian web site. I don't know if it's true or not but here's the text and link:

"Apparently a law was passed by Constantine of Rome in 325 A.D., which changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday. His objective was to create religious peace between pagans and Christians and to pacify church leaders who wanted to separate themselves from the Jewish worshipers. Read Matt. 5:18"

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/saturdaysabbath.htm

[David Ben-Ariel]

I am not a Seventh Day Adventist! I clearly said I am a member of the Sabbath-keeping Church of God (who accept the plain truth of the Bible as taught by Herbert W. Armstrong - who met practically every Israeli prime minister. Teddy Kolek and many other Jews and Israelis - all who know we're not like traditional "Christians" who feel they must convert all). I've actually met very briefly Rabin, Kollek, Ehud, Sharon and others.

We are not "Jews for Jesus" but we keep the Sabbath (not according to halachic standards) and biblical festivals and reject Sunday and "Christian" holidays.

We believe the whole world under King Messiah, in the World to Come, the Wonderful World Tomorrow, will keep Sabbath and the biblical festivals - not just Jews and Israelites as Zechariah clearly reveals all nations are commanded l'hagog Sukkot or else!

I was unjustly deported from Israel for highlighting the plight of the Temple Mount suffering under its Nazi-Muslim occupation against both biblical and secular law.

From Toledo To Jerusalem

[Christian Zionist]

Sorry I misunderstood.  The way you described yourself sounded like that you were seventh day adventist!

Well my take on worshipping God is:  The purpose of man in this earth is to worship and to have a relationship with God.  Therefore man must stay in worship mode toward God at all times.  For me it is not when we worship God but how obedient are we for His commandments.

I am not a Jew for Jesus either.  I do not like to annoy people by standing in street corners, handing out pamphlets and debating with others.  I do not believe in going out and converting people because I have seen many sub-standard converts coming into the Church and spoiled the Spiritual quality of the Church. Genuine conversion is a personal encounter and relationship with God.  It is beyond the intellectual realm of arguments, debates and handing out tracts!  Therefore in my opinion it is futile to go around and missionize others.  God is accessible to both Jews and Christians.  Why don't they fast and pray and seek God and ask Him to reveal Himself instead of unnecessarily arguing about theological doctrines.


But I have a quesiton for you?  Do you believe that the Caucasian White people are members of the "10 lost tribes of Israel"?
I do not think so.  But many Europeans and people of European descent think that they are descendents of the 10 lost tribes of Israel.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Do you believe that the Caucasian White people are members of the "10 lost tribes of Israel"?

Yes. We are the only ones who bear the biblical birthmarks of fulfilled prophecies concerning the "Lost Ten Tribes" of Israel.
 
Not All Twelve Tribes of Israel are Jewish?
 
The United States and Britain in Prophecy
 
The Plain Truth About the "Lost Ten Tribes" and Why You Need to Know!
 
Joseph Isn't Jewish!
 
Origins of Nations
 
German-American Israelites?
 
Brit Am Israel
 
The United States and Britain in Bible Prophecy

We understand the Jews are Judah.

Why the Jews are Judah
 
Khazars by Yair Davidiy of Brit-Am Israel
 
A Jewish Homeland

If somebody doesn't believe this about Israel and Judah, that's their prerogative. I won't lose sleep over it. I'm just proven it to myself to be true.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Jews are supposed to pray every day, not just The Sabbath. Jews are supposed to pray 3 times a day and 4 times a day on The Sabbath.

I assume Seventh Day Adventists mean they just observe their Sabbath on Saturday. That doesn't mean they can't hold weekday prayers on Sunday.

The Sabbath-keeping Church of God (which includes United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, etc.) - not to be confused with the SDA - observe the biblical seventh day Sabbath for two reasons: Many of us are descendants of the "Lost Ten Tribes" and the commandment was given to all 12 Tribes, and Yeshua kept it, as well as the early Church of God, and never recognized SUNday as a replacement for Sabbath.

Sabbath-keeping Christians pray as often as they please, at least 3 times a day since we know that's biblical - but we're not limited to that number. We can hold prayers on any day of the week, including the first day. I end all my prayers with the plea, "Yerushalayim shel Zahav."

[Jizzepie]

If I'm not mistaken the Seventh Day Adventists eat only kosher food. They keep Saturday as the Sabbath. And some of them also believe in British Israelism, the idea that the Anglo Saxons were one of the lost tribes.

The Brits Israelis from America tried once to destroy the ancient capital of Ireland, the Hill of Tara (Teamhair na Rí), because they thought(and still think) the Ark of the Covenant lies there. Naturally the whole country was outraged. According to old Irish Gaelic myth the ark of the covenent was brought to Meath by Jeremiah. Teamhair is the name given to hill in Irish, and the Brits Israelis believe that Teamhair is the ancient Irish for Torah(Rí means kings....the High king of Ireland used to rule from there). They think Jeremiah lies buried under Cairn T. I don't think in Ireland actually believes this but you can find out more about this nonsense here.

Teamair na Rí





Cairn T...believed by BIs to be the burial site of Jeremiah

[David Ben-Ariel]

If I'm not mistaken the Seventh Day Adventists eat only kosher food. They keep Saturday as the Sabbath. And some of them also believe in British Israelism, the idea that the Anglo Saxons were one of the lost tribes.

Again, I am not a SDA, but the Church of God (who believe the plain truth of the Bible as Herbert W. Armstrong taught it) keep the seventh day Sabbath, every one of the seven biblical festivals and none of the pagan Roman Catholic Cult's whitewashed holidays, as well as only eating the foods the Bible classifies as "clean." We know we are numbered among the "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel."

[Christian Zionist]

If I'm not mistaken the Seventh Day Adventists eat only kosher food. They keep Saturday as the Sabbath. And some of them also believe in British Israelism, the idea that the Anglo Saxons were one of the lost tribes.

Again, I am not a SDA, but the Church of G-d (who believe the plain truth of the Bible as Herbert W. Armstrong taught it) keep the seventh day Sabbath, every one of the seven biblical festivals and none of the pagan Roman Catholic Cult's whitewashed holidays, as well as only eating the foods the Bible classifies as "clean." We know we are numbered among the "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel."

I think Herbert Armstrong's followers do not believe that a person can be born-again in this earth but it is only possible in the world to come. I 100% disagree with that.

Also I do not agree that the Caucasian whites (in England & America) are members of the 10 lost tribes of Israel.  It contradicts the Bible.

[ftfl]

I could talk for hours about subtle interpretations of the bible, but frankly I can't be bothered and I think I'd be wasting my time, because I don't think that you (david) are the type of person who'd change there views due to any kind of logical argument.

I personally follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, that I can read in the bible. (rather than having to hear them from someone else)

I celebrate christmas as Jesus' coming into the world, and easter as his death and ressurection.

I attend church on sundays because people have for a long time, and it is taken as being the day of the week that Jesus rose from the dead, I can see know reason why the particular day of the week matters just as long as people agree on one.