Christian Zionist groups: Giving to the wrong "Jewish" organizations?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/142374

(IsraelNN.com) A pro-Israel Christian group that donates millions of dollars to Jewish Agency projects is seeking to be recognized with the same status as the United Jewish Communities and Keren HaYesod. American Jewish opposition is holding up an agreement whereby the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ) would double it contributions to $45 million over the next three years.

The proposed agreement also calls for the group's Jewish founder and director to become a voting member of the Jewish Agency's executive board. IFCJ also wants its name posted alongside that of Jewish agencies on signs dedicating projects.

Now as far as I'm aware, the Jewish agency is one of these "Jewish" organizations that probably is less Jewish than the Christian zionists.  Is there a way we can influence the Christian zionists to start giving to Kahanist-type rightwing causes in the interest of Israel?  There is a ton of money being exchanged here.  Perhaps a piece of this pie could enable a Kahanist movement.  Imagine the merit for the righteous gentiles in having a hand in that!

[Raulmarrio2000]

I am not concerned about the wrong organizations. I am concerned about those Christians who donate millions "for free". They also support Israeli rights on all EY, but why? And what would be the fate of Judaism and Noahides, if Israel is saved economically and diplomatically by them?
What if in 20 years yime, or even sooner, we have a Christian version of todays' Islamic terror???
How can a Christian pro-Israel, but obviously anti-judaic leader be a member of the Jewish Agency?
I see it as another attempt to hijack the Holy Land, centre of the world, and then the world itself.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

It's true that all of the "Jewish" groups that these evangelical Christians are supporting are self-hating leftists. The Christians are helping to finance Israel's destruction by giving money to these assimilated self-hating Jews. The Jewish Agency, the Jewish National Fund, and the United Jewish Communities (formerly the United Jewish Appeal) are all worse enemies of Israel than Hamas, Fatah and Iran. The Christians do not understand that the self-hating Jewish establishment in Israel and America favors the creation of an independent Muslim terrorist state in Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Jerusalem - an action that constitutes national suicide for tiny Israel. If these Christian groups are sincere, then they should shift their support to JTF and its allies in Israel which are the best hope for preventing Israeli national suicide.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Well, for me the problem is not exactly their mistake in what Jewish organization they help. The problem is that it is a new disguised form of Christian Messianism. I wouldn't worry if the Catholic Church, the Christian Orthodox, the Copts or anyother traditional Church decided to support Israel as far as they are sincere and not aming to missionize. But these Evangelicals.....I consider them Fundamentalist, and enemies of Huamnity, not only enemies of the Jews. I don'r care if some of them wanted to help as an indiviadual, but I'd never accept anything of them as a religious organization.
And if any of them is really accepted as a member of the Jewish Agency, then, that's the end.

Just read this:

And, finally, Bible-believing Jews and Christians are beginning to understand that Judeo-Christian values themselves are under attack. Many societies face a situation where core values the belief in G-d and the 10 commandments, a commitment to morality are slipping away. To stem this tide, it is imperative the Jews and Christians work together.

It is said in the Bible, “Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their work” (Ecclesiastes 4:9). In the healing of the ages-old rift between Christians and Jews, we can witness the truth of these biblical words!

With prayers for shalom, peace,


Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein

Who is that Rav who is implying that the Assereth HaDevarim are a guide for Gentiles, instead instead the Noahide Laws?

http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/rabbi/christian_jewish_relations/
http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/homenew/

I support many Jewish orgs in Argentina which work with, and link to the Sochnut. If the Sochnut accepts a Fundamentalist Evangelical as a member, and the Jewish Community here continue working with the Sochnut, then I shall have no other alternative than stopping all contact or support to them. Really sad and frightening.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Most of the $ circulated wont really end up doing that much great (both from Jewish and Christian sources). Maybe they dont have the merit for their $ to go so far and thus produce a great value (its not necessarily a put-down, but everyone merits and doesn't merit making something of themselves and their investments (spiritual investments). I personally have a problem (so does Rambam) with praising certain groups, actually any group that isn't Jewish, or that is not Jewish religious, and giving them honor and praise and making the impression that they, or this or that movement is out savior. Be in "christain zionists" or the secular zionists/hellinists . Saying that someone in these different groups are praiseworthy, etc. is wrong and a Hillul Hashe-m. Nor should a person (a Jew) relly on anyone. If G-d wants it will happen, if not then no. Confidence in G-d is the main thing, not confidence in people.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Most of the $ circulated wont really end up doing that much great (both from Jewish and Christian sources). Maybe they dont have the merit for their $ to go so far and thus produce a great value (its not necessarily a put-down, but everyone merits and doesn't merit making something of themselves and their investments (spiritual investments). I personally have a problem (so does Rambam) with praising certain groups, actually any group that isn't Jewish, or that is not Jewish religious, and giving them honor and praise and making the impression that they, or this or that movement is out savior. Be in "christain zionists" or the secular zionists/hellinists . Saying that someone in these different groups are praiseworthy, etc. is wrong and a Hillul Hashem. Nor should a person (a Jew) relly on anyone. If G-d wants it will happen, if not then no. Confidence in G-d is the main thing, not confidence in people.

