Poll

Should tobacco products be banned?

Yes.
5 (15.2%)
No.
11 (33.3%)
No, but there should be a heavy tax on them.
5 (15.2%)
No, education should be used to eradicate their use.
4 (12.1%)
Both 3 and 4.
8 (24.2%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Author Topic: Should tobacco products be banned?  (Read 10168 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

admin

  • Guest
Should tobacco products be banned?
« on: February 14, 2008, 12:00:23 AM »
Chaim started a similar poll on the Hebrew forum.

I think they should be banned.


Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3536
  • Kahane Was Right
    • Facebook Profile
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 12:03:01 AM »
I think that they should be banned but I want to be clear I am all for freedom but this endangers health of all people so for that reason I think that they should be.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline FULL METAL JACKET

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 392
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 12:03:26 AM »
No way. And it's sort of a slippery slope, because if that happens then alcohol is next, then there would be something else, etc. Prohibition does more harm then good.
Formely known as "1986"

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 12:04:47 AM »
No I don't think it should be banned at all.

Offline JTFFan

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3964
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 12:10:03 AM »
No

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 12:11:08 AM »
There should be a way to prevent people to start smoking. In fact tobacco takes more lives than Cannabis. But I don't agree with just banning. Perhaps it should be banned to sell it freely everywhere. Here teens begin smoking very young and that habit is very hard to quit once caught

Offline Ehud

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2476
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 12:21:00 AM »
No, we shouldn't be so paternalistic.  People should be able to make their own decisions regarding these types of things, and if they make the wrong decisions they have to live with their consequences.  It's fundamental in a free country that people should be able to do what they want to their own body (to certain limits of course)  And 1986 is right with the slippery slope argument.  What would be next?  Alcohol, food with higher than certain amounts of grams of fat?  Chocolate?
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 12:29:10 AM »
I would not ban tobacco, but hate to smoke sigarets , or inhaling an other person's smoke.

That's why I support to forbid smoking in  restaurants/bars/public space.

I like a cigar every now and then.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Ehud

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2476
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 12:30:49 AM »
No, we shouldn't be so paternalistic.  People should be able to make their own decisions regarding these types of things, and if they make the wrong decisions they have to live with their consequences.  It's fundamental in a free country that people should be able to do what they want to their own body (to certain limits of course)  And 1986 is right with the slippery slope argument.  What would be next?  Alcohol, food with higher than certain amounts of grams of fat?  Chocolate?


Philadelphia banned smoking in pubic buildings and trans fat in restaurants.

Alcohol is healthy in moderation. Tobacco is NEVER healthy.



Fattening food is never healthy if it's eaten to the same extent that heavy smoking is done to.  The US has an epidemic of heart attacks, high cholesterol and high blood pressure.  The health costs due to fattening foods are much higher than the costs of tobacco use.

Do you really think it's the responsibility of government to tell you what to eat, whether to smoke or not, whether to go mountain biking or extreme skiing? 

That's the position of social democrats like Obama and Clinton who want to infringe on people's freedom through government programs, taxes, etc.   
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 01:15:00 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 01:36:02 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.
great post, Newman O0
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 02:11:15 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.

I don't take this as a "literal" banning.
Its just a "for fun" thread of pretending to "ban" things.


I think fat chicks, Volvo drivers, drinking red wine with fish, weirdos who carry their babies in those back pack things, people who wear a beard with no mustache and old ladies who insist on showing you photos of their grandchildren should be banned.

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 02:53:16 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.

Bingo  O0

And now they want to ban us from smoking in cars............ >:(

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2008, 02:56:19 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.

Bingo  O0

And now they want to ban us from smoking in cars............ >:(
Typical facsist, health-nazi, "we know what's best for them" autocracy!

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2008, 03:10:26 AM »
Banning ANYTHING that does not alter the mind is nazi and facist. This is a liberal/leftist ideology........."we know what's best for eveybody".

Protein cooked at high temperature (meat over flames) is proven to cause cancer. Do we ban BBQs?

Fats cause heart disease. Do we ban lamb chops?

The formaldahyde in dish detergent causes cancer. Wanna ban that, too?

By all means outlaw smoking in enclosed public spaces as it may effect non-consenting others, but banning a legal product enjoyed by consenting adults for several centuries "for their own good" is nazi, facist and DEMOCRAT to the core.

Bingo  O0

And now they want to ban us from smoking in cars............ >:(
Typical facsist, health-nazi, "we know what's best for them" autocracy!

As I side to one person, theres a window roll it down and use it  ::)

Offline RationalThought110

  • Moderator
  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 4813
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2008, 03:13:49 AM »
1. Why did this thread get stickied in the general section of the forum, where there are lots of important other threads?

2. Maybe the thread should be moved to the health section of the forum.

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2008, 03:20:15 AM »
1. Why did this thread get stickied in the general section of the forum, where there are lots of important other threads?

2. Maybe the thread should be moved to the health section of the forum.

The question of 'banning' a legal product is not a health issue. It is a question of conservative values of personal freedom versus leftist, facsist, nazi ideology.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2008, 08:38:54 AM »
in as much i despise cigarettes, best to do choice 3 and 4 instead of just banning them
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline MassuhDGoodName

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4542
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2008, 10:10:06 AM »
Albert Einstein smoked a pipe.

