General Category > Introduce Yourself
hello
Abdul-Azim:
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:12:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:05:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:03:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 04:56:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:49:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 19, 2008, 03:10:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:01:40 AM ---Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac was not a Jew nor was Israel aka Jacob a Jew. They were the patriarchs and were technically noachide hassidim. The DESCENDANTS of Israel are the Jews (ie: Children of Israel).
--- End quote ---
Oh yeah, Newman. I remember talking about it at another thread.
Some people regard Abraham as the "first Hebrew". And others are like "NO how could he have been". It's so confusing at times, to many opinions on the matter! :(
--- End quote ---
I'm no expert but to get technical...............
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were hebrews (ethnically) and noachides (in religion). There was no Torah then.
Jacob's (Israel's) sons and their descendants up until The Law-giving at Sinai were Israelites or Children of Israel.
After Sinai the Israelites became the Keepers of Torah and a Nation of Priests (what we popularly call Jews).
However,
Jew actually means 'man of Judah' as in from the tribe of Judah. But by popular useage, 'Jew' now means all descendants (maternally) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (or those who hallachically convert to Judaism).
Confusing, huh? :(
--- End quote ---
how were they hebrew? Ibrahim was from Ur, was he not?
--- End quote ---
Yes. But he worshiped the one true G-d (NOT allah the moondog) not the idols of Ur. He originated the 'Hebrew' ethnicity. It's not race but 'ethnicity'. Jews, Hebrews, Israelites etc are not a race but a nation or ethnicity defined by a religion.
--- End quote ---
so ishmael was a hebrew as well then? after all, an angel was sent to save him.
--- End quote ---
#
No. He was the first Ishmaelite or arab.
G-d told Abraham to kick him and his mother out. G_d declared that Ishmael would be 'donkey of a man whose hand would be against the world and all the world against him'. That's a pretty good description of the arab people , BTW.
G-D only wanted the 'right stuff' to form the basis of a chosen people in those days.
--- End quote ---
then why was he saved? and why did G-d say "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; G-d has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."?
newman:
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:18:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:12:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:05:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:03:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 04:56:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:49:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 19, 2008, 03:10:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:01:40 AM ---Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac was not a Jew nor was Israel aka Jacob a Jew. They were the patriarchs and were technically noachide hassidim. The DESCENDANTS of Israel are the Jews (ie: Children of Israel).
--- End quote ---
Oh yeah, Newman. I remember talking about it at another thread.
Some people regard Abraham as the "first Hebrew". And others are like "NO how could he have been". It's so confusing at times, to many opinions on the matter! :(
--- End quote ---
I'm no expert but to get technical...............
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were hebrews (ethnically) and noachides (in religion). There was no Torah then.
Jacob's (Israel's) sons and their descendants up until The Law-giving at Sinai were Israelites or Children of Israel.
After Sinai the Israelites became the Keepers of Torah and a Nation of Priests (what we popularly call Jews).
However,
Jew actually means 'man of Judah' as in from the tribe of Judah. But by popular useage, 'Jew' now means all descendants (maternally) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (or those who hallachically convert to Judaism).
Confusing, huh? :(
--- End quote ---
how were they hebrew? Ibrahim was from Ur, was he not?
--- End quote ---
Yes. But he worshiped the one true G-d (NOT allah the moondog) not the idols of Ur. He originated the 'Hebrew' ethnicity. It's not race but 'ethnicity'. Jews, Hebrews, Israelites etc are not a race but a nation or ethnicity defined by a religion.
--- End quote ---
so ishmael was a hebrew as well then? after all, an angel was sent to save him.
--- End quote ---
#
No. He was the first Ishmaelite or arab.
G-d told Abraham to kick him and his mother out. G_d declared that Ishmael would be 'donkey of a man whose hand would be against the world and all the world against him'. That's a pretty good description of the arab people , BTW.
G-D only wanted the 'right stuff' to form the basis of a chosen people in those days.
--- End quote ---
then why was he saved? and why did G-d say "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; G-d has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."?
--- End quote ---
For the same reason he makes earthquakes, tsunamis and poison snakes.
Also for the same reason he made the Jews the world's tiniest Nation (less than 1% of total population). If Israel was a huge nation the rest of the people would think their greatness came from numbers not because of their devine election. The fact that tiny Israel is outnumbered 100:1 by arabs and WINS crushing victories time after time after time (as prophesised in Torah, BTW) proves to many gentiles that they ARE the chosen people (among other things).