Tzvi I don't know where you got this idea from of 'this or that movement is our savior.'  Chas Veshalom. Nowhere did I ever say that some political movement or any entity is a 'savior.'  Seriously, from where do you get this?

"Saying that someone in these different groups are praiseworthy, etc. is wrong and a Hillul Hashem"

There is a difference between appreciation, working together, common goals, feelings of friendship, vs your reference to 'praising.'  Are you suggesting praising in the use of the word as in "praise Hashem" that I would apply this to something else?-Again, Chas veshalom that I would say such a thing.  Why do you insist on twisting my words Tzvi?  Or do you mean in the generic sense of the word?  What is wrong with pointing out common goals and seeking to work together?  Or the word praiseworthy in of itself, what is wrong with it?:
  "Praiseworthy (or blessed) is the man who trusts in Hashem and makes Hashem the object of his trust."  I seem to say this every day Tzvi.  Oh that's right, its from birchat hamazon.  Do you know how many times the phrase "praiseworthy is the man who..." appears in tehillim, Tzvi?  It is not a chillul Hashem when we say tehillim so your point is lost on me in more ways than one. 

Nor should a person (a Jew) relly on anyone. If G-d wants it will happen, if not then no. Confidence in G-d is the main thing, not confidence in people.

I don't know where you got it from Tzvi that I seek to rely on people rather than Hashem.  Why do you twist my words so and speak in my name such profanity?  Looking to work together with people who have common goals and happen to also be righteous believers and seeking genuinely to help us is not relying on people.  In fact that is one of the missions of JTF as I've heard Chaim explain many times.  In case you didn't notice Tzvi, this movement is about activism.  We are supposed to put in our effort and do our part to work towards the righteous goal.  While you are throwing around the chillul Hashem accusations, of course you must also know what a grave sin it is to rely on miracles.  We CANNOT do that. 

"If G-d wants it will happen, if not then no."

Well Tzvi this statement by itself is true, but it is no excuse for not looking to do as best as we can in all opportunities available to us.  It is not an excuse for inaction as you imply it is in the context of your statement because we all know that would be a grave sin to just sit back and rely on miracles.  You know what they say about glass houses Tzvi.

Please don't misrepresent what I write and then go on tirades over straw men.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

The Christians don't know who to get in touch with, its an awkward alliance between left-wing Jews and right-wing christians.... it won't work out

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Kahane was right BT, relax I wasn't referring it to you, I was just speaking in general terms.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Is there noone here who worries about this threat?

[RationalThought110]

Do we have the contact information of any of the Christian Zionist groups so we could send them letters to inform them of their errors so they'll know better in the future?

[Masha]

Do we have the contact information of any of the Christian Zionist groups so we could send them letters to inform them of their errors so they'll know better in the future?

There is a Christian Zionist forum on "Israel my beloved" site. One can google it. But it's not very active. However, there might be more people who read it then those who write there. Stan Goodenough, who is the administrator, has a blog "Jerusalem Watchman," where one can comment.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

Kahane was right BT, relax I wasn't referring it to you, I was just speaking in general terms.

At that time it was needed, because if we hadn't made it clear up front there would be lots of proselytizing

[Raulmarrio2000]

Do we have the contact information of any of the Christian Zionist groups so we could send them letters to inform them of their errors so they'll know better in the future?

