Author Topic: Archives : Chaim Ben Pesach in the JDL - News Articles about the Tear Gassing  (Read 9343 times)

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Offline Archie

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For your reading pleasure:
« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 11:41:31 PM by Archie »

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2008, 08:39:27 PM »
Every single thing we see only proves that everything that Chaim tells us is true. Chaims version of the jdl's activity is always proven right because he was the actual one behind it all. Notice how the splinter groups' and their "leaders" are never mentioned.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2008, 08:45:43 PM »
send these links to kahane.org only saying..."any comments?"
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Wayne Jude

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2008, 08:53:42 PM »
 :)

Offline Archie

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2008, 08:55:59 PM »
Nah, I don't have time to waste with them loosers! Good idea though  ^-^

Irv Rubin was nothing more than a jealous troublemaking fraudster with a handfull of low life associates.

I love it when Chaim punks him ;D

Here's what IRV said in august 1985 (ridiculous):




Offline ape

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2008, 09:58:43 PM »
khana.org......bunch of fags~

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Archie

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Yeah, I can't believe that Yekutiel says that Rabbi Kahane , when he was in Israel, never really discussed about Chaim...

 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 09:50:10 AM by Archie »

Offline YESHA

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This is great. It is historic and a treasure. Wow! Well done to you. So vital!! :D

Zev

Offline YESHA

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Read this, it's facinating:

THE JDL AND SOVIET JEWRY
Understanding JDL’s role in Free Soviet Jewry movement
BY: LARRY HERSH Special to the CJN

 

Youthful members of the Jewish Defense League display signs and a coffin at 1971 demonstration in Public Square.
In the 1960s and ’70s, the plight of many Soviet Jews who were attempting unsuccessfully to emigrate became public.

At the time, the U.S. and Soviet Union were engaged in cultural-exchange programs. Touring the Soviet Union under U.S. State Department auspices were some of our symphony orchestras, concert pianists, Broadway dance companies, and jazz and swing ensembles. Touring the U.S. were two famous Russian ballet companies and a world-renowned Russian folk-dance company.
The situation for Jews wanting to leave the Soviet Union, however, only worsened, and the Free Soviet Jewry movement began. The first organized movement occurred here in Cleveland at The West Temple (see cover story). In time, a Free Soviet Jewry committee was established in every major city in the U.S.

However, the Free Soviet Jewry movement got nowhere. The Soviet Union did not answer letters and requests or respond to pleas. The U.S. State Department was not helpful either. our State Department felt that the U.S.-USSR cultural exchange program could not be jeopardized because of Jewish emigration requests. The attitude of the U.S. State Department and the USSR echoed attitudes of 1934-1938.

Then “the call” was made.


“The call” was always a telephone call to the Jewish Defense League (JDL), headed by the late Rabbi Meir Kahane zt”l, H”yd, and nationally headquartered in New York City.

“The call” came from someone at the synagogue or temple. Often it was the rabbi. The problem was explained; assistance requested and, always, the caller demanded anonymity, explaining that he could not be associated with hooliganism.

In response to these calls, JDL always made three requests: (1) Could the shul, temple, committee contribute manpower? (2) Could it contribute to the JDL? (3) Could it make a public statement praising the JDL?

The response was always the same. “We are respected, respectable people. We do not participate in rowdiness; though we appreciate JDL, we cannot condone JDL.”

Nonetheless, JDL immediately set about its task. This required finding a place or places to create disruption and turmoil without inflicting physical damage to people. The venue chose performances of the Soviet Russian dance company for the U.S./USSR cultural-exchange program.


The disruption must be civil disobedience rather than terrorism. People are not to be hurt. The hope is that attention will be paid to the wannabe émigrés. (See “Levels” list above)

The JDL’s actions worked. The Soviet Union and U.S. State Department did have a strong investment in the cultural-exchange program. Talks began involving the legislative offices of Cong. Charles Vanik (D-Ohio.) and Sen. Henry “Scoop”Jackson (D-Wash.), the Free Soviet Jewry committees, the Soviet foreign secretary, and the U.S. State Department.