Abdul-Azim:
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:28:20 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:18:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:12:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:05:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:03:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 04:56:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:49:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 19, 2008, 03:10:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 03:01:40 AM ---Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac was not a Jew nor was Israel aka Jacob a Jew. They were the patriarchs and were technically noachide hassidim. The DESCENDANTS of Israel are the Jews (ie: Children of Israel).
--- End quote ---
Oh yeah, Newman. I remember talking about it at another thread.
Some people regard Abraham as the "first Hebrew". And others are like "NO how could he have been". It's so confusing at times, to many opinions on the matter! :(
--- End quote ---
I'm no expert but to get technical...............
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were hebrews (ethnically) and noachides (in religion). There was no Torah then.
Jacob's (Israel's) sons and their descendants up until The Law-giving at Sinai were Israelites or Children of Israel.
After Sinai the Israelites became the Keepers of Torah and a Nation of Priests (what we popularly call Jews).
However,
Jew actually means 'man of Judah' as in from the tribe of Judah. But by popular useage, 'Jew' now means all descendants (maternally) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (or those who hallachically convert to Judaism).
Confusing, huh? :(
--- End quote ---
how were they hebrew? Ibrahim was from Ur, was he not?
--- End quote ---
Yes. But he worshiped the one true G-d (NOT allah the moondog) not the idols of Ur. He originated the 'Hebrew' ethnicity. It's not race but 'ethnicity'. Jews, Hebrews, Israelites etc are not a race but a nation or ethnicity defined by a religion.
--- End quote ---
so ishmael was a hebrew as well then? after all, an angel was sent to save him.
--- End quote ---
#
No. He was the first Ishmaelite or arab.
G-d told Abraham to kick him and his mother out. G_d declared that Ishmael would be 'donkey of a man whose hand would be against the world and all the world against him'. That's a pretty good description of the arab people , BTW.
G-D only wanted the 'right stuff' to form the basis of a chosen people in those days.
--- End quote ---
then why was he saved? and why did G-d say "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; G-d has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."?
--- End quote ---
For the same reason he makes earthquakes, tsunamis and poison snakes.
Also for the same reason he made the Jews the world's tiniest Nation (less than 1% of total population). If Israel was a huge nation the rest of the people would think their greatness came from numbers not because of their devine election. The fact that tiny Israel is outnumbered 100:1 by arabs and WINS crushing victories time after time after time (as prophesised in Torah, BTW) proves to many gentiles that they ARE the chosen people (among other things).
--- End quote ---
are you sure there are fewer Jews then Basques in the world? :)
newman:
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:35:20 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 19, 2008, 05:28:20 AM ---
--- Quote from: Abdul-Azim on February 19, 2008, 05:18:48 AM ---
then why was he saved? and why did G-d say "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; G-d has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."?
--- End quote ---
For the same reason he makes earthquakes, tsunamis and poison snakes.
Also for the same reason he made the Jews the world's tiniest Nation (less than 1% of total population). If Israel was a huge nation the rest of the people would think their greatness came from numbers not because of their devine election. The fact that tiny Israel is outnumbered 100:1 by arabs and WINS crushing victories time after time after time (as prophesised in Torah, BTW) proves to many gentiles that they ARE the chosen people (among other things).
--- End quote ---
are you sure there are fewer Jews then Basques in the world? :)
--- End quote ---
I meant REAL nations. That's why Canada isn't included. ;)
MassuhDGoodName:
Abdul-Azim: "...how were they hebrew? Ibrahim was from Ur, was he not?..."
Yes, he was from Ur.
However, the descendants of the European French who for political reasons were expelled from Canada, and who now reside as an ethnic community in Louisiana with their own distinct culture, food, music, and language, are known as Cajuns today.
Neither they themselves, nor the rest of the world, still consider the Cajuns to be citizens of France.
Cajuns are citizens of the U.S.A., but their fellow American citizens regard them as if they make up a separate nation within the U.S.A. .
By this exact same reasoning, The Jewish People claim Abraham of Ur as their Patriarch, but over thousands of years have developed their own unique culture, unique language, unique history, unique cuisine, and a unique religious and historical Book of Scripture known to Jews as Torah, and known to Christians as The Bible.
I have now proven the Arab World's classification of Jews as "merely Jewish Arabs" to be another grand lie and falsehood; another psychopathic propaganda resulting from the Arabs' inability to face the ugly reality of their own primitive and backwards culture.
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