Doom again defends the traitor informer Irv Rubin

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                בס''ד

Like Yekutiel, Doom defends and tries to minimize what the traitor informer Irv Rubin did to Rabbi Kahane, Jonathan Pollard, Reuven Manning, myself, Soviet Jewry, Israel and American Jewry.

Here is my response from another thread:
                           
Doom is again defending the traitor Irv Rubin but maliciously attacking JTF, which demonstrates that Doom is himself a traitor. ANYONE who defends Irv Rubin ימח שמו וזכרו שם רשעים ירקב after knowing what he did, is a traitor and a rat.

DOOM, LIKE MIKE GUZOFSKY, NOT ONLY DEFENDS RUBIN BUT EVEN ATTEMPTS TO MINIMIZE AND IN EFFECT JUSTIFY RUBIN'S CRIMES AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE. DOOM, YOU WILL SEE SOMEDAY, THAT YOU WILL BE PUNISHED FOR THIS. EITHER IN THIS WORLD OR IN THE NEXT OR BOTH. AND SO WILL EVERYONE ELSE ON THAT EVIL SPLINTER FORUM THAT ENGAGES IN THIS TYPE OF UNFORGIVABLE BEHAVIOR. HASHEM יתברך ויתעלה שמו WILL HEAR THE CRY OF OUR HEROES JONATHAN POLLARD AND REUVEN MANNING הי''ו AND OF THEIR NOBLE FAMILIES הי''ו AND WILL AVENGE ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE BETRAYED THEM, INCLUDING NOT ONLY IRV RUBIN, BUT ALSO YOU AND ALL OF RUBIN'S TRAITOR DEFENDERS.

You say that when Rubin urged 30 million Americans on the Merv Griffin national television program to not only oppose releasing Pollard but to give him the death penalty ר''ל, that that was not informing? That when you cause a great Jewish hero to spend the rest of his life in prison ח''ו or even try to get a great Jewish hero murdered, THAT is not informing? Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.

Here is the prayer on informing that Chazal placed in the Shmone Esre:

וְלַמַּלְשִׁינִים אַל תְּהִי תִקְוָה. וְכָל הַמִּינִים כְּרֶגַע יאבֵדוּ. וְכָל אויְבֵי עַמְּךָ מְהֵרָה יִכָּרֵתוּ. וְהַזֵדִים מְהֵרָה תְעַקֵּר וּתְשַׁבֵּר וּתְמַגֵּר וּתְכַלֵּם וְתַשְׁפִּילֵם וְתַכְנִיעֵם בִּמְהֵרָה בְיָמֵינוּ:
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה ה'. שׁובֵר אויְבִים וּמַכְנִיעַ זֵדִים:

This is actually a milder version of the original prayer that was instituted in Yavne after חורבן בית שני (the destruction of the Second Temple).

Before we get to what Chazal teach us about the meaning of this obligatory prayer, here is the translation:

"To the informers may there be no hope. And all heretics should disappear in a moment. And all enemies of Your people should quickly be cut off. And the evildoers, You should uproot, smash and destroy. And You should destroy them and humiliate them and defeat them quickly in our days. Blessed are You, G-d, Who smashes enemies and defeats evildoers."

This is a prayer that was added to the 18 tfilot that had existed before the destruction of the Second Temple. It was added by Raban Gamliel HaSheni (also known as Raban Gamliel HaZaken), with the נוסחה of HaTana Shmuel HaKatan.

Chazal teach us that informers and heretics and evildoers and enemies are all put in the same category in this prayer, because any Jew who tries to harm his fellow Jews is regarded as a "moser" (informer). This includes even heretics - see גמרא סנהדרין ל''ח and the Rambam הלכות רוצח פרק ד. ANY incitement to harm one's fellow Jews is מסירה (informing).

Doom, by JUSTIFYING this abomination and minimizing its seriousness, YOU also are guilty of מסירה. Because the evil and utterly un-Jewish attitude that you and Guzofsky and the others on that hideous forum display on this issue encourages and incites future informing. Not to mention that your lack of concern for what this did to Pollard, Manning and me proves that you have no genuine love for your fellow Jews.

And you even justify Rubin's monstrous remarks in the Village Voice - "I would not sit shiva if Meir Kahane dropped dead". You claim that Rubin meant that he is not Rabbi Kahane's relative, so he does not have to sit shiva, when you know DAMN WELL what Rubin really meant. Who do you think you're fooling? You're certainly not fooling G-d! YOU WILL YET PAY FOR YOUR JUSTIFICATION OF RUBIN SAYING THAT HE WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEE OUR HOLY RABBI DROP DEAD. YOU WILL PAY EITHER IN THIS WORLD OR THE NEXT OR BOTH.

You never knew Rabbi Kahane, and Guzofsky barely knew him. If our great Rabbi had seen people like you and Guzofsky and Eli Ben Meir (who condemned the teargassing of the Soviet ballet on your hideous forum), he would have thrown all of you out of our movement on your tucheses. The day will come when you will greatly regret your sins against Pollard, Manning, myself and Soviet Jews.

[doom777]

I've taken note of this, but i got class now. Expect a lengthy response later tonight.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim, ban this pedophile already. Anus-T banned FOTL for much less.

[Archie]

I'd like to hear his lengthy ''response'' masterpiece. 

[Wayne Jude]

He is probebly busy tainting research from sources right now!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I just learned that the Askenazi version of that prayer is different then the Sefardic one.

[DownwithIslam]

Chaim, I can't tell you how I have to hold myself back from using profanity against these cruel beasts who distort rabbi kahanes words and beliefs in an attempt to harm you. The splinter forum knows they are making as much progress in growing their movement as elliot spitzer has cut down his prostitution visits. Yekutiel is a sicko because of the way he makes it seem that chaim ben pesach never spoke to rabbi kahane. Doom777 is the type of memeber that they have. He hates righteous gentiles, he loves informers like rubin who stole about 90 grand from chaim and he hates jonothan pollard. He does love a bunch of so called jdl members like eli ben meir and meir jolowitz and bonnie pechter. That is the jdl that drek777 prefers. The only thing guzzy can be trusted with is making us a nice tasty potato kugel and a chulent because that is what the big fresser specializes in.

[DownwithIslam]

Chaim, as usual you have refuted the modern day kappos of the splinter forum with a super scholarly response. I learn so much from your posts and I thank you for that.

[MasterWolf1]

They seem to hate this forum but show up on this forum??

[jdl4ever]

Well, it's a good criticism.  I certainly think that Irv Rubin was a traitor for what he did to Pollard and to Chaim. 

[DownwithIslam]

Well, it's a good criticism.  I certainly think that Irv Rubin was a traitor for what he did to Pollard and to Chaim. 

Well Guzzy doesn't think so.

[jdl4ever]

Well, it's a good criticism.  I certainly think that Irv Rubin was a traitor for what he did to Pollard and to Chaim. 

Well Guzzy doesn't think so.

Does it matter?  I don't care too much if someone has a personal belief or two that is wrong.  I care about the action that they are doing and if the majority of their beliefs are correct and righteous. 

[TorahTruth]

Irv Rubin Z"L is a Jewish Martyr, who lost his life for being a Jew, and left his family because he was Jewish. He apologized and said he was wrong for what he said about Pollard. Do you believe in the concept of Teshuvah? Or because Chaim says Irv is bad he is automa BTW Yekutiel was arrested twice for Pollard, once outside his Pollard's jail while running Kahane Chai (can be found of youtube) and the other time for organizing a roadblock, and protest for Pollard. Other leaders of JDL have told me that Irv was the toughest Jew (besides Robert Manning). The story of how Rabbi Kahane met Bob Manning is a good one.

[jdl4ever]

I have to disagree.  I understand people's sympathy towards Irv since he was a very tough fighter but I don't believe what he did can be forgiven by simple Tshuvah.  Perhaps if he was killed in prison and died Al Kiddush Hashem, that was G-d punishing him in this world for something he really wanted to repent from doing but could not do and he died a Tzaddik with a true repentance.  But until that is proven, I have to side with Chaim at this point. 

[TorahTruth]

I have to disagree.  I understand people's sympathy towards Irv since he was a very tough fighter but I don't believe what he did can be forgiven by simple Tshuvah.  Perhaps if he was killed in prison and died Al Kiddush Hashem, that was G-d punishing him in this world for something he really wanted to repent from doing but could not do and he died a Tzaddik with a true repentance.  But until that is proven, I have to side with Chaim at this point. 

I dont think it was an easy teshuvah. But the man is dead now, YS"V shouldnt be said about him.  And every1 makes mistakes. But one thing I know is that he loved Jews more than most people, and was driven by Ahavat Yisrael, the love of one Jew to another, and not by hate. And he cared about Jewish problems , not blacks, or immigrant take over of America, or gaining energy dependence. He cared about Jews first, and died because of it.

[Archie]

I have to disagree.  I understand people's sympathy towards Irv since he was a very tough fighter but I don't believe what he did can be forgiven by simple Tshuvah.  Perhaps if he was killed in prison and died Al Kiddush Hashem, that was G-d punishing him in this world for something he really wanted to repent from doing but could not do and he died a Tzaddik with a true repentance.  But until that is proven, I have to side with Chaim at this point. 

I dont think it was an easy teshuvah. But the man is dead now, YS"V shouldnt be said about him.  And every1 makes mistakes. But one thing I know is that he loved Jews more than most people, and was driven by Ahavat Yisrael, the love of one Jew to another, and not by hate. And he cared about Jewish problems , not blacks, or immigrant take over of America, or gaining energy dependence. He cared about Jews first, and died because of it.

Wrong.

Rabbi Kahane personnaly crashed numerous Black rallies and meetings. There are tons of Kahane vs Blacks confrontations that were documented in the 70's and 80's.

You obviously know very little about the man.





 

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

jdl4ever says that even if Yekutiel defends and gives public honors and awards to informer traitors like Irv Rubin, it doesn't matter as long as he trains a couple of dogs.