He said that when asked a question by physics students, he would always pause to relight his pipe and savor a puff or two, before answering the question.

Groucho Marx, Sigmund Freud, Sir Winston Churchill, and John F. Kennedy smoked cigars.

Why would G-d create such a beautiful and desirable plant, if He did not want it to be used by humankind?

During modern history's dark periods of war and economic chaos, tobacco has always been one commodity more valuable than money to a very large percentage of population.

Inside prison systems, cigarettes have more value than money, and are used as "payment" for favors, debts, etc... .

How could this be so?

Because nicotein reduces the appetite, stimulates the mind, all while producing a calmative, tranquilizing effect.

I remember hearing numerous "folk tale" accounts from fishermen, who claimed that if stung by a wasp or bitten by snakes, they would immediately put a plug of tobacco over the injury, denaturing the toxins and reducing inflammation.

Recent scientific studies indicate that nicotein usage staves off the development of Alzheimer's Disease.

The average age of onset for lung cancer is 65.

The average life-span of humankind prior to recent scientific advancements was 30 to 40 years.

Could the increased longevity of mankind, prolonging our exposure to cancer-causing chemicals, be the actual reason for the high rates of cancers seen today?

Statistical charts are always used by the "anti-tobacco" lobby to show that cancer rates have risen with the advent of tobacco's widespread use.

However, the popular use of tobacco also correlates with the popular widespread use of the internal combustion engines which power our automobiles, buses, jet planes, and military vehicles; all of which have been spewing far more toxic gases and carcinogenic particulate matter into Earth's breathable air than could be derived from all of the tobacco ignited during the same period.

The other "politically incorrect" sources of carcinogens and mutagens originate from daily exposure to industrial chemicals, from the burning of coal, from the nuclear and microwave radiation to which our planet has been heavily exposed as a result of TV/Radio broadcast transmissions, the above-ground nuclear weapons tests of the 1940's-1970's, and the widespread acceptance of "nuclear power plants" within both the civilian as well as the military sectors of our society.

Nuclear energy produces highly dangerous "radioactive wastes" which remain poisonous and lethal for 50,000 years and longer.

A "dirty little secret" is the fact that all of the militaries of the world have for years been dumping their toxic radioactive wastes directly into the oceans and seas, resulting in radioactivity entering our food chain.

When exposed to radiation, humans accumulate and store it in their breasts, thyroid glands, and prostate glands.

It may well be that the cancer epidemic witnessed throughout the 20th Century has been the result of a combination of factors, including the breathing of poisonous air, tobacco usage, exposure to nuclear radiation, and bombardment by microwave transmissions from TV, radio, computers, cell phones, X-rays, etc...

Currently, the West is experiencing an epidemic of cancerous tumors of the brain, skin, and other organ systems, which do not appear to be the direct result of long-term tobacco use.
   
Advances in medicine and nutrition have enabled most of us in the West to live far longer than did our ancestors, allowing most of us to reach the age when physical bodies begin a state of decline known as "the aging process", at which time the combined synergistic effects from decades of air pollution, water pollution, nuclear radiation, food chain pollution, electromagnetic pollution, and tobacco use, produce epidemic rates of cancer.

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2008, 10:15:53 AM »
smoking only harms other people if you are the type that hangs around people that smoke.

the 2 friend i ever had that smoked, I moved away from when they smoked.

most people that smoke are idiots that I have nothing to do with.




Offline New Yorker

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »


No banning! If you don't do something because you are FORCED not to do it, instead of cultivating the self discipline not to do it, you have acomplished nothing but creating a society of weak infantile sheep!!!!
Nuke the arabs till they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2008, 11:18:46 AM »


No banning! If you don't do something because you are FORCED not to do it, instead of cultivating the self discipline not to do it, you have acomplished nothing but creating a society of weak infantile sheep!!!!
You've just perfectly summed up the liberal-facsist view of mankind.

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2008, 11:55:57 AM »
No, we should focus on bigger and better thing that smoking bans and tobacco bans. I think its up to the owner of any establishment to have smoking or non-smoking places of buisness. And what the hell is a bar good for if you cant smoke in it? Ban Muslims not tobacco.
I'm with you, Moshe.

Non-smoking bars go broke.

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2008, 12:27:00 PM »
No, if it's not affecting anyone else, who cares if someone uses tobacco or not. Their body.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: Should tobacco products be banned?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2008, 02:23:31 PM »
I smoke sometimes a few cigarrettes and I have an old pipe from my father.

But it is true - Smoking is not healthy.

I think the best way to handle this problem is:

1. Nobody should allowed to make promotion for it.

2. Tabacco-products are only allowed to persons over 18

3. They should be sold only in non-viewable store-rooms

4. Smoking in public should be banned in general.

5. If somebody becomes ill because of his smoking, the health-inshurence should take back from him a part of the costs to cure him.

If somebody wants to smoke some tabacco, he should do it, like me, in his own four walls.

But I am not for banning it in general.

P.S.:
I am not for heavy taxes on tabbaco products, because I think it is not righteous from the gouvernment to take profit from unhealthy things. Better is to go the straight way and to limit the access to it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:34:36 PM by Golden Pheasant »
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani