Author Topic: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...  (Read 10031 times)

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Offline Gruzinit

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Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« on: February 18, 2008, 12:17:26 PM »
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3390760.ece


Serbs vent anger at Kosovo independence declaration

Protesters took to the streets in key Serb centres across the Balkans today to vent their anger at Kosovo's declaration of independence, as Moscow called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to oppose the move.

The day after scenes of wild celebrations by Kosovan Albanians on the streets of Pristina, the Kosovo capital, there was a very different mood in Banja Luka, the capital of the Bosnian Serb Republic, where a protest march turned violent as demonstrators threw stones and eggs at police stopping them breaking into the US Consulate.

In Belgrade, the Serbian capital, some 7,000 people gathered in Republic Square, the heart of the city, carrying Serbian flags and singing anti-Albanian slogans.

In Kosovo itself, 5,000 Serbs chanted “This is Serbia” and waved banners reading “Russia Help!” and posters of US flags with Nazi swastikas scribbled over them, as they demanded that the parts of Kosovo where Serbs live remain within Serbia.

The Serbian parliament is planning an emergency session to adopt a government decision to annul Kosovo's independence declaration on the ground that it “violates the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Serbia”.

The Serb government also declared “null and void” the EU decision, which received the green light on Friday night, to send a 2,000-strong force of policemen and lawyers to help Kosovo to establish the foundations for the rule of law in the new country.

Russia has supported Serbia's claim to Kosovo, while the United States has supported Kosovo's drive for independence.

“America is no longer the single world power,” Marko Jaksic, the hardline leader of Kosovo Serbs, told the noisy gathering. “The Russians are coming. As long as there is Russia and Serbia, there will never be an independent Kosovo.”

The crowds, singing nationalist songs, marched to a bridge spanning a river that divides Kosovska Mitrovica, with Serbs in the north and ethnic Albanians in the south of the drab mining town. They were confronted by Nato peacekeepers, but there were no violent incidents. “If the Albanians try to cross the bridge, we demand from the Serbian Army to use all available means to stop them,” Jaksic said.

Another 800 Serbs staged a noisy demonstration in the Serb-dominated enclave of Gracanica outside Pristina, waving Serbian flags and singing patriotic songs.

The European Union called for calm in the Balkans as foreign ministers began their meeting in Brussels to consider how to react to Kosovo's declaration of independence. Six member states oppose the move, although the EU has sent an 1,800-strong mission to aid the Kosovo Albanians in setting up their new republic.

Javier Solana, its foreign policy representative, told reporters: “I would like to make an appeal to everybody to act responsibly. The EU has already decided to send a mission of stability, a mission of rule of law. It should contribute to the stability of the Balkans.”

Janez Jansa, the Slovenian Prime Minister, whose Government is chairing today's ministerial meeting, said that the independence move would not change his country's policy of ensuring stability in the region and “as unified a European Union standpoint as possible”.

Faced with the latest change on the continent's political landscape, David Milliband, the British Foreign Secretary, said: “It is critical that Europe shows real leadership in how it ensures that peace and stability are the order of the day in the Western Balkans.”

The EU ministers are looking to adopt a statement by the end of the day that will take note of Kosovo's declaration and will confirm the “European perspective” of the entire Western Balkans - a standard phrase pointing to eventual EU membership.

Most individual EU members, led by Britain, France and Italy, are ready to give early recognition to the new state. The French Foreign Minister, Bernard Kouchner, described independence as “a great success for Europe” which should not be seen as a defeat for Serbia.

Olli Rehn, the European Enlargement Commissioner, maintained that Kosovo was a unique case that would not set a precedent for other breakaway regions in the world. He praised Kosovan leaders for agreeing to respect minority rights in line with the plan drafted by Martti Ahtisaari, the UN special envoy to Kosovo and former Prime Minister of Finald

There were contradictory responses from Berlin. The German Foreign Minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, described Kosovo's independence as inevitable, while Chancellor Angela Merkel made it clear that her Government would not take an immediate decision today.

A minority of the 27 EU countries — including Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Bulgaria and Romania — have made it clear that they will not go down the recognition route. Either they harbour legal misgivings or, particularly in the case of Spain and Cyprus, they do not want to give precedents to domestic minorities seeking to secede.

There was hostile reaction from Russia, Serbia's close ally, which called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Councilon, on which it holds veto power as a permanent member. It said that Kosovo's independence violated the UN Charter, threatened to spark new conflict and encouraged separatists elsewhere.

A senior Russian diplomat urged Ban Ki Moon , the UN Secretary-General, to oppose Kosovan independence as the Kremlin sought to rally support for its stance, Interfax news agency reported.

