can a kohen be the messiah?

[q_q_]

can a kohen be the messiah?

was rabbi meir kahane a kohen?

(nobody draw conclusions! we all accept the rambam, that if the man dies , or rather, "is killed", then he cannot be the messiah!)

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

No,

  (their is an opinion that if he doesn't come from Ben David he can come from someone else, but it is not accepted, Ben David will come from David).


And Rabbi Kahane was a Kohen.

[q_q_]

(their is an opinion that if he doesn't come from Ben David he can come from someone else, but it is not accepted, Ben David will come from David).

whose opinion is it that he can come from somebody else?

[kahaneloyalist]

Ben David must be from David HaMelech, but the Vilan Gaon writes of the other Mashiach, Mashiach Ben Yosef who comes first. The Vilna Gaon's students in his name said in Kol HaTor; Mashiach Ben Yosef would be a Kohen.

[Lubab]

No.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

where does  it say that there will be a Messiah Ben Yosef

http://www.yedidnefesh.com/kaballah/kol-hator/index.htm
 Amoung other places. - This is from the teachings of the Vilna Gaon, written by his student.
 Also found in the Zohar, Talmud, and Midrashim.

[q_q_]

what tribe was David from? (presumably not a kohen, and that is why moshiach ben dovid cannot be a cohen ?)

Interesting that anybody says Moshiach ben yosef can be a kohen. Yosef was not a cohen or levi.   (Levi was Yosef`s brother, and Cohanim are a subset of leviim)

[OdKahaneChai]

what tribe was David from? (presumably not a kohen, and that is why moshiach ben dovid cannot be a cohen ?)

Interesting that anybody says Moshiach ben yosef can be a kohen. Yosef was not a cohen or levi.   (Levi was Yosef`s brother, and Cohanim are a subset of leviim)

Dovid was from Yehudah.

[shimon]

david was from the tribe of judah. he was a decandent of peraz

[shimon]

whose dovid

[OdKahaneChai]

whose dovid

The King of Israel, whom the Messiah will come from.

[shimon]

whose dovid

The King of Israel, whom the Messiah will come from.

oh you mean david

[q_q_]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

[shimon]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

[OdKahaneChai]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

In proper Hebrew, it's Dovid.  I'm not Sephardi.

[OdKahaneChai]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

In proper Hebrew, it's Dovid.  I'm not Sefaradi.

dovid is in Yiddish, in Hebrew its David not pronounced like in English

Dovid is Loshon Kodesh, there's a Komotz under the Dalet...

If you're Sefardi fine, but you're not allowed to impose you own minhagim on other people.

[q_q_]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

dude (shimon). if you are that illiterate not to know that Dovid is ashkenazi pronunciation, or to understand my question  "do you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda?" 

If you are too illiterate to know that in this context, when I refer to yosef and david, I mean King David. Well, it makes you very unnreliable.

in a previous thread you confused the expression Gut Shabbos. Thinging it was hebrew corrupted by ashkenazim.  If  you are a self hating ashkenazi, then keep the self hate to yourself.

[shimon]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

dude (shimon). if you are that illiterate not to know that Dovid is ashkenazi pronunciation, or to understand my question  "do you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda?"  (classic/traditional) pronunciation is wrong. With no basis either.

If you are too illiterate to know that in this context, when I refer to yosef and david, I mean King David. Well, it makes you very unnreliable.

in a previous thread you confused the expression Gut Shabbos. Thinging it was hebrew corrupted by ashkenazim.  If  you are a self hating ashkenazi, then keep the self hate to yourself.

(I wrote david since that is the english name.  King David.  /  Dovid HaMelech   )

i never said hebrew was corrupted by anyone. but since we proud jews are making aliyah we should revert back to the customs of our ancestors who lived in ancient judea

[q_q_]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

dude (shimon). if you are that illiterate not to know that Dovid is ashkenazi pronunciation, or to understand my question  "do you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda?"  (classic/traditional) pronunciation is wrong. With no basis either.

If you are too illiterate to know that in this context, when I refer to yosef and david, I mean King David. Well, it makes you very unnreliable.

in a previous thread you confused the expression Gut Shabbos. Thinging it was hebrew corrupted by ashkenazim.  If  you are a self hating ashkenazi, then keep the self hate to yourself.

(I wrote david since that is the english name.  King David.  /  Dovid HaMelech   )

i never said hebrew was corrupted by anyone. but since we proud jews are making aliyah we should revert back to the customs of our ancestors who lived in ancient judea

Putting aside whether we should pronounce according to tradition or "custom" (you suggest the latter)

Ivrit/modern hebrew pronunciation, which seems  to be all you know, is not an ancient thing.

Infact, I think in judea`s analysis, I vagely recall, kamatz is  oh like boris, much like the ashkenazi way. 

[q_q_]

Can a Kohen be the messiah?

Was Rabbi Meir Kahane a Kohen?

(nobody draw conclusions! we all accept the Rambam, that if the man dies , or rather, "is killed", then he cannot be the messiah!)

A Kohen can be Mashiach Ben Yosef but not Mashiach Ben David. Either Rabbi Meir Kahane or his son Rabbi Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane were Mashiach Ben Yosef which can die but doesn't have to. Mashiach Ben David must be from Judah and can never die.

MBD will bring peace, so presumably will not be killed. But he can die naturally - AFTER he has done x y and z.

RAMBAM says if he is killed before he has done xyz then he is not the Messiah.
He does not say "if he is killed" or "if he dies" then he is not the messiah!
Nothing there about M living forever!
On the contrary, the RAMBAM says not to expect supernatural things.

What is your source that MBY must be a kohen? (i.e not a ben yosef) ?

[shimon]

ok shimon , so you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda? ok

no odkahanechai made a mistake his name ztl is david not dovid

dude (shimon). if you are that illiterate not to know that Dovid is ashkenazi pronunciation, or to understand my question  "do you mean King David is tribe of Yehuda?"  (classic/traditional) pronunciation is wrong. With no basis either.

If you are too illiterate to know that in this context, when I refer to yosef and david, I mean King David. Well, it makes you very unnreliable.

in a previous thread you confused the expression Gut Shabbos. Thinging it was hebrew corrupted by ashkenazim.  If  you are a self hating ashkenazi, then keep the self hate to yourself.

(I wrote david since that is the english name.  King David.  /  Dovid HaMelech   )

i never said hebrew was corrupted by anyone. but since we proud jews are making aliyah we should revert back to the customs of our ancestors who lived in ancient judea

Putting aside whether we should pronounce according to tradition or "custom" (you suggest the latter)

Ivrit/modern hebrew pronunciation, which seems  to be all you know, is not an ancient thing.

Infact, I think in judea`s analysis, I vagely recall, kamatz is  oh like boris, much like the ashkenazi way. 

its more closer to the ashkenaz pronounciation. and i never stated that modern hebrew is the real hebrew. if you want to learn hebrew don't take a hebrew class just read the tanach. but these days are the first times in thousand of years that the majority of jews can actually speak and understand hebrew so its still great even if its not the exact pronounciation

[q_q_]

<snip>
its more closer to the ashkenaz pronounciation. and i never stated that modern hebrew is the real hebrew. if you want to learn hebrew don't take a hebrew class just read the tanach. but these days are the first times in thousand of years that the majority of jews can actually speak and understand hebrew so its still great even if its not the exact pronounciation

Ivrit is "more closer" to the "ashkenaz" pronunciation? 
That is a subjective statement, and it`s wrong.

Is this meant to be some kind of argument for jews to throw away the ashkenazi and Sefaradi traditions of pronouncing hebrew?  or just for the ashkenazim to throw it out?

ashkenazi pronunciation is not like wearing the clothing customary in europe, like black hats.

