Pathetic speech my dumb Satmur ghetto Rabbi gave

[jdl4ever]

It was Parashat Zachor.  The Rabbi said in his speech that when the Torah says we must wipe out Amalek it doesn't mean we should physically go out and wipe them out with fighting and weapons.  He said this isn't our way.  The Jews should just sit and learn Torah and by learning Torah that will take care of Amalek.  What an idiot.  Even better, is that his father was a survivor and lost his entire family in Europe in the Holocost.  Fools never learn.

[shimon]

It was Parashat Zachor.  The Rabbi said in his speech that when the Torah says we must wipe out Amalek it doesn't mean we should physically go out and wipe them out with fighting and weapons.  He said this isn't our way.  The Jews should just sit and learn Torah and by learning Torah that will take care of Amalek.  What an idiot.

what chutzpah it is to call a rabbi dumb. he is right in a way. amalek wanted the jews to have doubts with their belief in g-d and by learning torah we are fighting them. today it is imposible to find out who is amalek. but we as jews should make sure that we dont spare any jew haters in today's world

[jdl4ever]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

[DownwithIslam]

Jdl4ever I couldn't agree with you more. This ghetto mentality is what always gets jews killed. Some jews will never learn from the past.

[kahaneloyalist]

JDL, why do you keep going to that shul it sounds like the Rabbi there drives you nuts

[jdl4ever]

JDL, why do you keep going to that shul it sounds like the Rabbi there drives you nuts

Because I need to keep the Rabbi until I get married for Shidduch reasons and then I'm leaving the Shul like a hot potato.

[OdKahaneChai]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

[judeanoncapta]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

That is my point. You are so used to quoting drush in place of pshat that you did not even bother to explain to anyone that Amalek is the same numerical value as Safek(doubt).

It is so simple in your mind that it doesn't need an explanation.

[q_q_]

It was Parashat Zachor.  The Rabbi said in his speech that when the Torah says we must wipe out Amalek it doesn't mean we should physically go out and wipe them out with fighting and weapons.  He said this isn't our way.  The Jews should just sit and learn Torah and by learning Torah that will take care of Amalek.  What an idiot.  Even better, is that his father was a survivor and lost his entire family in Europe in the Holocost.  Fools never learn.

That is a stupid rabbi.  Good luck with the shudduch..

But if you are getting a shidduch, might you and your future wife have vastly different political views? seems a bit risky.

[OdKahaneChai]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

That is my point. You are so used to quoting drush in place of pshat that you did not even bother to explain to anyone that Amalek is the same numerical value as Safek(doubt).

It is so simple in your mind that it doesn't need an explanation.

So, what's your point?

[q_q_]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

That is my point. You are so used to quoting drush in place of pshat that you did not even bother to explain to anyone that Amalek is the same numerical value as Safek(doubt).

It is so simple in your mind that it doesn't need an explanation.

So, what's you point?

deary me!!!!!!!

[judeanoncapta]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

That is my point. You are so used to quoting drush in place of pshat that you did not even bother to explain to anyone that Amalek is the same numerical value as Safek(doubt).

It is so simple in your mind that it doesn't need an explanation.

So, what's your point?

My point was well-expressed, sir.

Please review.

[OdKahaneChai]

Yeah sure, I know what this Rabbi means.  He meant what he said that even if we know who Amalek is we shouldn't kill them but simply learn Torah.  And when our enemies rise up against us to kill us the Rabbi would say the same thing, don't fight them but simply learn Torah.  He's a full fledged fool.

We don't know who Amelek is.  Today we can only fulfill that Mitzvah by wiping out the Sofek.

That is my point. You are so used to quoting drush in place of pshat that you did not even bother to explain to anyone that Amalek is the same numerical value as Safek(doubt).

It is so simple in your mind that it doesn't need an explanation.

So, what's your point?

My point was well-expressed, sir.

Please review.

So are you claiming that you DO know who Amalek is today.  Because I'm curious as to who it is...

[q_q_]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

JNC did not state his reason why it is bad..

[judeanoncapta]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

JNC did not state his reason why it is bad..

You said it better than I could.

[newman]

Jdl4ever I couldn't agree with you more. This ghetto mentality is what always gets jews killed. Some jews will never learn from the past.

If it makes you feel better, mainstream christian clergymen are equally insane.

They think sitting around, praying to the cabinet maker and turning the other cheek will fix everything!

Society has become so morally vaccuous that even spiritual leaders can no longer identify evil even when it's holding them by the throat.

[OdKahaneChai]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

When did I bring up a Midrash?

And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah?  Once again, I'm quite curious...

[takebackourtemple]

   I would like to see all Satanmar Rabbis stripped of their Rabinical ordination by a Bait Din. Hopefully the Israeli government does not recognize Satanmar ordination. I think they still don't recognize non-orthodox Rabbis from the Reform and Conservative, but am not 100% sure.
   JDL4Ever, I recognize that it is important to get married and have children as commanded by the torah. I wish I could help you so you didn't have to have any association with this self-hating Jew but I can't even help myself. Looking back at things though, I personally recognize that hashem has come through for me when I have done Mitzvot. Perhaps this is a case, where hashem is asking you to put your faith in him as I'm sure you will make the right decision either way. I wish you the best of luck and will include you in my prayers this Shabbat.

[OdKahaneChai]

   I would like to see all Satmar Rabbis stripped of their Rabinical ordination by a Bait Din. Hopefully the Israeli government does not recognize Satanmar ordination. I think they still don't recognize non-orthodox Rabbis from the Reform and Conservative, but am not 100% sure.

Chas V'Sholom!  The Satmar Rebbe, ZTVK"L, was one of the Greatest Talmidei Chochomim to ever live, and even though I have some slight halachic differences with them, they are for the most part great Chossidim and Great Talmidei Chochomim.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

JDL if you want to get married, then do it threw a different way. If you really hate and disagree with the Rabbi, then simply dont go to him. Your title is innappropriate, and I would like to state that maybe he was saying one idea that comes out from the episode. If you dont want to learn from him or others like him, then dont go to them and on top of that use that to trash them. Anyway if your getting a wife from that community do you think your marriage will be going well if she finds out the way you refer to her Rav (or even Rav's in general). + even if you are right, the attitudes expressed are completly wrong, and you should watch the way you speak and refer to people.
 takeback- Who cares if the government accepts something or not? You think anyone really gives a Sh*t, if anything it will strenthen any Religious group knowing the eruv rav itself is fighting agains't you.

[q_q_]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

When did I bring up a Midrash?

And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah?  Once again, I'm quite curious...

i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.

you can forget the word midrash.

When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it

Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.

If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment.  And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed.  I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.

 

[q_q_]

<snip>
eruv rav itself is fighting agains't you.

at least they abide by the eruv ;-)

[OdKahaneChai]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

When did I bring up a Midrash?

And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah?  Once again, I'm quite curious...

i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.

you can forget the word midrash.

When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it

Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.

If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment.  And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed.  I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.

Ok, so it seems that we have a situation here where I'm Machmer, and you're Mekel.  And that's fine.  But don't tell me that I'm wrong.

[takebackourtemple]

at least they abide by the eruv ;-)

   In law they they might. In spirit, they are traitors. Just because they came from a Hassidic movement does not make them great. The Satmar Rebbe YS"Z should have been stripped of his rabbinical ordination for treason against Israel and false prophesy since he let his people think of him as a g-d.

[q_q_]

I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.

He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.

I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.

When did I bring up a Midrash?

And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah?  Once again, I'm quite curious...

i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.

you can forget the word midrash.

When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it

Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.

If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment.  And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed.  I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.

Ok, so it seems that we have a situation here where I'm Machmer, and you're Mekel.  And that's fine.  But don't tell me that I'm wrong.

machmir-strict,    mekel-lenient

It is not a matter of being strict or lenient..

It is a matter of you taking a drash literally.

You seem to think we are fulfilling the mitzva(obligation) of killing amalek, by studying torah or "removing doubts".   

Do you think that torah study is still the way to fulfill the obligation to kill amalek even after we identify them? I am sure you would not claim that.. That would be to the left of lenient!

It is a matter of you reading drash literally just as you read pshat.