Aleksander Botsan-Kharchenko, the Foreign Ministry's special envoy to the Balkans, was quoted as saying that Moscow expects Ban Ki Moon to proceed from an earlier UN Security Council Resolution that recognised Kosovo as part of Serbia. “He should adhere to the UN Charter and UN Security Council resolution 1244 on Kosovo,” he said.
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Offline briann

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 12:28:07 PM »
you wont see anything but praise from our media for Kosovo and its independence, as it is the triumph of the liberal Muslim loving establishment.  And this story we'll be buried like everything else that opposes their viewpoint.





Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 12:29:43 PM »
Chaim talked about it at the beginning of the Ask JTF show for this week.

Offline JTFFan

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 02:49:39 PM »
Chaim talked about it at the beginning of the Ask JTF show for this week.

yes I remember

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 03:46:20 PM »
Most Americans just don't understand, and it's sad because they would have had a much more loyal friend in the Serbs then the Albanians who are only supporting America because it's in their economic interest. 

And yes, now especially all Serbs will gravitate more towards Russia.
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Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 04:01:45 PM »
Russia will not lift finger to help Serbia over Kosowo, especialy now when Putin is going to build new oil and gas Northern Pipeline with the help of the Germans who are urging  entire EU to adopt united policy over Kosowo. For Russians the good relations with France and Germany are more important than small, poor and remote Serbia. They will witdrew their verbal support as soon as NATO and EU will stop supporting Ukraine and Georgia aspirations.   
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 04:59:22 PM »
Not true, the Russians have given us MANY weapons and have supported us since 1991 and before.  Wehn America was supporting the same Jihadists they are supposedly opposed to now.  And as far as pipelines:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/22/world/main3736893.shtml?source=RSSattr=World_3736893

(AP) Serbia agreed Tuesday to a multibillion dollar gas pipeline project as part of an energy deal with Russia that would boost Moscow's control over supplies to Europe.

A majority stake of the Serbian oil monopoly NIS will be sold to Russian energy giant Gazprom and Russia will route part of the gas pipeline through Serbia. A Serbian government statement announcing the deal did not reveal the financial terms. The deal is to be signed in Moscow on Friday.

Serbia endorsed the deal just days after Russian President Vladimir Putin won Bulgaria's support for the project, known as the South Stream pipeline, which further dashes the European Union's hopes of reducing its growing energy reliance on Russia.

Russia promised to extend the pipeline into Serbia and build a huge gas storage facility in the north of the country, to turn the Balkan nation into a major hub for Russian energy supplies to Europe.

But the pipeline deal with Serbia apparently comes at a price. Some Serbian officials said that Russia's initial offer of $600 million (400 million euros) for a 51 percent stake in NIS represented just one-fifth of the company's market value.

Gazprom and Serbian officials have haggled over terms, triggering infighting in the Serbian Cabinet. It was not clear if Russia bettered the offer, but the small pro-Western G-17 party said Tuesday the terms of the deal are still unfavorable to Serbia.

Belgrade has turned increasingly away from the West and toward Russia, which supports Serbia's refusal to accept independence for its southern province of Kosovo.

Serbia's nationalist prime minister, Vojislav Kostunica, who pushed hard for the contract with Moscow, said the "strategic" deal with Russia will give Serbia a reliable supply of energy "for the coming decades."


Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremic said in neighboring Romania on Tuesday that "it is an important strategic deal that has to do with securing energy supplies to Serbia ... and the rest of the Western Balkans."

Kostunica has denied accusations by the opposition that favorable terms for Russia in the deal amounted to payback for Moscow's support over Kosovo.

"The deal is the direct result of an agreement between Russian and Serbian politicians, with Kostunica and his people standing to make political gains over it," said Misa Brkic, a Serbian economic analyst.

He and other analysts also said that the main pro-Western faction within Kostunica's Cabinet, the Democratic Party, dropped its opposition to the deal because it needs the prime minister's support if its candidate, incumbent President Boris Tadic, is to defeat an ultranationalist challenger in the country's runoff presidential vote on Feb. 3.

South Stream was announced last year by OAO Gazprom, Russia's state gas monopoly, and Italy's ENI SpA, which set up a joint venture to study the 550-mile, $10 billion (6.8 billion euros) pipeline project.

South Stream would run under the Black Sea from Russia to Bulgaria, and from there could split off in several directions: north through Hungary to reach Austria, south through Greece and on to Otranto, a port near the southeastern tip of Italy, and west to Serbia.

Gazprom's policies, and the Kremlin's confrontational approach to the West, have raised fears that Russia, and even Serbia, would use their control of energy supplies to the West for political leverage - threatening to cut off countries that oppose their policies, and rewarding those that support them.