All ashkenazim (to my knowledge) pronounce kamatz like the o in boris.  This is not some "custom". This is ancient tradition.  This is no reason to throw away divine tradition and exchange it for a man made pronounciation. What kind of nonsense are you talking.. Where is your religious belief that we have a tradition from sinai.

Ivrit - modern hebrew - is a man made pronounciation.  Yes, it is similar to ashkenazi and Sefaradi pronunciation. Is this some kind of argument to take it and throw away ashkenazi and Sefaradi pronounciation? What anti religious maliciousness..

If you want us all to adopt the same pronounciation, then do as judeanoncapta has, and look for the true pronounciation.

And by the way. You started this , not by fairly making your case. But by feigning obtusity, to pretend that the ashkenazi pronounciation does not exist.. And telling odkahanechai that he had pronounced Dovid wrongly. What is worse is that you present yourself now, not as typically obtuse or as an ignoramous. But as somebody who knew what he was doing, and had an agenda of getting rid of ashkenazi pronounciation, and expects everybody else to buy your dogma. So you just slipped it in. You didn`t fool anybody here though.. Maybe waste more time watching butterflies in the garden, and you will become more subtle.

[OdKahaneChai]

<snip>
its more closer to the ashkenaz pronounciation. and i never stated that modern hebrew is the real hebrew. if you want to learn hebrew don't take a hebrew class just read the tanach. but these days are the first times in thousand of years that the majority of jews can actually speak and understand hebrew so its still great even if its not the exact pronounciation

Ivrit is "more closer" to the "ashkenaz" pronunciation? 
That is a subjective statement, and it`s wrong.

Is this meant to be some kind of argument for jews to throw away the ashkenazi and Sefaradi traditions of pronouncing hebrew?  or just for the ashkenazim to throw it out?

ashkenazi pronunciation is not like wearing the clothing customary in europe, like black hats.

What's wrong with black hats?

[q_q_]

<snip>
its more closer to the ashkenaz pronounciation. and i never stated that modern hebrew is the real hebrew. if you want to learn hebrew don't take a hebrew class just read the tanach. but these days are the first times in thousand of years that the majority of jews can actually speak and understand hebrew so its still great even if its not the exact pronounciation

Ivrit is "more closer" to the "ashkenaz" pronunciation? 
That is a subjective statement, and it`s wrong.

Is this meant to be some kind of argument for jews to throw away the ashkenazi and Sefaradi traditions of pronouncing hebrew?  or just for the ashkenazim to throw it out?

ashkenazi pronunciation is not like wearing the clothing customary in europe, like black hats.

What's wrong with black hats?

Nothing. But,
there is the argument that customs do not cross time and space and when you move location permanently, they can drop off like rain off a raincoat. 

Black hats are not from sinai.
Pronounciation of hebrew are not invented customs. They are what we have today of a tradition going back to Sinai.

[OdKahaneChai]

<snip>
its more closer to the ashkenaz pronounciation. and i never stated that modern hebrew is the real hebrew. if you want to learn hebrew don't take a hebrew class just read the tanach. but these days are the first times in thousand of years that the majority of jews can actually speak and understand hebrew so its still great even if its not the exact pronounciation

Ivrit is "more closer" to the "ashkenaz" pronunciation? 
That is a subjective statement, and it`s wrong.

Is this meant to be some kind of argument for jews to throw away the ashkenazi and Sefaradi traditions of pronouncing hebrew?  or just for the ashkenazim to throw it out?

ashkenazi pronunciation is not like wearing the clothing customary in europe, like black hats.

What's wrong with black hats?

Nothing. But,
there is the argument that customs do not cross time and space and when you move location permanently, they can drop off like rain off a raincoat.  And black hats are not from sinai.

Black Hats aren't from Sinai, but a double covering is.  And a black hat is what most Ashkenazim chose to be their second covering.