JDL refused to participate in negotiations, deferring to the Free Soviet Jewry committees. Overtures to the JDL to “call off the dogs” were also refused, initially.

JDL did cease its civil-disobedience program to fulfill a request made by the Free Soviet Jewry committee, who felt it would make them look good if it were perceived that they had the power to “call off the dogs.”


The people who negotiated the freedom of Soviet Jews to emigrate should be forever praised. But it should never be forgotten that it was the late Rabbi Meir Kahane and JDL that brought the Soviet Union and the U.S. State Department to that negotiating table by rats, mice, stink bombs, smoke bombs, pickets, demonstrations, and thousands of young heroes lying in a D.C. street blocking traffic and accepting arrest.

The U.S. and USSR did not come willingly, but were rather dragged kicking and screaming to that pro-Jewish table. So? What else is new?

The JDL got Soviet and State Department attention.

Larry Hersh was Cleveland coordinator of JDL during the Free Soviet Jewry movement.


Levels of action taken by JDL

• Informational booths and tables politely talking to theater patrons about refuseniks.

• Peaceful picketing of doorways to the theater before the performance.

• Release of rats and/or mice throughout the theater in New York City during performances (in late 1960s and ’70s).

• Firing of stink bombs and smoke bombs in theater in New York.

• Peaceful demonstration, complete with permit, in Washington, D.C., in which demonstrators lay down in the street and had to be carried off, thereby disrupting traffic.

Offline Wayne Jude

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I love the rats and mice one!Never thaught of that one! O0

Offline Archie

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This is great. It is historic and a treasure. Wow! Well done to you. So vital!! :D

Zev

Thanks  ;)

I have better resolution scans of the articles, but the message size limit forced me to dilute the resolution of the images...

Anyway, I'm glad I found the articles. I always knew that Chaim is telling the Truth (yeah yeah, that sounds suck up, but it is the truth :::D).

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Kahane.org was never a "splinter" from the JDL, it was set up as part of Kahanist activities by members of Kahane Chai, which had split from Kach following the Rav's murder though most of the Kach chapters and activists went with them.

Yeah, I can't believe that Yekutiel says that Rabbi Kahane , when he was in Israel, never really discussed about Chaim...

 
None of these articles prove the reverse, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l right hand in Israel, Chaim led the JDL in America for a time, this fact doesnt prove anything in regards to Israel.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Archie

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Kahane.org was never a "splinter" from the JDL, it was set up as part of Kahanist activities by members of Kahane Chai, which had split from Kach following the Rav's murder though most of the Kach chapters and activists went with them.

Yeah, I can't believe that Yekutiel says that Rabbi Kahane , when he was in Israel, never really discussed about Chaim...

 
None of these articles prove the reverse, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l right hand in Israel, Chaim led the JDL in America for a time, this fact doesnt prove anything in regards to Israel.

Thanks for informing me  :)

Offline q_q_

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Re: Chaim against the Soviets - 86 to 88 - In the News
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 02:32:38 PM »
send these links to kahane.org only saying..."any comments?"

What the hell is wrong with you or anybody that keeps mentioning them. Stop mentioning that damn forum.. Or mention it if relevant, but stop mentioning it in the context of stirring things up.

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Kahane.org was never a "splinter" from the JDL, it was set up as part of Kahanist activities by members of Kahane Chai, which had split from Kach following the Rav's murder though most of the Kach chapters and activists went with them.

Yeah, I can't believe that Yekutiel says that Rabbi Kahane , when he was in Israel, never really discussed about Chaim...

 
None of these articles prove the reverse, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l right hand in Israel, Chaim led the JDL in America for a time, this fact doesnt prove anything in regards to Israel.

Kahaneloyalist, you amaze me.

Robert Friedman ys''v wrote a book and did many front page articles in the Village Voice about the Kahanist movement in America and Israel in the 1980s.