South Stream would undercut the parallel Nabucco pipeline project - sponsored by the United States and the European Union - and dash the EU's hopes of reducing its growing reliance on Russia, which now supplies up to 40 percent of Europe's gas and up to a third of the oil imports of some European countries.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 05:03:16 PM by JR-Obilic »
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Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 05:21:34 PM »
So I'm right it's not about Serbia but oil, The Russia Iran and Wenezueala are against US, Mexico, EU and Saudi Barbaria. Both sides are wiling to make diabolic pacts with muslimes to secure the energy resources.... and more important the profits for their oil companies pays the politicians. JTF is right to advocate the use of alternative energy sources.     
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 05:28:20 PM »
It's not just about oil.  Racially, Serbs and Russians are both slavic and we share the same religion.  This is the main reason for our brotherhood.  Just look at our flags, we both share the double headed eagle.  Also, that they supported us through all our wars and gave us weapons and money, even when they were much poorer then they are now.  This was way before any oil deals.  They also vetoed against Albanian Kosovo in the UN.  Let me put it this way, if Russia was in the position US is in right now none of this fukery would be happening to us Serbs, i guarantee u that.  It's the Muslim and Catholic nazis that want to destroy Serbs, Russians are friends of Serbia and if it wasn't for them Hitler would probably be ruling Europe today.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 05:31:11 PM by JR-Obilic »
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Offline Gruzinit

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 02:11:06 AM »
While the Slavic relations between Russia and Serbia have been strengthened, it finally has the oppurtunity to promote a strong Pan-Slavic movement that has been as strong since prior to WWI.

Despite its resentment towards Russia, Georgia will be equally converned about what's going on in the Balkans. Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two provinces that have broken away from Georgia,leading to a bloody and violent war, will use the Kosovo precedent to demand recognition as independent nations, since the currently have defacto status.
The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. – Alexis de Tocqueville

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Offline JTFFan

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 02:11:10 AM »
It's not just about oil.  Racially, Serbs and Russians are both slavic and we share the same religion.  This is the main reason for our brotherhood.  Just look at our flags, we both share the double headed eagle.  Also, that they supported us through all our wars and gave us weapons and money, even when they were much poorer then they are now.  This was way before any oil deals.  They also vetoed against Albanian Kosovo in the UN.  Let me put it this way, if Russia was in the position US is in right now none of this fukery would be happening to us Serbs, i guarantee u that.  It's the Muslim and Catholic nazis that want to destroy Serbs, Russians are friends of Serbia and if it wasn't for them Hitler would probably be ruling Europe today.

Yes, there also Russian Orthodox brothers that unite with Serbian Orthodox brothers O0

Offline ASHISH

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 02:29:17 AM »
Its sad to to non muslim countries fight each other over muslim countries and give them all the benefits india vs china because of pakistan. russia vs usa because of kosovo :-\

Offline Masha

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 03:11:33 AM »
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two provinces that have broken away from Georgia,leading to a bloody and violent war, will use the Kosovo precedent to demand recognition as independent nations, since the currently have defacto status.

That's true.

As for Russia, it has done very little in practical support for Serbia. Even though the Russian people, on a personal level, are very sympathetic towards the Serbian plight, the government has not been supportive enough. They could have done a lot more.

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 03:15:02 PM »
The answer is that US does the same thing and Russia can't isolate themselves from the Muslim world if the US is trying to be friendly with them, or they would make Russia out to be the attackers of Islam and Americans to be their liberators and isolate Russia in the international arena even more then they already have.  We don't support ISlamic Radicals but first and foremost we are just trying to protect what's ours and that becomes very difficult when the US is funding muslim radicals against us and trying to make the Serbian cause into strictly some kind of Radical Christian Crusade in the eyes of the Muslim/Western world.  I believe the Muslims are entitled to their own countries but they are not welcome in the Balkans to build up their own nations, where America has already created 2 muslim states.
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Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 03:22:22 PM »
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two provinces that have broken away from Georgia,leading to a bloody and violent war, will use the Kosovo precedent to demand recognition as independent nations, since the currently have defacto status.

That's true.

As for Russia, it has done very little in practical support for Serbia. Even though the Russian people, on a personal level, are very sympathetic towards the Serbian plight, the government has not been supportive enough. They could have done a lot more.

You have to realize how poor Russia was in 99.  Their still very poor and are being strong armed by the west, but despite that they helped us more then anyone.  More then i can say for our supposed allies the Greeks and Macedonians who as far as i know support indiependance of Kosovo.

