Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Breakdown of the Halakhic System - Two Earth-Shattering Shiurim - Exclusive
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:38:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:33:53 PM ---The arizal claimed to have been taught by heavenly teachers, that's how he compiled such a list in shir hagilgulim.
You are not. So you can't justify adding hagar and keturah to the list.
And you certainly can't then claim that rashi was saying this. You can't even claim that the arizal was saying this.
--- End quote ---
I'm simply giving you one possible explanation so you can see how seemingly contradictary opinons can both be valid upon further reflection.
There are many other possible explanations. I've given you one.
I don't know why you assume the Arizal's list is exhaustive, and I'm not sure why you're so sure they're not even in the list: have you learned the entire sefer?
--- End quote ---
you are playing games here.
You are the one that is claiming they have reincarnated missions. The arizal has a list there.
And you clearly don't care if it is in his list or not!
If you are basing yourself on him having a list then the burden is on you to show it. But clearly you are not. and cleraly you don't care if it is listed or not.
So why ask me if it is in the list. I doubt it is. But you would maintain your opinion is correct even if it's not in the list.
You have to explain how you can create your own ideas like that, add people to the arizal's list. The arizal's claim to authority was a heavenly teacher. That is why his new stuff was accepted.
Even your chabad theology, which ascribes ruach hakodesh like powers to rebbes, does not ascribe it to you.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:41:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:38:53 PM ---
Rashi was not writing poetry!!!!!
how many other ridiculous things could you read into any of rashi's commentary, with that absurd idea.
How about the RAMBAM in mishneh torah. My bet is that you will not say "I deny that the RAMBAM wrote poetry" or "I deny that any of the RAMBAM's own words are poetic". You probably Believe that hte wrote poetry in the mishneh torah, and that his own words were poetic.
--- End quote ---
G-d forbid. The Torah is much deeper than poetry and has many more layers of meaning than any poetry could ever dream of having. But maybe if you practice on poetry be able to see how one thing can have more than one explanation and then you'll be ready for the big time.
--- End quote ---
you are mixing everything up. I am not talking about the Torah having many layers.
I am talking about A rabbi's words. Any rabbi. Do you think every rabbi . rashi for example, or RAMBAM, or RAMBAN, wrote his words to allow for people to treat them as poetic and read in whatever the heck they liked? And pretend that it's what the rabbi intended?
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:44:27 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:38:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:33:53 PM ---The arizal claimed to have been taught by heavenly teachers, that's how he compiled such a list in shir hagilgulim.
You are not. So you can't justify adding hagar and keturah to the list.
And you certainly can't then claim that rashi was saying this. You can't even claim that the arizal was saying this.
--- End quote ---
I'm simply giving you one possible explanation so you can see how seemingly contradictary opinons can both be valid upon further reflection.
There are many other possible explanations. I've given you one.
I don't know why you assume the Arizal's list is exhaustive, and I'm not sure why you're so sure they're not even in the list: have you learned the entire sefer?
--- End quote ---
you are playing games here.
You are the one that is claiming they have reincarnated missions. The arizal has a list there.
And you clearly don't care if it is in his list or not!
If you are basing yourself on him having a list then the burden is on you to show it. But clearly you are not. and cleraly you don't care if it is listed or not.
So why ask me if it is in the list. I doubt it is. But you would maintain your opinion is correct even if it's not in the list.
You have to explain how you can create your own ideas like that, add people to the arizal's list. The arizal's claim to authority was a heavenly teacher. That is why his new stuff was accepted.
Even your chabad theology, which ascribes ruach hakodesh like powers to rebbes, does not ascribe it to you.
--- End quote ---
You misundersand. I'm not basing myself on that list at all. I'm just saying the same way Pinchas could be called Eliyahu so too Hagar can be called Keturah becacuse she was acting like her. I've proven it's a way that the sages talk sometimes.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:48:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:44:27 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:38:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:33:53 PM ---The arizal claimed to have been taught by heavenly teachers, that's how he compiled such a list in shir hagilgulim.
You are not. So you can't justify adding hagar and keturah to the list.
And you certainly can't then claim that rashi was saying this. You can't even claim that the arizal was saying this.
--- End quote ---
I'm simply giving you one possible explanation so you can see how seemingly contradictary opinons can both be valid upon further reflection.
There are many other possible explanations. I've given you one.
I don't know why you assume the Arizal's list is exhaustive, and I'm not sure why you're so sure they're not even in the list: have you learned the entire sefer?
--- End quote ---
you are playing games here.
You are the one that is claiming they have reincarnated missions. The arizal has a list there.
And you clearly don't care if it is in his list or not!
If you are basing yourself on him having a list then the burden is on you to show it. But clearly you are not. and cleraly you don't care if it is listed or not.
So why ask me if it is in the list. I doubt it is. But you would maintain your opinion is correct even if it's not in the list.
You have to explain how you can create your own ideas like that, add people to the arizal's list. The arizal's claim to authority was a heavenly teacher. That is why his new stuff was accepted.
Even your chabad theology, which ascribes ruach hakodesh like powers to rebbes, does not ascribe it to you.
--- End quote ---
You misundersand. I'm not basing myself on that list at all. I'm just saying the same way Pinchas could be called Eliyahu so too Hagar can be called Keturah becacuse she was acting like her. I've proven it's a way that the sages talk sometimes.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
--- End quote ---
I don't need ruach hakodesh to say this. I'm just presenting what is a logical possiblity. You are free to accept or reject it but you can no longer come and tell me that the views are absolutely irreconcilable and one must be invalid.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:48:13 PM ---
You misundersand. I'm not basing myself on that list at all. I'm just saying the same way Pinchas could be called Eliyahu so too Hagar can be called Keturah becacuse she was acting like her. I've proven it's a way that the sages talk sometimes.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
--- End quote ---
very easy to understand, but one doesn't accept any idea that one can understand.
your ideas are not acceptable, because it's all made up to allow you to believe some nonsense that the rabbis never disagreed.
So what's your proof that sages refer to A with the name of B, when they act the same.
Anything other than the case of the arizal's list? In his list, A is referred to as B, because it's a reincarnation (of mission you say, ok). That's a kabbalistic thing, reincarnation of mission. Not a logical rule that if 2 people act the same then you can refer to A as B.
You just make things up here. Your mind is all over the place, like a bull in a china shop.
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