Friedman wrote about me many times, and actually made me the main subject of many of his Village Voice articles. Friedman attended the JDL convention at the Penta Hotel where Rabbi Kahane appointed me as National Chairman of the JDL, and Friedman writes about this in his book and in the Village Voice.

Friedman also wrote extensively about the Kach movement in Israel and about Rabbi Kahane's activities in Israel right up until the assassination. I have Friedman's evil book in front of me right now (I did NOT buy it, one of our JDL members took it out of the library and made copies.) Friedman mentions literally HUNDREDS of people who worked with Rabbi Kahane, or who had some contact or association with him in Israel.

BUT NO WHERE IN THE BOOK OR IN ANY OF THE VOICE ARTICLES IS MIKE GUZOFSKY (YEKUTIEL) MENTIONED. NOW IF YEKUTIEL WAS REALLY THE RABBI'S "RIGHT HAND", AS YOU AND HE CLAIM, WOULD HE NOT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED PROMINENTLY WHEN ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE WAS MENTIONED? HE WAS NEVER MENTIONED AT ALL!

After the Rabbi was murdered, Yekutiel claimed that the Rabbi gave him a letter in which it was stated that if anything happened, Yekutiel was to become the leader of the movement. And so Kach members demanded that Yekutiel show them the letter. Yekutiel stalled and evaded until he finally showed them a vague and generic letter from the Rabbi that did NOT say anything about Yekutiel becoming his successor. Rabbi Kroizer, Baruch Marzel, Moshe Naiman and many other Kach leaders attest to the fact that the letter was nothing and that Yekutiel was making false claims about the Rabbi appointing him as a successor. For years on his forum, Yekutiel continued to mention the letter as his proof. AND SO I ASK YEKUTIEL TO RELEASE THE LETTER. WE WILL REPRINT IN FULL ON OUR FORUM AND TRANSLATE IT. LET'S SEE THE LETTER!


Offline q_q_

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that is fantastic info.

archie the archivist , are you able to publish any of this on the forum?

TO CHAIM:
Chaim:  I have Libby Kahane`s biography of Rabbi Meir Kahane ztl, it covers  1932-1975


I have read it.. She says she does not want to repeat the story of the JDL, because that is in rabbi kahane`s story of the JDL book.  (she probably won`t care that much about the later stories with the JDL either)..

But she -is- interested in people sending her recollections of rabbi meir kahane.
If you have recollections, presumably after 1975 is better, then that would be ideal.  You could send them to her and you may get mentioned in volume 2.

I will include in this thread exactly the information she requested in the page at the end of her book.  And her email address.   

She was asked on radio if she knew you, and I think she said she knew of you.  I don`t suggest people here email her..or she could get a barrage of email as well meaning JTFers email en masse trying to get you in. But I do suggest that -you- contact her.

She gives her email address and a physical address, to send  her information.

Here is the last page of her book before the footnotes

"
Afterword

In the ensuing years, Meir devoted himself to teaching and influencing American Jews through his writing and lectures. However, he realised  ..... 
........
I  hope to discuss the events of 1976-1990  in a sequel to the present book and would appreciate personal recollections and documents conerning those years. Please send to ............ Email messages can be sent to .........
"

I remember you had some great stories, e.g. the guy who had the arm blown off. And you heard him ask his question to the rabbi.

There isn`t much violence in her book, so maybe try to avoid violent episodes!

she may be interested in other info, but first and foremost i would send her what suits best... And  you may get a mention in her book from it too.  Given your position in the JDL, and your feelings for the rabbi, you really merit a proper discussion with her.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 04:36:12 PM by q_q_ »

Offline Archie

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that is fantastic info.

archie the archivist , are you able to publish any of this on the forum?


Publish what? The ''letter'' from Rabbi Kahane to Yekutiel?

Well, I don't have it. I doubt that anyone will ever see that letter again, if it ever existed.