Why contacting them? I seems noone here cares about my warnings. Do you really support this threat to Judaism, Noahides and Mankind???.
I have no problem with any human being who is honest and wants to help. One can be Zionist for the sake of justice and keep any religion or cult in his private life, but theose who make Zionism a part of their cult are very dangerous!!!!!!! Don't you know that those Fundamentalist Evangelicals are a dangerous cult even to other Christians??
Does JTF really support this danger??? If so, I must leave this forum at once!!!!! Sorry....

[RationalThought110]

The Christians don't know who to get in touch with, its an awkward alliance between left-wing Jews and right-wing christians.... it won't work out

Christian Zionists don't want to be aligned with left-wing Jews who support moveon.org, who defend Obama, who think Soros is just a "philanthropist", etc.

[RationalThought110]

Do we have the contact information of any of the Christian Zionist groups so we could send them letters to inform them of their errors so they'll know better in the future?

Why contacting them? I seems noone here cares about my warnings. Do you really support this threat to Judaism, Noahides and Mankind???.
I have no problem with any human being who is honest and wants to help. One can be Zionist for the sake of justice and keep any religion or cult in his private life, but theose who make Zionism a part of their cult are very dangerous!!!!!!! Don't you know that those Fundamentalist Evangelicals are a dangerous cult even to other Christians??
Does JTF really support this danger??? If so, I must leave this forum at once!!!!! Sorry....

Are you referring to someone like Pat Robertson?

[Raulmarrio2000]

Do we have the contact information of any of the Christian Zionist groups so we could send them letters to inform them of their errors so they'll know better in the future?

Why contacting them? I seems noone here cares about my warnings. Do you really support this threat to Judaism, Noahides and Mankind???.
I have no problem with any human being who is honest and wants to help. One can be Zionist for the sake of justice and keep any religion or cult in his private life, but theose who make Zionism a part of their cult are very dangerous!!!!!!! Don't you know that those Fundamentalist Evangelicals are a dangerous cult even to other Christians??
Does JTF really support this danger??? If so, I must leave this forum at once!!!!! Sorry....

Are you referring to someone like Pat Robertson?

I don't know who is Robertson. I only say that many of the Fundamentalist Evangelicals believe and teach that their Church will be "Rapted" to Heaven, and the rest of Mankind including Jews and other Christians will be under the rule of the satan until they are murdered.

[Vito]

How about this.. why don't we find out which Christian Zionist groups there are, and contact all of them?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Christian Zionists give ignorantly to UJA and the ADL because they don't know JTF exists.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

How about this.. why don't we find out which Christian Zionist groups there are, and contact all of them?

That sounds like a great idea.  One way or another they want to give money to Israel and I bet if they knew a right-wing org. like this existed that wants to comply with G-d's commandments, they would be thrilled.

There was a big group of Mike Huckabee supporters that put together a big petition saying not to divide Jerusalem.  Mostly gentiles.  I think it was called Jerusalem prayer team or something.  It shames me as a Jew that our own traitor Jewish organizations care less about the Torah than some goyim do.  But I admire the righteousness of the goyim for it, and I think we ought to work together.

[Dr. Dan]

Most of the $ circulated wont really end up doing that much great (both from Jewish and Christian sources). Maybe they dont have the merit for their $ to go so far and thus produce a great value (its not necessarily a put-down, but everyone merits and doesn't merit making something of themselves and their investments (spiritual investments). I personally have a problem (so does Rambam) with praising certain groups, actually any group that isn't Jewish, or that is not Jewish religious, and giving them honor and praise and making the impression that they, or this or that movement is out savior. Be in "christain zionists" or the secular zionists/hellinists . Saying that someone in these different groups are praiseworthy, etc. is wrong and a Hillul Hashem. Nor should a person (a Jew) relly on anyone. If G-d wants it will happen, if not then no. Confidence in G-d is the main thing, not confidence in people.

I, too, see it similarly.

It's good to receive help from non Jews when it is sincere.  However, if a mass of non-Jews are helping the Jewish cause, the leadership should be a righteous Jew, like Chaim...and it needs to be a movement filled with Jews, like JTF.

However, to sit back and wait for miracles and do nothing and wait for Gd to do everything, isn't enough.  We should our heart in soul i our handy work and pray for success at the same time.

[RationalThought110]

Christian Zionists give ignorantly to UJA and the ADL because they don't know JTF exists.

Ann Coulter has stated countless times that the ADL is a very-liberal group that only cares about themselves and that really does nothing to defend Jews.  I thought there are many conservatives who read some of her columns.