Russia has:

- given us weapons
- publicly supported our cause
- used their veto power at the UN to help us
- sent soldiers to help us

I don't know what else we can expect from another developing country.  What i'm wondering is why Israel doesn't help us more when Serbs would understand their cause better then any1 in that region.  Everywhere i look i see some left-wing pro-AMerican jew trying to smear Serbs.  Thank god for JTF.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 05:08:01 PM by JR-Obilic »
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Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 06:07:01 PM »
I don't understand why Russia has sense when it comes to Serbia but not when it comes to The Arab and Iranian Muslims.

Maybe it's because Russia and Serbia are both Eastern Orthodox Christian countires but the regime in Russia is self-hating Bolshevik so they are against religion so it doesn't really make sense.


Russia considers USA , China and , to a lesser extent, the EU as potential enemies.
Russia does not consider Iran as a danger. They make money by selling weapons.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 06:11:01 PM »
Actually Russia and China support eachother and they both support Serbia.  ANd if your gonna talk about Russia selling things to Iran then in all fairness, u also need to bring up all the support the Muslim Nazis have been receiving from America because Russia's so called "support" of muslims pales in comparison to Americas.  And yea like i said before, America is a bigger danger to Serb and Russian Christians then Iran, who at no time has ever done anything hostile toward our countries. 

America supports muslim terrorists to kill our children!  None of these are from IRAN!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 06:13:41 PM by JR-Obilic »
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Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 06:12:37 PM »
Actually Russia and China support eachother and they both support Serbia.  ANd if your gonna talk about Russia selling things to Iran then in all fairness, u also need to bring up all the support the Muslim Nazis have been receiving from America because Russia's so called "support" of muslims pales in comparison to Americas.
Russia considers China as the long-term tread because Chinese people are already populating Siberia, in order to annexate it.

Of course, it is true the USA sells weapons to the muzzies themselves.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 06:16:19 PM »
I've heard similar claims, but trust me when i tell you that Russia is mainly worried about their muslim population and the West, not the Chinese. 
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Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 06:37:02 PM »
I've heard similar claims, but trust me when i tell you that Russia is mainly worried about their muslim population and the West, not the Chinese. 
I think you are wrong. Muslim problem is less than the chinese problem.
muslims are economically dependant on Russia.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline JR-Obilic

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2008, 07:14:18 PM »
Maybe your right.  I have no idea bout the actual political situation, but I just know that all the Russian people I know aren't really fearful of China but hate Chechens.
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Offline Masha

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2008, 07:53:29 PM »
What i'm wondering is why Israel doesn't help us more when Serbs would understand their cause better then any1 in that region.  Everywhere i look i see some left-wing pro-AMerican jew trying to smear Serbs.  Thank G-d for JTF.

Because Israel has a traitor government and the Israeli population have been indoctrinated with liberal ideology for two generations.  :( >:(

Offline Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2008, 11:27:09 PM »
you stole the words from my mouth:P

Offline JTFFan

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2008, 02:33:43 AM »
I've heard similar claims, but trust me when i tell you that Russia is mainly worried about their muslim population and the West, not the Chinese. 
I think you are wrong. Muslim problem is less than the chinese problem.
muslims are economically dependant on Russia.

yeah, but in a way they are both major threats :o >:(

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Kosovo's independence strengthens Russia's influence...
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2008, 11:23:49 AM »
Maybe your right.  I have no idea bout the actual political situation, but I just know that all the Russian people I know aren't really fearful of China but hate Chechens.
The chechens are a problem of the past. They had independence under the Tsar, and now under Putin they regained independence.
Without Russia, these muslims are nothing.
These apes, just like the turkmenians, the kazakstanians, etc,... had no culture of their own,  like animals in the desert, driving horses, raping goats and women, and shooting eachother with bows . They can't survive without Europeans taking care of them.
That's why these chechen sub-humans are emigrating to EU, because here they get affirmative action support.
It was a dirty war, that Russia easily could have won, but, under Yeltsin, the politicians were so corrupt, that politics prevented the military to solve this little problem.

The 20% muslims in Russia itself, can be controlled, because Russia will assimilate them, and
Russia is a State that doesn't give a **** about the human rights of it's citizens.
Therefore, the muzzies will not be able to fight the Russians.
Russia's Orthodox Church, by the person of Patriarch Alexei II, is having a lot of power in the Kremlin.

That is not comparable with other European states.

The chinese are a totally different story.
In contrast to the muslims and arabs (±75IQ) , chinese actually have comparable or even slightly higher IQ's (104 IQ) tha Russians.

They have a highly structured state, that is able of producing weapons of mass-destruction.
China is in a aggressively expanding phase of its history.
Also, the chinese want to invade Siberia, and are already sneaking in in order to populate that area.

I hope Russia keeps up the technological superiority over china, because I don't want Chinese capturing Moskou, and invading Europe.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.