I mean, I know that Yekutiel has been living in Israel for more than 2 decades, but still...I made it into a serious research, and I didn't find any trace of him in the Printed Medias of the country, going back to the beginning of the 1900s. (I use digital media databanks to do so).

In summary, when he was living in the United States, he was just an average joe, totally ignored by the Press.

Funny that he became the Rav's right-hand man in Israel, and ''heir'' of the movement ''just like that''.

Rabbi Kahane was excellent in Public Relations. He was the best. Do you think he would have chosen someone with similar skills to carry on the legacy of the movement? (!)

I don't think Yekutiel is very gifted. I just find it infortunate that visitors of the kahane.org web site have to put up with his ugly mug.

Archie.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 07:20:48 PM by Archie »

Offline q_q_

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I was referring to the relevant articles from Village Voice, and the relevant pages from Freidman`s book.

Regarding Yekutiel , I don`t really know what he said about Chaim that should cause any ill feeling towards him.  He did allow attacks on JTF and chaim on his forum - for a long time, and after it calmed down, and DWI started posting attacks on his movement, he also allowed that, without even banning him!  There is an admin there, Doom777, who could have banned him but didn`t. Clearly they just have an open policy on their forum. It did give them a taste of their own medicine and get them to behave a bit better. But I think they had calmed down before that anyway. As far as what Yekutiel has said, he mentioned that he did hear the rabbi mention Chaim, (not like we need him to tell us that, but it was in the context of people saying nobody knew him). And he has spoken highly of the sacrifice Chaim has made..  and mentioned that chaim has good hebrew skills. And from what he has said, he doesn`t see himself as a leader trying to change things, he is just trying to spread kahanist ideas in the hope that a leader will crop up. The only thing I saw him write against JTF, was along the lines of "I don`t know what chaim thinks he is acheiving building up a mass movement". But that was just one comment, and after considerable harassement from DWI that he is nothing and chaim is great, and he doesn`t even consider himself to be starting up a movement to take over and change things..
The fact is, that Chaim was clearly a big JDL figure, and close to Rabbi Kahane. And Yekutiel probably has a history with him too. No reason to start a [censored] contest .  Or attack Yekutiel..
Maybe I missed some history on the forums.. But  I am speaking  from what I read on each.

It looks like a simple mistake of assuming that they run their forum like ours, banning people they don`t like, and that messages that were ever consistently on there, are not offensive to yekutiel.. But that would be a wrong assumption.

I may be wrong though.. I don`t really understand why a line is being taken against Yekutiel personally. Maybe I am missing facts or misanalysing.  If Chaim disagrees, I am probably wrong!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 05:50:59 PM by q_q_ »

Offline Archie

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I was referring to the relevant articles from Village Voice, and the relevant pages from Freidman`s book.



Ok. I understand you now! Sorry.

Yes, for the Friedman's book....and maybe (big chance of YES) for the Village Voice. I would need approximative dates...that would help a lot.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 06:11:57 PM by Archie »

Offline jdl4ever

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You can't bring any sort of proof from an AIDS infected parasite's book of lies about you and the JDL.  Yekutiel did lead a JDL camp in the US in the 80's and there is a Youtube video of this camp and he had a high level position in the Rav's party and was R' Binyamin Kahane's right hand man so there is good proof that he was indeed very close to R' Kahane Zs'l.  According to Yekutiel's own words, he got very close to the Rav in the final few years before he was assassinated since many people the Rav trusted abandoned him or stabbed him in the back.  Two eyewitnesses on the Kahane.org forum support Yekutiel's claim by the way.  I don't know anything about the letter story so I'll have to not comment about that since I really never heard this story before.  Let's see what Rebbitzen Kahane's second volume says about you and Yekutiel.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline DownwithIslam

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Kahane.org was never a "splinter" from the JDL, it was set up as part of Kahanist activities by members of Kahane Chai, which had split from Kach following the Rav's murder though most of the Kach chapters and activists went with them.

Yeah, I can't believe that Yekutiel says that Rabbi Kahane , when he was in Israel, never really discussed about Chaim...

