Author Topic: Shalom! (Read 22339 times)

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2008, 02:06:37 PM »

".... for only a truly righteous person is capable of hating only that which deserves hatred and love only what worth loving. We must never be guided by hate, but rather guide our hate toward what is hateful."

Zelhar, with all due respect, I do not agree with you! So if someone hates me I will hate him and I will love only those who deserve to be loved! Kako zvuci starozavetno!

That is human's logic but not God's. You see, the huge difference is that we rely on Christ's logic ...He is our Logos!

What logic is to hate people who believe in Allah ( who they consider to be God) just because it is evil as you say??! But they think it is right and I should reject them for believing in something they think it is right and true! Absolutely not! You say you respect their choice but you don't! Instead of talking about how wrong Islam is, you all attack people who are actually victims of false ideology! Sorry guys, I don't understand all this hate! It is understandable to be irritated or angry by what certain Muslims do and to dislike that ideology but hating them soooo much is definitely not justifiable.

DALMACIJA · « **Reply #26 on:** March 30, 2008, 02:32:30 PM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb on March 30, 2008, 05:21:56 AM

Now I am talking to Orthodox Christians here.....I cannot imagine any true Christian to hate anybody except satan and antichrist! Read what Saint Nikolai Velimirovich said about hating the enemies. I strongly recommend you read the book "Prayers by the Lake" .
I am aware that Islam is not a very peaceful religion and I personally don't like it at all! But when it comes to people who accepted that religion I cannot judge them for being what they are. It is extremely difficult to be Christian but Lord never said it would be easy! I'm not saying that we should forget that Muslims did terrible things to our people in Kosovo, destroyed Churches, medieval monasteries...But G-d knows everything, sees everything..and waits patiently!
After all, we cannot expect justice on earth! We never believed in earthly kingdom!

I think that this is a fair thought.
You have a realistic point of view.

Enclosed I will add some more:

From a diplomatically point of view we must not trust the Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Muslims. We must also not trust those who ordered and prepared them to participate in the extermination of the Orthodox communities at the Balkans.

Zelhar · « **Reply #27 on:** March 30, 2008, 05:40:58 PM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb on March 30, 2008, 02:06:37 PM

".... for only a truly righteous person is capable of hating only that which deserves hatred and love only what worth loving. We must never be guided by hate, but rather guide our hate toward what is hateful."

Zelhar, with all due respect, I do not agree with you! So if someone hates me I will hate him and I will love only those who deserve to be loved! Kako zvuci starozavetno! That is human's logic but not G-d's. You see, the huge difference is that we rely on Christ's logic ...He is our Logos!

What logic is to hate people who believe in Allah ( who they consider to be G-d) just because it is evil as you say??! But they think it is right and I should reject them for believing in something they think it is right and true! Absolutely not! You say you respect their choice but you don't! Instead of talking about how wrong Islam is, you all attack people who are actually victims of false ideology! Sorry guys, I don't understand all this hate! It is understandable to be irritated or angry by what certain Muslims do and to dislike that ideology but hating them soooo much is definitely not justifiable.

When a man chose to believe in a false ideology which commands him to subdue, murder, rape and pillage all non-believers, than that man chose to be evil. I don't think you know enough about the islam, your opinion seems too naive. So for clearance, substitute 'muslim' by 'nazi' in your statements to understand why they make little sense to me. I have no problem with false ideology (such as yours for example) as long as it is not the genocidal kind.

DALMACIJA · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2008, 03:57:52 PM »

Jelena is not naive.

She just does not want to chose for hate.

Of course we condemn murders, criminals and Nazis.
But to say that a whole group of people which follows a certain religion is equal with the Nazis is just to far. Even if the majority is allied with a false theory you should not attack the weak the children and the women. Because that is no solution. You can overpower them if you destroy their leaders and convince them that they are following a wrong way. By trying to kill them all you will give them more arguments to continue their blind fight against you and you will make martyrs of them.

You must know your enemies. And you must resist them.
But never join them, never accept their way of thinking and their inferior values!

Just like David did not throw the spear to Saul when Saul tried to kill him.
If David had thrown the spear back he would become just like Saul.

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2008, 04:05:58 PM »

Not all Muslims kill and rape! I am sure that they do not choose to be evil especially not those who are truly religious among Muslims! They see Jihad as spiritual fight! I am not talking about fanatics who perhaps interpret Kuran wrongly! That is also possible!
I also don't have problem with your false ideology and wrong interpretation of the Tanach! The same way I respect you as a human being and your choice to believe in your God and your "Messiah" !

DALMACIJA · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2008, 04:11:06 PM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb on March 31, 2008, 04:05:58 PM

I also don't have problem with your false ideology and wrong interpretation of The Tanach! The same way I respect you as a human being and your choice to believe in your G-d and your "Messiah" !

Please Jelena,

Do not try to teach them to much.
They are free people to do what ever they want.
If they do not believe in Jesus that is something among them selves.
G-d is maybe using their position and the fact that they only recognize The Tanach?
Who knows. everything has it's purpose.

We should not continue this discussion about religion.

Serbs are the comrades of every honest Jews.
We showed our solidarity to the Jews during WW2 when we saved them from the hands of the Nazis.

Lets stop to look at our differences.
We are both anti Nazi and we have a lot in common with each other.

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2008, 04:30:31 PM »

Well, I don't want to argue! He said first that I believe in false ideology! I am strong Orthodox believer and if I were Jewish I would probably be ultra-orthodox!

Now you know how fanatical I am! Anyway, I was talking about Muslims not Jews!
You see, there cannot be deeper friendship between us ( Orthodox) and Jews and we all know why! I am too honest maybe and that is why they can't stand it!

Zelhar · « **Reply #32 on:** April 01, 2008, 04:35:58 AM »

Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 31, 2008, 03:57:52 PM

Jelena is not naive.

She just does not want to chose for hate.

Of course we condemn murders, criminals and Nazis.
But to say that a whole group of people which follows a certain religion is equal with the Nazis is just to far. Even if the majority is allied with a false theory you should not attack the weak the children and the women. Because that is no solution. You can overpower them if you destroy their leaders and convince them that they are following a wrong way. By trying to kill them all you will give them more arguments to continue their blind fight against you and you will make martyrs of them.

You must know your enemies. And you must resist them.
But never join them, never accept their way of thinking and their inferior values!

Just like David did not throw the spear to Saul when Saul tried to kill him.
If David had thrown the spear back he would become just like Saul.

With that I completely agree, I also chose not to hate, yet I oppose evil. And I do not suggest we should exterminate the Muslims nor indiscriminately slaying them.

Quote from: JelenaSrb on March 31, 2008, 04:05:58 PM

Not all Muslims kill and rape! I am sure that they do not choose to be evil especially not those who are truly religious among Muslims! They see Jihad as spiritual fight! I am not talking about fanatics who perhaps interpret Kuran wrongly! That is also possible!
I also don't have problem with your false ideology and wrong interpretation of The Tanach! The same way I respect you as a human being and your choice to believe in your G-d and your "Messiah" !

This is were I see your ideology as wrong- It's not fanatics who misinterpret Islam, Islam specifically commands believers to do what they do. It's true, not every Muslim kills and rape, butif you think it proves that Islam isn't about killing you're still wrong. I am using Nazi as analogy to Muslim, so you can understand why someone who claims to be a 'moderate and yet pious proud Nazi who has never committed murder' don't have my gratitude for being that.

Anyway this is what I referred as your false ideology, I said nothing about your religion, which I respect.

Ultra Requete · « **Reply #33 on:** April 01, 2008, 05:19:33 AM »

Do you checked the links I gave you? The "good" muslims are those who live acording to both Koran and Hadithes and those who're not backing up the jihad are "bad" muslims the hipocrites who're to be killed too:

Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.

"Qur'an 8:12 "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes."

Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, they shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible death

Isslam doesn't mean peace that's Sallam but submission the slavery to moon "god".

HiWarp · « **Reply #34 on:** April 01, 2008, 07:42:49 AM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb link=topic=18627.msg#msg date=

Now I am talking to Orthodox Christians here.....I cannot imagine any true Christian to hate anybody except satan and antichrist! Read what Saint Nikolai Velimirovich said about hating the enemies. I strongly recommend you read the book "Prayers by the Lake" .
I am aware that Islam is not a very peaceful religion and I personally don't like it at all! But when it comes to people who accepted that religion I cannot judge them for being what they are. It is extremely difficult to be Christian but Lord never said it would be easy! I'm not saying that we should forget that Muslims did terrible things to our people in Kosovo, destroyed Churches, medieval monasteries...But G-d knows everything, sees everything..and waits patiently!
After all, we cannot expect justice on earth! We never believed in earthly kingdom!

Since you are talking to Orthodox Christians, as one, I will answer you. It is possible to defend yourself against evil people who wish you and your loved ones dead by doing everything you can, including killing them, but without hate. Love your enemies is for YOUR benefit, not your enemies' benefit. It means whatever you do, do not do it with a burning hatred in your heart because it will damage you both spiritually and physically. It does not mean when someone is racing toward you with a gun or a knife, love them blindly, turn the other cheek and get shot or stabbed.

And, by the way, welcome aboard.

Ultra Requete · « **Reply #35 on:** April 01, 2008, 07:50:16 AM »

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. (20) On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

Proverbs 24: 17 Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice, (18) or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him.

http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

HiWarp you're briliant christianity is not budhism!

HiWarp · « **Reply #36 on:** April 01, 2008, 08:39:11 AM »

Quote from: Ultra Requete link=topic=18627.msg#msg date=

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for G-d’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. (20) On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

Proverbs 24: 17 Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice, (18) or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him.

http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

HiWarp you're briliant christianity is not budhism!

Exodus 22:2 If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. A thief must certainly make restitution, but if he has nothing, he must be sold to pay for his theft.

Genesis 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. 6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

Proverbs 25:26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked.

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." 38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Wayne Jude · « **Reply #37 on:** April 01, 2008, 09:02:42 AM »

Here is a place to seek alliances among Jew and gentile.Dispite my nom,all have showed me respect.I did not come here to argue but further the causes we have in commen.Thats what makes this web site and movement great.

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #38 on:** April 01, 2008, 02:29:02 PM »

Dear brother, you haven't read all my posts! I said previously that when a Christian defends himself or his loved ones he or she is allowed to kill! As it happens in war! I am talking about hate as a feeling that we should have only towards those who even Good God doesn't love because they cause most evil in this world or we are influenced by them when we sin! Have you forgot the fallen angel and his "followers"?! God doesn't hate any human being not even Muslims! Whenever I feel hate I always turn that hate towards them! Holy Fathers suggest we should do that!

HiWarp · « **Reply #39 on:** April 01, 2008, 02:53:35 PM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb link=topic=18627.msg#msg date=

Dear brother, you haven't read all my posts! I said previously that when a Christian defends himself or his loved ones he or she is allowed to kill! As it happens in war! I am talking about hate as a feeling that we should have only towards those who even Good G-d doesn't love because they cause most evil in this world or we are influenced by them when we sin! Have you forgot the fallen angel and his "followers"?! G-d doesn't hate any human being not even Muslims! Whenever I feel hate I always turn that hate towards them! Holy Fathers suggest we should do that!

I agree with you. In fact I would put it to you that even when defending yourself or your loved ones it is counterproductive to hate the person that is attacking you. I do not need to fill myself with hatred towards someone that wants me dead. I just need to make sure that he doesn't succeed in his attempt.

Wayne Jude · « **Reply #40 on:** April 02, 2008, 02:08:05 AM »

I was just saying peace is a Blessing from God.Our God!Not the moon bum the muslims worship.

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #41 on:** April 02, 2008, 04:18:29 PM »

Well, they do not know who God is but they have feelings towards some "force" ,I guess ,who they consider to be God and they call him Allah! The fact is that it becomes dangerous when they try to impose their religion on other people! In that case, we better kill them!!

Just kidding!

Еврей · « **Reply #42 on:** April 02, 2008, 04:21:39 PM »

Welcome,
by the way...
Serbia has my full support!

Americanhero1 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 02, 2008, 04:22:24 PM »

Welcome Aboard

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #44 on:** April 03, 2008, 05:11:16 AM »

Thank you all! I hope I will stay here for a while!

Rubi1965 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 03, 2008, 09:35:31 PM »

Quote from: JelenaSrb on March 31, 2008, 04:30:31 PM

Well, I don't want to argue! He said first that I believe in false ideology! I am strong Orthodox believer and if I were Jewish I would probably be ultra-orthodox! Now you know how fanatical I am! Anyway, I was talking about Muslims not Jews!
You see, there cannot be deeper friendship between us ( Orthodox) and Jews and we all know why! I am too honest maybe and that is why they can't stand it!

Who do you mean can't stand it, and what and why?! Please tell me...

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #46 on:** April 08, 2008, 05:18:33 AM »

Well, some Jews here can't stand my being too honest! That is my impression! As Orthodox Christian I believe Jews are not chosen people anymore since I believe in the New Testament as well! I will not talk about it anymore because I don't want to upset you!

Wayne Jude · « **Reply #47 on:** April 08, 2008, 08:50:32 AM »

You do realize the 12 disiples were ALL Jews.100% of the New Testiment was hand written by Jews.
Dont get upset.We Christians and Jews have commen enemies ,mabey you should try to focus on that.
wayne jude

JelenaSrb · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2008, 10:44:51 AM »

I don't want to upset them ! I am not upset at all!

I do realize they were Jews and I don't have problem with that! But they were Jews who accepted Christ and all Jews who became part of His mystical Body( Orthodox Church) are my dear brothers and sisters just like Greeks ,Russians etc etc

However, I respect other Jews as well even though they don't like Christ and Theotokos but that is their choice! So, generally speaking , they can't be chosen people and I don't understand Christians who say that they are.

Americanhero1 · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2008, 11:44:00 AM »

Welcome