And jdl4ever says that if not for Yekutiel, Israel will surrender Judea and Samaria to the Arabs. Yekutiel prevents the Israeli surrender of Judea and Samaria?! And you keep saying that WE are mentally unbalanced? Tell Jews who live in Judea and Samaria that Yekutiel is preventing the surrender of their land, and I guarantee that they will consider YOU to be mentally unbalanced.

Notice how jdl4ever doesn't say that JTF should be supported and how it is forbidden to attack JTF even though JTF funds the hilltop communities. Even though JTF gives money on a regular basis to families of Jewish prisoners. Even though JTF is reaching tens of thousands of young Israeli Jews every month with the Kahanist message in our Hebrew videos. Even though JTF has a Hebrew forum with over 1100 young Israeli members, most of whom are secular. Even though JTF is also reaching many thousands with our English videos and our English forum and our QPTV programs. Even though JTF is launching Jews Against Obama, just as Rabbi Kahane launched Jews Against Jackson. Despite of all this, jdl4ever has no problem with attacking JTF and attacking me personally, calling me insane and bringing up a very sensitive issue in my personal life to try to publicly shame me.

But if we tell the TRUTH about Yekutiel, that's not allowed because he's training a couple of dogs.

[Ambiorix]

Wrong.

Rabbi Kahane personnaly crashed numerous Black rallies and meetings. They are tons of Kahane vs Blacks confrontations that were documented in the 70's and 80's.

You obviously know very little about the man.

HE IS A HERO!!!!!

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

Rabbi Kahane would turn over in his grave if he thought that Yekutiel and his four supporters were now the representatives of the Kahanist movement.

On the other hand, I have no doubt that Rabbi Kahane is smiling in heaven as he sees what JTF is doing.

[jdl4ever]

Actually Chaim, I never said what you claim I did.  I never said Yekutiel is preventing the surrender of Judea and Samaria, I simply said he had a Hilltop and prevented that Hilltop from being surrendered to the Arabs which is still a great Mitzvah.  I have indeed complemented your Israeli program as well for spreading the Kahanist message.  I criticize you for simply giving money to organizations and doing audio programs and internet ideas but never in fact go out and do things physically in the past 10 years like the Rav taught; Yekutiel talks little and does a lot.  He is physically doing things on the ground in Israel, something you are not and can not do so I am taken aback when you think that you are somehow better than he is, he is much better than you are to be quite honest since actions speak louder than words.  The incident with your personal life you brought up yourself publicly on an ASK JTF program and stated that you wouldn't mind if people decided to leave the movement because of this event.  I wasn't the one who made it public, you did.  I simply no longer support JTF since I feel it does not abide by the Torah since Loshon Harah in public and causing others to say Loshon Harah are two great Jewish sins that any Jewish leader can not succumb to.   Also I have other differences with JTF which frankly none of you care about so I'll keep it to myself. 

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

In addition to being a Jewish hero, Chaim is a very effective manager. All honor and respect to other Jewish heroes, but at times like this we need a good manager.

I am sorry, I was new to the kahanist movement just a couple of years ago, but it was obvious to me who can lead people and who can help in leading. Obviously, a leader equal to Rav we will have to wait for yet a long time, but Chaim is significant enough to make a large-scale difference.

Personalities are important, but there is nothing hollier than the cause, and whoever brings it about is the one who deserves to lead.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I like Yekutiel.  I think he has done some very great work for the Jewish people and what good he has done should be commended.  I think that what jdl4ever needs to realize is that the reason people are getting contentious is because of numnuts on their forum who have trashed Chaim and made a mockery of Kahanism with their forum, which is practically empty and often not moderated.  Why do they have the pressing need to instill doubts about Chaim's reliability or his honesty?  Why do they have the pressing need to assert that Chaim wasn't as close to the Rav as he actually was, or why does Yekutiel have to insist that he never heard about Chaim?  Who cares what Yekutiel heard about?  We all can see from referenced material and Chaim's own words that he was a great leader and that Rabbi Kahane appointed him the head of several huge operations including national chairman of JDL at one point.  You don't get appointed national chairman of JDL by accident.  Look at all the heroic work Chaim has done.  And all those who have backed him like Noam Federman and Baruch Marzel.  The people who actually work with Chaim have never slandered him like this or seeded doubts about JTF.

The problem jdl4ever is that when you insist upon instilling doubts about Chaim, YOU ARE DETRACTING FROM THE COMMON (it SHOULD be common) GOAL, and you are needlessly detracting from JTF movement.  You make ordinary guys like me have doubts about who I can trust or whether I should donate, etc.  When there shouldn't be any doubts, and when the evidence blow those doubts out of the water.  So why do you insist on detracting from the JTF movement?  To call attention to your own leader Yekutiel?  And you call JTF members cultists?  Get real man.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

For the record, I gave this creature almost 14 hours to respond. That's enough. Now he's banned.

[Wayne Jude]

Good!

[DownwithIslam]

For the record, I gave this creature almost 14 hours to respond. That's enough. Now he's banned.

Good move Chaim. I agree 100 percent in this banning. Doom777 has been pimped out by guzzy to cause a disturbance here and I think that he should of been banned immediately upon his defense of that ganiv irving rubin yimach shmo. Their is no need to have drek like this on this great forum.