 
None of these articles prove the reverse, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l right hand in Israel, Chaim led the JDL in America for a time, this fact doesnt prove anything in regards to Israel.

Kahaneloyalist, you amaze me.

Robert Friedman ys''v wrote a book and did many front page articles in the Village Voice about the Kahanist movement in America and Israel in the 1980s.

Friedman wrote about me many times, and actually made me the main subject of many of his Village Voice articles. Friedman attended the JDL convention at the Penta Hotel where Rabbi Kahane appointed me as National Chairman of the JDL, and Friedman writes about this in his book and in the Village Voice.

Friedman also wrote extensively about the Kach movement in Israel and about Rabbi Kahane's activities in Israel right up until the assassination. I have Friedman's evil book in front of me right now (I did NOT buy it, one of our JDL members took it out of the library and made copies.) Friedman mentions literally HUNDREDS of people who worked with Rabbi Kahane, or who had some contact or association with him in Israel.

BUT NO WHERE IN THE BOOK OR IN ANY OF THE VOICE ARTICLES IS MIKE GUZOFSKY (YEKUTIEL) MENTIONED. NOW IF YEKUTIEL WAS REALLY THE RABBI'S "RIGHT HAND", AS YOU AND HE CLAIM, WOULD HE NOT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED PROMINENTLY WHEN ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE WAS MENTIONED? HE WAS NEVER MENTIONED AT ALL!

After the Rabbi was murdered, Yekutiel claimed that the Rabbi gave him a letter in which it was stated that if anything happened, Yekutiel was to become the leader of the movement. And so Kach members demanded that Yekutiel show them the letter. Yekutiel stalled and evaded until he finally showed them a vague and generic letter from the Rabbi that did NOT say anything about Yekutiel becoming his successor. Rabbi Kroizer, Baruch Marzel, Moshe Naiman and many other Kach leaders attest to the fact that the letter was nothing and that Yekutiel was making false claims about the Rabbi appointing him as a successor. For years on his forum, Yekutiel continued to mention the letter as his proof. AND SO I ASK YEKUTIEL TO RELEASE THE LETTER. WE WILL REPRINT IN FULL ON OUR FORUM AND TRANSLATE IT. LET'S SEE THE LETTER!



Chaim, you are so right. How anyone could believe Guzzy is a joke. All the documentation proves that you were the only head of the jdl that did anything positive and your version is the only one factually correct. When guzzy is not stuffing his mouth with fleish, he is feeding his two or three member peanut gallery misinformation and distortions.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Wayne Jude

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There are always usurpers and always be ,unfortunatly.

Offline DownwithIslam

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JDL4EVER, of course you can bring proof from friedmans book. He is a homo aids infected parasite but the guy went to the jdl meeting and reported what was going on. He was employed by a paper and he was reporting for them. His mission was to expose right wing jews and if such a thing as "guzofsky" existed, he would of been exposed as well. Friedman was trying to hurt the jdl so guzzy would of been talked about and lied about had he in any way shape or form been an active jdl member. Besides, when I see what guzzy is accomplishing now and the way he now speaks, I see everything I need to know. How could a man like guzzy who can't get a proper sentence of english out of his mouth be the guy who managed to get jdl on the map and to be the powerful leader. The guy is a native born American and he seems so illiterate and stupid, pardon my language. The guy puts people to sleep. Are you telling me this was a man who was able to speak to the media and do what Chaim was able to do? Give me a freaking break!!!! Wake up!!
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline jdl4ever

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So DWI, if Chaim's name isn't stated in Rebbetzin Kahane's second volume of the Rav's biography will you say the same thing that you just said?  You are full of it.  Perhaps you don't realize that Yekutiel is a very humble guy and doesn't stand out; this is the reason why Friedman didn't pay attention to him.  Yekutiel is the type of person who is does a lot of action but talks very little, so many underestimated him.  He did serve 2 years in Israeli prison for his activities so he must have been doing something other than eating peanuts as you suggested.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD